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Have you fully considered the effect this would have on the game?
SWF would just make sure all totems are cleansed before the last gen pops or at least know where every totem is so they can quickly cleanse NOED. A full SWF would always bring Detective's Hunch and a map or other ways to defeat NOED. So it wouldn't affect them nearly so much.
SoloQs would play more selfishly in Endgame. Many would open the gate and leave straight away.
I just don't see how this would be a positive change for the game.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298258#Comment_3298258
Game concluding by shutdown is not natural end. Killer not allowing bleedout and other survivor not doing objectives is hostage taking - from both killer and survivor. There is 0 progress. Actually breaking this situation is progressing the game and having it come to natural end (everyone dying and killer winning the game) instead of waiting for server shutdown - which of course is NOT natural end of game.
If any of the other 2 players decided to actually do objective, the game would move on. As that's not the case, you and killer both are hostage taking the game. Also the game will not be just a bit longer. You as a survivor will still die after an hour as server shuts down and entity eats you. You are just trapping other player in game without him having any say in it. There's nothing more to discuss here.
Also as last survivor you can still do a gen after some time and hide right after you finish it. If game would progress, there would be 0 need/wanting to help break hostage taking. It might actually force killer to let me bleed out (to my full satisfaction). Just do not hold the game hostage for an hour.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298288#Comment_3298288
If you + killer hold me on the ground for longer then the actual normal part of game, then sorry. You are holding me hostage and I will try to untangle it any way possible. Should you do gen sneakily, there would be no need to rat you out. Do your part and force killer to leave me bleed out.
How in the name of the Entity are you being held on the ground for longer than the actual normal part of the game? It's a 4 minute bleed out timer. Unless the killer snowballed extremely early in the game you're not on the ground that long.
The only way that the game ends in a shutdown in this scenario is if the survivors hide forever refusing to do gens and try to outlast each other which holds the killer hostage. There is no possible way for the killer to hold the survivors hostage here because the survivor has all the choices in this scenario. They either end up bleeding out and if the killer puts them back on their feet the survivor is free to do whatever they wish. They are not held hostage in any way. If that survivor hops on a gen at that point it throws it back in the killer's face.
You are not being held hostage and the only person breaking any rules here is you. You can justify it however you like but it doesn't change that fact.
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DS is currently being used as an offensive perk to "recharge" Dead Hard through it's ability to remove the Deep Wound status. I find it always paired with Dead Hard and usually the survivor does every toxic thing to actually try to get the killer to tunnel them and also they stack other second chance perks like Off the Record and Adrenaline. Buffing DS would buff these players.
DS needs to be reworked if it is actually meant to be used as an anti-tunneling perk.
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I've been saying from Day 1 that prestige should not be shown in pre-match lobbies and only shown on the post-match tally screen. That would make prestige more like "Oh that was a P100 Feng. Neat." rather than "Oh snap a P100 Feng. Must dodge or put on the try hard build." They hid ranks and grades in pre-match lobbies before for the same reasons.
I only play my P69 Jeff if I am playing with friends with high prestige or the rare time I might switch to Jeff if I land in a high prestige lobby. Most of the time I'm playing my P3 Rebecca. I agree that it sucks not being able to play my main.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297796#Comment_3297796
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294013#Comment_3294013
Survivor not doing any objective and waiting for the game to shut down is hostage taking. No discussion there. If I am being taken hostage, I will do everything in my power to break it. That's showing killer where the other survivor is (to break hostage taking) or to DC. No other options are there for me.
Your teammate waiting for you to bleed out is not hostage taking. The killer slugging you and attempting to prevent you from bleeding out in this situation is not hostage taking either.
If the killer slugs you for the 4k and searches for the other survivor for 3.5 minutes and then picks you up and drops you repeatedly to put you back on your feet and prevent you from bleeding out then the correct play is to do gens and force the killer to choose between leaving you be or killing you. The incorrect play is to rat out your teammate.
Showing the killer where the other survivor is is not breaking a hostage situation.
Perhaps before the killer slugged for the 4k you learned through aura perks and your time hanging on hooks that the other survivor was a creeping Claudette who never touched a gen all game. Maybe then you could be justified to rat them out, because they didn't help the team at all the entire game and don't deserve to escape.
But if it was a helpful teammate who tried their hardest but it wasn't enough and in the end decided to hide and let you bleed out for a shot at hatch, then you should definitely give them the opportunity.
