Carth
Carth
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From my understanding, DH now provides endurance which will do nothing vs killer powers that don't damage you. A nemesis tentacle whipping you the first time and not damaging you would still result in you getting infected even if timed perfectly with new dead hard, drs shocks are in the same camp
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What if she didn't feel he was camping and saw her teammate abandoning her to work on a gen until she bled out for hatch? Proxy camping has such a loose definition, is it crazy to think she thought you could have saved her?
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@Alcuin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3093908#Comment_3093908
If non-RNG makes things not work out math-wise, yes.
IF, big if, pinhead needs nerfs his numbers should be tweaked. Making the box RNG is awful and cuts both ways, If it can RNG spawn under a survivors feet it can also RNG spawn under pinheads and insta completing the box for either side on spawn is not very fun
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A-are you asking to add more rng to dbd?
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My only fear with changing it is it would become the old iron will of auras for teammates. Why would you run another aura perk that has limitations on distance ,injured status, time, cooldowns when if you just play altruistically you get perma aura reading that never goes away. I feel like other aura perks would look awful in comparison, and in the future how could they make a new aura perk that wouldn't be awful by comparison?
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I have never understood this vague hand wavey "buff solo to swf then buff killers!!". We have seen what just adding 10 seconds to gens has done. Do you really want to trade another 10-20 for base kindred? Or an action wheel?
We already hear tons of unfun complaints about chase times and anti loop so you can't make killers faster and we have also seen how .2 seconds off survivor sprint and .3 seconds has brought solo survivors to it's knees. Want to add another .2 in exchange for a voice comm system?
We can't have strong 1v4 powers(pinhead), we can't have strong mobility(blight, nurse, spirit), we can't have anti loop(nemi, pyramid, dredge, artist). So to everyone saying "buff solo to swf then buff killers", I have to ask how? Even the most miniscule of changes has collosal backlash and knowing your bad Claudette is self caring live vs when you get out on a hook probably isn't worth another 10-15 seconds on gens.
Solo queues real problem is getting randoms who have completely different goals and skill levels from you. 'im cleansing all 5 totems this match'. 'im running a silly meme locker build'. No amount of info in the world can make up for these players.
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I feel like yes and no, it totally makes sense for Blight and Nurse but what about for trap based killers? If my buddy jumps into a locker mid-chase and forces the killer to grab him out and its Hag/Trapper can I run over their traps and trigger them across the map and they can't tp/the trap just disarms or would it just disable placing the trap?
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If a survivor is on a gen for 15 seconds at the start of the game and you chase them off it is going to take 15 * 4 = 60 seconds to regress that time. In addition to the awful, awful time it takes to degrade at base rate it has anti-synergy with every kicking perk in the game. No overcharge, No call of brine, No pop. I think that's ok though, I absolutely hate hex perks and ruin was a clear outlier of regression value at 200%, but I disagree that it still has value. I would take almost any other perk over it if I had the choice.
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@CodeDB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3091722#Comment_3091722
Of all the things this person posted, this is your takeaway? Because they used tunneling to mean "only focus on the single person, ignoring gens, boons, other survivors, etc" instead of the more common use of the word tunneling as "the strategy of eliminating a player from the game as quick as possible while ignoring all other survivors".
Completely skipping over the fact they claim that any killer can 3k every game without perks or even really using the killers powers?
My point with it is survivors have a bad habit of calling anything the killer does tunneling and camping. As far as the guide, as another user posted this is how you easily win vs bad survivors, yes.
Proxy camp and tunnel work on survivors who cannot loop, equip non meta perks, don't maximize gen time, and don't body block for each other. That said I completely agree with the main point which is including better camping and tunneling defenses base kit.
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"Typically survivors will spawn near the gens farthest from where you spawn. Once you find any survivor, relentlessly tunnel them until they are down and on first hook."
How on earth is it tunneling when they are the first survivor in the game you encounter? Is it now tunneling if you hit a survivor twice in a row?
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Survivors and killers both DC for a variety of reasons. Other than a single guy on this form I hope was trolling, no one has posted about dying on purpose/letting survivors go on purpose. The DC penalty was put in place in the past because it was so bad. This is not a new thing for DBD for players to DC.
