Carth
Carth
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@Bupkiss said:
The four on one dynamic is always going to create flaws in any system they come up with. If you get teamed with 3 other decent players you have a chance. But what is worse than being responsible for one idiot in your life? Being saddled with two or three. Same is true for DBD, having more team mates sometimes is a disadvantage when they either actively or passively bring the team down. As a solo survivor main it is so hard to have a decent game when they nerf all the perks which allowed you to compensate for weak team play.
This is how every competitive multiplayer game works. You don't get massive damage reduction and damage buffs if your teammates are bad in MOBAS, your guns don't suddenly become stronger if your teammates are bad in shooters. In RTS you don't get unlimited resources and instant build time if your team-mate is doing nothing to help. The idea that solo queue players are a team but should be able to be individually strong enough to function if teammates are bad will never ever work balance wise because as you say, what happens when 4 decent players get together?.
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Next time you make a fake "killer main" forum account you might want to separate it from crying about survivor before you start making stories up.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3077603#Comment_3077603
I agree with this statement, as I Survivor I always ran SB instead of DH because I like consistecy and while DH had potential for game winning games what if you faced a instadown Killer? what if when the Killer was about to catch up you were in the middle of nowhere? SB always worked the same and gave the same value, as Killer I play Myers, Deathslinger and Jigsaw, both Myers and Deathslinger didnt really care that much about DH (Myers could bypass it with EW3 or get a super fast first hit which shortens chases anyway and Deathslinger was the best DH baiter in the game) so the perk was never really a massive problem for me nor handheld me in the slightest.
With this in mind the most gamebreaking buff Killers got is the combination of 2 SBFL stacks and a sprint reduction after hit, you barely win any distance after any hit and this is not related to DH in any way, if you are caught on a deadzone ("wHy ArE yOU In a dEAdzOne? l0l" because sometimes gens spawn there or you have to traverse one to reach a zone with gens) you wont make it to a safe tile before the Killer is already on top of you.
The pallet breaking buff is ok, Im fine with it, the 2,5% insta regression is also ok IF it was paired with a real nerf to slowdown or regression and they didnt increase gen timers by 10, the wall breaking buff isnt enough, walls still take too much to break and they are a problem in certain maps that have too many, the 10 seconds per gen is not ok, mainly because pressing M1 is not something people really like to do, they should have gone another path for stalling buffs and the decreased CD on hit and sprint is too much.
"IF it was paired with a real nerf to slowdown or regression", what do you call ruin now? or pop? or DMS + PR? Additionally complaining about the 2.5% insta regression = .025 * 90 = 2.25 seconds. You shave off 2.25 seconds off the gen but wait you have to sacrifice 1.8 seconds to do the kicking animation, so the killer only gets 2.25 - 1.8 = .45 seconds back for their investment
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@Lecruidant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3076349#Comment_3076349
I never said DH for distance should still be a thing. Never once did I say that. I said it should probably be on a 1 second not 0.5 second. Are you feeling okay? Also stop basing your argument on SWF. I can guarantee you majority of your matches are not SWF. It's just an easy fall back excuse when you're getting run on.
1 second DH still allowed DH for distance to windows
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@Lecruidant said:
At first I didn't think that most of the changes would be a big deal. I never used DH to begin with (I'm a Spurt Burst kind of gamer for that boost to get an unhook quick or to help me setup for a chase) and all the other perk changes didn't really effect me either. My setup was generally SB/BT/WGLF (I like to farm BP okay) and I filled in the last spot with something like Distortion or something (Since most killers like Lethal). SO all those changes weren't too bad. But let me tell you. The 10 seconds alone on a Gen is brutal. You wouldn't think so if all you play is Killer. But as somebody who constantly is playing Solo Surv (I haven't played Killer a lot lately because of rolling over everybody to get the prestige stuff and shared perks, therefore losing all my items and what not) it DEFINITELY is felt. Few reasons for this too.