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@tippy2k2 said:
As a killer, I have a few "rules" for when I give out Hatch
- Do I feel like it? This is the most important rule for obvious reasons. I usually do feel like it but there are times when I need to get a challenge done or for whatever reason, I'm just not really feeling all that merciful.
- Did the survivor BM during the match? If they did, they do not get the hatch, regardless of whether they fulfill every other rule
- Did they impress me? During the trial, I try to keep in mind that if I have the option, X person is the one I want to allow to live. Usually it's because they impressed me in a chase with a slick move or they did something incredibly altruistic for the good of the team
- The Lottery. If the survivor didn't do anything impressive that made me decide they deserve the Hatch, the last shot they have is what I call The Lottery. Basically once I down them and start moving to the hook, if on the way to the hook I hear the hatch, I'll drop them at it instead of hooking them. Basically dumb luck for the survivor
As a survivor, I don't care in either direction. I certainly won't say No to a hatch if the killer deems me worthy and/or takes pity on me but I don't ever expect it
Basically this.
Sometimes it also happens where it is dubious if I can even manage to hook the survivor and in those scenarios I usually will let the survivor go if it ends the game faster.
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Neither is holding the game hostage here.
There are currently 3 common scenarios that can be considered holding the game hostage:
- A killer or survivor body blocking a survivor in a corner and keeping them there indefinitely.
- Survivors just hiding and refusing to do gens to try to draw the game out as long as possible.
- Somehow this happens a lot when 2 survivors are left as they try to outlast each other for hatch and somehow that's perfectly fine.
- 3gen scenarios where the killer only holds the 3gen and refuses to hook survivors.
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It's an emergency! Call 911!
Nothing is an emergency as far as DbD is concerned. Usually, they take weeks to fix even the most game-breaking of bugs. Their hottest of hotfixes are cold enough to make you see your breath.
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I think the Knight is actually a perfect failure.
His power lets him abuse the 3gen strategy better than anyone else and perfectly showcases how bad the newest meta is. Even if a Knight doesn't do that he's still no fun in chase.
The new map is also a perfect failure with a bad main building, horrible light making tracking scratch marks far more difficult than it should be, a lack of line of sight blockers and launched broken with pallets on top of that.
A perfect showcase of the incompetence of BHVR.
They spent more time making sure those shirtless Vittorio skins would sell than actually making Forged in Fog a playable chapter.
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Considering DbD has been on the Windows Store for more than 4 years now, I'd say it's fairly safe to say no.
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Another Eruption thread.
I might as well post in it while I wait for my incapacitation to wear off.
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I like to use them to try to signal Batman to come help me. Never had it work though.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297492#Comment_3297492
Ragequit and resignation are a semantic hair apart, and both have the exact same effect on the game. If there was a 'concede' button...firstly, that would be fantastic, and secondly that would be a resignation. Outside of hostage situations, when you click 'ready', you're agreeing to play the match out. Because not doing so basically ruins the game for 4 other people.
All I can say is this much.
I almost never see a single quitter in games where I, as the killer, am losing.
I almost never see a quitter in games where I, as a survivor, am winning.
This also holds true of the games I see streamers playing.
Why do you think that is?
Without the 'concede' option, ragequit and resignation are not a semantic hair apart. A player can get see an unwinnable situation (like a 3gen vs a Knight with CoB, Eruption and Overcharge) and can make a reasonable decision to DC, use the penalty time to spend bloodpoints and move on to hopefully a more fun match. But to you it appears to be a ragequit and you assume most or all of DCs are emotional decisions.
"I almost never see a single quitter in games where I, as the killer, am losing. I almost never see a quitter in games where I, as a survivor, am winning."
Well I have seen DCs in those situations. Had a couple yesterday. It was definitely odd. One was halfway through a game where I was getting destroyed as a Doc.
Anyway this particular discussion and thread derailment with you has run its course. o/
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297484#Comment_3297484
Yeah, I did. But okay, let me try again.
In a nutshell - people don't quit games because there's some balance issue or a specific perk being used. People quit because they're losing the game, and because there is nothing to stop them.
You don't know or speak for everyone. And not everyone is the same. People DC for different reasons.
Not every DC is a ragequit. They can be resignations.
And believe it or not, unintentional DCs do happen.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297353#Comment_3297353
Well yes. Letting survivors win more would reduce DCs by reducing losing games, but that would be hardly fair to killers. Why punish killers for survivors behaving badly?