There are tens of thousands of players playing games, If you think the ~20 games you're playing per day is helping shift some metric that the devs will gasp at and implement a hotfix for you should probably take a break from DBD.
If survivors truly are DCing in radical #s significantly higher than usual then it's something that should be addressed but the idea that this is some hivemind effort seems extremely silly.
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Should just be silent, no penalty attached.
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There can be a BP tax for "camping"(define camping) as soon as there's a BP tax for bodyblocking with endurance.
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@TheEmeraldTuber said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3088599#Comment_3088599
That's fine, but that has nothing to do with the actual balance discussion that I proposed. Saying it shouldn't be top tier doesn't actually do anything for balance. You instead attacked the vocabulary I used instead of focusing on the proposition.
Ok, let me try to be more clear. You yourself have already pointed out that DH set at 1.0 second means you are invuln for 1.0 seconds = 4 Meters traveled. If you get to a window with 4 meters distance and are just in range of a lunge you are basically invuln if dead hard lasted for 1 second, .5 shortens that distance to 2. .6 or .75 change that distance respectively to 2.4 and 3 meters. The point being the more you bump up the invuln window the more you get back into the DH for distance world. We could say Dead Hard should be .99 seconds because it is .01 shorter than the old version. I think any iteration of DH that has a distance component is broken. Fundamentally bursts of invulnerability/super lunging at the users command with no pre-reqs do not work in this game in my opinion.
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@TheEmeraldTuber said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3088554#Comment_3088554
What? How does that even make sense in the context of DH? What logic are you using?
That because an overpowered perk was nerfed it's suddenly too weak. DH should not be a top tier perk after getting nerfed for the "meta shiftup" BHVR was targeting. Similar to undying getting nuked from being able to transfer hexs 3 times to 1 time max.
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I guess by that logic old undying was "outplaying" survivors at every turn and should get at least 2 totem transfers.
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As a killer main you can revert every change except Dead Hard and I would still be pleased. The forums are peddling this narrative that "nobody even used dead hard ever! Why are we experiencing such bad games??" The stats tell a very different story. The idea that DH's removal would change nothing seems potentially wrong to me.
From mid-high mmr you had 50-80% useage of the perk. While you yourself may not have used it, if your teammates did and it bought them 30+ seconds and now those same survivors are going down 30 seconds sooner, that could easily explain why games have suddenly changed so hard. STBFL and thanat are still really bad choices on the killers who they were really bad on before(hint: most of these perks have 2-4 killers who they apply to max, everyone else gets questionable value from them).
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@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3087657#Comment_3087657
Why not?I think survivors should know if the killer is camping,and a survivors to let their teammates of that as well.
There is a huge difference between camping and being near the hook because a survivor is forcing you to or you're just traveling the map. Have you ever seen how much of "the game", is covered if a survivor is hooked in the middle with kindred and open handed? Everyone basically has old OOO
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Sprint burst might satisfy your desire to 'get one over on the killer'. Sprinting out of their swing is probably the next closest thing to dead harding that I can think of. I understand what you mean though, it was one of the few very visceral in your face "outplayed" moments a survivor can do.
That said you still technically can do this with dead hard it's just much harder and you can't use it for distance anymore.
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This wouldn't be fair vs killers at hook trades. RN if you are a killer and get to the hook before a survivor, and the survivor is healthy you usually play the grabbing game where the survivor spams grab to get to the killer to swing then unhooks so they can trade. If you couldn't spam it the killer won't swing until you hard commit and then will grab you. Camping would be made significantly stronger with such a change in my opinion.
Edit: just saw your if grabs were removed. That would work in that case then but could still have really frustrating moments where maybe you accidently let go of the trigger, get out on CD for x seconds and the other survivor goes into the next phase due to it
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It's good on an all info build or combo'd with other info perks. It's extremely hard countered by distortion though, so if you have a build let's say BBQ + lethal as your only aura reveals it's totally possible that you never reveal a survivor who has the distortion perk equipped if they regen tokens in your TR with you unaware
I think on its own it's very weak compared to other info perks you could equip.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3085488#Comment_3085488
We’ll have to see. With the likes of new calm spirit though I’m worried they won’t change their habits.
