Carth
Carth
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- Carth
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Survivors: Brings 3+ dead hards, 2+ resiliences, toolboxes, medkits, CoH
"You're supposed to end the game with 5 hooks spread evenly around 5 minutes! You can't play efficiently but we can!"
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OOO nerf disagrees with you
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
Up The Ante wouldnt be a bad perk if they gave more usage to Luck. What if it gave a chance for a Good Skill Check to count as a Great Skill Check, or increased item rarity from Chests? Just stuff that have niche application but not entirely useless, I mean people still use Plunderer's Instinct and Ace In The Hole, it could find it's way in there, or maybe even find it's way into a Stakeout and Fast Track build.
Chests sure, anything RNG should be kept far away from the main objective timers I would argue. Greats being an extra 1% and multiple survivors getting RNG procs could lead to extremely silly scenarios.
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DS needs a nerf in EGC. The reward for a killer not tunneling is to get punished with free escapes in EGC which is dumb. That said it should be changed into a more reliable anti tunnel perk and get 2 uses(prior to EGC activating).
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@Cyanide2817 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3003594#Comment_3003594
While they can report dead zones and pallet drops, you can still gain control of the chase and push them into dead zones, especially if the dead zone is in your 3 gen.
Except you can't?
"Dude, you're heading into a dead zone turn around"
*eats an M1 but zooms to an area of the map with pallets/resources/better chains/main building*
There is absolutely nothing a killer can do to stop a survivor from choosing to run in any direction of their choosing unless thhey have an instadown power, exposed on the survivor, or the survivor is already injured.
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@Cyanide2817 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3001455#Comment_3001455
Theres nothing wrong about camping or tunneling, they're both fair tactics to use. But you can always switch up a playstyle since when chasing a survivor they're bound to report how you play to the rest so when you get into another chase you can switch your playstyle up to keep them on their toes. You can also try to make them 3 gen themselves. They'll play altruistic so you can camp a generator they are attracted to. You could always slug them and use the slugged one as bait for the team. The list goes on on the things you can do, just be creative.
The problem with this is a game is over in 5 minutes vs a good swf. That's not a lot of time to do much of anything when chases take 30 seconds+ easily. You propose good ideas but when you only have room to try out like....2 of them it doesn't really matter what you do. Dead hard easily adding 20+ seconds to any chase for anyonne with good map knowledge vs m1 killers, comms to call out pallet useage + deadzones + killer location, etc.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
Since when have we started to trust dbd stats? are they only worth taking account of when they push ur argument?
I am more than open to look at any other statistic/indicator of how well/strong a killer is performing but because BHVR does not release that info we have no tracking outside of this/third party sites. I am curious how you think we should determine if a killer is too strong if you don't want to look at stats(Ideally these should be bracketed by MMR in my opinion so we could see what killers overperform at what skill levels & also what killers are weak at what skill levels)
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3003561#Comment_3003561
Honestly if they are slamming gens that fast in every game u play. that's a you problem buddy?
also trickster eats bt and deadhead so I have no problem against those in the majority of cases
also not running meta does not make you low skill, if anything it makes you higher skill if you can make it work.
Ah yes, the secret god of low tier killers. If only the stats/other people could play like you we would all see the hidden potential of *checks stats*
a 4.72% pick rate killer with a 49.94 percent kill rate across all MMRs killer.
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"Noooo you HAVE to let me DH for distance, DS you, and we 4 man escape 5 mins into the game with 5 total hooks *cues up clicking macro*!"
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3003558#Comment_3003558
Why would you assume the team is low skill just because they lose to a trickster.
Sorry I don't mean low skill by losing to a trickster. I mean low skill by not running meta perks/not making chases last a minimum of 40+ seconds and not slamming out the gens in <5 mins vs a 110 killer with no map mobility.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3003551#Comment_3003551
Do you really think ur going against a 4man-com-comp-swf each game?
the majority of my games i get 3 kills i think that is perfectly reasonable.
So we assume a trickster running this addon will surely know how to make use of it and destroy people.
But the survivor team we assume they are low skill/bad? Seems inconsistent.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3003535#Comment_3003535
You think just because the killer I main is not S tier calling for nerfs on unhealthy aspects is bad?
Yes, I do. When kill rates have universally been dropping to 50% across the board in the last year(Hello BHVR, please bracket your stats by MMR) I think asking for nerfs for a non S tier killer is terrible. We have 2 competent killers who can reasonably deal with a 4 man swf running 4X DH, 1x COH, 1 x leader, 1x we'll make it, 2x BT(There's still 7 more free perks for the survivor team). Or do you think Trickster with iri photo can handle this team?
