Blueberry
Blueberry
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3680168#Comment_3680168
I suppose you have not yet played against an Unknown player that was even half decent.
Couldn’t I also just say I suppose your teams been playing badly and making you think he’s stronger than he is? I wouldn’t make that point.
These types of statements don’t really say anything. We have to focus on actual points.
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679990#Comment_3679990
It is not about them being literally hard to see but them being everywhere if you give him an unlimited amount. Hard to see ones as in unexpected so you do not check during the approach or even if you do check there is neither time nor another location to go to.
With the change I’m talking about that would be entirely the point. The survivors would need to manage them from being everywhere.
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679426#Comment_3679426
The range of aura read on hallucinations is quite limited and if they are behind an object you see them late at best. If they are in the open, sure, you see them, but saying you see them everywhere all the time is disingenuous especially in chase when you have few options and may be getting zoned, too.
When you are chased into an area of the map you have not been to before and you are not aware that he chased anyone else there then every hallucination would be 'random' to you or when he abandons a chase and you happen to be there either just arriving or attempting to dispel. Tell me neither of these are not random.
I include getting sniped at a gen immediately after teleport in getting jumped not just taking his axe to the face - this could be just at the edge of this terror radius. I agree being in melee range of a hallucination after a hook is a misplay especially when injured but if you still think this is the extent of possibilities with unlimited hallucinations and survivors have unlimited time to deal with unlimited hallucinations, let us assume they are not interrupted else this gets much worse, then I don't see a point in continuing this argument.
Dude you can see the auras way, way easier than you are making it sound like. You are never being surprised. I don't see how you could ever not see them. We're just not going to see eye to eye if you think the hallucinations are that hard to see.
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Seems weak to me. Easy to dodge, easy to remove the debuff. Predictable teleports. Super loopable on circular objects like rocks, good on block shaped loops like gyms. I’ve watched the videos of people claiming he’s good and it’s usually just survivors playing bad making him look good. I think he needs some good buffs. His design also leads him to be one of those killers like singularity where he’s rarely going to be seen post this recent launch.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679364#Comment_3679364
I would as well, but that's the way it goes and it does reflect the state of the game.
The average player does tunnel or proxy fairly regularly, so I think the difference is probably still pretty wide
I think the amount of tunneling is vastly over exaggerated. We should also be pushing for how the game should be. Balancing around tunneling is balancing around something that isn’t representative of skill or balance.
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@D0NN1ED4RK0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679713#Comment_3679713
The only 3 things I can think of for basekit buffs are
- Revert him back to his launch state cause his clunky basekit is just bad for those who aren’t used to it
- basekit one of his range addons (he has 3 range addons which are black strap, wax doll and burning man painting)
- maybe add pallet breaking to his m2 attacks
but I think his basekit is in a decent spot
its already a very very very strong basekit
special hooks, range attacks, and zoning
I like 2, but 1 would improve his tunneling again which you didn’t want.
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@D0NN1ED4RK0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679676#Comment_3679676
I did that idea once for an addon pass concept I did for fun but I still feel like it’ll work in a strange way
altho your take on it is pretty neat
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679674#Comment_3679674
There’s literally many other ways to create addon concepts for him
torment on M2 has been said a lot of times and it was even tested on a PTB
While he does need an addon pass he needs improvements base kit as well. We already have too many addon reliant killers that I don’t want his buffs to be only in the form of addons.
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I mean how else do we buff him then?
M2s need to be more rewarding than they currently are. Maybe significantly reduced recovery time only on successful hits?
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This is one of those feel good perks that people think is making more of a difference than it is. Not saying it’s bad, I just wouldn’t call it good. Make it 35% and make it increase the base gen kick regression a bit. Current version just isn’t worth a perk slot imo compared what other options are available.
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It’s still terrible. Most tiles you can hit them with an ambush are already weak enough you could’ve just played the m1. The overly strong loops where you need an anti loop at it’s still not landing you a hit. Plus just leaving the loop on crouching is still completely a thing. The nerf of losing box auras was also quite massive and can’t be overstated for the amount of people that think this was minor, it was not.
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Feels like Torment should be easier to apply and his ranged attacks should be more rewarding. I’d like the Torment on ranged hits base kit and trails lasting longer. Addon pass of course as well.