And yes let’s hope regression (especially repair speed debuff) perks are out of the question for awhile now. I actually quite like all 3 of dredge’s perks even if they are kinda weak so I hope they continue the trend of chase/info perks
I'm curious, why do you like his perks if you think they're weak?
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Mechanics like that don't work because survivors use any defense intended mechanic as an offensive action. In this example loop at tiles near a hooked teammate and enjoy freezing the hook timer/adding time to it.
Clearly the intent is to combat camping which I totally think is good, but you also just gave survivors a weapon to use vs non camping killers
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You can delete thana from the game if you want to. This perk is so strange to me, prior to this patch it was considered trash on every killer who couldn't discourage survivors from healing. Green medkits, CoH, BK, Desperate Measures, WGLF. All are perks that can help you get people up and healed asap(scale of 10 seconds or under per heal). Thana was bad because the logic is survivors will just heal and drop thana down to 1-2 stacks max(let's be honest 1-2 stack is nothing). Not a single soul complained about it on the forums nor about this dreaded pentimento + thana combo that anyone could have done in the past. Now I see "forever x" describing any killer who runs thana alone. Just heal.
That said I don't play legion or plague and I still think the old logic is true, if you cannot hurt/down/hook survivors faster then they can heal then you're gonna be in trouble. I seriously doubt .2 seconds off injured speed boost and .3 seconds off blade wipe time suddenly turned every killer into an injuring God who you can't heal against.
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@PBsamichShoe said:
I'll never deflect the fact that I used dead hard every single match. It was a great perk. What made it great was that you could trigger it when you wanted to and it gave you a tiny bit of distance, because as much as crybaby killer mains want to convince you otherwise it's not easy to string together loops between tiles on the maps because the devs haven't historically been great at designing map tiles and because they spawn randomly aside from a few fixed structures in the map. Killers act like the map is designed so that a survivor can easily string together different tiles anywhere at all times but thats just not the reality. These maps are made by the same devs who didn't realize they had inadvertently created infinite loops on several of them and then had to go and patch those out. They're human and don't make perfect stuff but you have killers who seem to think they devised that on purpose.
I've seen streamers who somehow magically get map tiles that all spawn within distance of each other where you don't need to use an exhaustion perk to string them together but for people with less than 200 people in chat on their streams the tiles seem to spawn like they do for everyone else. Randomly. And sometimes you only get one pair that spawn close enough to each other to string them together without any kind of perk to help. Then your rando drops the strong pallet in one of them and you can't string them together anymore.
You could literally give me an exhaustion perk that only nudges me forward 2-3 feet but if I could use it when I want it to instead of being based off some obscure niche situation I could extend a chase for like 4 gens because most killers don't bother learning how to run map tiles.
I've ran killers for 2-3 gens before mostly just by running around the same pallet loop because they won't break the pallet when it's a strong loop. They literally just keep trying to chase me in circles and double back on it. You can't do that now because they bloodlust faster. So rather than expectin gthe killer to learn that they need to break the pallet on certain loops now they can just hold w until they catch up to you and get a free hit.
They could have gotten rid of the iframes and just made it a distance only perk and it would have been perfect. Or they could have nerfed it as they did and made one of the other exhaustion perks worth running but they didn't.
I'm really good at killer. I mained every single killer at some point with the exception of the two latest ones. I got bored with it but I learned how to run the map tiles, how to mind game, and how to moonwalk. I even taught a few killers how to moonwalk and mindgame loops while using their chainsaw as bubba. A lot of people didn't think you could even do that.
People want to try and shame people for using dead hard and I say thats BS. DH isnt the problem, your chase skills are weak.
You say you used it every single match no matter the circumstances, and so did many other survivors(80% at high mmr) but it wasn't because it was brokenly strong? I don't follow that line of reasoning especially when old ruin change was due to so many killers at high mmr running it
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Sorry guys, I was going to let us all enjoy the benefits of this flan but a forum poster insisted I kill you all :(
All joking aside if anyone is genuinely playing in certain ways with the idea being that they are going to somehow impact the devs decision making based on a metric that has thousands of other players games going into it they might not be thinking clearly
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@Firellius said:
How about 3 second DS baseline, and DS itself adds 2 seconds?