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Yes a low tier killer main begging for multiple killer nerfs. 100% makes sense. Care to share your stats showing your win/kill rates with these OP addons as well as total # of games played?
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@InvadeGames said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3000189#Comment_3000189
assuming they even know you have it.
They will instantly know you have it when a boon breaks and ~2 seconds later anyone on a gen gets a red progress bar and can tell they are repairing slower. At that point it takes 2 seconds to call out on coms "guys he has pentimento" OR use your brain in solo queue to put two and two together. There are tons of clues and hints that give this plan away entirely and if survivors fail for it they either don't know/aren't aware of how the perks function or they are dumb/don't care.
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It's kind of a trap, you should (against good survivors) only get 1 stack of pentimento off ever and then they will cleanse your totem and then never boon/cleanse anything else. If you bring plaything to try and lean into it even more they should just take the obliviousness and not cleanse. Being oblivious is 100% worth the killer dedicating 75% of their loadout to literally nothing else(no gen regression, no info, no type of slowdown, or chase help). This leaves killer a single perk slot which feels really awful.
That said, most survivors probably won't play that smart and will happily keep cleansing your totems/booning so you can get pentimento value. but against good players it is a massive trap imo.
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100% ok during trial
busted in EGC when playing against survivors with a brain and exhaustion perks
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@SimplyPixelated06 said:
No other perk deactivates at end game. Why should survivors have one of their few anti-tunnel perks with this feature? I don't see any survivors complaining a perk should deactivate at endgame, but you see killers complaining bt and ds should deactivate. When I go against ds, its fine. When I use ds its fine. It's at its fairest state rn, it does not need another nerf.
NoED is one of the most complained about perks, an exclusively end game perk that can be taken out of the game before it ever activates as well as post-activation.
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@HaunterofShadows said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2996494#Comment_2996494
That and the username I would be fine with. Or hiding all usernames until after the match is over.
Hiding usernames would be best imo, seeing the killers name means if you see the guy pop up if he regularly plays a killer you already know who you will be facing.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2996694#Comment_2996694
Because if we nerf DS with this way, killers will target weakest survivor. And weakest survivor is ofc unhooked one. This is still tunnelling and it does not looks healthy change for me.
And i don't know why people are targeting only DS. BT have same effect. If you hooked them near to gates, they will escape with BT too.
To be clear I think most people are not advocating for a universal nerf. I would be 100% fine with DS procing each unhook if it meant during EGC it was off/escaping essentially for free when there are 2-3+ survivors present in EGC. Also, just as you say there is a hidden reliance on BT in this situation. The real root cause here is BHVR creating such drastically different EGC scenarios. One on hook and 3 alive with no DS, no bts, and let's say nobody is running an exhaust perk is massively different from DS on hook + BT present on at least 2 survivors + Dead hard on everyone.
I would hope these kinds of scenarios are minimized/altered in the "big rework", but I think using perks as band aids has led to this weird arms race.
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@deKlaw_04 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2996591#Comment_2996591
"everyone mob the hook and bodyblock for each other! It's a standard M1 killer so we can all get away easy"
If every game was a 4 man swf sure. But it isn’t
but It literally can be done via pointing and requires the brain power of a squirrel to do this, If M1 killer & no noed & have BT = everyone heal + 99 gates + rush to hook. I sincerely doubt I am going up against 4 man swfs all the time and this is something I regularly see if at least 3 survivors are alive come EGC, If your teammates don't/can't realize that then I am sorry but this is an extremely easy tactic to do that does not require comms and should 100% be a balance point.
Or the alternative is just tunnel people out/do not spread hooks evenly so it never comes to this point but most survivors tend to hate that
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2996529#Comment_2996529
People arent only complaining about that, theyre complaining about everything, that's what they do on these forums.
Killers shouldnt get a free kill from camping just because its end game.
Getting a free kill or survivors should play better and plan better vs "everyone mob the hook and bodyblock for each other! It's a standard M1 killer so we can all get away easy"
Or PLEASE tell me how you wouldd secure a kill as trapper vs a 4 man SWF and it is EGC, you have played "fair" and everyone is on death hook, there have been zero DS procs and zero BT procs the entire trial, both gate are 99'd and you are standing by the hook. Let's assume the person on hook has DS ready to go.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2996332#Comment_2996332
I literally stated the nerf in the first phrase........
Why 2 seconds? I imagine you specifically picked some number instead of just deactivate on tap so a survivor opening a 99%'d gate will not lose their DS...which is exactly one of the EGC scenarios people are complaining about.
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So everyone could slap on spine chill vs stealth kills?
So Dr would never ever hear a single scream again?
