Blueberry
Blueberry
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I just wanna know if we'll be able to recall Victor immediately after downing and attaching to them. That's the deciding factor of how good or bad this is looking to me right now.
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@dance said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687028#Comment_3687028
For Ultimate Weapon, the Survivor's aura is only visible for 3 seconds.
Also want to give a thanks for everyone sharing their thoughts on the Dev Update :)
Thanks for commenting!
Would you be able to clarify some of the wording. When it says you can recall Victor at "any time", does that include while attached to someone on the ground?
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You're downplaying a perk that will be in the top 10 used perks now and meta every game. The perk is very, very good.
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That's a good point. Hopefully it's a bug.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3686904#Comment_3686904
there is nothing that doesn't say twin will not slug because the change do not fix the problem to why twin is slugging. The reason why she is slugging is because survivor can hold-w after a hit so when survivor does go down, Charlotte is 60-70 meters away from pick-up.
With victor being able to hit survivor twice, this becomes even more of an incentive to slug because only reward you get for not slugging is being able to attach victor to slugged survivor to gain messily 10% haste bonus. Why do i care about that? I don't. Biggest buff here is Toy sword base-kit. I wonder if you'll able still use toy sword.
I don't think twin is going to any more popular than it is now.
Adrenaline is still meta, unchanged. the problem with health-state, not speed boost.
Ultimate weapon: This perk is not dead but the whole reason why a killer was using ultimate weapon was to counter distortion. Now ultimate weapon is countered by distortion. This perk might be stronger then previous iteration of the perk because survivor doesn't know when they are detected by the perk which current version does tell them that they are detected by the perk. The perk is buffed and nerfed. Buffed if you do not run distortion, nerfed if you do.
Decisive strike: This is pretty much meta. Now I am just going to see 4 decisive every lobby for high MMR, so great.
Yeah I'll really have to test it out to see exactly how it's working. If I can instantly recall Victor after the down to immediately send him back out +the other buffs she got..this might be a buff..to even slugging. As you said, I couldn't care less about a haste on Charlotte. Immediately sending Victor back out just sounds better. Some inconvenience having to travel Victor back from Charlotte each time, but sometimes a good thing. With all the other buffs she got, which are substantial, that might actually be a lot more improvements than negatives to slugging Twins. I'm a little more hopeful now. Especially them not being able to take Victor hostage anymore is huge and Tiny Sword base kit sounds juicy.
I'm starting to wonder if these changes might actually do the complete opposite of what they're wanting lol. Unless I'm reading it wrong and you can't recall Victor immediately after downing someone when he attaches..then they're looking like garbage.
Ultimate Weapon doesn't look too bad, but it being another perk completely countered by Distortion feels bad.
DSx4 will be every single game again.
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Even at 3 sec it was still very good, just not good on bad players. There's a reason it was still ran in comp and in most high mmr swf.
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@typervader said:
The fact you cant attach victor to healthly survivors, losing a large part of your pressure and power for no reason is what i mostly dislike. It feels uncessary to remove that part of the power, along with the killer insncit and reaveal.
Seems like Twins will be way more one dimeosinal and boring, as all victor is good for now is getting injuries.
Please, reconsider parts of this rework. I do like everything else.
-A twins Main
We'll have to test it out of course, but the way I'm reading it is they're now basically only good at chain injuring people (a worse Legion) except Charlotte is an m1 with haste (boring for everyone involved, see SM).
Hope I'm reading their changes wrong.
Curious to see the addons too.
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Really badly designed map. Very busted house loops and huge open mid field that lets you see the killer coming a mile away and encourages the hold w game play everyone hates tremendously.
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Her kill rate is highly inflated as well. I’ve been playing a lot of her and I’d say at least 1/4 of my games the survivors just run up to me and sacrifice themselves because they want out right at the start. That is A LOT of inflated numbers and not even counting all the dc’s of which I probably get the same amount. This isn’t even playing a certain way, this is the start of the game as soon as they realize it’s SM, before I’ve done anything.
She isn’t that strong though, she’s like B tier at best.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3686388#Comment_3686388
they should give Michael the event lunge in tier 3. The 200% lunge in this event is super fun. Otz made a video where matthew cote was explaining Myer's power. He described the power that his power all about making everyone the obsession. That sounds really interesting with Michael's PWYF perk. MIchael would far more intimating killer to play against if he could make everyone obsession for PWYF paired with new event lunge.
Sounds interesting. Would be nice to test on the PTB. I wish they'd get a little more adventurous with testing things out there.