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Something being too strong on Blight or Nurse isn’t a reason to nerf, that’s a Blight and Nurse problem. We can’t be balancing the entire game around them. Overall I don’t see the issue with the perk. This nerfing of everything else is how we continuously end up with just 4 stacked gen regression/block perks over and over and over. We need more diversity not less. I’d rather a killer run that perk than another slow down.
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Hope it’s fixed soon, she’s one of my main killers I play.
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I’ve got it off every single time I’ve ran it and when my teammates have they usually did to so idk.
I think the issue is typically not running Distortion. There’s enough aura perks that running it without Distortion is asking for a bad time. Distortion basically guarantees you’ll get it off.
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I’m expecting FNAF with a secondary as Vecna as I think those are both basically guaranteed to be coming to DBD eventually with it only being a matter of time.
If it’s original I think it will be a vampire/dracula type chapter.
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For SBMM reasons the two terms are basically synonymous. To me and an aim for objective balance though, they’re not. The reason people discredit kill stats is because there are a multitude of different things that lead to kills in DBD that have absolutely nothing to do with skill. The “with skill” part matters because the point of measuring these kills is for balancing matches based on skill. For just one example, a killer may get 3 kills in a match but that doesn’t tell me he played well. If a killer gets 8 hooks in a match though with zero kills, that does tell me he played well. However the kills would say he lost. While still flawed, hooks would be a significantly better criteria for measuring wins or game balance than hooks. As long as we’re measuring by kills, “wins” is a flawed term to use, even though I do understand that’s what they’re currently using, unfortunately.
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679094#Comment_3679094
I disagree that survivors do control them if The Unknown hits his shots and protects them unless survivors are on comms. Depends on the map and where the chase went, sure, but as soon as the snowball starts rolling there is little time to remove them. Though maybe I'm the only one in my games who cares to deal with hallucinations, that's a possibilty. You asked about unlimited hallucinations. How do you feel about getting ambushed as soon as BBQ triggers or even randomly and then cut off wherever you go without knowing he even was there to drop one or four hallucination in the first place? Or better yet you even spent 20s to look around and dispelled one or two hallucinations but there was a third one in an obscure location.
First, you see hallucination, so you aren’t getting surprised. You know exactly where they are. There is no “randomly” getting surprised. How are they in an obscure location if you see where they’re at? If it’s far enough you aren’t seeing their auras then you realistically have so much heads up that you aren’t getting jumped.
Second, I wouldn’t be getting jumped after a bbq because I would realize not to clear one right as someone’s being hooked. That’s a survivor misplay if that’s happening.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679158#Comment_3679158
That does not excuse Nurse & Blight from getting negative changes. Nurse got nerfed because mangled change nerfed her fragile wheeze add-on. Blight his add-on nerfed, specifically his over performing 2 speed add-on's and old C33 with instant pallet break. He got Iri tag unlimited rushes and unlimited turning changed. Hens team lost to Trickster. A killer who received substantial buffs in recent time.
I never thought it did. I would nerf both of them if it was up to me.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3679158#Comment_3679158
Supposedly, SWF is also playing a different game.
If you were talking about Solo vs Nurse/Blight, I'd say sure, that makes sense. It's silly to compare the weakest role to the strongest.
However, even comp SWF's stacking busted stuff don't get ANYWHERE near that.
Even Clown has a higher winstreak than the best SWF.
SWF however is significantly more common than just Nurse or Blight. Yes most SWF aren’t anything like that, but I’d argue a decently good average killer streak compared to a decently good swf group is way, way less of a difference than the two we’re looking at here, which is my point.
Also, the only way you get streaks like that with most killers is through aggressive tunneling/camping. Playing “normally” would significantly reduce those streaks. I don’t care much about tunneling/camping matches as they aren’t representative of game balance and heavily dilute the gauge of that players skill level. This is why I’d like that type of play significantly hindered/removed.
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Better than the old version but still very unbalanced. So many of the loops are completely safe and forced pallet breaks with very little room for actual mind gaming. Just seeing this map your chance of winning as killer goes down a lot.
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People seem to be comparing this like a killer vs survivor streak when it’s not and that’s a bit disingenuous. This is a Nurse/Blight vs survivor streak, which is completely different. The streaks would be significantly more comparable if it was the average killer on the roster, not the S++ ones. Nurse and Blight are playing a completely different game. People are trying to use this as a killers in general are too strong from this when that’s not what’s being shown.