So plagues would never fight vs a medkit or healing perks?
Perk specialization is too high, this would be extremely annoying on top of people dodging top tier killers.
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@KA149108 said:
People say nurse is fair because of her skill ceiling but if people played against a god nurse for 20 straight matches they'd realise how busted the killer is. A killer that can basically ignore pallets and windows so the only counter is hope she messed up her blinks.
Man, this sounds so so familiar but I just can't place my finger on it...OH! I remembered, the entire M1 roster vs survivors who know how to loop with dead hard.
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@Marigoria said:
IMO, ds should deactivate if you're doing the gate for more than 2 seconds, but it also should activate twice during the match, after both hook stages so it actually is an anti tunnel perk.
Soo...no nerf at all and a massive buff for DS is your idea?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2993172#Comment_2993172
Can you explain why you think this?
He has map mobility, stealth and anti-loop.
In my mind this places him above most killers.
His mobility still has travel time, you do not insta port from corner A to corner B.
His stealth is given away(in typhical BHVR fashion) in other ways(loud noises, steps, audio screams, etc). There is not a single true stealth killer in this game that does not have some type of cue to let you know they are using their stealth ability.
His anti-loop only works on people who are not familiar with how it works/in deadzones. Good survivors will see him channeling and leave the loop and go to the next. He cannot do anything in this scenario.
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@Witchubtet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2996116#Comment_2996116
I feel like that should be higher. How many seconds does it take for our friendly entity to take a Survivor? From start to finish. Including the mash button time.
You mean hook states? That is 120 seconds, 60 seconds in phase 1, 60 seconds in phase 2. The only way to impact this is either by A. Failing skill checks in phase 2 or B. someone brings camaraderie which would extend the struggle phase by 34 seconds.
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@Witchubtet said:
Does anyone actually know how long it takes one Survivor to do a Gen? A honest question because I have no clue. I always thought it was 60-90 seconds
It takes 80 seconds to complete a gen solo.
Specifically all of DBDS systems work on a system where you need to accumulate a total # of charges before the action is completed. For Gen repair that is 80 charges and a survivor base repairs at 1.0 Charge/Second.
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@LaUry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2994643#Comment_2994643
jeez i just came back to the game and ppl have waaay less brain.. what specific situations you talk about? you guys act like survivors only job is to open the gates.. but not every survivor gonna genrush through 5 gens they slack around opening chests getting attention etc.. im tired of forums you guys always whine for something when there is counterplay for EVERYTHING.. use just a little bit of brain..
The game should not be balanced around survivors rummaging(an entirely 100% optional task) and speaking anecdotally, no survivors worth their salt will rummage unless its for a challenge/they are destroying the killer so hard they have the free time and safety to do so
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@LaUry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2995396#Comment_2995396
you cant read? i say that you SHOULDN'T WIN in the last minute of the game only.. if survivors reached the endgame you fcked up early and mid game.. you still have endgame perks but if 4 survivor is still alive when gates are opening then you lost the game simple as that
Here's my problem with this line of logic. If a killer tunnels someone out early we get hit with complaints of "Tunneling!! Tunneling!!" and BHVR has even acknowledged they need to fix it. If however, a killer plays "fair" and gets to EGC and get's blocked by a wall of second chance perks we get told "You're bad because 4 survivor made it to EGC, of course everyone will get out!". Survivors can't have it both ways, "Dont tunnel!! Also you should have 8 hooks on everyone by the time 5 minutes rolls around or you're bad"
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Nothing wrong with in a vaccum, however when you consider that most survivor players hate tunneling and have been asking BHVR for solutions you very quickly run into problems. As an experiment I challenge you to play where you spread hook states evenly, this means you cannot kill a survivor until ALL survivor are on death hook. I promise you you will very quickly discover two things, DS/BT/Body block world effectively defangs the killer entirely during EGC, the only 'counter' to the above is to limit the total # of survivors in play which loops us back around to "How should killers and survivors expect the game to play throughout the trial?" Should survivors expect to get eliminated out of the game quickly? Should hook states be more of a team wide resource? Does "fairness" even matter? I would argue it does based on how many complaints there are on tunneling but I 100% guarantee you if BHVR fixes that aspect of the game but does not touch EGC you will see a huge amount of complaints around DS + BT + Bodyblocking during EGC.
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@gendoss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2994710#Comment_2994710
Oh ok. I just won't use one of the only defenses against a killer that the entire game was designed around. Got it.
O-o-or and this might be crazy, you go to the next loop adjacent to you and make use of that and continue to ping pong back and forth between chained loops if he insists on using his remnant. If he chooses to finally stop wasting his time he turns into a standard powerless 115% killer you can loop like usual at a pallet.