And no, it's not 'code' and it's not 'Eruption'. Want to know how I know?
I play a lot of DbD. I play maybe 60/40 killer/survivor these days.
On killer, I generally run pretty fun, memey builds, and occasionally switch to something nastier if I'm against an SWF or just a tough looking team. I also bring flans on about 50% of my killers.
I get a DC, suicide or AFK in about a third of my games. That's about the best case scenario - it can be much worse, but seldom much better.
The funny thing - those quitters happen whether I'm playing soft or hard, bring flans or no flans. They'll happen whether I'm playing Artist, Hag or Wraith.
Because it has nothing to do with what I bring - the second it turns out that it might be a loss, or just a difficult game - boom, quitters.
Games with zero DCs? Games I'm losing.
I'm sorry were you replying to me? Because you didn't actually respond to anything in my post that you quoted.
I said "reduce" not "eliminate." You do know the difference, yes?
Anyway back to the topic at hand, Wraith is fine.
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It's sad that they let this crap continue to stay in the game after 6 years.
I made a good suggestion on how to easily fix this in the Feedback forum, but of course it's getting no attention or replies.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297187#Comment_3297187
I completely disagree, because I've played a lot of multiplayer games over the years and any game that doesn't have pretty severe penalties for quitting is completely ruined by them.
I mean, off the top of my head:
- WoW's dungeon finder being almost impossible to do anything on because the second you encountered anything even slightly challenging, or someone came in without being massively overgeared for the instance, you'd have someone quit.
- League of Legends, before they added LeaverBuster.
- Any Starcraft 2 custom multiplayer map inevitably has to add some sort of makeup mechanic for quitters, because...every single game.
I could go on, but basically...Google any team based multiplayer game, and it either has penalties for quitters or massive problems with quitters.
I don't accept that people who DC/suicide/AFK are doing it because there's something wrong with the game. Outside of rare hacking/hostage situations, DCs are entirely because people will always do this if there's nothing to stop them.
Also - blaming bloodweb times for DCs is absolutely bizarre.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297219#Comment_3297219
That's not really what I'm talking about. Be it healthier or not healthier, there was at least one QQ thread about Ruin on the front page at any given time.
Is Eruption strong? Sure. But things can be strong, and it's pretty damned unfair to nerf every killer perk that is slightly above average while letting Dead Hard rule the game for years and only nerfing survivor perks when they are literally game-breaking.
I'm sick and tired of stuff being nerfed because of the vanishingly small minority of players that complain incessantly on the forums. None of the threads are even really feedback or suggestions, they are mostly 'I lost to this, so nerf it into the ground'.
Yes, as you can probably tell, this gets on my nerves. Because nerfing that perk doesn't end it - it just shifts it to the next most commonly used killer perk.
Your next bit would be fine, if *and only if* BHVR balanced killer perks and survivor perks the same. The game being less perk reliant would be an interesting direction, but it would also probably make the game a lot blander.
You are welcome to your opinion.
When I said "if those core issues were addressed [DCs] would happen less often" I consider it a statement of fact, not opinion.
For one, DbD is coded so poorly that unintentional DCs happen far more often than they should.
I am not even going to elaborate further than that because encouraging negative behavior like DCing is against forum rules and I think some of my points could be interpreted as breaking that rule.
To address your defense of Eruption, it isn't just a problem that Eruption is strong. It's a problem that Eruption got buffed and other slowdown perks got overnerfed. It's that Eruption is top of the meta and also that Pop and Ruin got dumpstered. If killers want to use the best slowdowns they are forced into about 4 different options which is awful for match variety and leads to more complaints because players are seeing Eruption every other game now.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297137#Comment_3297137
Oh, boy, where do I start here?
- Eruption isn't old moris and keys, which I've never defended.
- Eruption is strong against solos, but completely fine against SWFs. And this game cannot be balanced around solo play.
- Let's be honest here though. BHVR nerfs Eruption due to the forum QQ, as they always seem to with killer perks. Do you think that this stops the complaining, or will people just move on to whatever the new meta killer perk becomes? We both know the answer to that.
- Mass DCs/suicides/AFKs are absolutely the biggest problem in the game - they cause a ton of losses that should not have happened and inflate kill rates to an insane level. I run weird perks, play weird killers and generally bring flans. I don't tunnel or camp outside of EOGC. I still see a suicide or a DC in...honestly, maybe 30%+ of my games. How is that not a problem?