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I think it's okay.
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Those addons are only coming into play if the survivors are terrible honestly. The stalk takes so long no actual good players are getting punished by them. If these addons are an issue, it's a skill issue.
For updating Michael. Remove the stalk limit. Make him have faster stalk at longer distances instead of reduced. Give his T3 a built in Endurance/Brutal Strength.
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Probably too much. Maybe just make it apply from the start of the game? No hit required.
I dislike hexes though honestly for how easy they are to remove. I'd rather it not be a hex, require injuring them still, but only active while injured. So any time they heal it removes the blindness.
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So limit how close they can be but also how far they can be?
For every game I get where they're too close I probably get 2 games where they're on totally opposite sides and it's basically a free escape for the survivor unless they really play bad.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
This would be thr buff that my stealth Nemmy needs!
It's tough to say, as the audio was made for balance but eh, I'd have fun with it.
Spooky Dredge would become a thing and I'd be so down for that
Oh totally! Spooky Myers or Dredge. While the devs may feel those audios help balance them I think it would be fair since you're giving up a perk slot that could literally be a PR, Pop, GE etc. This perk would make for some interesting "stealth" builds and if you're giving up a perk slot for it could make actual stealth killers stealthier as well.
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Nemesis is really weak, he actually needs significant buffs, specifically on the zombies.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3685925#Comment_3685925
This is a really good take.
However, less line of sight would drastically weaken killers like Huntress, dont you think?
Yes you're correct, that is a very unfortunate side effect that I don't have a solution for. Just in general for "most" the game it would be better overall. Maybe those specific killers could get alternate improvements in other ways to compensate. Maybe most the LoS blockers are more "vision" and less actual like objects, so they could still theoretically make the hits, it would just be harder to see that far and maybe put more emphasis on aura perks for vision through them. Idk. Maybe you have some ideas?
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Definitely an issue I notice a lot. As you said some perks exacerbate this but it’s a core issue as well even without perks. Generally speaking this is why large maps are bad design as they encourage hold w game play. Shift w is significantly reduced on smaller maps as it forces interaction with the killer.
Against good survivors, especially on coms they know how strong this is. “Left me”, “he’s coming!” Every gen you walk towards before you even “start” a chase you lose 10+ seconds at least to catch up. That’s at least 30-40 seconds lost when multiplied to other survivors also gaining that time and you see why it’s so effective.
Solution? Shrink maps to force interaction of who’s better. Also, increase LoS blockage. An issue many maps have is they can see you coming a mile away, that's bad design. This is another reason I personally like indoor maps as the line of sight blockage can many times prevent knowing which way to hold w.
There’s not really counter play you can do yourself other than bring stealth perks to prevent their heads up. However, like I said earlier swf negates all this as well anyway and now you’re also going down the rabbit hole of inefficient perks.
As much as survivors hate it, this is also why killers 3 gen. It makes the survivors come to you more and reduces the hold w (as much as you can anyway). Most killers don’t have enough map mobility or pressure in their design and are forced into 3 gens.
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Not excited because they're going to push her away from the slug play style which I like. Also a bad track record for reworks.
She doesn't even need a rework she just needs buffs and QoL changes.
Revert the longer stun on successful pounces (punishing people for playing well..what?), revert Charlotte losing collision when using Victor (this was being creative and playing to their strengths), fix Victor being taken hostage, and finally lots of addon changes. All the status effects needs to last longer. Any addon that is "crushing Victor while idle" is trash, they need to just be "crushing Victor". Tiny Sword should be base kit.
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Seeing as I play solo queue every single day and way more than the average person with a win rate higher than losses, yes survivor is just fine.
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No rework needed. Just some really good QoL changes to make him significantly smoother to play and Soma Photo base kit. Plus EMPs way less readily available.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684365#Comment_3684365
Idk maybe have it give you extra bloodpoints for flashlight evasion.
Well essentially it’s currently just for new players. Other than background player use if anyone is getting hit by flashlights it’s typically a skill issue. There’s zero scenario I would ever see it being worth running, even with 4 flashlights. It’s a wasted perk slot. Plus as soon as they see you weren’t able to be blinded the entire team is now never trying to blind again as they all know. You want them to waste the time.
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Really annoying having to play her on multi level maps.
Overall a very strong killer.