Survivors needed a perk nerf. DH was used all the time. I get that. Maybe it should have stayed at 1 second instead of 0.5? Idk. I'm not a Dead Hard-ologist. But the wrong thing to do was make Gens take longer. If this was a balance thing for SWF. I mean, I guess? But BHVR hasn't really sat down to figure that issue out. That's clear. They wanted this slow down as far as gens went, which is fine if you just do SLOW DOWN perks on the killer side. But coupling that with adding on time to gens has been brutal. One or the other would have been fine. But we'll go into more detail below on the killer side why it's been so rough.
HOT TAKE. Killer didn't need to be thrown into high octane overdrive. And, Come on. EVERYTHING that was done to killer has made things kind of slow to a stop for Survs. Ruin got hit omega hard. Which, is FINE. It was carrying a lot of people before. Myself included there for awhile i'll admit. Used it back when Thrill notified you that somebody was touching your no no bones and would go stop that real quick just to have some free hits. But now the focus has shifted to Brine and Eruption. Most every game. But even without this, you have Thana which even the 2% increase it being felt. Now normally I don't think that's be an issue really. But the 10 second addon to all gens is really making you feel it now. And sometimes Gens taking up to 115 seconds. Who wants to hold M1 that long? The change to letting killer break doors and pallets faster is fine I suppose. Helps keep in the chase longer. But i'm really confused why we let them recover from a hit faster while also minimizing the distance survivors get? A gap was closed already for the hit to occur. Why are we allowing for what feels like "You got hit, now just go ahead and lay down". Even if somebody makes it to a pallet, lets add on the new change that has them getting Bloodlust FASTER. Couple all these changes and in Solo queue, somebody is generally going down before a Gen is even at 20%.
Now it could just be the MMR (I hate this system) but generally that person that goes down kills themselves on hook because why not. Then you're stuck with longer gens, faster killers and recover, and 5 gens left. MMR in itself is a joke currently. You can do 2-3 gens, unhook 3-4 people, get chased and if you don't make it out? You lose MMR. No matter how much you do. You lose MMR. A killer? Can down, camp hook, repeat and they GAIN MMR. The MMR system should work the same as it did prior. Tallying everything you did in the match to help and give or take MMR accordingly. I believe this to be a major contributing factor as to why Solo queue is as painful as it is. Or why some killers on here are saying 4k's are so easy now. Because with all the changes and lack of proper rating system, it's just too much. I shouldn't be fighting against the clock to get out from a killer but also fighting to pick up the slack from all others that should be helping and aren't.
All in all I think too much was done at one time. I think all the killer changes to perks were fine. But I think Basekit stuff for killers should have been a gradual thing IF NEEDED. I think basekit things to survivors were overall fine. However I think that basekit BT should have been slightly more as frankly it might as well not be there in majority of the matches I play since killers are still tunneling against people with OTR and because of the faster recovery and shorter distance being made, they know it's no penalty to hit.
Those are my thoughts. I probably have more but i'm tired and maybe i'll edit more in when I think of it.
Killers were not "throw in into high octane overdrive" it's 10 seconds base along with minimal changes(.3-.5 second changes) + a massive nerf to meta regression perks. You gloss over Dead Hard and say DH for distance should still be a thing and then say ruin getting dumpstered is fine and carried people. Why does DH get a pass but ruin doesn't? As for why distance was nerfed twice over because holding W after getting hit shouldn't buy you 1/4 of gen progress for free assuming you can run in a straight line. A gen at 20% is .2 * 90 = 18 charges. If a survivor cannot last 18 seconds in a chase against an M1 killer something is horribly wrong.
Brine is meta atm for sure, however eruption is straight trash vs swf. "Guy's im about to go down everyone let go of their gen for one second" completely turns it into a terrible old pop.
If you have a survivor killing themselves on hook it is not a real game and should not be considered for game balance purposes.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3075904#Comment_3075904
Here's the problem though. You pretty much have to be AFK on killer to lose right now. And there were players like myself who played a lot of killers and didn't have issues prior to the update. So what's the balance target for killer skill? What does BHVR say about the killer players who didn't need buffs and are now even more oppressive? This is what balancing around low level play looks like.
That's an absolutely great point. BHVR has not said what killers or survivors are expected to be at skillwise for them to determine balance choices, add in an awful experience for new players and it's just a mess of who do you make balance decision for? High MMR survs and killers who are playing super min/maxed? Or do you balance for more casual players/people who don't know how to run tiles/loop/strong perks, etc.