I think this is a good idea, can make it 1/2/3 extra seconds
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083936#Comment_3083936
Which was the last super strong survivor perk though? It was dead hard released in July 2017
Off the top of my head killers have got pain resonance, hex undying, no way out, Corrupt intervention and pop goes the weasel in that same time frame.
I would argue that has more to do with the fact that they already released some of the best survivor perks in the game based on the games framework and nothing could compete unless you openly embrace power creep. For example, how can you make a sound based perk better than old Iron will? When OTR released people(rightfully so) asked, "why would I ever run this when I could just run Iron will and not worry about a timer or condition?"
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CoH, the most recent survivor meta perk has gone through 4 nerfs(2 on PTB and 2 live) and is still an amazing perk. I think devs are doing ok with making strong survivor perks
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Problem 1. Many people don't run BT, now they would rather be greedy and run OTR because nobody runs BT. It's a weird circular loop but unless you have 2 BT people on your team(you don't want just 1 in case that surv gets hooked). Without BT you don't really have any hope of getting the survivor off hook outside of bodyblocking
Problem 2. Dead Hard is dead. Before you could use it extremely well in a body block swarm to get just enough distance to get in front of your friend or behind them or whatever you needed to do in order to maximize the bodyblock chain and erase any positioning mistakes
Problem 3. No DS means the person on hook HAS to run they can no longer turn around and also contribute to the bodyblock chain because "lol the gates are 99'd as long as someone opens it I can crawl out in 60 seconds" is not longer a thing.
It was beyond silly that the person who just got unhooked was encouraged to then turn around and bodyblock for their rescuer because they were the strongest survivor in the past(BT effect + DS). In the old world you WANTED the killer to hit the survivor who was just unhooked and down them.
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083532#Comment_3083532
Weird that I keep getting screams every time, also you cannot also predict when you are about to get downed. Sometiems you can get suprised, especially on Killers like Dredge.
That is true! I am by no means saying the perk is garbage dumpster tier but against a good swf, trying to win, communicating, the odds of you getting regular eruption value are low. There is no true stealth killer in this game and they all have audio cues + procs dependent on survivor team "guys my gen is at 90% watch out for tinkerer" "yellow gen, none of us brought the gen highlight perk so we know trail of torment is in play", etc.
I am not talking about playing vs solos or players who aren't trying hard.
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3082793#Comment_3082793
I would really love to see survivors that "counter" erruption? I have been playing with that perk since it came out and have never encountered anyone who managed to dodge the explosion by letting go before the down.
On swf it takes all of two seconds to say "guys I'm about to go down let go of gens for a sec". It's one of the easiest perks to avoid in swf after the first time it goes off.
In solo there are a few perks that could maybe help you but none as powerful as the swf counter.
That's why I argue the secondary of eruption should be something else
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@Gladonos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3083083#Comment_3083083
A hilariously biased lie. I'm sure you would have no issue flipping all the changes in the opposite direction then right?
How much time do you think dead hard added to a chase on average and how many survivors brought it? If the current exhaustion perks don't buy as much time in chase then the survivor team has lost time to do things.
.5 Ms and lower buffs to things are helpful yes, but they wouldn't suddenly be the difference between a killer curb stomping a game in the first 2 minutes or not. Which according to the forums is what is happening.
If you had to either revert dead hard or the 10 sec+ other minor buffs I would bet money most killers would say revert the times and keep dead hard dead.
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@Tactrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3079741#Comment_3079741
No, it's ok when you address both sides, not ok when you address one. Which is what they did here, they addressed just killers, and nothing but. And I'd like to mention that they were told repeatedly by respected DBDers that play with them and around them, that this patch is extremely killer sided. And they still went on to release it despite that. So it's not like they don't know what they did, they know, they just don't care.
And it's already showing, in the last day their review on steam went from 83% positive to 80%.
Like keys and moris being addressed at the same time?
Or dead hard validation added
Or wiggle skill checks coming with a free bonus reduction to wiggle time up to 1 second
BHVR has an awful track record of being "fair" to both sides when they buff/nerf.