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3678469#Comment_3678469
Give him too many opportunities and he becomes impossible to deal with.
That doesn’t seem like too many opportunities if the survivors control the hallucinations.
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@Lemonwolf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671342#Comment_3671342
NOED is nothing compared to "some" survivor crutches. Buckle up + For the people....very "unhealthy". It gives survivors saves that are undeserved, with no counterplay. NOED is so weak right now, i haven't touched it since the change.
What does this have to do with survivor crutches? I think survivors have lots of crutches too. That's not the topic.
NOED is not weak, whatsoever.
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@Shroompy said:
They arent very well designed how ever skill checks are one of the first things new players get a good grip on. Things like Huntress' Lullaby still catches me off guard at times, Coulrophobia is also pretty difficult to deal with, and Merciless Storm on a killer like Doctor definitely isnt the easiest.
I think the concept of skill check perks are fine as is, but of course some of them do need adjustments to become viable at all skill levels
The real question is how you make them viable at all levels without hurting those newer players even more.
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@alpha5 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677833#Comment_3677833
The teleport is easily the strongest part in his kit and destroys solos. The hallucinations are much more than slowdown. They are map control. If left unchecked he can lock down an area and ambush on the other side of the map. Managing and using these is his skill ceiling though the way the hallucinations drop seems kind of clunky and opaque to be fair. This killer can play really dirty.
So why is my idea bad? Literally everything is rougher on solos. Yes the hallucinations are more than just slow down, that sounds good to me. While yes there is a tiny/very clunky bit of control you can use to their placement, they are generally speaking going to be placed randomly. My change isn't hurting his skill ceiling, it's raising it, as it's also giving him more opportunity for plays.
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The perk is fine. I rarely ever see anyone run it and never has it been an issue.
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Undone needs massive buffs to be remotely good. You could literally double it and it still looks awful.
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Sounds like people would prefer making it also block screaming and work for anyone healing you as well. This sounds more reasonable.
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@VomitMommy said:
Hallucinations are already quite good part of his power, wouldn't be better to fix the more frustrating part of his power -> weird grenade launcher...
You could go that route, but I was considering making his strengths even better and keeping his weaknesses apparent, as I stated previously.
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I personally feel he's too weak atm.
How would y'all feel about no limit or a significantly higher amount of Hallucinations that can be up? This would make some of his addons a lot more appealing and actually give him a bit of passive game slow down as the survivors would need to actually keep his hallucinations under control.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677767#Comment_3677767
I think it'd be good if you could unblock the gen you blocked at will.
Oh I like that. Wouldn't that be a hard counter for gen kick perks though now? lol
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@Ayeiann said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677687#Comment_3677687
But thats the thing, they wouldnt be limited to just that, they could have distortion and RA, both would counter killer perks, and can be brought by all 4 survivors to ruin a lot of good slowdowns and completely negate info perks, thatd be awful to face, you cant balance around just 1 survivor running it, you need to account for say, a 4man swf all running distortion and RA, or even just 4 solos running it. And it wouldnt really be a wasted perk, as both of those effects are very strong, and can make killers feel powerless against survivors.
That's a fair point. Tbh though I'd nerf Distortion as well. It's too good. What could we do for Repressed Alliance then?
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677687#Comment_3677687
Survivor perks directly countering killer perks feel bad, because you have to deal with it four times over. When I run lethal and BBQ on doctor I have two empty perk slots vs full distortion teams because they will never run out of tokens. That feels pretty bad. I also like a full block build on him; grim, DMS, deadlock thrilling tremors. If there were a perk that just turned off my entire build, even run by two survivors it'd dismantle the entire idea. May as well run actual regression at that point.
Well tbh I'd like Distortion nerfed to lower it's token generation to some blocks, rather than perma aura immunity.
What else would you give this perk then?
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@Cypherius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/408235/bite-the-bullet
Bite the Bullet could use a buff but i would rather have it be something else. We already strong anti aura read perks. I also don't like how this buff would trivialize A Nurse's Calling while being ineffective against Ultimate Weapon.
Maybe stopping screaming would be better. Counters a meta perk that is currently only countered by a sub bar perk.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677723#Comment_3677723
BBQ is still good on killers with teleports or ranged attacks. Being able to detect survivors without warning is also nice.
