Carth
Carth
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- Carth
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The idea of normalizing regression across the board is an interesting idea, I feel like that ship has already sailed though, they would need to completely re-design a ton of perks to do this.
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People who have a stockpile(500+ cakes) since the event have been playing with +100% BP per game minimum since the event.
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Swap some of your load out for info perks. BBQ, whispers, bitter murmur, etc. If it bothers you that much.
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The proposed idea of it only affecting itself is laughable, especially given new distortion. Let's pretend lethal was just a flat 11 seconds and nothing else.
New distortion not only 100% counters it but continues to counter other killer aura perks as well? So distortion hard counters lethal and depending on refresh rate of tokens in match other killer perks as well?
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yes, if you run an all aura read build and can capitalize on chases get ready to hear "Hacker! How did they know?"
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It will 100% be fixed, as you pointed out the same problem has existed in the past with other killers. Moonwalking to abuse some gameplay mechanic is not intended.
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I don't think they will ever revert the endurance part. They explicitly called out they don't want to have two divergent types of endurance hits, even if it's just limited to a single perk.
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Agreed, it's extremely painful to use and is odd in that if self healing speeds were a problem self care was at the bottom of the tier list of healing yourself quickly(32 seconds) vs green medkits ~9. Even factoring in using self care for cheeky stuff like 99% resil and healing mid chase and the like. I think it should be reverted back to its 50% val.
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What perks are you running into OP and what do you think would be fair regression values for them?
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Can you explain more what you think has changed between the old dead hard and new, other than it being much harder to pull off now that makes it less fun? Or is it that the decrease in the timing window is not fun to try to hit?
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There is absolutely nothing that has changed with that perk or toolboxes where they would suddenly be better to their pre-6.1.0 variants unless we pretend survivors are a hivemind who have been holding back this entire time and only now are bringing toolboxes and running prove thyself. I saw both of those regularly pre 6.1.0 and continue to see them regularly since the patch.
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Agreed, it should actually repair gens at 200% survivor repair speed. Kicking gens isn't fair!
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@Oscarnator said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112221#Comment_3112221
You’re assuming you’re playing against a SWF? In that case odds are you’re gonna lose regardless unless you play Nurse or Blight with busted add ons. Can’t really use the “what good SWF” argument since they’re the strongest role in the game. Arguably second to Nurse.
By that logic go Nurse, eat BT and down them instantly. What good nurse let’s survivors get any gens done?
The majority of the player base is SoloQ. Going off that most SoloQ teams don’t run BT. But let’s say they do then eat BT and down them again. Or run STBFL or mobility killer or ranged killer or Legion since endurance doesn’t stack.
Who said you HAVE to sacrifice to unhook? I agree hook diving is kind of a problem but 1 for 1ing is extremely boring. Both sides get 0 chase interaction. You just hit them twice and back on hook until you 4K or the survivors give up on u hooking and gen rush you while you stay camping hook. Who would want that lol. If you’re a comp player and take this game way too seriously sure but if you want to have fun why would you camp hooks? Because like you said any good SWF will just gen rush and leave.
the extremely strong on both ends should be nerfed. The idea of players on comms having free 1 min base DS in addition to anti tunnel and anti camp perks sounds awful. Just like nurse running her best perks is also awful, they should both be toned down. I do think camping protection should be increased & perhaps tunneling as well, but disagree that a 1 min shield is the solution to this issue. I would much rather they buffed the base time of free endurance & reverted the DS stun nerf + give it 2 procs.
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@Oscarnator said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3112203#Comment_3112203
Wait 5 second —> Down Survivor —> Slug —> Chase Unhooker
2 people not doing gens a 3rd needs to lick up the person on the ground. What’s the problem here?
That's a terrible trade and assuming BT is in play(what any good SWF will have 2 of and establish who is ssaving who?) Do I magically wait 15 seconds and get an auto down? Unhooking is intended to be a strategic play, not divebomb the hook and save your teammate without sacrificing anything, also unbreakable completely changes this formula
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What I don't like about it is it makes bodyblocking insanely strong. Get unhooked? why WOULDNT you body block for the unhooker? You have 5 seconds BT + a free 1 min DS? bodyblocking should be an extremely calculated play not lol I get 2 free health states + a stun and chase reset off the hook.
