ByeByeQ
ByeByeQ
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Isn't Lynxi the only one left at this point?
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Everyone takes my hyperbolic question literally and ignores my entire OP.
No, Eruption obviously is not killing DbD all by itself.
But it certainly is a contributing factor in its decline.
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Undying Ruin was a really fun meta compared to what we have now.
I wish they would have actually tried to balance the game with 6.1.0 instead of just a meta shake up.
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Nevermind, I take it back.
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I kind of want to post a "stop posting stop threads" and see if it blows up too, but I won't.
It's comical how whenever anyone posts a stop thread, that thread blows up and at least 2 other threads immediately spring up on the topic.
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Pips are no longer tied to rank so pipping is a luxury that only helps you get more bloodpoints on the 13th.
They are not going to do anything about this.
Calling out Mandy is not the right approach to basically a non-issue. She has better things to do.
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The Wraith and because he's free.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289294#Comment_3289294
Isn't everything a solo queue crusher?
If anything is made not to be too strong in solo queue doesn't that end up making it quite weak against swf?
Pain Res has the same strength vs SoloQ and swf because if you know the killer has it you can counterplay it. Pain Res is probably even stronger than Eruption for regression (if the killer gets decent Scourge Hook placement) but you don't hear people complaining about it.
With Eruption, SWFs on comms can say "get off the gen, I'm going down" while SoloQs just have to eat it.
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I think it's time for another Eruption thread.
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I hate Eruption for 4 reasons and not because it is a strong perk.
- The Incapacitated status effect as a feature of a perk is an awful implementation. The other instances of Incapacitation are caused by killer powers (Victor, Slinger and Huntress' Weighted Head) and in those cases it makes perfect sense since you got shot by something.
- It has truly atrocious counterplay without comms. An injured survivor can go down in the next instant or they can loop the killer for a minute you just never know. The killer just always gets too much value vs SoloQs unless they somehow manage to finish the gen before that player goes down.
- It affects generators that have full regressed to 0%. If the gen is at 0% then the regression perk has done it's job. It shouldn't be able to kick you in the nuts 80 seconds after you started working on a dead gen as a cherry on top.
- 25 seconds is just too long. In an ADHD world it's long enough for a person to alt-tab out and forget they're even in a game of DbD.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
While we're talking about it, can we calculate the highest net BP worth individual we know of?
Currently listed on one stat site the highest is 2.4 billion earned by a player with 17k hours.
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64 characters, so I estimate it would take a somewhere between 7 and 8 billion bloodpoints.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288775#Comment_3288775
Okay, well if we exclude the pandemic from the equation, what do you think was the cause behind the sudden increase in players in March 2020, that carried on up until recently? If we are going to look at what's caused a drop in steam players in recent months it might be worth looking at what drew them in to begin with and what then changed? I personally feel like Deathslinger is just okay and not really a massive draw, but happy to be proven wrong
DbD was in its prime back then. It was probably the best time for maps in the game as Hawkins was still in the game and they hadn't gone on the flat survivor-sided map rampage yet. There was still a freshness to the game for many people back then as it hadn't been on the consoles that long. The meta of Ruin before Undying was a more fun meta that CoB/Eruption. Dead Hard might have been overpowered but it certainly was fun to use. Spine Chill wasn't nerfed so the vault build was super-strong.
Also, the RE chapter got leaked super early and that was the largest launch ever for DbD which brought many, many new players to DbD to kick off the plateau. It's a damn shame BHVR couldn't live up to the hype and retain those players.
Perhaps the pandemic did help the game peak higher, I'm not saying it didn't but my point with the last post was other games have been able to retain the players gained while DbD hasn't.
Now they're are no new horizons for DbD to see. It's on every platform and in every country it can reach.
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A better question would be: What actually is balanced in DbD? I can't think of anything.
What's unbalanced? Starting spawns, maps, multiple categories of perks, killers, loop strengths, audio volumes of each survivor, the ungodly loudness of the bloodwebs, amount of cosmetics per survivor or killer, hitboxes... and I am sure I missed some.
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I think it is a good idea. It would get killers away from the hook and that's a good thing.
One caveat: It no longer works once a survivor dies.
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@Nazzzak said:
You mention the high plateau that started March 2020, which coincides really with the start of the pandemic. Lots of businesses closed, people staying home. Life has now, in 2022, more or less started returning to normal. Less time to play video games I'd imagine overall.
You and others mention the pandemic as a cause for the drop in players, nut I am not buying that either. Many games have managed grow their player bases and maintain those numbers even though life has returned to normal. There are a more that a few examples of this but DayZ and War Thunder have the most comparable numbers.