- Wraith is a 'C' tier killer. He's incredible at stomping newer players, but experienced teams can run rings around him. With the right flashlight addons, you can burn him before he decloaks.
- He's not Trapper or Knight levels of bad, but he's still very mediocre.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297155#Comment_3297155
- Yes. But that's been the game since it's inception, and probably not something you can change. Like...how would you even fix that? Let survivors see killer perks/offerings and vice versa?
- Maps...sure? But I'd say that for every time I lose because I got sent to Badham, I win 3 games because the first person I downed either suicides, goes AFK or DCs.
- MMR will never be perfect, but it's a million times better than RBMM. Yes, there are some weird matches here and there - but these tend to be a product of a long queue time or lobby dodges.
- Dodge any 'full' lobbies you get dropped into, or lobbies where someone leaves and you'll see what I mean.
- MMR was a little bit more consistent before the changes, but people were complaining about queue times.
- Again, most of the time you can't blame DCs on anything besides players sulking and being BM. Again, I'm probably the nicest, fairest killer you'll run into all day, and I still get DCs, AFKs and suicides out the wazoo. This is a matter of there being either only really petty penalties or none at all for quitting and spoiling the game.
DCs are a symptom of bigger core problems that DbD has and that's why DC penalties are pretty light compared to other games.
Yes DCs would still happen if those core issues were addressed but they would happen less often and then could be punished more harshly.
Bloodwebs taking so damn long is even a contributing factor to the DC rate since players can just spend bloodpoints to wait out the DC penalty, time they have to waste anyway.
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@Xord said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296907#Comment_3296907
*publicly admits to be unable to win without abusing a gameplay exploit*
*tells other to git good*
hummmmmmm
Point out where I admit to abusing an exploit.
Like it or not, DS is in a good place now and it is still seeing above average usage rates.
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@OmniSkeptic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296796#Comment_3296796
If you’re going to expend the effort to refer to a fallacy by name, you might find it prudent to use the term correctly. Any old insult is not an argumentum ad hominem. I would have to be dismissing some substantive point on the basis that you’re an idiot for that to be true. Instead, I am dismissing you as being an idiot due to some substantive point. Not fallacious.
You are entitled to those opinions, but they don’t help fix fundamental issues in the game that at some point need to be addressed.
What does your idea actually fix?
What fundamental issues do they address?
How does it improve the game?
Why is graph 2 more ideal than graph 1?
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@Predated said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296821#Comment_3296821
Even under that logic, I dont see an issue with DS being a 5 second stun or locking a mobility killer in place for a bit. People use DH in that way to get some use out of DS, not the other way around.
Besides, its completely optional to not tunnel there. There is 3 other survivors.
We dealt with an overpowered nasty Decisive Strike for almost 5 years before they nerfed it in 6.1.0.
Now that I've had time to experience life with this new 3 second DS I am glad they overnerfed it. Even at 3 seconds it is still a meta perk for many players.
With new DS it takes skill to get value from it. Make sure you go down in a place where 3 seconds is actually useful to you.
In other words, get good.
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Bodyblocking other players for extended periods of time should not just be a reportable and bannable offense. It should not be possible.
If 2 or more players in are in close proximity without moving for 30 seconds, then all involved survivors lose collision and can move freely for 3 seconds. A simple solution.
It blows my mind that this game is over 6 years old and a simple fix like this hasn't been implemented.
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Decisive Strike is still a problem perk because of how Dead Hard was reworked. Now players, usually with entirely meta chase builds, are trying to be entirely offensive (often in every sense of the word) to entice killers to tunnel them and then are using DS to get rid of their mend and "recharge" their Dead Hard.
Decisive Strike is not an anti-tunnel perk. It is an offensive perk. It cannot be buffed without removing this synergy with Dead Hard.
If it is meant to be an actual anti-tunnel perk, it needs to be reworked.
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I've never run Shattered Hope aside from for some archive challenge.
It's a bad band-aid fix for a problem that shouldn't exist.
Boons should take longer to set with each setting, so moving boons or resetting snuffed boons takes a longer time investment.
- 1st boon: 14 seconds (unchanged)
- 2nd boon: 21 seconds
- 3rd boon: 28 seconds, etc.