However, being able to remove birds by jumping in a locker is bad design and ruins her chances of being fun to play for me. The only fun part of Artist is cross map sniping. Lockers removing birds negates this entirely. The skill should be between both sides aiming and dodging. So what else does that leave for her? The completely mindless placing birds at loops for either a free hit or you get held w'd. Both boring scenarios. Nerf her anti loop a bit and buff her cross map sniping which is what actually makes her fun to people. Her viable but boring anti loop is why she's rarely played.
Also, Festering Carrion needs to be base kit. It's a forced auto lock if you want to have fun cross map sniping.
She has a lot of bad and boring addons for that matter. I could go into all these one at a time but that's a lot for here.
Playing against her is also boring for the same reason. Snipes generally not viable if me and my team are good and playing against her at loops is completely boring as the entire scenario plays itself out the same every time. To me it lacks the skill expression that cross map snipes do.
She's one of those very rarely played killers that is unfortunately very close to being a fun and popular killer like Huntress but is only missing a few key changes to get her there. Improve snipes, nerf anti loop.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684111#Comment_3684111
Apologies, my meaning of loaded question more meant that the question didn’t really have a verifiable answer, I should have used a better term.
It's okay, and yeah there really isn't a verifiable metric until we're shown our mmr's.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684086#Comment_3684086
There’s no malintent at all and I never assumed that? Your question just seemed a little loaded and doesn’t have an actual good way to answer it. You put it best that an experienced player can tell who’s good at the game.
You can’t see MMR, you can’t see their rank, prestige doesn’t matter, I guess you could view their hours if you’re so inclined but even then that’s not the best indicator. The only actual way to tell if they’re good or not is by how they actually play and even then that’s still somewhat subjective. There’s never going to be a way that they can prove to you they were good players without recording their games…
"There’s no malintent at all and I never assumed that?" "Your question just seemed a little loaded"
Saying it seemed loaded is adding malintent.
"There’s never going to be a way that they can prove to you they were good players without recording their games…"
That's why I said assuming things. I never said there was a way to prove it or that that's even what I was wanting. All I was expecting was something like "they had a lot of hours" or "they seemed like good players from my experience". Fine answers. I didn't imply his answers would be bad, just that I was wanting to know what metric he was using. That's it.
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@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3684012#Comment_3684012
We have a conflict of visions and that's okay. the only difference is that I see more negative points and you see more positive points in relation to her.
3 genning is still a Thing because survivors can't remove stacks of Lock on. If you want to defend the last generators and they are in a dead zone, there isn't much that the survivor with the claw trap can do, he has to wait 45s until the time runs out and not activate another drone otherwise the time will reset and we all know that the last 3 generators will become an area full of drones and if you deactivate, SM can simply reactivate them again.
There should be a way to remove the lock on.
Why are you disarming so many to begin with? You don't need to remove nearly as many stacks of Lock On if you aren't getting them in the first place. You can crouch walk as well as not be detected while being still on the gen. This all sounds like playing incorrectly against her.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683992#Comment_3683992
I’ve seen you state before that experienced players can tell a good survivor apart from an average to bad one, and considering they have 80k shards I’d say they have quite a bit of experience in this game.
I do agree that the sample size is rather small but I don’t think it discredits the overall point of the post. Skull Merchant (IMO) is the easiest killer to play in the game and benefits from a plethora of different reasons of questionable design choices.
You immediately jumped to assume malintent behind my post. They were genuine questions and not rhetorical at all.
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@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683992#Comment_3683992
Apart from the matches where the survivors committed suicide the rest were good survivors, I don't need to lie about that.
You are also free to try matches with her if you want and see the results.
" Do you feel 6 games is a good pool to draw your conclusion from?"
I've been playing this game for 5 years now so I believe I have some idea of what I'm talking about and I'm sure with conviction that SM is a terrible killer design.
There are some matches that are exceptions of course here and there but in general I’d say if SM is winning consistently without perks or tunneling/camping at all then the survivors are not very good. Also her counter play has nothing to do with swf or not at all. She isn’t excessively punishing to solo queue more than swf, she’s just punishing to people playing bad. You don’t need coordination for her, just to individually be good.
I actually have been doing a lot of matches with her and I don’t come to your conclusions at all. Her design isn’t as bad as I used to think.
3 genning isn’t realistically a thing anymore after the gen kick nerf. If survivors are losing to a 3 gen at this point, especially if it’s a no perk SM, it’s a skill issue.
Getting punished because another survivor did a drone is the same as getting punished by Michael because someone else let him stalk, nothing new.
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If I can tell the survivors are wasting time intentionally.
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How do you verify these were good survivors?
Do you feel 6 games is a good pool to draw your conclusion from?
