Blueberry
Blueberry
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@MrDardon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683105#Comment_3683105
Which version did you main? Because currently, she seems like a better version of her original self. Well, except the condemn playstyle with Iri Tape + Ring Drawing
I mean yeah she’s “better” than her original I agree, but that’s like being happy she went from F tier to F+ or D- tier, still trash.
I mained her global condemn version. Which I do not think was unhealthy or overpowered. It was the most fun playstyle and was so unique compared to other killers. She has nothing unique about her now.
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@NovaKane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683047#Comment_3683047
It's not a top 10 perk, it's not 2022. The perk was nerfed cuz it was a top 10 petk. Is there any other exhaustion perk that u can only use twice? It can't even be used cuz everybody is like...if u wanna win, just tunnel. If you've played more than just 5 hours, youll see that killers come back and tunnel 4 out of 5 games. That's fine, i wanna win too. But even when the unhooker does everything possible to take chase, the...I must win no matter what mentality...leaves them slugged and the killer still tunnels you after only 1 gen is complete. Pallets get used, resources are gone. The killer will down you. They are faster, they have an M2 plus a map traversal option. They keep making undetectable and haste killer perks. All killers have some sort of power. Survivors only have skins, a terrible DS, OTR only works if your not hit immediately after an unhook, DH is pathetic, healing without sloppy takes 24 seconds.
The game also needs survivors to be happy to keep it going... Now there's talks about nerfing adrenaline. A perk that only works after you've pretty much won. It may cause a survivor to escape, how nany games have u played where noed gave the killer 2 extra kills and got them a 3 or 4K? Far more than adrenaline has saved one survivor
Well we have recent perk stats, of which DH is still in the top 10 used perks. It’s still one of the best exhaustion perks too. Most people at high mmr use it for a reason. It’s because it’s one of the best. It’s also not just 1 survivor, it’s a team game. That’s 8 DHs in a match. That itself is game carrying. We don’t need more of that.
So again, why are we buffing a top 10 meta perk that is already extremely strong when there’s so many other bad survivor perks we could be buffing instead?
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@MrDardon said:
I miss playing against a Myers who doesn't use Tombstone Piece.
But other than that.. generally, I wish more people played Sadako. She isn't that boring slug and condemn Survivors thing anymore, but she can generally pull off more in a chase now, even if it's not really that much more but still.
Also, Iridescent Video Tape with Bloody Finger Nails might be my guilty pleasure.. even though your Condemn is practically useless then.
I used to main Sadako for quite a while but her rework has left her in such a sad and pitiful state that’s it’s depressing to play her. She’s so, so bad now. That’s why we never see her anymore.
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Generally speaking survivor items and perks are not the issue with gen rush, its base kit. Gens are simply able to be done too fast and maps are designed in a way where most killers can’t exert enough map pressure regardless of how well they play to slow them down properly.
Ideally we’d gut all the gen regression/slow down perks heavily and slow the game down a lot at base. This could be better map design to easier pressure, mandatory secondary objective for survivors or something like an early game collapse to slow the beginning of the game down.
This is also essentially the same philosophy for removing tunneling. Tunneling is an issue from gen speed being too quick.
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@glitchboi said:
I could list a few.
Knight desperately needs Map of the Realm base-kit, for sure.
Singularity moreso needs QoL changes with the biopod launch range and which areas can be biopodded (I swear there's so many areas that could have biopods but you can't launch any on them) but I'd also like to see his wake-up time reduced a bit OR Somo Photo base-kit one way or another.
Dredge should travel faster outside of Nightfall and there could be some better locker spawns.
Finally, maybe... Deathslinger? Reload time should be reduced and maybe give him back his 24m terror radius.
Literally my exact handful I had in mind as well. I’d add Call to Arms for Knight as well.
Dredge needs Boat Key and Haddies Calendar basekit desperately. He actually has a quite a few good addons but you’re just never able to run them because you’re locked into these.