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To clarify, it was the offensive use with it. Killers would be happy with a trade/attacking another survivor but you had the unhooked survivor being as aggressive as possible because he knew he had bt and even if the killer continued to go after him and managed to down him he would ds and run through gate or crawl through.
The defensive nature of the perk was fine in EGC but using it to become immortal and then blodyblock your rescuer is where it was dumb.
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@Zephinism said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LH1QR9XNKRCU/screenshot-1227.png
just played against this in solo. both console survivors lasted about 15 seconds per chase. 3 slowdown perks + discordance. we did 1 gen. Actually gonna stop playing for the night lol.
If 2 of your teammates went from full health to down in 15 seconds each, that Freddy could have been perkless and still beat your team
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Eruption should not work the way it does in my opinion. The kick and explode part is fine but the block for x seconds on blowup is annoying, vs swf it does nothing and 30 seconds for solo is pretty excruciating. I don't think perks that are specifically targeted to solos vs swfs should be a thing(maybe I'd make an exception for knockout)
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Because against good survivors as an m1 killer if you hadn't tunneled and it was EGC and more then 2 survivors were alive you might as well have gone and stood In a corner because good survivors would easily dance around you between BT, DH, DS, and bodyblocking
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A few minutes during prime time does not equal "bad". Does that mean survivor queues have been insanely bad for years now?
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This type of idea has been suggested before but people were averse to the idea of dying on their first hook just because their bad teammate got hooked x times in a row.
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3082533#Comment_3082533
4.5 secs is more than nothing. If you want gens to regress, at least don’t facecamp
It is not face camping if a survivor chooses to run to another survivor on hook in chase(assuming the chase started in some other area of the map)
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Ok, so what's your plan for when a killer goes to 21M and turns around to face the hook? It takes a 115% killer 21/4.6= ~4.5 seconds to close the gap holding w at that distance. It takes 1 second to unhook so you're only gonna have 3.5 seconds of headstart in that scenario. That's assuming the killer doesn't start moving until the survivor begins the unhook animation.
It also is extremely punishing to fair killers because if such a system were implemented and I was a survivor I would want to go down near the hook to turn off all regression
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3082175#Comment_3082175
But comparing old hatch with old ebony mori is like comparing a bullet with a nuke!
You had a lot more restrictions for using the hatch that insta kill when down old mori.
They were both awful and put the other team into an incredibly annoying experience when abused. Hatch as everyone as reminiscing wasn't that bad where it just happens naturally or a survivor or two get out. A 4 man swf bringing in keys + hatch offering + map offering + dropping keys to counter franklin's was absolute garbage to vs because there was nothing you could do.
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I'm sure people really miss old ebony Mori too
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So we should balance survivors being a 4 man team around the idea that only 2 understand what to do, what happens when 4 good survivors get together in swf?
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@ElleGreen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3079821#Comment_3079821
Wasting two perk slots to make a perk decent isn't for me
Ruin + Undying
Devour + Undying
Pentimento + Plaything
There are a ton of perks that are absolutely trash on their own and are basically 2/4 of your loadout if you choose to use it or get an extremely gimped/bad single perk.
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Devs want thana to function where survivors have a choice to either power through the debuff or choose to heal to get rid of it. They did not like the fact that thana's intended counter was in fact already countered by the perk. That's the logic they gave when they removed the healing debuff %.
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@NamesCris said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/336163/killer-hypocrisy
I still have zero idea where you guys are getting 164 seconds from
They are assuming a worst case scenario of pentimento(30%) being up & also thanat at full stacks(22%). Which, while true, anyone can heal to reduce the effect of thant(hey buffed BK, CoH, Desperate Measures), and a single survivor will 100% know where pentimento is if the killer uses it at the first chance they can. Go smash it while he's in chase with someone else.
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@CyberRoninX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3079188#Comment_3079188
I know you can't stack endurance effects. I was just wondering if the amount of time would increase that you would have endurance.
Oh, as in will you have 85 seconds of endurance with base + OTR if they both last their maximum time? I'm not 100% sure about that, if I had to guess they would both start counting down at the same time the moment you get unhooked and you would just have a max of 80 though.
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they do not, if you have OTR and base endurance and take a hit, you will lose the endurance effect and not have another, it is no longer possible to stack endurance effects nor chain them together.