It is definitely not just a survivor problem
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@indieeden7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3075805#Comment_3075805
Or...gens aren't getting done because the devs made gens take longer? And also buffed quite a few regression perks. Shockingly enough, Dead Hard had pretty much nothing to do with gen speed.
In my opinion Dead Hard has a tremendous amount to do with gen speeds. Let's assume every use of dead hard extended chases by 30 seconds and 80% of survivors ran dead hard then the value from the perk is 30 * 3(lets round survivor count down) * 2(dead hard once each chase) = 180 seconds worth of time bought for the survivor team. Now it doesn't directly correlate to gen speeds but that is quite a bit of free time for all of the survivors not in the chase to do anything.
Now with dead hard dead that means survivors aren't getting that 180 seconds of value from it, if other exhaustion perks arent as strong(I dont believe they are) the survivor team has lost a huge buffer of time to work on gens/heal/do whatever while other survivors were in chase. Now I do understand that the math does not back up the reality, which is many times survivors won't be in ideal scenarios to make use of that time, but dead hard was undoubtedly helping other survivors bang out gens.
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@kaneyboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3076063#Comment_3076063
doesn't seem fair to me? over a minute to 25 seconds is a lot!
Alternative take: a perk adding 30+ seconds to base time chases isn't fair.
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@Alcuin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3075831#Comment_3075831
Why do killers need and beg for buffs if they're playing against bad survivors? No Dead Hard, survivors are now bots. That doesn't explain it. Killer is too easy, now. Those are the facts.
Killers aren't and have never complained about bad survivor teams. It is SWF and good survivors at high MMR that people complained about. 4 survivors running dead hard + knowing how to loop = you lost unless you played nurse/blight. They took steps to address that problem(based on stat history kill rates have been dropping across the board and as of the last time they released stats were at roughly ~55%ish for most killers. If that trend has continued we were probably sub 50% since the last time they released stats). Given that they also said kill rates are lower than they'd like I don't think it's that far-fetched to assume kill rates were sub 50%.
Going back to solo queue, how on earth can they make changes to help you when you have a teammate going for 5 totem cleanses in one game for a challenge? Or someone running No Mither? Or someone giving up because they went down first? It is literally throwing the entire game when this happens vs a good killer. These are purposeful actions, however there's also tons of cases where survivors just literally don't know what to do and go down in < 10 seconds from full health to an M1 killer. That should never, ever happen. A bot holding W in a straight line will get more time out of the chase than that. What skill level are survivors expected to be at in terms of balance? It's a question that BHVR has never answered because they don't want to.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3074688#Comment_3074688
As a side note this combo made gens take 142.85 seconds before the update
So 22 seconds or almost a quarter of a gen more.
Double buffing slowdown perks by upping their vallue and increasing the base gen time was just way to much
You can heal to reduce Thanats debuff and you can cleanse pentimento. In fact a survivor should know exactly where pentimento is because a killer cannot make a pentimento totem on his own ever
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They can't balance the game around you getting bad teammates.
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Just like early game collapse
Also if kill rates were in fact sub 50%, buffing solos(which would almost assuredly also buff swf) before giving killer buffs sounds like a terrible idea.
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The changes were not primarily to survivor. They were specifically made to boost falling kill rates. It's understandable it feels painful as a survivor.
That said every single meta gen regression perk was heavily nuked/nerfed into questionable value. Pop taking a handful of seconds off of gens 0-50% is massive And ruin is now a detremint to run. Additionally dms + or is gone. If you liked bt/ds I heavily recommend you give otr a shot.
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@_VTK_ said:
"Killers should be stronger" is the biggest BS about DBD. People play games for fun, and winning=fun. It doesn't matter if you play killer or survivor, no side should have more fun, because it's "more realistic" lol in a fantasy horror game with entity and teleporting killers.
That argument is pure BS, you just want easy wins.
Based on this argument the killer buffs were needed as kill rates were below 50%, right?