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The largest motivation was probably consistency. They didn't want to have "endurance effects" that behaved one way and "mettle of man" that behaved in an entirely unique way.
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I'm not sure I follow you. The patch undoubtedly boosted the effects of camping and tunneling, however I don't follow the "it killed my playstyle". How exactly did it kill "aggressive players"? What even is an "aggressive survivor", the only thing I can think of that would be different from before is wanting the killer to chase you and abusing dead hard for distance?
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They do remove collision? Or are you asking for invulnerability after a zombie hits you?
In today's version of the code if a zombie hits you, you should be able to zoom through him.
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It's not even cockiness from unhooks. Survivors apparently lost their minds with the removal of DH, +10 seconds to gens, and .2 & .3 second reductions to actions.
Survivors will unironically call everything you do tunneling and camping. I had a game earlier vs a ttver who I planned to let everyone go in the match at the start, I even brought a flan for the +100% for everyone. He was in a swf with 3 other survivors and upon getting my 8th hook and not killing anyone(we were still at 5 gens). I heard him and his teammates screaming about how toxic I was and somehow I was tunneling, camping, slugging everyone at once and we were at 8/12 hooks with 5 gens left and all 4 survivors alive, I unironically have no idea what these survivor players are expecting killers to do.
I was playing dredge with 0 regression(BBQ, lethal, darkness revealed , franklin's). These are the kinds of players who are now insisting the game is killer sided.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3108047#Comment_3108047
It's certainly easier to deal with for swf survivors than for solo survivors. Which already makes the perk a bit problematic.
Yes, I do remember where I cleansed my totems. But increasing a gen from 90 seconds to 128 seconds is beyond ridiculous. It's too strong, definitely.
So a one time conversion of an already cleansed totem to another breakable totem where at least one survivor knows where its location is, is too strong? I'd love to hear your take on boon totems that cannot be broken without a perk and provide massive team benefits. Circle of healing In particular.
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@PapiFelixPSN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3108194#Comment_3108194
If Sadako could teleport within the first ~10 seconds or so, she'd be too strong. As it stands, she's already A tier.
I would just decrease the teleportation cooldown to the same TV to maybe 15 seconds and remove slowing down when Manifesting, as well as remove the Lullaby. That's all she really needs. She's already the best hit and run killer in the game, so if you're good with her you'll tend to win as long as the survivors aren't running COH or medkits.
Sadako A tier?
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A killer perk that doesn't turn itself off or function worse than baseline mechanics unless you remove a lot of gen slowdown to take advantage of the +2? Oh no. Anyways.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107128#Comment_3107128
I'm simply pointing out the absurdity of the argument that we can't balance the game at high levels because "We need to balance around the 99%" If we balance around the 99% one way, we need to do it all ways. Otherwise you are just biased.
This is a common line around here.
"You can't balance around high level swf!"
"High level nurses can't keep getting away with it!"
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@AvengerBear said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3107261#Comment_3107261
You clearly have never played Nurse, do you even know that Nurse has the lowest kill rate? Why is that? Because any mediocre killer cant use her well, and OP is a "Beginner" Killer as most of you called him, and him playing Nurse is the worst possible choice and yet he still won. I think this proves so much more than a group of 4 men veteran SWF playing sweaty hardcore against baby killers.
Except he's playing "baby nurse" vs baby survivors, who don't know where gens are, who dont know totem spawns, who probably don't know how to loop. You could probably play m1 nurse and win with basic tile knowledge and not even blink vs brand new survivors and get 4ks. It's absolutely baffling that DBDs community takes smurfing examples as proof of balance changes needed.
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@AvengerBear said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3103414#Comment_3103414
they are doing sweaty SWF against baby killers, please tell me more
Like a nurse tunneling and camping vs baby survivors? How is using the top killer and what is recognized as one of the top strats especially vs new players any different from swfing to win?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
I’m more concerned about the perk being a 60% nerf, because the big bonus that requires it to be active on all 4 survivors at the same time, will be a very short and rare occurrence for anyone besides plague.
Why is the perk balanced around this unrealistic big bonus?