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@OmniSkeptic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296743#Comment_3296743
It's possible your reading comprehension sucks and my idea is not fully fleshed out. In fact, I'd say that's exactly what's going on here. Yes, the last survivor having an easier time is a downside of the suggestion because it doesn't align with the ideal game state. That's not a contradiction. Overall the suggestion meets the line better, and meets the line at more important points, than the existing system.
The ideal game state is pretty clearly something approximately balanced throughout the whole game, but given that's virtually impossible due to the intrinsic nature of permanently diminishing objects like pallets, generators, and survivor's themselves, one side is going to have to start stronger and get weaker as time goes on. In this case the survivors start strong and happen to get exponentially weaker as time goes on with the exception of the band-aid hatch. We're trying to smoothen that curve out.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296762#Comment_3296762
I would say so, at the very least saying that's what we should be aiming for right now. One for getting hooked, one for unhooking, one for generators. 2v1 sure isn't the template, the moment you unhook the killer has knowledge of where every player on the map is and that generators are not progressing.
You again start with an ad hominem attack (attacking my reading comprehension again) and continue to argue in bad faith.
Your idea would not significantly improve gameplay. It would not make the the game more enjoyable or more balanced.
Your idea is difficult to implement. It would require significant changes to base game mechanics and reworks of several perks. It does not provide enough upside to justify the effort required to make the changes.
Your idea, the presentation of it and your defense of it all suck.
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I'd have to say the swing potential of Dead Hard is still extremely frustrating, especially in that first chase of the game. A killer can take a long chase against a good survivor and spend a minute to finally get a sliver of an opportunity for what should be a downing hit on a survivor only for them to Dead Hard, tank the hit, and get somewhere safe where the killer (especially an M1 killer) has to invest often too much time to get the down. This chase extension can often lead to 3 gens popping in the distance and the killer has yet to get their first hook.
It can turn what could be a "Finally! I can get some pressure!" moment into an "I've just lost this entire match" or even worse "I have to camp this survivor to have a chance at getting a kill" moment.
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@OmniSkeptic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296713#Comment_3296713
I'm not contradicting myself, you're just struggling with reading comprehension. I never said that the "ideal" graph is what my suggestion matches. You came up with that yourself. What I said is that my suggestion is closer to the ideal graph than the current game is, which it is. The image is relevant because whatever we replace the current system with should be moving towards the ideal graph and we need to all agree on that.
Currently, killers are incentivized to slug the last two people because every moment the second-to-last survivor is bleeding out is another second the killer can look for the last remaining person without worrying they will go through the hatch. Therefore, the worse the hatch is for the survivor the less likely the killer is going to slug. So I agree that more killers would be incentivized to slug the second-to-last survivor because the hatch is worse for them than it was before.
But a truly optimal killer currently always slugs every game. It is only through boredom that they currently don't. This is not a problem with fundamental exit gate mechanics, it's a fundamental problem with downed survivors being "alive" even though they're really already dead. It's not a problem with exit gates, it's a problem of slugging. Someone needs to propose an alternative patch to fix slugging directly rather than by doing things like changing the balance of the hatch to deal with slugging.
You can keep the existing MMR system, where a survivor that escapes alone is not considered winning.
Don't insult my reading comprehension when you are trying to push a not fully fleshed out idea.
Your first graph presents the data point for 1 survivor remaining on the balanced line and your "ideal" graph moves that data point to the killer side of that line while your suggestion clearly buffs that last survivor's chances of survival.
That is a clear contradiction. "my suggestion is closer to the ideal graph than the current game is" is an outright lie in relation to that data point.
I also don't agree that your "ideal" graph actually is ideal and you'll have a hard time getting a consensus on what the ideal graph even should be. DbD is almost too random for any such graph to even be relevant.
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@OmniSkeptic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296685#Comment_3296685
I don't have stats on the current endgame collapse but I don't think it's that far off from 50%. Hatch is slightly killer favoured by Killers having increased movement speed, but that's made up for by whatever percentage survivors end up opening the exit gate instead.
I don't think the suggestion creates the "ideal" graph but it's a lot closer than what we currently have. I agree that the last survivor would have much better odds to escape, but seeing as how we're supposed to be discouraging 0k-4k and encouraging 2k-3k that's an acceptable loss to me if it means 2 remaining survivors actually have a reliable chance to escape together and we're smoothing out that graph.