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Probably somewhere give or take around 8 hooks. Kills is a terrible metric to balance the game around for a multitude of reasons.
A 2k with 10 hooks and a 2k with 2 hooks look the same based on kills but when you look at hooks you realize they were not even remotely similar matches.
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Sounds unique! I wish they’d take some more chances and make some more unique maps like this.
I’d like if they also did a map (could be this one) where more of the map size is vertical rather than horizontal. This makes more player interaction and encourages less hold w. So a house for example that’s multiple stories up but a lesser amount of actual ground floor.
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If we did this would we be balancing the game more towards swf since we’re getting solo closer to swf?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683801#Comment_3683801
I don't think anyone would use Low profile in end game. Hope is way better. Heck I rather use No one left behind over Low profile.
I wasn’t really thinking it over Hope, more so in conjunction with each other for end game builds.
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Wiretap I actually wouldn’t buff. It’s low key one of those perks that is actually really good, especially now that gen kicking is mostly dead. Certain Wiretaps on the right gens can make literal infinites and even in shack can come real close to an infinite. An extremely underrated perk that most people don’t realize how good it can be. I like the idea of more synergy with things like open handed..but that honestly sounds way too strong. Imagine 4 of these on the map with open handed..your entire team would have map wide aura reading basically.
Reactive Healing needs a buff yeah. Yours sounds a bit too strong though. Maybe 50%, then 75%, then full heal. So make it require 3 hits basically instead of 2 like you were mentioning. This is really hard to gauge though, I’d want to see this in a PTB. This might be good or way too good, I’d have to see.
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Low Profile just make it permanent like Hope and active once the gates are powered. Now it’s good. Just another strong end game only perk like Hope.
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Map sizes. Most maps should be Coal Tower size.
Strength of loops once the pallet is thrown. Way too many loops are forced pallet breaks rather than being reasonably mind game able.
Background Player. Unhealthy design. It removes most the killers counter play in avoiding blinds bar getting lucky and near a wall.
Distortion. Too easy to get tokens. Should provide some aura protection, not permanent all aura immunity all game. Reduce token generation rate.
Nurse. I’d reduce her post blink lunge range. She should be required to have better accuracy, it’s currently too forgiving.
Exhaustion perks in general, bar a few exceptions. Or simply provide “actual” counter play. You can generally guarantee every single survivor will be running one and it’s still not worth running anti exhaustion perks because they’re all trash. Buff them or weaken Exhaustions. Currently there’s zero reason you would ever not run an exhaustion perk if you want to win. They’re just always good, no downside generally speaking. That’s bad design.
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Let’s focus on buffing the bad perks, not buffing an already top 10 meta perk. The perk is already ridiculously good and game swinging.
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The perk needs to stay strong. It encourages healthy game play of spreading hooks. We want more perks like this. Incentive to not tunnel is a good thing.
It needs to be strong because it’s making the killer play inefficiently.
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I’ve backed off on some of my SM dislike lately. Been playing as and against her a lot more. Honestly the only time she could have “bad design” is when people ignore her mechanics. However that’s just being bad, that should be expected. When you actually know how to play around her drones she’s quite weak.
I also don’t see the issue with her “3 genning”. 3 genning was killed, it doesn’t exist to any meaningful extent that is an issue anymore. Yeah she can throw drones on gens, who cares, it doesn’t matter. If 3 genning is losing games for people still it’s because they’re playing bad.
She doesn’t require coordinated swf play, she just requires the individual survivors to not be bad, but that’s every killer.
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@Yharwick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683364#Comment_3683364
So three thoughts here
1. I don't think it's fair to say one takes more skill than the other I think it's different skills cuz you don't have to worry about gens for the 8k but you don't have to care about tunneling for the 3k.
2. The forums don't represent the entire community lol it doesn't really matter what people tell you on here. If you wanna do it then do it.
3. Fairness is subjective but also DBD more than any other game I've played has this weird obsession to being nice to the other side that I don't really get. You get stomped in any other game it's considered part of the game and you move on but in DBD if you stomp in a game people act like you committed a war crime it's bizarre to me personally.
- Why would you not need to care about gens for the 8 hook? That doesn't make sense. Better map pressure and control on gens leads to more hooks. Keeping 4 survivors up as opposed to get one out asap to juggle 3 is objectively easier. 3k taking less skill than 8 hooks doesn't seem subjective to me. Completing all the chases for 8 hooks requires skill however there are many ways to get 3 kills that doesn't take skill.