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It would be broken, killer movespeeds would universally need to be slowed down to compensate for this and would exacerbate the hold 'w' problem even more as every killer would do exactly what you described and pre-break the strongest pallets as they traversed the map.
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Survivors back in the day "GET MORIS OUT OF HERE! UNFAIR UNFAIR"
Survivors now : "can my 4 man swf pwease escape after one of us dies, pwease"
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@HuskyTwitter said:
With the next patch, a whole bunch of perks are getting reworked with some base game changes.
What I want to see:
-Base gen regression increased or any means of improved gen defense.
-Borrowed Time base or any means of anti-tunneling/camping
-Dead Hard to be locked away in a deep dark basement with the key thrown away never to be seen again by mortal eyes. A withering shell of a perk that will never see the light of day for as long as this Earth turns. It's love given to it by every survivor it came across, torn apart and ripped from it's very being, only to cover the walls of it's imprisonment. A reminder of pain and agony, hate and disgust, torture and torment. Screams for its revival will not be heard as a deafening silence will be placed on this perk once and for all.
But in all seriousness, I have PTSD from this perk, I never want to see it again.
BT should be base with the caveat that there is no collision. EGC second perk hell should go (BT body blocks/DS/unbreakable). Where a killer who plays "fair" is punished immensely by these perks. It of course should come with massive changes to hook camping and tunneling as well at the same time though.
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Its kind of odd in that it maximizes survivor efficiency automatically. If that logic didn't exist survivors would either need to choose
A. Lock all lockers to pre-empt dredge getting a fast escape, but the drawback is dredge could break all locks and only get the longer duration of 1 lock in the group. That said he would still need to sit through the attack animation for each busted lock
B. Try to just lock one and hope the dredge goes into that one, you can then lock the others in the same fashion to maximize the lock time for any given group
BHVR tweaked it such that the game auto maximizes and completely throws the choice away, which I feel is kind of odd/unfortunate. It seems like a super late tweak to his logic given one of his brown addons even marks locked lockers for the gloaming which seems entirely pointless if the game auto forces you into the locked one of the group.
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It combos very well with his kit, that said
Small game
Detectives hunch
Counterforce
and for everyone saying solo q is impossible to deal with totems due to comms: Map + bead
if you have a map + bead and detectives hunch if you spawn on a gen and move towards the center of the map during the proc it is extremely normal to see 2-3/5 totems already marked. At this point you can regularly spam your map for short bursts to give your team the info/start dealing with the totems on your own or doing whatever you want.
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@LaUry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2994610#Comment_2994610
you have lot of time to work with.. dont try to win only in the last minute of the game..
Option one : Spread hooks evenly and get DS'd at EGC
"Why didn't you get someone out earlier?? Bad killer"
Option two: Get someone out of the game fast to take care of any DS and help slow down gen progress
"Dude!! Tunneler!!"
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I'm really curious to hear what you think is the last good killer design then OP? Sadako?
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Your ideas would totally not work without a huge amount of refactoring. Favoring active abilities over passives is a totally fine view to have but would absolutely not work in DBD without restarting from scratch. The values you propose and scenarios they would make could win matches entirely on their own if they were just slapped in. Additionally nobody likes "nuke" behavior which is what you ddescribe. Sprint dashing at 500% speed away from a killer is sure satisfying is a survivor but there's no countering it as killer. Simmilarly having some active dash multi hit type move where you instantly go down as a survivor with no input from your side does not sound fun. I am absolutely not a fan of "if everything is broken, nothing is"
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@versacefeng said:
Then you'd just have everyone using sprint burst all week. And honestly, sprint burst is way more tedious to play against than dead hard.
I still will never understand this "dude sprint burst is secretly the best exhaustion perk in the game, all survivors are just hive mind(literally 80% usage at high MMR according to BHVR stats) and don't run it because.......". This would be like me adamantly insisting call of brine is the best kicking perk in the game and that nerfing pop would just bring call of brine useage up and it's sooooo much better than pop. It's not. Nor is sprint burst universally better than dead hard.
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And yet killer kill rates have been dropping universally to ~50% since BHVR released stats, some killers were around 70% a few years back. The fact that you keep saying hit validation is not a buff is strange. It's a design choice that strengthens survivors, if generators get changed to take greater than 80 seconds is that not a buff to killers?
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It has tons of factors.
How many pallets/breakable wallshave been used already
How many tiles are chained together via map RNG
What is the killer and killer power?
What exhaustion perk is the survivor running?
Is it a map with an extremely strong main building layout?