So now you're contradicting yourself. It's really hard to have a discussion about your idea when your imagery is misleading and does not reflect your suggestions.
Even if the current survival rate of last-remaining survivors is 50% (I'm betting it's closer to 40%) usually that's a hatch escape which doesn't affect the MMR of the killer or survivor. They essentially had a draw in terms of MMR and the killer gets full credit for a 3k.
If you delete the hatch, and the killer skillfully murders 3 survivors with 5 gens left and the last survivor exits via the gate the game counts that as a "win" for that survivor and the killer would get on 2 kills of MMR gain.
This would be bad for the game and result in more slugging for the 4k as less killers would take their chances with the hatch.
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@bm33 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295275#Comment_3295275
You said you "hadn't realized that the gates wouldn't be open for this End-Endgame Collapse happening." which I took to mean when you came up with your idea you had planned the doors would automatically open.
I meant it to mean that the Endgame Collapse would start similar to if the killer stomped the hatch at precisely 30 minutes game time. The hatch would still spawn once only 1 survivor remained in the match, I don't see why that should change.
Never in DbD have the gates opened without having a killer or survivor open them, so that's a pretty raw assumption to make.
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First of all, your first graph is inaccurate because the killer is generally favored when one survivor remains because they have a better chance to find the hatch when it spawns (faster movement, no hiding required) and defending the gates once the hatch is closed generally favors the killer too. (The survivor has no chance to open a gate if they spawn close together.)
I don't think your suggestions produce your "ideal" second graph as an exit gate just popping open when the second-last survivor dies would actually give the survivor better odds to survive than the mechanics currently present in the game. The killer can't close a gate and most killers would not be able to stop a healthy survivor within 50m of an open gate from escaping.
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If they could implement comeback mechanics that were balanced for both sides and make it fun and rewarding, I'd be all for it.
But this is BHVR we're talking about and nothing is well-implemented or fully realized so I have a miniscule they could pull off good comeback mechanics. Also they can't sell it as a DLC and there are only 2 things that motivate BHVR; money and extreme backlash.
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She eats spleens. Her breath alone would curdle milk.
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295311#Comment_3295311
Or just make eruption need a skillcheck to proc like overcharge
That would make Eruption too similar to Overcharge and how would you tell the difference?
We already have Overcharge and Oppression as that type of skill check perk, we don't need more.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295274#Comment_3295274
"there is no "Should I bother kicking this gen?" decision."
Actually that is a very smart game change to reverse the old mindset : I do not have gen perks therefore kicking gens is worthless.
"If a gen hits zero it should not longer be affected by Eruption."
No - the whole point is that it is a trap you set on a kicked gen.
"Pop was great, but it's a perk on a free character so it can't stay meta... just like Undying and Ruin. If you want meta slowdowns you have to buy Freddy, Sadako and Nemesis"
Yea this is really disgusting. Only one of Pinhead's perks has been in the shrine. Another was up for a vote but the community said no.
If a generator hits zero, then the regression perk has already done its job.
Eruption should not be able to stay on a dead gen, have a survivor come up to it and start working on it while the killer gets looped for 90 seconds and still have it work on that gen.
If there was some way to tell that the dead gen was affected by Eruption (it could stay sparking) it wouldn't be nearly so bad. As it is now it is just a hidden, very frustrating and nigh-uncounterable cherry on top that gives it far too much synergy with Overcharge and Call of Brine.
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@stvnhthr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295391#Comment_3295391
No he hit me and the survivor unhooking me with a bottle, it hit the hook, not us. So as soon as I got off hook I was in a gas cloud he tried to get the person who unhooked me so I got between them and pushed him back, blocking his progress forward. He swung hit me, I lit up white showing the endurance hit took place and I went down with 3/4 of the endurance status left.
So he hit you twice then? Endurance can only tank 1 hit.
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A cheap and sleazy way is to do a farming game with the survivors and let them win then they'll let you get some grabs when it's clear you're friendly.
I know that's how I got it done because getting 2 grabs in one game is rare and difficult.
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@stvnhthr said:
So on this build what is the perk or add-on that counters bt?
I don't think any of the perks or addons did it.
Did he hit you directly with a bottle and when he did that did you turn white?
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I never tried that on Clown, might have to give it a go. I doubt it's intended though and is probably an exploit. Clown bottles are funky. I know hitting the obsession directly with a clown bottle can cost 2 STBFL stacks and any direct bottle hit can cost PWYF stacks.