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@menacing_goose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3682409#Comment_3682409
Gen kick revert, sloppy revert, stbfl revert, thana revert, ruin revert, all of these except stbfl is regression you said you saw no issue with pop and pain res and then you said something about not being able to see less regression because of how the matches pace 🙃
You’re only able to have 4 perks at a time, so me wanting those back isn’t adding regression to games, it’s simply more variety. You also missed “I’d like to see less regression and we can gut all regression perks”.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3682341#Comment_3682341
Here's proof this game is massively unbalanced. Otz is a top-tier player who can go on massive win streaks as killer, yet can't escape more than 40% of the time after hundreds of matches. The devs have ruined this game for survivors.
We can’t really speak directly of people as it’s walking a line of breaking forum rules but I don’t think that shows what you think it shows. I have nearly as much hours as Otz does for reference. I track my game stats and my solo queue win rate is in the 70s%. Win rates are less important though than “why” you won or lost. For example, if you lose most your games but it was because you made lots of mistakes then that win rate wouldn’t mean as much as if you lost most games but played perfectly. This is why we judge objective balance based on good vs good, not average games. This is to say there’s a difference between balanced for average games and objective balance. Most people want the game balanced for the average game, I want it balanced for good vs good. If I wanted the game balanced the way Otz did for example I’d probably have the same opinions. We just want different things for the game and that’s okay.
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@menacing_goose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3682389#Comment_3682389
All I got from this is that you want any form of slowdown reverted to its best form. Slowdown as it is isn’t an issue so let’s just bring all of that back 😃
If that’s all you got then you need to go back and read it again since that isn’t what I said, or implied.
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In order to win without tunneling you need chases like sub 25 or so seconds. Which for the vast majority of the killer roster is impossible. Hence the problem. Survivors want chases significantly longer than this in order to have fun, but chases significantly longer than this lose the game for killer. We’re in a conundrum.
So we have to either slow the game down to allow survivors to have their long chases they want or the chases have to be that short.
Tunneling comes in so often because as I said earlier, unless you’re a few specific killers tunneling is the only way you’re going to reach that sub 25 second chase timer.
This is why on survivor if you can keep the killer busy without going down for at least 30+ seconds you’re doing good and winning the game unless your team is just bad of course.
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I don’t think they’re an issue at all, but for the sake of boring and variety I can agree that we want to see other perks. They nerfed all the other good perks so the killers are just defaulting to all that’s left. We don’t need those perks nerfed, we need other perks to be made actually good so we have more options.
Revert the Sloppy change, revert old Thana to its good version, revert most the gen kick perk nerfs since it’s totally unnecessary now that we have the gen kick limit and for that matter make the gen kick limit only be active when we’re at 3 gens, it makes no since to be active at the start of the game and it kills gen kick perks. Revert Ruin back to 200%, 100% is trash. 200% Ruin was not an issue. Revert STBFL, last version was healthy and good design.
Nerfing overpowered or unhealthy perks is fine, but all these things I just listed weren’t unhealthy or overpowered. Nerfing these just removed them from the game and further narrowed the variety of perks you see used.
Now if you want to see less “gen slow down” perks I’m down for that as well, but the problem is that currently games are too fast without them so they’re required. Slow the game down and we can gut all the gen slow down perks simultaneously if you want to go that route.
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As you get to high mmr on killer your opinion will change a lot.
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@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681724#Comment_3681724
It's not just Sloppy, since Alan Wake's release, STBFL also took a nonsensical nerf (all it needed was to deactivate near hooked Survivors and not work on basekit BT) and regression was made limited in an ill-thought-out way (all the system needs to be perfect is to only activate when 1 gen is left, it kills so many perks and makes life even more stressful for weaker/M1 Killers when going against decent teams as it is now).
Sloppy is just another layer, all those changes changed basically nothing for the best Killers but kicked weaker/M1 Killers while they were already down.