Because everyone was losing their mind about thanat. To the point that people were acting like it was a god tier perk on any killer. Prior to the 6.1.0 update it was trash on everyone except legion and plague. On the 6.1.0 update I would argue it was still trash on everyone except legion and plague. After this nerf it will be trash on everyone except legion and plague.
1-2 stacks of thanat, is, has, and always will be extremely minor. Unless you are a very fast killer or can force survivors to not want to heal via your power then they will just bust out a green medkit and heal in ~ 9 seconds, or CoH, or BK. Survivors who chose to remain injured when thanat was in play on standard m1 killers were misplaying or getting demolished by a killer outside their skill range.
I'm glad it's getting nerfed if for no other reason we can stop pretending it's the reason solo q turned awful.
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Mettle of man shouldn't be a thing. Just like dead hard shouldn't have been a thing. A third health state that activates after x. X being playing altruistically or just playing the game in the case of dead hard.
You either have to make it so hard to obtain nobody ever gets it without throwing or by demolishing the other side ,or it has to have tons of limitations applied to be fair(just like Thanat being trash on everyone except plague and legion)
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It's a ghetto aura read that does not provide facing and can be faked if you know it's coming and how long it lasts(significantly harder than im making it sound)
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"I'd say nerfing the amount of hooks there are in game, I havent really counted but I genuinely think there are way too many, especially when killers get access to DECREASING the range between hooks. (Rotting oak) I'd say there should be 48 or 60 meters of range between one hook to a next, given that killers can easily cross between one hook to another and 60 meters of range are nothing to their movement speed compared to ours."
60 meter hooks at a 4.6 M/S rate(115% speed killers) would mean 60/ 4.6 = 13 seconds of travel time. A blade wipe takes 2.7 seconds to recover from. Base wiggle time is 16 seconds. With 1 body block you would never be able to make it to another hook if a survivor goes down at an already hooked survivor. Add in breakout + boil over for more fun. This is also assuming it is a straight line from hook A to hook B which is not always the case, terrain often means you have to follow a less efficient path.
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DS got nerfed because survivors turned it into a weapon in EGC. If you got unhooked with it up you would purposefully get into the killers face to get him to hit you because you were the survivor with the best odds of getting out. If they down you they either slugsl you for 60 seconds(more than enough time to crawl to a gate) or they pick you up and get ds'd.
It was way too strong and absolutely silly that after getting saved the survivor who just got unhooked was being the most aggressive bodyblocker on the time between BT + DS to protect other teammates.
DS exists as anti tunnel and the survivor forcing the killer to hit him and not just focusing on getting out means you aren't getting tunneled/forcing the killer to tunnel you.
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@Sally_S_gay_son said:
I agree
if you did not use ds up until that point you played with 3 perks all match (which is what people use to defend noed), DS is a one time use powerful perk and if it grants you an escape it is what it is, it's actually killer's fault they were in that situarion to begin with.
This change is actually the only truly bs change from this patch, it's like here let's go extra way to help bad killers for not being able to get kills before the gens popped
If DS only activated in EGC then sure it can be reverted back to its strength. DS still provides value throughout the entire trial potentially. No matter what NOED cannot be used early or used at all outside of EGC. That's not true for DS.
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Distortion is amazing and works great for countering killer builds that just have one aura reveal perk(think just running BBQ, or just running I'm all ears, or any of the killer addon's that reveal survivor auras). It really only fails at it's goal if the killer brings multiple aura info perks which is an extremely rare build.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3103426#Comment_3103426
I don't know how that has anything to do with streamer SWFs, and I also want to see her nerfed.
The idea that experienced players smurfing vs new players should be used for balancing purposes. In your case it's you face camping and tunneling for x games to make a point that "these strats are too effective". How is that any different from pointing to the hardcore survivor challenge and drawing the conclusion that survivors need massive nerfs? Or if a god nurse buys a new act and plays nurse exclusively for 20+ games?(I imagine you would see an easy 100% win rate)
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3103414#Comment_3103414
If you balance the game around 1% of the player base how is the other 99% suppose to enjoy the game?
I guess God nurses are fine then?
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Why did you smurf and buy a brand new acct to do this on vs your main? Based on this style of experiment I guess the 4 top streamers doing hard core survivor challenge and curb stomping 20+ killers into the ground is proof killers are trash and survivors need heavy nerfs?