Bubba can often trump basekit BT if he's right up the survivor's tailpipe and can mange to get 2 hits with the chainsaw with the same sweep.
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I think Eruption (and Overcharge but it is not as big of a deal) should not affect gens that have regressed to zero.
It would create acceptable counterplay to Eruption where if a gen has almost regress to zero the survivor could wait for it to hit zero and then work on it safely. Even with this counterplay the killer is still getting good value from Eruption but at least there'd be some counterplay.
It also would make it so killers don't just mindlessly kick gens whenever they can and they have to deal with the "Should I kick this gen?" question that killers not running Eruption have to contend with.
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Well it's been 20 minutes... Are you done? I bet you aren't.
These slow bloodwebs suck.
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I win enough games as a SoloQ to easily make it to Grade Iridescent I long before reset. I don't track how many games I play or win. I'd estimate I escape 30-40% of the time.
Bond really helps.
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@bm33 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295052#Comment_3295052
If doors automatically opened after 30 minutes for the remaining survivors killers would flip out. Good punishment for 3 gen stall but there's no way that wouldn't get a crazy amount of backlash.
I'm for shorter matches (I said before just end in draw if players really want to stall for 30 minutes) BUT the things that stall the matches in the first place need to be adjusted first because 30 minute stall builds would become more common if they went forward with this. Right now an hour match is a deterrent to doing a stall match because like you said, "no one wants an hour match," but 30 minutes won't seem so bad so it will be more appealing.
Where did I suggest the doors open automatically?
You really have just been trolling me this entire time haven't you?
I am such a gullible moron.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295087#Comment_3295087
-"Now I am afraid to tap a gen at the beginning of a game to check for Ruin because if the gen has a smidgeon of progress on it a killer can come by and trap the gen with Eruption and it will remain after the gen hits zero and never expire"
You might hate that but that's actually a very healthy change for the game. The gens still fly too fast however.
The problem with the new meta is that SWF fares so much batter against it than solo players. Pop worked against both equally. I often played against SWF teams and would run by a gen someone had to say 40%. I stopped chase vs someone popped the gen and then continued the chase. By the time I hooked that survivor (preferably near that generator) the generator might be to 60% so I just would pop it again.
Then I could camp that gen for just a bit and would be down to ~20% progress. Those were Good times.
"The new meta really sucks."
Yes it does. You basically need to use more gen regression perks than ever before even though they made gens take +10 seconds. The real problem is that almost all of the gen regression is countered if someone touches a generator after you kick it.
That was one of the things that made pop way more interesting to use was because the regression was an instant chase reward.
"but that's actually a very healthy change for the game. The gens still fly too fast however."
I disagree. It makes it so a killer always gets value from Eruption and in fact the less progress a gen has the more likely they are to get Eruption value. It makes so killers can mindlessly kick gens, there is no "Should I bother kicking this gen?" decision.
If a gen hits zero it should not longer be affected by Eruption. I think that's the first change they should make to Eruption.
That one change alone would reduce the effectiveness of this 1 hour 3gen strategy the current meta enables.
I agree that old Pop was great, but it's a perk on a free character so it can't stay meta... just like Undying and Ruin. If you want meta slowdowns you have to buy Freddy, Sadako and Nemesis. I'm surprised they didn't destroy Pain Res more completely since it's an Artist perk.
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To get a 48 hour ban you have disconnected from 7 games very recently.
This is the system working as intended and your cheap internet is not a valid excuse.
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If you look at many addons for killers and even item addons there are many that seem to have a power level that don't match up with their rarity. Many killers have some amazing brown rarity addons that really should be more rare but killers can use them every game if they choose to.
I like to play some Legion myself and their FJSJ Bracelet (brown) and the Never-Sleep Pills (yellow) are my favorite addons. This combo often leads to 5th hit downs.
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@Sycamore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295091#Comment_3295091
Myers can stalk other people (or worse be fed) and then come and tombstone you without ever having stalked you.
So? You chose to play a 1v4 asymmetrical game, go play Killer or go play another game that's 1v1 instead?
Tier 3 Myers vaults faster so he can't just be looped like any other M1 killer.
Glad to see you know that much, not a complaint any player since 2020 has ever had. Especially seeing how Myers is considered one of the weakest killers in the game. The best answer here is "Get good". Literally.