Oh I totally agree, I was just focusing on SB because it was the topic at hand.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681724#Comment_3681724
my problem with killer perks nerf is that they are not buffing killer perks. there is only negative changes. It is not like they will take underperforming perk Leverage and buff it. no alternative perk choices are presented. only more restriction on perk choice.
Yup I agree
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681556#Comment_3681556
Not true at all, people would realize that in that case the best counterplay is to predrop the pallet and hold W while looking foward. It will turn a cool killer with interesting counterplay into another hold W flowchart. I know a certain content creator proposed this and its funny af because they critizice bhvr for making killer that are "you just have to leave the loop and hold w" saying they are bad at power design while his suggestion for unknown will literally change him into the killer they so much despise.
I don’t think hold w and pre drop will work on a ranged killer like Unknown so I disagree. You’ll get hit my his ability trying to pre drop and while holding w since you can’t see his aiming behind you.
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I’d like a temporary increase just like new maps so we get a good chance to check them out.
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I actually like a lot of his addon uniqueness. Ghostfaces issue are more so in his base kit, it’s just bad. It needs to be much harder to break him out of his power. Not you get broken out 3 seconds after breaking line of sight, it’s silly. He feels bad to play. You’re hiding more from the survivors than they are from you. Honestly the small speed increase on exposing someone could be base kit too.
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Yup you nailed it. We want more perk diversity but we’re nerfing SB for some reason. Guess we’re all just stacking PR, Pop, Grim Embrace and DM/Deadlock still.
I just try to mix up my build and then it all gets nerfed into forcing me back into the same handful of meta slow downs. This is the same thing that happened with Thana as well. Now that perks been dead since then.
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The results of this are going to be skewed because you haven’t defined what you mean by “viable”. People use that word very differently.
For many people viable is as simple as is it playable and you can do well. Which by that definition everything is viable.
I use viable as is a win possible without tunneling/camping, with both sides of equal high skill, not reliant on survivor mistakes to win, with them being a swf on voice coms. Which by this definition is a very low number of killers.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681545#Comment_3681545
that is issue spine chill. Spine chill was designed to counter stealth killers. Personally I think the perk they should buff is premonition. Like lower the cooldown to 15 seconds.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681362#Comment_3681362
Stake out already gives 1% bonus progression. TINH just needs way bigger values, like triple base values.
Well to me that’s just fundamental bad design if it’s intended for stealth killers. That counters their powers too directly. Stealth is generally all they have and rely on so it needs to always be strong.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681488#Comment_3681488
What exactly is being removed? I'm not sure based on the prior posts and don't want to make a guess.
Oh nothings being removed. I just said I’d like if hypothetically tunneling/camping was removed, “if” the game was balanced appropriately to where it was never necessary.
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I think his mechanic should be the opposite.
Not looking at him removes the debuff while looking at him pauses/refills it.
This actually makes him extremely unique and would make people play against him differently. Also the bonus of now he no longer hurts bad or new players excessively when they don’t know what they’re doing since they don’t look behind themselves anyway.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681493#Comment_3681493
If that's the case I can say that the game is more killer sided by far I've never had an easier time so if anything killer doesn't need anything and survivors do they have been getting shitted on for the past year.
Well then we’re just fundamentally going to disagree. I feel the total opposite.
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@Atsuka_Anarchy said:
Spine Chill. Definitely Spine Chill…
I was thinking make it based on range from a TR. this keeps it relevant for most killers but ineffective on the stealth killers, which was realistically the problem with the old version. Making is based on TR also gives it more counter play from using TR reducing or removing perks.
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@JamJam said:
Spies from the shadows! I guess its not absolutely terrible but it doesn't feel strong or super beneficial at all compared to anything else. Would it really be to powerful if it just showed the aura of survivors who disturbed the crows for like 6 seconds?
Yeah I had the same idea. Or keep is just pings but the range substantially larger. So better for the range it is or be proccing more often from a wider radius.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681302#Comment_3681302
i play both sides so i dont know where you get this us vs them thing im just stating that if you want to do things for killer you have to give some to survivor.