Regardless of the answer face camping and tunneling was too strong before the patch even and should have better protection base.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3103380#Comment_3103380
But how many times can you realisticaly pull that off.
Most of those videos are done by people that have like +3000h on dbd that are skillful enough to get away with those tricks. It's like i'm telling you "I can show you a clip of a bubba downing 4 surv in one chainsaw sweep, too strong, lets nerf"
I don't think a survivor should be able to heal to full in ~9 seconds of rounding a corner. Nor do I think nurse should be a thing. I think we should balance around top(ish) players of both sides. To that end I would say a survivor using 100% no sound in a way to lose chase/heal up while the killer is totally lost in ~9 seconds is far, far more common than 4 survivors standing in a single bubba sweep.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3103179#Comment_3103179
It is not that Sound is not used in chases, the thing is that dbd has a lot of ways of showing the killer where the survivors are.
Survivors bleed, they leave scratch marks, they shout, their aura can be revealed with many perks and addons. Blocking sound is not as big of a deal when you consider all this.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3103355#Comment_3103355
again, those survivors dont bleed? dont leave scratch marks? you are much more inclined to follow the scratch marks than hearing the sounds.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3103183#Comment_3103183
Iron will is a good perk, i am not saying is weak. But the pick rate it had was mainly because it was one of the easier to get, as it belongs to one of the free survivors, not because it was broken by any means.
What i am trying to say is that people believe that Iron will was the ultimate stealth mechanic, like it was some kind of invisibility when it was nothing like that. And because of a perk is designed to specific counter 1 out of 4/5 mechanics the killer has in order to track survivor does not make it broken.
The problem isn't that survivors don't make other sounds. The problem is ducking into a corner during chase is immensenly powerful with almost no drawbacks with iron will equipped if you're injured. I can link to tons of vids of people using bite the bullet + green medkits to heal to full within ~9 seconds of the killer losing them at a jungle gym where they turn entirely mute. That's when silence was broken, not the Claud trying to wander off into the corner of the map but survivors using pure silence combined with extremely fast heal speeds to basically round a corner and if the killer doesn't spot them instantly losing the chase.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3103134#Comment_3103134
"Iron will was broken. It cut off an entire one of the killer five senses for one perk slot"
My god, what do you think dbd is? a real surviving experience where you focus your inner strengths and hone you 5 senses to your limits?
3 out of 5 of your sense you cannot use because you are playing a PC GAME.
The only ones you can use are sight and sound, and sound only comes as confirmation of you cannot see.
In a normal chase you would use like 90% sight and 10%sound. if you think that sound makes the world of a difference, i invite you to play blindfolded
Sound is a very big deal in DBD. If you think sound doesn't matter then nerfing iron will isn't a big deal, if you admit that iron will was actually a huge perk I have to question how did you think it was fair compared to other sound perks? Old OTR was considered trash because 50% of its effect was a bad time limited iron will.
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Truly optimal?
If on swf = callout when you see the auras of totems from a distance + their locations, with this you avoid cleansing playthings. Survivors can easily find the playthings without having to cleanse based on the aura reveal. Now that you know where the playthings are and can ignore them you can wait until 3 stacks of devour and attempt to find the devour totem. You should be able to cleanse/have a good idea of which one the devour is based on the # of hooks and callouts from your team by the time the pig gets 3 hooks. Destroy the devour and when the pig inevitabley goes to pentimento it you can easily go break the single instance of pentimento.
Now the pig has no value from pentimentio, oblivious value from plaything, and no value from shattered hope if you don't boon. 2/4 of her perks are literally doing nothing and the other 1/4 is just making you guys oblivious. You have also cleansed devour so the pig has basically nothing other than blocking a TR.
In solo = significantly harder to deal with without comms, if your teammates are regularly cleansing their playthings then they are making a mistake and creatinng multiple pentimento locations to deal with. I would argue that if your teammates know what to do it can be countered in the same way as above without comms. However based on the state of soloQ I imagine you would get teammates who cleanse every single plaything/boon multiple times.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3103045#Comment_3103045
I don't think hiding read stain is that strong in chase. If that was the case Beast of pray would be meta but it's not
I would argue that hiding your red stain prior to chase is stronger than hiding it mid-chase. I'd agree with you though that beast of prey is not very good.