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A streamer showcased one game where he almost instantly got pentimento up plus thana on legion on the PTB.
It comes with the idea that everyone is instantly injured and no one can cleanse pentimento
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@SekiSeki said:
Was Prove Thyself buffed? It's at 15% now
Prove thyself wasnt touched, it's been at 15% for awhile now
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at 100% regression it is a joke. You could make it a non hex and still no one would take it, even if it lasted the entire trial. 40 seconds to undo 10 is a joke, also consider it turns off a ton of other regression perks and its value goes down even more.
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I do think it should be the baseline however everyone just has this super handwavy "buff killers!" That I don't think is as simple as they are making it out to be. People are already screaming about legion andd plague with a mere 10 second gen timer increase + thanat buff. What exactly would "buff killers after buffing solos" entail? Because I very much doubt survivor players are willing to trade 20-30 second increased gen time for chat/comm wheel. Additionally many people scream about anti-loop and chase duration so I don't think you can tweak that knob either. So how exactly would you buff killers after you give solos VOIP/comm wheel/etc?
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The biggest solo queue pain points for regression got massive nerfs.
Pop is significantly worse unless the gen is 75%+
Mini pop on kick has extremely questionable value(2.something seconds)
Pain res + DMS is gone
Ruin is gone
Basically every way to nuke a gen and quickly push survivors off of it has been taken out of the game. Base regression was untouched at .25 compared to a survivors rate of 1.0.
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If that was a regular m1 killer she 100% would have made shack and at least been able to do one window vault and possibly chained that to other tiles or at the very least gotten an extra 20+ seconds from her DS
I do agree with your point about the 3 second stun being short but using blight/nurse/spirit to demonstrate how weak stuns are is super unfair to everyone else who can't cover ground rapidly.
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Every killer perk you listed was nerfed in some way in the upcoming patch(minus DMS,but it's synergy with pain resonance is no longer a thing)
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I would say yes in two ways. The super obvious one is locker #s and placements. The second is tile spawns and distances between them. Super tight tile clusters means his remnant is basically a detriment to the dredge vs good survivors.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3067058#Comment_3067058
Like finishing a gen with an active trap on. I've seen it on a few occasion where a survivor does not prioritizes the boxes (largely before the update to normalize the rng). All I'm saying is if there is a combination that leads to survivor on a consistent basis to not have enough time with a pig interrupting them on boxes or the survivor themselves not giving themselves enough time, then it should be looked at and nerfed. Before the 5 box update midwich + timer + longer searches could lead to situations where a survivor who had to misfortune to not find their key in the first 3 searches did not have enough time to search the 4th box with no fault of their own and the pig not interrupting them.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3067055#Comment_3067055
You are just being intentionally obtuse at this point. Pig can interrupt survivors searching boxes. If the pig does not interrupt survivors on boxes then she should not be getting consistent head pops with her power. If there is a combination of addons and/or map that creates a situation where a pig does not need to interrupt survivors on boxes and get kills then it should be looked at.
I'm not done doing this back and forth with you since I'm not going to deal with someone intentional misreading what I'm saying.
If a survivor chooses to do a gen over rushing checking boxes then they should 100% be ok with getting head popped. If pigs traps were so innefectual that you could get a trap on -> have it active -> bang out a gen -> still get trap off 100% of the time.
I'd argue pigs traps literally serve no purpose in that scenario
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3066990#Comment_3066990
I'm saying that the pig shouldn't be able to reliably get head pops without pressuring survivors off of boxes. I don't see the pig needing to down you first being a huge difference to that, because a killer shouldn't be able to consistently get kills after a single down without being an active threat against that survivor. Combination of addons and maps that create situations where survivors cannot reasonable search all the boxes (on a consistent basis) without the pig running any kind of interference is a problem that deserves to dealt with.
Obviously if the survivor greeds or make mistakes on searching boxes, then it's still fair for them to die as they still had the opportunity to search the boxes they needed to, but failed to do so.
Define "survivor greeds". I would argue on any map in the game a survivor can reasonably search 4 boxes if they are not being tunneled off, and if the pig is patrolling boxes + gens she is throwing because that is a huge amount of ground to cover.