Does the killer have Coup de grace(this one is really rare and niche but technically can impact chase time in a very large way even if it is largely outside the killers control)?
I would say all of the above factor into the answer to your question and many of these are extremely out of the hands of both the survivor and killer in question. There's never going to be a hard 'you could have run any killer on this map for x seconds' because each time it is a case by case basis. However to answer your question of will a survivor eventually go down? Yes. A killer moves faster than a survivor, the entity blocker is a thing for windows, and bloodlust is a thing. A survivor, no matter how good, will eventually go down. But this game isn't chase sim, it's do the gens and get out, you don't need to loop a kiiller for eternity to win and you have 2 health states, exhaustion perks, and 3 hook states until you are kicked out of the game. There is no need for a survivor to be able to 'win' a chase and never go down.
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@socalfusions said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2990101#Comment_2990101
No doubt but he's still extremely strong when utilized fully even against SWF's, against solo Q it's completely lopsided and the real issue is that solo Q makes up the vast majority of the player base so Blight is just shitting on your casual player at all times.
Please provide proof your "solo queue" is the majority of matches. two groups of two != 'solo queue'
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@KillerKiryu47 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2990018#Comment_2990018
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2990017#Comment_2990017
I think Sadako's seemingly endless lunge is what pissed me off about her. I just had a nice match against one who actually played well and didn't lunge spam like a spastic Dredge I met earlier today. So perhaps I was too harsh and she is actually just fine. My thoughts are not changed about others though.
(That was the only match I have escaped within the last 2 days... and only because I noped out after the last gen finished.)
I like to think I'm a moderate skill survivor player considering I have many cases of being able to run killers around the map for literal minutes straight. Sometimes I potato out, other times I question the killer's attempts, and then sometimes I wonder why it's been 3 minutes and nobody can pop a gen when I'm being chased.
Are we really at this point, claiming Sadako is OP? She has no 'endless lunge' or in fact any modifier to her lunge except a laughable 1.5 second speed boost when she gets out of a TV. TVs that the survivors can turn off and that she herself turns off when teleporting to them. Are you really claiming that Sadako's can get regular hits and value out of her tp with massive tells + counters?
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@Shooby said:
BHVR's reasoning for nerfing Pyramid Head's Rites of Judgement fake into M1 by giving it a cooldown was because they said it was a lose-lose situation for survivors, and they were spot on. Currently, Dredge is the same way. He suffers no downsides for using his power, whatsoever. Giving him hindered movement speed by teleporting back to his husk should be the first change to his kit, and should be implemented in the Mid-Chapter patch.
"No downside"
"Moves at 3.68 M/S when channeling"
Sorry, not every killer needs to come with legion/nurse levels of counters on top of counters on top of self stuns.
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There is a killer who behaves almost exactly like dredge without anti-loop and her name is onryu. Nobody likes playing as her because she is quite possibly the weakest killer in the game, if you disagree with that then I imagine you would at least agree she is bottom of the barrel tier.
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@egg_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2988195#Comment_2988195
Because the chance is low anyway. Most of the times, the survivor that goes for the unhook knows it's going to be a trade anyway, unless the killer ######### up badly. You said non rare, but it is rare. Why should the killer feel that they're entitled to one kill no matter what? If they mess up the trade and both survivors escape, that's on the killer
In a swf vs an m1 killer with at least 3 survivors alive at EGC just 1 BT is easily enough to save + get to the gates. Between body blocking + exhaustion perks you are unlikely to down anyone. 2 is a bit riskier but basically if you manage to force the killer to either hit the BT survivor in 13 seconds or bodyblock enough to create a delta to where DH + the distance gained by the bodyblock gets you to the gates you escape. The killer will only be able to target at most 1 person at this time so the other n surviivors can easily get in the way, if the killer ttries to shift his focus even on the largest maps you will not have enough time to M1 a survivor and hit them twice assuming everyone is holding w to the nearest 99'd gate.
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It's another episode of "insanely strong main building/you lose if you chase into it early/mid and meh/ok rest of the map!"
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@Pepsidot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2988016#Comment_2988016
Obviously biased as a survivor main here but I hear this solution said a lot and although yes it solves an issue - but it would also buff facecamping/camping in general and would heavily discourage endgame plays.
Because right now with the current BT there's a small window of opportunity if you're the 2nd last survivor. If you win the unhook mindgame after baiting out a hit you can try and make a play with BT.
I would argue this should be solved with a base game change/not a perk. However, I do have to ask why should the survivor team have a 'chance' to save that is pretty normalized when they are at such a heavy disadvantage. Or in other words "Why should the survivors have a non-rare chance to save and both get out when its 2v1 and 1 is on hook in EGC"