Look at Stardew Valley! That game is nipping at DbD's heels! DbD, the viral horror asymmetrical phenomenon itself, might get surpassed in amount of players on Steam by a 2D Harvest Moon remake developed by one man.
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@Emeal said:
'I'm just asking Questions here'
Great another fearmonger doomsayer post, and people say FOMO is bad.
Ill remind you all Steam Charts figures does not incapsulate anything worthy of a whole picture, the discussions around this are so bad because people are willing to stake their education on one statistic regarding a videogame as PROOF of the Game Dying. But why? Well people need a reason to justify their belief in the importance of whatever they are unhappy about in the game. So people are grasping at straws to make their point, Last time I discussed this with someone hardheaded, I called my country's national statistics service to ask them how they do it. To sum it up most statistics are worthless alone, what you need is an after study in order to confirm things. Numbers on which bHVR keep to themselves.
So its all pointless to speculate about, only bHVR can do statistics on the real picture of things and they will do the changes needed.
Now I better get back to complaining about Dead Hard, you know the Important stuff we do here.
Is it possible that BHVR is using FOMO sales tactics as a response to their declining player base to prop up their bottom line?
Oh I'm sorry there I go asking a question again.
*robot voice* Don't ask questions. Just consume product and be excited for next product.
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Are you asking for a buff then?
She used to be WAY jankier to use before 5.5.0.
I want to see her 2nd (and 3rd) blinks count as special attacks. Something that reduces her effectiveness using perks like Starstruck and Sloppy Butcher, but doesn't make those perks completely unusable.
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Legion is not designed to always get multiple hits every frenzy and not to be uncounterable by survivors.
Consider running Never-Sleep Pills, Mural Sketch and/or Scratched Ruler. They're really cheap strong addons that will make your frenzies stronger/longer.
Also, consider getting good.
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Recently they made totems even easier to find for some reason, probably to help baby Mikaelas set their boons.
For example on the Autohaven maps there is a truck tile which can spawn a totem at the back of the truck near the window vault. Before the change the totem was tucked behind the a piece of sheet metal and was very hard to spot from the front of the truck. After the change they moved the totem out from behind the tin so you have to blind or not looking to not find it.
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@Nirgendwohin said:
as soon the winter event starts the numbers will go up agian.
Will they though? They didn't last year.
@Brokenbones said:
Steam charts doesn't factor in Epic or Console. Most people play on Console I believe
The drop in numbers does mean that player retention is somewhat down and I mean, this isn't anything new - when BHVR releases buggy unfinishes messes, (See: Binding of Kin, Forged in Fog) people stop playing until they fix it.
I assume that console numbers experience similar trends because the gameplay experience is the same if not worse. I also doubt that Epic makes up the difference for losses on other platforms.
What's new is that we're hitting a much lower low.
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@Superbeasto1974 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287551#Comment_3287551
It's like staying in a loveless marriage until someone better comes along, instead of having the stones to just go through with the divorce. 😂🤣
It's not at all like a loveless marriage because I can still have fun playing DbD and there is literally no comparable game currently.
I just know I could have so much more fun if they did DbD right, balanced maps, killers and perks and made QoL changes that would make it so we can spend more time in matches and not waste it looking for perks or doing bloodwebs.
If they did that, then I'd happily pay cash for every DLC and be much more liberal with my money because then they would have earned it.
The only thing I am going to divorce myself from is this conversation with you.
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@Superbeasto1974 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287544#Comment_3287544
Happy enough with a "crap game?" Sounds like you have pretty low standards. 😂
It's still the best asym around, which is sad.
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@Superbeasto1974 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287260#Comment_3287260
And that's what's amusing about this whole situation. You've already vilified BHVR because their product doesn't perform to your expectations (plays just fine for me, and what bugs are in the game aren't worth getting heated over), and now you're mad at their business practices...and yet HERE YOU ARE. If you think the game is crap and you hate the way BHVR does business, stop playing. Leave the community. Nobody's forcing you to be here. Why would you stay if it makes you unhappy?
I'm happy enough playing DbD until a competitor steps up and knocks it out of the park since BHVR has left the door open.
I haven't given BHVR a cent in over 16 months so I've voted with my wallet. I'm getting my money's worth now.
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@Superbeasto1974 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287245#Comment_3287245
We're comparing EA and BHVR because you have a skewed perspective of how gloriously wealthy you think BHVR is. They're a small company trying to grow, and that requires more revenue. This is hardly the dirtiest way they could've chosen. Imagine if they had tried to implement some sort of Season Pass scheme?