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I don't get survivor complaints around this. We hear "Artist, Pyramid Head, Nemesis, Deathslinger, etc. THEY'RE NOT FUN!!!! So we go from anti-loop powers to stall powers and now we hear "NO NO!! Legion, Plague, Pig, Pinhead, NO FUN!!!!". What exactly are survivors expecting? Anti loop is not fun, game delay is not fun? I am not really sure/understanding what they expect a killer power to be.
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Compare it to another info perk premonition
Premonition
* Info
* 30 second cool down
Spine chill
* Info
* No cool down
* Faster action speeds
* Faster vault speeds
* Forces killers to moon/crab walk to gens as the only counter
It is way too strong just like iron will. No cool down perma effect perks should either be extremely weak to balance out the 100% uptime value or not exist
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Nurse calling is actually really solid in my opinion, additionally with the patch buffing distortion to basically be perma-aura hiding with just one info perk(imagine running just BBQ, just Im all ears, just lethal, just darkness revealed). It could help to chew through tokens quickly without requiring a ton of extra work on your end.
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It does not stack, it works as you describe where getting hit early will consume the endurance effect even if given by multiple perks at once.
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Sid Meier's Civilization
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Civ themed chapter
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@Gindaen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061102#Comment_3061102
OTR might end up being a problem and the only time you would be able to tell is once the patch hits live.
Personally, I just can't think of a common situation where someone with OTR sitting around not doing gens in the hope of maybe getting a save will ever be a good thing on average. Maybe once in a while someone somewhere will do something aggravating with it, but it won't be common.
That's a fair point. I agree with you that in the vast majority of matches it will probably never be used in that offensive manner and will instead be defensive to just try to save the survivor from being tunneled
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061116#Comment_3061116
at this point you are nit picking my guy, why dont you blame that one rock at a loop that made you stuck for a second and therefore you couldnt make it to the pallet? Lets make now a rant about map designt because of that. What I am trying to say is I played with this feture myself and played more then enough killer on it and never had the slightest thought DAMN THOSE GREAT SKILL CHECKS. Idk you seem to focus way too much on that.
My problem is it was a nerf out of left field, there were no complaints about wiggle times and the devs randomly bolted on a great skill check and bonus time saving for no reason except to do it. the complains were "nobody likes button mashing, please make wiggling a skill check". Not "Please implement a buff via great skill checks onto wiggling".
Following that logic, why don't we just increase killer move speed by .2 M/S? It's so small nobody will notice, or we put back the extra 1% bonus progress back onto great skill checks for gens? It's super minor so why not? I don't think doing something just for the sake of doing it is a good idea. Which is exactly what the bonus greats for wiggle skills checks are in my opinion.
I do agree with you that it is very minor but in that vein I guess all the killer global buffs don't count as anything because they are also extremely minor number tweaks?
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061075#Comment_3061075
I really wanna see you hitting all greats while looking around and calling out stuff. I am really curious.
"It doesn't even have to be all of them, sometimes getting .5 seconds off will give you enough time to wiggle off"
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@Gindaen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061016#Comment_3061016
Distortion with 4 tokens and the ability to regain them via TR is kinda bonkers. You might as well just ask for the perk to be the iron will of aura disabling. It would basically eliminate any killer info gathering perk from the entire trial unless the killer is running some meme info build and bringing like 4 aura reveals or they're scratched mirror Myers.
If you played survivor and used distortion, you would realize that isn't bonkers at all with all the aura reading perks. You can lose all 4 Distortion tokens by doing a gen close to a totem or even just hiding close to a totem within the first minute of the game because of Undying.
Plus, there is a Boon totem that stops aura reading permanently that hardly any survivor uses. So that alone will tell you that 4 tokens and gaining them back in the TR is not bonkers.
Also hard disagree with you that OTRs long duration doesn't matter. You can be unhooked, healed, and go body block and annoy the killer with 3 health states twice a game if you want to be annoying with it. Its also the best anti tunnel perk in the game at the moment. I don't think it will replace BT as BT is now the only perk that will allow EGC camp counter (killer camping on hook -> survivor runs up and plays grab game/killer messes up and hits survivor -> survivor unhooks -> survivor just unhooked body blocks for the unhooker
Annoying the Killer means you're not doing gens or anything to advance the game. I wish annoying the killer would win you games, but it doesn't. It's the same reason that flashlight teams almost always fail. They annoy killer and don't do objectives. (Also the reason flashlights are the second worse survivor item behind keys).