You’re wanting tick for tack, that is an us vs them thing. We don’t measure game balance by one cookie for you, one cookie for me. We measure by objectivity. What if killers were way, way over powered and survivors needed multiple buffs to catch up. That would make sense. However if we were following your rational we couldn’t do that, if we gave survivor three buffs welp the killers gotta get 3 as well, even if they don’t need it.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680992#Comment_3680992
The vast majority do it because they feel forced to, not for an easy win. The large majority of people do not want to do those things at all.But as long as there are some players who sweat in the hypothetical casual que, it requires the other players to sweat to have a chance. Whether players are sweating out of a power fantasy, as @Seraphor says, or they are responding to people who are doing it, still results in the same thing.
That’s right, that’s why I’d like it removed and the game balanced around that.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681226#Comment_3681226
So we should bring back old ds and dh right since we should bring back old perks? Or are you just wanting to bring back killer perks ?
So revert one bad extremely recent change is synonymous with revert literally everything even years back? Can we not have an isolated conversation without turning every single thing into an us vs them thing? I actually would revert multiple things survivors had nerfed over the years, I'm sure that's surprising. However, any person with clear objectivity on the game agreed both those things you mentioned were extremely unhealthy design and bad for the game.
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@glitchboi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632050#Comment_3632050
I do hope that they listen to the backlash about the STBFL nerf. I don't mind the nerf to 4%, but being able to avoid losing stacks was a key part of the perk that made it fun. It is a strong and powerful perk, but not game-breaking nor overpowered.
^ This. The perk didn't need a nerf.
I wish they'd stop nerfing perks all around and just focus on buffing bad perks. They're adding perks to the meta at the same rate they're removing them (if not slower) so we're never actually getting a more diverse meta, just replacing perks. We need to be just adding more perks to the "good" pile so we have more options to choose from.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681045#Comment_3681045
With about half of all survs solos, around half the rest duos, I'm not sure balancing for the best play would actually work. Worth testing out though.
Not best play, just top 20% or so. But yeah.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3681024#Comment_3681024
I think the disconnect when it comes to balance for all of us is their tendency to focus on the average player experience first and foremost. Then the rookies. And then those highly skilled vets absolutely last. Whether this is the best and/or correct path is another thread entirely.
Methods and perks that are underutilized but otherwise fine at the normal level (say 85% of the playerbase) are crushing to newbies. And often op in the high MMR area. But it's that 85% they seem to balance around, those that are really not too good at the game yet, and likely won't put in the time to be.
To better understand their pov, I kinda think you just chuck out the numbers for that bottom 10% and that top 5% as well. Then what they do and don't change makes a bit more sense. Think of it an a sorta penalty for being too good.
I agree with your points.
I tend to think they should balance for the top like 20%. Since we have a SBMM system the lower tier players will have their mmr adjusted to where they are winning/losing exactly the same as before, except now the top is actually more balanced. So essentially I don't think balancing for the top say 20% hurts the lower people as much as people think it would/does. People have a tendency to be hyperbolic when we say balance top down and jump straight to the "1% comp players" which is a bit disingenuous.
This is also without even getting into the whole solo vs swf thing. Which I feel the amount of swf is significantly downplayed, especially at higher mmr's (there's a reason we aren't shown who's a swf in post game lobby). Like pure full solo queue groups (which the game is balanced around) is like sub 15% of my matches at least. So most my matches are playing "unbalanced" games if you will. Playing full solo queue will only get you so far in mmr heights, so the majority of people at those higher levels are swf since that's the only way you get there.
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Tunneling can be removed when the balance isn't so bad that it's no longer required.
A 12 hook game should be possible if the killer plays well enough. Just like a 4 man escape is, if they play well enough. 12 hook games are not possible right now unless the survivors play badly, regardless of how well the killer plays. Both sides need agency.