And you're wrong about EA and Madden. Ask any Madden player, they'll tell you: they've been copy-and-pasting that game for over a decade, and yet they make more and more off of it every year. That's what happens when you have the exclusive license to the NFL and no other market competition.
DbD could be a massive profit-generating genre-defining giant if they took more of that profit of theirs and reinvested it back into DbD and we had things like non-buggy gameplay, faster bloodwebs, a perk search bar among other things. If DbD had evolved into an actual AAA game it would be coasting along with 100k or more players on Steam Charts and then maybe it would start to compare with EA.
But instead it's still a crap game and they are trying to make as much money off it as they can before it dies. They've been taking the money and running for years now.
Comparing them to EA doesn't change anything. Just because they need more revenue doesn't give them the right to use scummy business practices. Only a company shill would defend that position.
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Anniversary cakes, party streamers and goofball non-meta gameplay.
If I don't have a nasty challenge it helps their cause too, but there is nothing they can directly do about that.
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It's their modus operandi. They implement just enough stuff so they have plausible deniability.
Meta perks hidden behind licensed DLCs? "We're not pay to win because Shrine of Secrets and the Nurse is free!"
FOMO? "We're not FOMO, they'll be back next year!"
Hacker problem? "Don't worry we put it on the roadmap after 6 years! Keep spending your money it'll be fine..."
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@Superbeasto1974 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287238#Comment_3287238
EA makes $1 billion dollars ANNUALLY off of the Madden franchise alone, and you think BHVR making $300 million is "astronomical?" EA is your Scrooge McDuck, my friend.
I said return on investment. Clearly EA invests much more into Madden than BHVR invests into DbD. BHVR made less than EA but a higher percentage of their 300 million is pure profit.
Why are we comparing BHVR to EA? It's like comparing apples to eggplants.
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@Superbeasto1974 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287225#Comment_3287225
Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot BHVR was a mega-company like EA, and they're all rolling around naked in piles of cash and lighting cigars with $100 bills. Gimme a break.
The return on investment BHVR has made from DbD has been astronomical, because it's damn near an indie quality game that they are able to charge more than a AAA price for while adding F2P monetization tactics on top.
They have to be Scrooge McDucking into pools of gold and wiping their behind with Benjamin Franklin's face.
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The only part of me that is scared of DbD is my wallet.
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@Superbeasto1974 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287154#Comment_3287154
Acquiring a studio, building a studio, and increasing your workforce involved taking on increased expenses to maintain that growth, especially when it comes to payroll. How do you think they're gonna pay for all that?
I dunno... maybe with the millions of dollars they are already raking in?
Don't even think that they have to resort to scummy monetization tactics to keep the lights on and the rent/mortgage paid. They're lining their shareholders pockets at the expense of their players.
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I think they try to appear to be listening while not actually listening. The only thing they actually listen to is harsh backlash when something is game-breaking.
They give us these forums and the surveys to keep up that appearance. I'd eat my hat if anyone can dig up a suggestion from this forum that actually got implemented.
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NOED is fine. The only thing I'd change is that if the killer hooks a survivor near the totem, then the totem would move elsewhere.
Your basekit Berserk is absolutely atrocious. You want to give killers a really oppressive haste, half-Unrelenting, Brutal Strength and 3 stacks of Save the Best for Last for free just because the generators got done with no time limit, without using a perk slot.
That's a hard no. Maybe during Endgame but not just once the gens are done, it'd be disgusting.
Do know what effect this would have on the game? Survivors, especially solos, would stop trying to save their teammates and just GTFO since a Berserk killer would be nigh-inescapable. Is that what you want?
@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
I like your new status effect idea! Your ideas are actually really good, your idea for NOED to be like Rancor wouldn't kill the perk, and the base kit ''Berserk'' status effect is really cool, to me some of the values should be increased by a little bit, like the breaking speed increased to 25%, missed cooldown attack swings by 30%, cooldown to successful attacks to 20%, leave the speed increase the way it is.
For survivors if they ever got an endgame buff just like the killers, only give them a hook speed increase maybe.
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Self-repairing generators!
Ha!
Now I've heard it all.
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A bad spawn can completely ruin a match. I had a recent game on Ormond where a rock spawned next to the shack where survivors could pass and I couldn't which created an infinite. I felt like I lost the match in an instant.
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I play a lot of SoloQ and I live on Bond.
This game just has too many perks overall, not just aura perks. We're already at 219 and they just keep adding them by the handful.