Undying is basically the only perk that can counter distortion rapidly and you will know that it's in play fairly quickly if you lose 2 tokens back to back while working on a gen or near a totem. You are correct that it can chew through tokens quickly though
I was thinking more of a build with BBQ(won't be useable until hook #4) or I'm all ears or darkness revealed. If a killer is just running one of those info perks distortion basically deletes them until mid/late game possibly depending on token regeneration.
I would also argue that with ruin getting dumpstered you will see significantly less undyings in your games. The only other totem worth running it on is devour and devour games are pretty rare.
The boon is bad because it is limited to a very specific area of the map. The effect is strong but the use case of knowing a killer is about to have an aura read moment and then somehow getting into the boon radius is unlikely to ever happen.
In my opinion OTR is significantly stronger tool offensively than a flashlight. Tons of people mess up saves, standing in shack door after your teammate runs through it is something anyone can do and basically not mess up. There's no timing to worry about or specific animation or anything like that. Plus if done correctly you should have ~40-50 seconds left on OTR which the killer cannot wait for to just expire.
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061021#Comment_3061021
tbf the skill check wiggle is actually a really well made feature. You either concentrate on hitting only greats to wiggle 1 sec faster or you sacrifice that so you can look around you better and make maybe calls for your mates.
the skills checks are rhythmic meaning they never speed up or slow down, while the skill check zone does get smaller all you need is muscle memory and you will land many greats. It doesn't even have to be all of them, sometimes getting .5 seconds off will give you enough time to wiggle off and that alone can completely change the way a game is going. I feel like you can still do callouts during this time + the killer is moving at 92%(110% with agi)
I have no problem with the change other than the fact it wasn't announced and was just a random killer nerf. I'm honestly surprised they didn't do the same thing for struggle phase on hook where great skill checks pause the hook timer(I'm glad they didn't).
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There was no rationale for why they changed this. Same thing with why did they change the button mashing wiggle to skill check to also include bonus shorter time(up to one second) off of wiggling.
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Distortion with 4 tokens and the ability to regain them via TR is kinda bonkers. You might as well just ask for the perk to be the iron will of aura disabling. It would basically eliminate any killer info gathering perk from the entire trial unless the killer is running some meme info build and bringing like 4 aura reveals or they're scratched mirror Myers.
Also hard disagree with you that OTRs long duration doesn't matter. You can be unhooked, healed, and go body block and annoy the killer with 3 health states twice a game if you want to be annoying with it. Its also the best anti tunnel perk in the game at the moment. I don't think it will replace BT as BT is now the only perk that will allow EGC camp counter (killer camping on hook -> survivor runs up and plays grab game/killer messes up and hits survivor -> survivor unhooks -> survivor just unhooked body blocks for the unhooker
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Kill rates have been dropping across the board over the last few years, When across all MMRS killers have a sub < 50% kill rate what should be done?
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"Here's some evidence that shows SWF isnt real because of 2 experiments done by streamers with thousands of hours in the game with a sample size of 90ish games"
"Please use this BHVR data to believe my point, also ignore the data that directly contradicts my point"
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That's called power creep and is bad.
As an example the games base healing is balanced around having to find another survivor and dedicating 16 seconds to heal.
CoH + all the healing buffs made it so that healing yourself in that time or faster is normal and the game quickly falls apart if you keep buffing up and adding new perks that are better than the old.
Nerfing is often times the best way to keep the game at a relatively stable level
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Medkits are broken and rather than fix the root cause they just want to make healing perks not work well with them
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It would make chases far too painful. While I do think survivors should eventually go down, killers naturally gaining a huge speedboost that basically doesn't go away on pallet smash just 15 seconds in is too much. If you are in an area that doesn't have an immediate chain to another pallet/tile you'll almost certainly be hit
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The only reason I would disagree with 2 uses is combined with OTR the optimal way to play after being unhooked would be get your endurance stack from unhooking -> Zoom to killer asap -> bodyblock and be as annoying as possible with OTR endurance + 1 health state -> DS killer if they pick you up.