Also the amount of tunneling is ridiculously exaggerated. The amount of times I hear people call the killer a tunneler and they actually tunneled, is less than 10% of the time. Survivors call it tunneling basically anytime the same person gets hooked twice in a row, that is not tunneling. If the killer just happens to run into you twice in a row you can't just ignore them and welp let's go look randomly for someone else and let him get back on the gen as I turn my back.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680992#Comment_3680992
I don't feel forced to do any of it. If someone does feel forced, that suggests they feel they have to win at any cost and can't accept losing a fair number of games.
For example, I and many others don't have a problem when the killer camps or tunnels at end game to secure a kill, that is someone who is simply doing what they can to win what they can.
The problem arises when killers camp or tunnel as the default from the start of that game. That's not someone who is reacting against the odds, that's simply someone who wants to be as powerful at possible with no consideration for the other side or the balance of that game. People who want to 'win more' when they're already winning, kicking survivors when they're already down. That's the power fantasy rearing it's head.
Most of the time it's entirely unnecessary, and you could win without resorting to cheap tactics. But if you camp and tunnel as default because you believe you're "forced to", then you're never going to have the chance to see the games that you would have won without doing so.
"that suggests they feel they have to win at any cost and can't accept losing a fair number of games."
Or they can accept losing from playing badly, but just not from losing through poor balancing. Very different.
"The problem arises when killers camp or tunnel as the default from the start of that game. That's not someone who is reacting against the odds, that's simply someone who wants to be as powerful at possible with no consideration for the other side or the balance of that game."
Most games? Yes. However high mmr matches against 4 man swf's bar being on a few specific killers, that's how you're forced to play if you want to win unless they're just playing bad.
During the middle of the match as well? Many games this is necessary, and not from playing badly (it can be), from poor balancing.
"People who want to 'win more' when they're already winning, kicking survivors when they're already down. That's the power fantasy rearing it's head."
Is that the majority or a minority? It's very much the minority. If tomorrow the game was better balanced and tunneling/camping was never necessary to win if you played well then you would see very little of it happening bar the few people desperate for wins when playing badly or just salty at someone. Still, the minority.
"Most of the time it's entirely unnecessary, and you could win without resorting to cheap tactics."
Disagree. This is only accurate if the survivors are bad. If both sides play perfectly and the killer doesn't tunnel he will lose nearly every single time bar a couple exceptions. The vast majority of the killer roster (bar a couple exceptions) requires survivor mistakes to win, regardless of how well they play.
Don't get me wrong, I want tunneling and camping nerfed/removed from the game. It shows zero skill and gives kills that were unearned. However I also play against good enough players and with enough hours to understand how this game is balanced and know they're doing what's necessary much of the time. In a hypothetical world we'd remove those things entirely and then buff most killers accordingly to make them never necessary. I personally don't do those things at all because I don't want kills I didn't earn (same reason I don't like NOED) but I also understand it makes me lose games that I would replay in the exact same way and tunneling would've been the only way I could have won those. Meaning playing a hypothetical perfect game as killer doesn't mean you win.
When I'm in a swf group I don't blame them for tunneling, they have to. Unless we're just playing super bad they aren't winning without doing this. Without them tunneling whether we win or lose is up to us, not the killer.
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@Seraphor said:
The main problem with this is that what you're describing isn't 'competitive' it's opportunisticly oppressive.
People who play like this don't do it for the challenge, they do it for an easy win. They want the power fantasy. These people will not play a "competitive mode" because that would be making their games actively more challenging. They will continue to play "casual mode" so that they can bully weaker opponents.
I gotta disagree. The vast majority do it because they feel forced to, not for an easy win. The large majority of people do not want to do those things at all. Of course "easy win" people will always exist, but that's a minority. Every single person I know who plays DBD would never do any of that again if they felt it was never necessary.
What it takes to win and wanting an easy game are very different things that people tend to use synonymously.
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@moputopia said:
While the tactic of tunneling people out often feels cheap and bad to play against, I feel like only counting hook states removes a lot of macro gameplay and managing hook states on both survivor and killer side.