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I agree, especially when the rescuer is not even injured. A recently unhooked survivor should just not have collision for those 10 seconds.
I also react similarly to @LiveBritishReaction. It's like sigh "Ok we're doing this."
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@MeanieDeeny said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286503#Comment_3286503
How are they legitimate concerns? Please explain.
I've done enough explaining.
How about you explain how the concerns from the posters below are illegitimate.
@Lycidas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3285613#Comment_3285613
From another thread, a very detailed explanation why these tactics are "questionable" at best:
I've been seeing a surprising number of posts defending this kind of practice, while not really grasping what is actually happening with it. FOMO causes an irrational shift in prioritization by directly manipulating the availability of a purchase. This shift is something that your average person is able to maintain a rational perspective regarding, such as "i don't need it that much" or "I can wait for another chance later." The people it is designed to affect, are those with any form of impaired impulse control, or poor budgeting skills. There have been notorious GDC lectures outlining very specifically how to take advantage of these people and try to get as much money as possible out of them, with FOMO being one of the key methods. It is a known business practice that very specifically targets a vulnerable demographic.
Lets say you are faced with this situation, and have other more important obligations and are unable to make the purchase. A typical mind will think "oh well" and go without, but an affected person will start trying to readjust their budget to make it work, they may borrow money or even forgo financial obligations altogether as the need to commit to the purchase or lose out on it entirely outweighs their otherwise rational budgeting and prioritization. Its actually part of gambling addictions as well, as "the next bet can be the win that offsets all my losses" even after going into debt. It is a very real and well documented psychological effect.
The worst part is that, again, it has very minimal impact on most people. For many its not about losing the ability to purchase something like an ingame cosmetic, and they may not even see that as financially reasonable as it is. The problem is that it so very specifically preys on those who are vulnerable to the tactic, who are treated as whales (individuals who spend more than the average consumer, to make up for a lack of sales elsewhere) in the process.
Its an absolute shame how much this kind of practice is not only accepted, but even defended in the industry. There can literally be people bypassing anything from holiday gifts for loved ones to financial responsibilities such as paying their bills just to sell a few more ugly sweater model meshes and textures.
@Halloulle said:
Personally, I have three issues with it:
1) Announcing that outfits can be bought for shards after four weeks.... but then making it so that outfits are either not in store for 4 weeks or being somehow except from that announcement. I chalk that up to the notoriously poor communication and expectation management BHVR demonstrates any chance they get. (Srsly, idk how they manage to do that. It's astonishing.)
2) Having it retroactively affect items in the store.
3) It being part of business tactics that I frown upon as they target a particularly vulenrable group of people; namely those that have trouble managing money. To those defending these practises: it's not just about some people just having poor impulse control and in a normal world that just so happens to be their problem with sales and limited timed stuff and what not. It's the part where the whole sales strategy is all about taking advantage of them, exploiting them and trying to squeeze as much money out of them as possible, all the while being fully aware of and rejoicing about the vulnerability of these people. In my opinion it's - ethically - not too far off from those people who call elderly people with dementia, telling them their grandchild is in trouble and they need to send x amount of money or else something bad happens - all the while that elderly person can't even remember they don't even have grandchildren.
@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3285760#Comment_3285760
FOMO as a marketing tactic is morally questionable and specifically targeted at the vulnerable. Which, I should point out, does not just mean 'completely normal but with poor impulse control'; I mean that bad impulse control is part of a lot of mental illnesses (and, of course, can wind up in a lot of coping mechanisms for more!)
And if you think that it doesn't concern you when companies start doing things like this and it only matters to the people who're affected, then you're both being far more selfish than the people actually complaining, and really hope your mental health never takes any sort of downturn.
I really don't know how else to explain 'you should care about other people', though. It's not hard. This is a tactic that will hurt people. Maybe only a few people, who knows what DBD's player base is like. But it's going to hurt some people, and that's... fine to you, because it's a business tactic? ok.
@LittleBigSunset said:
I think what people really need to consider isn't necessarily WHAT Behaviour are doing here, but WHY. Why is this limited time cosmetic practice only just starting to be added to the game? It doesn't benefit players in any way by making cosmetics less available or to gate them off behind a limited time pay wall. Obviously, it's to capitalise on the FOMO tactic. I'm seeing a fair number of people here saying that if FOMO is a 'you' problem, that they just need to get over it and move on.