It reminds me of the old 'get DS'd or the survivor unbreakables.' Getting up in the killers face should be risky and 2 time DS encourages being annoying more than anything else. Other than the offensive part of it though I think 2 DS for anti tunnel makes sense.
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I don't think there is a clear answer. A chase that lasts 90 seconds at the start is horrifying, a chase that lasts 90 seconds in mid-game/when multiple survivors aren't on gens isn't as bad.
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Because of the 4% mechanic. You would either need to remove it or change the penalty to not push you into stage two faster.
Like others have said though, people would just stay under the hook and refuse to move or run at the killer or start just wasting pallets all around the map to make the game end faster/miserable for everyone else.
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@EvilSerje said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3049314#Comment_3049314
Is Sadako enough not-nurse killer? I play mosly her from release. If you want instructions, go to youtuble, see some Otzdarva, Dowsy, RedGamingGears (last one always explain everything he do very plainly), etc. But if lack of skill and ego obstructs that, continue throw out some "I HaVe 2 Cump BiCaSe GiN RaSh SeCoNd ChAnCe PuRks NoT FaIr!!!"
So a complete non answer and no timestamps. There isn't a way to stop 3 gens from popping vs good survivors on standard m1 killers on the first chase. emphasis on good, I don't need to see a vid of a trapper refusing to use traps vs potatoes and getting 12 hooks at 5 gens.
Here's some spoilers for your "go watch streamers". They also regularly lose 3 gens early. The difference is they typically play well enough and survivors make dumb altruistic plays that they can turn it around and still win. They also camp and tunnel when they need to in order to get someone out
Its a fact that kill rates are below 50% unless you disagree with bhvrs statements and past data. You think killers should be nerfed more though? What's a good kill rate then? 25%? 0%?
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@EvilSerje said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3048294#Comment_3048294
It's the most weak attempt to defend camping by completely mutilating my point.
3 gens doesn't pop in 90 seconds if killer play with skill.
But yeah, your sentence can be saved with some adjustments: point is no matter how bad killer do camping/tunneling, good teams will pop gens anyway.
Please pick any non-nurse killer and give us the timestamps of when you think a normal M1 killer should find the first survivor, hit them, hit them again, pick them up, and put them on a hook. Or if you're gonna throw out some "U jUsT NeEd 2 PresSurE!" give us the timestamps for when you abandon chase and go chase off gens I'd love to see a winning perk combo + instructions for how to play as trapper and not lose 3 gens on the first chase or play ping pong between 2 gens that are at 80%ish in a losing battle.
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It's wild to me that even when BHVR releases stats that say killers have low kill rates(sub 50%) people still post here that killers are so OP and get their way always and reccomend ridiculous survivor buffs like immortality on hook if a killer is within 16M. Kill rates have been dropping consistently for a couple of years now.
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While I do agree in principal it's extremely hard to do. Everyone loves saying "buff solo to swf and then bring killers up!!" But what exactly is this mysterious buff to killers?
Even with just 10 seconds added to gens we see doomposting about forever plague/legion so we can't touch gen timers. Buffing chase means more oppressive/unfun moments. I don't see what knob we can possibly tweak to universally bring all killers up if we turn solos into swfs in terms of info provided.
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@versacefeng said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3043892#Comment_3043892
Every killer has a chance against skilled survivors and SWF. Stop using Ms. Fundamentally Broken as an excuse for being bad with other killers.
I'm curious what makes you say that, according to BHVRS most recent stat dump, most killers were hoverring around the 50-55ish% kill rate average across all MMRS. Based on history it's been a downward trend from some killers have 60%+ kill rates in the past. If that trend continues we are probably below 50 for most killers(this also makes sense given BHVRs own words of the kill rates are too low across the board). If we make some leaps of logic it's not hard to assume that kill rates low at high MMR(much < 50%) and probably higher than 50% at low MMR.