That said, a "win condition" is never defined by the game itself and can absolutely be personal or not the traditional 3 kills. I definitely wouldn't mind people setting personal winstreak goals that don't rely on kills. Going for 8 hooks can be more impressive even, since you're keeping all the survivors in the gamw for as long as possible.
Wouldn’t you call juggling more survivors that are alive way, way more macro game play than just the macro play of..I remember who has hooks?
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It’s like really, really bad. You could literally double its effect..and on Doctor it’s best user..and it would still be awful. That’s how bad it is. Its numbers need to be increased..ridiculously.
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@Grimmm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680602#Comment_3680602
I may make a post, and ask it how it would balance each killer, I can be specific too so I may ask like give me 20 ways you would buff each killer and then pick the best options. kinda sad tho that AI does a better job at balancing this game...
I wouldn’t skew its results by inserting “buff”, or even a specific 20. If it wants to nerf a killer I want to hear it too. Each specific killer though yes, I’d just like to hear what changes it thinks they need, whichever direction that may be.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
Flashlights are powerful and can quickly change the outcome of the game, however I think on their own they are fine. There’s risk to using them as you aren’t repairing gens and have to be in close proximity to the killer to pull it off. If you don’t get the save you’ve wasted a fair amount of time and possibly taken a hit
I think the issue is that you can easily remove that risk with Background Player. The killer has no way to know you are there and they waste way too much time if they stop to look for you. And if you do somehow mess it up, the speed boost just gets you out of trouble and you can just run off without any harm.
I don’t think Background Player is necessarily overpowered, but it does remove the vast majority of flashlight counter play.
Essentially this ^. The rest those things are fine as they require skill, risk and they have counter play. The only issue right now is Background Player. To me it removes the killers counter play. The perk removes smart pick up angles for the killer to avoid blinds and essentially resorts to the only counter play left being just getting lucky and being near a wall.
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@Grimmm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680577#Comment_3680577
I thought so too lol, and its just the CoPilot AI on Microsoft Edge lol. even AI understands nurse and blight need a nerf but survivors also need to be toned down and buffed in certain areas, if only the devs understood what a robot does.
And just think, if it was giving that significant of buffs to pyramid head and Wesker which are both already A tier killers, how much would it be giving something like Trapper or the rest the roster that are B and below rofl. It must realize most the roster is like reallyyy bad.
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What I gathered was that the AI agrees Nurse and Blight are too strong while also thinking most the other killers are too weak. It also thinks survivors are too strong based on these changes. Seems like a smart AI.
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FNAF has me excited but I’m also eagerly awaiting for horror classic chapters with DBDs own take of a vampire or werewolf type killer.
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@09SHARKBOSS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679533#Comment_3679533
im glad so many of the people/robots (im looking at you @TheSingularity) all believe it will be the same thing
ps the friends are @TheSingularity, @GeneralV, and @Blueberry
all of u r my friends
You’re our friend too haha
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Seems a pretty even split. I just don’t like to be forced into tunneling people out when doing a win streak since I’d rather play for hooks since I think it shows more skill and the survivors a more enjoyable game. However I don’t want my streak “invalidated” because I didn’t want to tunnel. Unfortunately for as much as the community hates tunneling it feels like I’m forced to or it wasn’t a “win”.
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I mean do these make him better? Sure, I’m down for that.
Would he still be extremely boring though? Yeah
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@OneNineTwoNine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680304#Comment_3680304
I feel like you are dilluting my point and blurring the line between what is objectively unfun and what is subjectively unfun. I do not agree with letting people who don't like facing X killer, or X perk concede without further notice.
What I am saying is that there are certain objectively unfun scenarios which just serve to waste time and bore the person involved, and it feels like you are entirely ignoring that point.
Regardless, the burden of proof is on both of us, and I don't think either of us can prove whether or not these people are the majority or minority. And I don't really think it's even relevant.
Personally, my anecdotal experiences suggests that most of the time people give up when facing incredibly objectively unfun strategies, such as tunneling out at 5 gens, proxy-camping, or getting slugged for 4 minutes. And can you really fault people for that?