- That's true. However forum/youtube media is what matters since that's where you'd be showing a streak or using to make a point. Those will be the people receiving that point. So even if they aren't representing the entire community, they are the judgement of that streak when it's presented in any context.
- I agree. My more reasoning is because I think it shows more skill and it's quite frankly just more fun for me personally. The more fun for others is just a side bonus, not the main point of it.
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@Yharwick said:
For my streaks it's 3k or 4k, because well the role is killer so a win should be kills and that's what I enjoy but even beyond that I would honestly find trying to two hook everyone a massive chore and it just wouldn't be fun for me to do.
That being said there are many types of streaks and if you wanted to do a 8 hook 0k streak I see no reason it should be deemed invalid.
See that’s what’s tough to me. I personally think 8 hooks is significantly harder and more skill requiring than a 3k even as well as letting everyone have more fun but it seems from here that my streak is deemed invalid and doesn’t count if I do that. For it to be a valid streak it seems I’m forced to use less skill and make everyone have a bad time.
So the community wants people to play more fair but at the same time encourages the opposite.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683296#Comment_3683296
Maybe I am unlucky. :(
I see her once a month if that.
Yeah after they destroyed her I’m lucky if I see her in a month and I play a lot.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683260#Comment_3683260
Yeah I felt that my friend. It’s sad. I just don’t know what to do. I really love her. It’s not every day you get to play the creepy well girl from The Ring in a video game. Dead by daylight is the only option of video game you can do that.
Exactly! Felt like she went from forgotten, to an actual killer, and now she’s back to forgotten. Like why did we even waste time going through all those versions just to end up right back where we started.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683222#Comment_3683222
I agree ☝🏼 Sadako is weak again against mid to high mmr and even more so against a swf.
Tapes right now are not threatening. They should be. Survivors have it too easy to counter her.
She still needed tweaking but this feels incomplete in my opinion. The new feature on Ring drawing should've be been base kit and left the original design.
I feel the exact same way. Ring drawing absolutely needs to be base kit.
Version 2.0 she felt decently viable against actually strong high mmr groups. Challenging and close, but I felt like I had a chance of winning. Now not even a chance. I could play perfectly and I’d still get trashed.
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Thwack I like your version. The perk isn’t good enough to require hooks whatsoever. Pallets are limited and so are gen kicks now.
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The problem with Leverage is it’s a small percentage for a high requirement. High cost/low reward.
Either keep the percentage low but literally remove the timer. So permanent 5, then 10, then 15 ect. So very weak at the start by better as it goes on.
Or
That percentage needs to be like 30% + at least for 45 seconds + to all.
So we’re either lowering the risk or raising the reward. It’s currently complete trash.
Your versions make it better, but it still looks very weak.
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In an idealistic scenario good matchmaking sounds great. The problem is that the game is extremely unbalanced. So bad matchmaking covers up the games balance issues and makes it function. The game isn’t balanced for accurate good vs good matches. This is why for example in comp in order to try and make it as balanced as possible there are dozens of made up extra rules. They pick one of the better killer maps rather than the average one you’re gonna run into in most game, as well as heavily limiting survivor perks and items.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3683202#Comment_3683202
As an Onyro Main I am P100 with…I both agree and disagree with this. Onyro 2.0 was interesting….OG sadako was unique for me. The passive condemn on tapes was neat and kept people from hoarding tapes.
2.0 took away from her original traits which I didn’t like, but it was interesting.
3.0 is just a mix between 2.0 and 3.0
They should have taken sadako 1.0 and give her todays buffs. She would be perfect.
They keep reworking killers from their original forms of what we paid for. Sadako, Trickster, Freddy, Skull Merchant.
I agree though. I don’t feel 2.0 was unhealthy.
Yeah I can understand that, different tastes of what we find fun.
I find her current version to be extremely weak and counter intuitive though. The amount of hooks to lock in a relevant amount of stacks makes the condemn pointless as by that point they’re dead on hook anyway, so it’s meaningless bar saving the time of a carry, which you wasted more time getting their condemn up than you saved with that carry time anyway. Zero punishment for tape holding so it feels like you have little control over preventing stack removal and you’re forced into chasing..as an m1 killer with realistically no anti loop at all. While also realistically not being a stealth killer anyway as she has a lullaby.
The literal only thing Sadako has going for her right now is good map traversal and a tiny bit of passive slow down. That’s it.
Now if they returned destroying tapes on hit to give her some agency on tape control, removed limit of lock in stacks on hook to encourage hooking without trivializing condemn by needing 2 hooks, then now we might be talking with some potential.