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Sure old iron will can come back with the addition of a new perk "Killing Will". An uninjured survivor does not see the red stain. If you say that's broken/kills mind games entirely I am curious to hear how that is different from making injured survivors 100% mute
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I don't like undying as a perk, maybe in some base form but the problem with old undying is it cripples any other hex because it becomes a question of "is this going to be ridiculous if it can be transferred 3 times in a match?"
Our current hexs are probably fine with such a version but I would argue it changes a hex perks impact so heavily it would limit all future hexs. I also don't like paying a "hex tax" to make a single perk actually useful.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3101097#Comment_3101097
I say it was exactly the other way around, exposing how many survivors had come to overtly rely on DH.
If you were right you would regularly have survivors get utterly destroyed by the combo of Brutal Strength and STBFL, as this perks give higher numbers then the base kit buff, yet that was never the case.
Sorry I don't think i communicated my sarcasm well, i agree with you that dead hard is the impactful change not .2 and .3 ms shaved off of actions.
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They are looking at normalizing survivor audio across the board so certain survivors aren't significantly louder than others/others aren't as silent.
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It's shocking to me that a perk that had 50-80% useage across all survivors from mid-high mmr still has people defending it as a nothing perk/weak/nerfing it having no impact on the game.
It wasn't the 3/4 survivor equipped perk that has made solo queue keel over in the first 3 minutes of the game, It's .2 seconds off sprint burst injury and a .3 second faster blade wipe!
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"top mmr survivors are so rare they shouldnt even be remotely balanced around"
"Top mmr killers stomp bad survivors! We gotta stop this!!"
Make it make sense.
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For all locks breaking he might have been using the boat key adddon; it increases tp speed by 25% when not in nightfall and breaks all locked lockers when the final gen is powered. Nightfall does not change any of the dredge's animations. He still raises his hand inn the same manner as usual. He tps tremendously faster in nightfall vs usual though.
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@Alcuin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3100701#Comment_3100701
I run Bond, Kindred, and Open Handed in solo queue. I can spam an "I'm on the gen, No longer on the gen" motion whenever a teammate is within 44 metres of me and injured. Is the game supposed to be played like this? Regardless, solo survivors have to stick to gens to survive and can't be wasting time.
As far as the killer "countering" Blast Mine, you kick the gen. If Blast Mine is present, you're stunned for a short time and, then, kick it again. I'm not asking for Blast Mine to be OP, but if camping and tunneling is going to receive buffs (they both have with this update), maybe it's time to reel in perks. Specifically, gen regression perks.
Camping and Tunneling defenses should be increased and given baseline without any perks required. The stun isn't the part I'm worried about + can bring lightborn if someone really cares about that. The original post made me feel like they wanted there to be a secondary effect to blast mine comparable to eruption, that's where I feel like that would be totally fine but the effect would probably need to very weak and not very strong due to the killer, as you pointed out, having to eat it 100% of the time or choose to not kick the gen which is not realistic in some scenarios. Combined with 4 survivors potentially bringing it, I do agree that current blast mine, outside of trolling + annoying combos(blast mine on a gen + repressed alliance vs kicking killers), (blast mine + residual), (blast mine 99% gen and complete while killer stunned) blast mine is not a super glamorous/effective perk.
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Because eruption's strongest part is dodge-able and just 9% perk regression against swfs + survivors with aura perks. I can't do anything vs blast mine as a killer other than wait it out which will take at most 45 seconds. If blast mine did some crazy OP thing what exactly is a killer supposed to do to counter it and also 4 survivors could bring it? Like I'm genuinely asking what would be a suitable buff to blast mine in your opinion?
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Accessibility should always be strived towards but not at the cost of the game/killers becoming sadako tier. We could make the argument all audio cues should have a subtitle and arrow pointing to the sounds location present for deaf/hard of hearing people, but I imagine most dbd players would not like that because "footsteps" or "ghost face audio cue" with a big arrows pointing to the sounds source would butcher stealth on both sides.
The dredges darkness falls in the same category. If you tone it down to PTB levels it literally does nothing. You might as well make it change the background color of the survivors equipped perks on their screen and you would get the same impact from the PTB levels of darkness.