The disussion about whether or not these strategies are valid or overpowered or not, is completely irrelevant, I know this wasn't mentioned, I am preemptively mentioning it before someone comments exactly that. Neither is the discussion about what other games do, or what you subjectively perceive to not be a valid reason to ALT - F4.
The point is that it isn't fun to face, and the whole point of video games for most people is to have fun. I don't play Dead by Daylight to win. I play it to get my challenges done, spend time with friends, and have a good time. I don't like pubstomping killers, and I don't like getting pubstomped. The perfect game is one where everyone feels like they had a meaningful impact and were able to participate. If I die or live in those matches, is completely irrelevant to me. And that the concede button allows people to back out of matches that frankly are not worth even a millisecond of your time, or anyone's time for that matter.
What about the element of empathy? I think the "your fun is not my responsibility" crowd have some good points, but some of them also reek of just completely disregarding the fact that you are playing against other human beings that have just as much of a right to have fun as you do. This isn't even something to discuss, you should be considerate of the people around you. That's basic human decency.
I’m not bluring the lines. The things you’re talking about are unfun, they’re just very rare. I play way, way more than the average person at 10k hours and those situations are very rare. I’m only making the point that these are solutions for a small amount of scenarios with a feature that stands to cause more harm than good with how abusable it could be.
There’s also many things the devs consider normal game play and don’t condone that I get the impression you would deem as objectively unfun. So how do we rectify that? You’re wanting a feature to prevent scenarios that they want to allow. That’s counterintuitive yes?
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@OneNineTwoNine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680229#Comment_3680229
I think expecting that you can force people to play a game that isn't fun or worth their time, is a much bigger problem. The DC penalty is a bandaid fix to a much bigger issue with the game: How fun it is to be pubstomped by a killer that has no intention to give you even an inch of a chance.
If you get rid of hook suicides, you'll just be left with a new problem: Survivors will AFK until the match is over, or intentionally try to lose as fast as possible.
This doesn't apply to survivors who give up over every small little thing, but they shouldn't even be in the conversation because they are not the majority, and they skew the perspective of what I think is a very real issue, namely that some matches just drag on while it is very clear you've already lost, and nobody should have to be forced to endure that for 4 minutes.
And if pips are an issue, simply make the death from concede count as a sacrifice. Problem solved. I don't care if the killer wins or loses, I just really don't want to spend 4 minutes of my life that I can never get back doing nothing.
Survivors who give up over every small thing are absolutely not the minority, they are the majority. The vast majority of dc’s or ending themselves on hook are for silly reasons, very few are actually legitimate reasons. The scenario you’re talking about for justified reasons are a small, small minority.
I’ve also always disagreed with the whole not forcing people to play something they’re not having fun. Literally every single game does this. “Not having fun” can be skewed into endless things. I’m not winning or probably going to lose? Oh that’s not fun, I’m out.
Saying they will just try to throw the game or afk I also don’t believe is realistic. That is making them waste A LOT more time. Most would not do that.
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This was actually my first thought walking into the event. I was going around trying to do the event stuff and check things out and all the first matches were sweat groups going as hard as possible on the gens. I was like jeez I thought we were all gonna be chill and having fun with the event things.
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SBMM is bad for the game unless they’re balancing for the top down, which they’re not. I don’t mind going against equally skilled players, but not when the game isn’t balanced for facing equally skilled players. I like losing because I played worse, not because of poor balancing. With how bad the balancing is on the higher end we have so many killers on the roster that are so weak that you could play a hypothetical perfect game and still lose. Lack of agency is something you don’t want gamers to ever feel.
As long as the game is balanced for the lowest common denominator we need bad matchmaking to cover the balance problems up.
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She dropped a tier for me.
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So survivors ending themselves on hook is already a problem and we have to give a second option to do the same thing?
This sounds terrible. The hook problem is already a way of subverting the dc penalty which is a problem, we don’t want to give even more options to do that.