Myers still gets a hook if a survivor jumps in a locker.
It's not how the add-on is intended. Why even bother running the add-on when you can stalk faster without it, and then play just as normal? What is the point of the add-on at that point? That's right there is none, because it's an exploit. Not a counter. It's an exploit that makes it when a Killer runs an add-on - handicap him instead of it's intended purpose.
Please find a source and share it here that confirms your view of how the addon is intended to be used or anything that confirms that getting into a locker to counter a tombstone is an exploit.
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@Sycamore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295081#Comment_3295081
It takes a long time for Myers to get tier 3 this way to begin with. Deny him from stalking you. A skill you should already of had at this point, but clearly don't because you base your entire gameplay on free hand-outs like exploits like these. Why learn how to play around an mechanic when you can ignore it entirely? If Myers can get his Tier 3, you can still run him like a m1 killer. Which again. Imagine being good enough at the game to not rely entirely on getting hit at least once to escape a Killer, why bother learning how to play the game, when you were taught entirely on free handouts to that point?
- Myers can stalk other people (or worse be fed) and then come and tombstone you without ever having stalked you.
- Tier 3 Myers vaults faster so he can't just be looped like any other M1 killer.
- Myers still gets a hook if a survivor jumps in a locker.
It's not an exploit and is working as intended.
I earned the Evil Incarnate achievement the hard way back in the day. It took me about 5 games and I did it without complaint.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295038#Comment_3295038
-"DbD is on its way to a 3 year low for number of players."
- Game is 6 years old (lot of games are long dead by this time)
- They changed almost all the big meta perks (which would drive some people to quit who were on the fence)
- MMR sucks. Literally everyone hates the implementation.
- There are no new game modes.
- There are two viable killers across all maps that can handle SWF teams.
- Items are in a terrible state of balance (See the video otz made)
- Efficient play makes both sides miserable.
- We need a complete rework of most of the map reworks. Seriously it's dumb that 4/5 of the farm maps are survivor sided. Crow & garden maps should just be turned off indefinitely. Reskin stranger things map and give us that back. All maps should be 9000m² or all killers should have a "sprint" movement activation with "E" that comes back after 45 seconds and is designed to rapidly move them across the map.
- Most loops are completely unfair for the majority of the killer cast so either we need fewer pallets per map or killers like pig should be able to dash attack and break the pallet. Imagine if Michael Myers could break pallets by swinging at them when in T3! To make this issue worse : Legion, Michael Myers , any potential future killer with a power movement adjustment through windows and Wesker got nerfed so they can't benefit from : fire up, Superior Anatomy, Bamboozle, etc to move through windows faster. Any blanket nerf that just moves "low rank" killers down a notch is just really really bad design.
- DBD has no real competition so they keep one side elated and the other side just barely miserable enough to keep playing. Otz is more frustrated than ever about playing killer with this patch that is supposed to be killer sided.
I could go on.....
I don't think this low would be so bad if 6.1.0 actually tried to balance DbD and not just shake up the meta.
The old meta was just more interesting. I miss searching for Undying Ruin totems, I actually did enjoy searching for them and I ran Inner Strength.
Now I am afraid to tap a gen at the beginning of a game to check for Ruin because if the gen has a smidgeon of progress on it a killer can come by and trap the gen with Eruption and it will remain after the gen hits zero and never expire.
The new meta really sucks.
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@Sycamore said:
Honestly I see the locker thing as an exploit, and should be reportable. Like they know what they are doing, you know what they are doing, and that isn't how the add-on is intended. They need to add a mori animation for Shape pulling a survivor from a locker. It could be a horrifying animation of Shape just stabbing them through the locker door.
Myers has the ability to just straight up murder people and there should be no counterplay at all?
Just because there is an achievement involved?
Where on the addon does it say "With this addon you can murder all the survivors and there is nothing they can do?"
Achievements are supposed to be earned not handed out like participation trophies.
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@Deathlymusic_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294779#Comment_3294779
You are wild, people would greed the pallets no matter the number of pallets in 2018. I'm saying we need to drop pallet numbers again to encourage that gameplay. Also, for the maps that have 7-10 pallets, what are they made up of. Mainly vaults. Again showing my idea would work better and fix this God forsaken meta dbd has found itself in.
Shelter Woods can spawn with 7-10 pallets and when they're gone the survivors are left with a flat barren wasteland with only a few vaults to delay the killer catching you.