But if it were that simple, the tactic wouldn't work, nobody would buy these limited time cosmetics and BHVR would be disincentivised to continue. In fact, the opposite has happened. We saw this at Halloween and are now seeing it again for the Holidays. Because BHVR are aware that those most vulnerable to this practice, in particular those with gambling problems, budgeting, people with poor impulse control, will continue to fall prey to it., and that it is incredibly difficult to overcome such psychological problems. It's easy to say for these people to just 'not buy' when you don't understand/can't relate to the difficulties they face. Something easy for you might be very hard for them. And this is something that BHVR plans to continue to take advantage of. There is a STRONG REASON why BHVR are implementing FOMO cosmetics, and it isn't to make the game better. Defending this as a result is something I cannot understand.
Things like this are a very, very slippery slope in terms of how monetised a game can get. If we as a community stay silent on such an issue, we risk more of these 'features' getting added to the game that only serve to make BHVR more money while exploiting vulnerable individuals, not to actually make the game better. I've seen this sort of thing happen to games I used to love like Overwatch and it sucks. I'd rather not let DBD (as much as I to be honest hate playing it) fall into the same money pit.
Preying on the vulnerable to increase profits is clearly a legitimate concern, at least in my opinion.
You think it "really is simple…buy it or don’t" but for some people it isn't.
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I think one way that the Entity could express themself more is with pallets. I've always like to think that pallets are one of the few "weapons" the Entity gives to survivors so that trials might be more entertaining for the Entity to observe. As such pallets could be imbued with a dark energy, have claws growing from them, become more animated when a survivor or the killer comes near, or other possibilities. They could get really creative and make pallets amazing. Instead they gave us these drab grey pallets that get lost in the "fog" and consider it an improvement.
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I am a serial SoloQ and if I had any friends I doubt I'd ever even admit to playing this game unless they brought it up first.
Telling a friend that this game is fun is akin to tell them smoking is healthy.
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@Blueberry said:
I’d rather play against anything than a deathslinger.
But is he boring?
Besides having a 10 answer limit I didn't think to put Deathslinger on the list because I certainly don't find getting shot with a gun boring.
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From a per person standpoint, maybe but from a per dollar generated standpoint, it's not true. These vulnerable people are much more likely to overspend and be whales much to their own detriment. Companies are willing to sacrifice sales from normal people and exploit these vulnerable people because they make more money that way.
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I voted for the other group. I don't remember these outfits being so awful from their concept art in the voting, but I am not even slightly tempted by any of the cosmetics in this winter collection.
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For every loud leaving player like this there are probably a hundred people who silently leave.
DbD will hit a 3 year low on Steam Charts early next year. It's inevitable. DbD has been made more boring and less varied in 2022 while the player base continues to wait for improvements to the netcode, anti-hack and other QoL changes like a perk search bar or faster bloodwebs. After 6 years of waiting, it's getting easier and easier to believe these necessary changes may never come and now we are seeing devoted players finding the will to kick their DbD addiction.
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@BougieBlackChick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3285473#Comment_3285473
Im not understanding the whole issue. Trying to piece it together from all these posts is confusing. So what exactly is BHVR doing and what is the issue with it?
Up until this recently passed Halloween DbD didn't have time-limited sales on cosmetics and once they released cosmetics in the store they were there to stay.
Time-limited sales are a method (in some opinions scummy) to increase sales on the affected items by inducing FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) in their customers.
That's not really that bad in and of itself (at least in my opinion) but they are not just applying it to new cosmetics. They are taking old cosmetics that in some cases have already been in the store for years and turning them into time-limited, seasonal items. For example, the ugly sweaters.
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I doubt a comic book character will come to DbD. The popular comic book characters are already licensed to other video game companies. Other characters are probably too obscure or not horror-related to be considered.
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If the community doesn't speak up about shady practices then that's basically giving BHVR the green light to try even worse practices.
So to them I say: Please continue.
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The Knight is a perfect example of BHVR's failing approach to DbD. Somehow they seem to think that aesthetics matter more than function. This is evident in most things they have created recently. The last 5 maps they've made or reworked all look amazing but play awfully.
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@BarnesFlam said:
You will get those sweaters for free during the Bone Chill event. Then they will be unavailable to obtain until December 2023 when they will return to the in-game store available for cells only. And they will disappear again. Until December 2024. And then... Milk.
Is your post entirely speculative predictions or did they drop some information about the sweaters?
I can't find out anything from their Twitter, news and some unofficial sources I check.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284625#Comment_3284625
Then don't vote for it, if you don't think the quality warrants it.
That doesn't translate to it somehow being disqualified even though it clearly meets the criteria for being nominated.
I disagree. DbD would be a contender for an anti-labor of love award to be completely honest.
Looking at the list of award nominees I don't see DbD there. Good.