I have been getting good value from it on the Unknown.
Screaming block while technically a buff, is nearly meaningless. That's so niche. That perk you're referencing is not meta. For how much people complain about it, it's basically never ran at all. What else could we give the perk that's meaningful?
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/408235/bite-the-bullet
I mean have you seen Scott using it to basically heal right in the killers face and how often it worked? It is actually really interesting that people completely lose track of you like that when you stop making sounds... For that purpose it worked surprisingly well. As for mini distortion I don't know, aura reading is already not too strong compared to Gen regression or Gen block, adding more circumstances under which the perk won't work might just lead to even less usage of those perks.
I mean that's basically meme's, that doesn't work on good killers. How often did stand still Iron Will work? Nearly never. You currently see this perk like once every few months maybe? If that.
As for more things hurting aura reading compared to gen perks that's a fine point, but what else would we give it then?
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@fussy said:
Well, I think it will be good change, but don't ask killers not to bring 4 slowdown perks after this. My BBQ already barely useful with endless distortion, hiding 2 survivors with 1 perk will kill it completely.
Dude it's only while healing. Why would we complain about this when Distortion exists?
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@Ayeiann said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/408231/repressed-alliance
I personally don't think survivors need another perk to counter killer perks. I mean survivors already have several so, bit too much in my opinion.
What's wrong with perks countering the other sides things? It takes up a perk slot that could've gone to something else.
Would you rather them slap Distortion on instead? That's worse.
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@arcaneGospel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677226#Comment_3677226
Well, I think it would involve more of a full rework which I wasn't intending to suggest here, and I also think it's something of an overstated issue. I don't know if I could really think of anything that wouldn't either involve a massive overhaul to his power at a base level, which would be unnecessary, or something that might be too much or too little. Like, making it so pallet stuns get rid of them is a trade that is severely out of favor for survivors, but say, adding an item survivors could pick up outside hunts and use to kill guards would run into similar issues to Singularity, if possibly worse.
Maybe survivors could pick up the banner before it's fully charged and take a few seconds off the guard's hunt, meaning they could either take the easier, low reward version of the banner or risk waiting for it to fully charge. Though, this only really affects the Carnifex, as the banner spawns incredibly fast for the other two as it is. Maybe the method of getting rid of guards could be guard specific. I don't have any single solid suggestion I'd be satisfied with, not off the top of my head. I think keeping Knight from getting important QoL just because he has one issue--which is only an issue, I'd argue, because of how Knight is encouraged to drop guards without drawing a path right now--is a bad idea.
Tbh I'm totally fine with your changes and the speed based on distance thing I was suggesting on their own, so I agree. I don't personally have much issue with the "unhealthy" part I was talking about, but more so trying to give a fair tick for tack if you will since any time I suggest Knight buffs people bring it back up and how they want it fixed and how they don't want him getting buffs till it is.
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That's what I was kind of thinking. Like with how popular gen blocking perks are this perk would be good enough I'd consider running it if it had that alternate use.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677236#Comment_3677236
i think it came from the MDR+Purple amulet combo. I would make her kintsugi Teacup refresh the power cooldown on successful hits and increase her base m/s by 15% so that she is 7.1 in the ability. Spirit is too slow at downing survivors when she successfully lands her ability. She has chucky cooldown syndrome problem now.
If they wanted to make her good vs best players, remove her directional sound audio in addition would make her more difficult to loop.
Yeah vs good survivors shes too slow and basically loopable.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673941#Comment_3673941
agree. he needs less hand-holding mechanics in his kit. Two of his biggest problems are survivors being able to disable his traps & survivors being able to escape his traps when caught in a trap. I would never play trapper without iri stone.
Agreed. It's too easy to get out and they should be punished for getting out of a trap on their own. Maybe a heavy action speed debuff or downed on self escape while already injured. Something.
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@francotorra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677220#Comment_3677220
She is a killer with many accessibility difficulties to play, not allow errors and whenever you face it is a guaranteed tunnel
I do think Spirit is one of the higher skill requirement killers in the game but people tend to have a “Spirit is easy” mentality that has perpetuated for a long time. She is quite punishing for misplays if you mess up I agree.
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If the kick limit was introduced to prevent 3 genning, why is it active at the start of the game, and not when there’s 3 gens left? Feel like that’s a big part of what’s making it overly hurt all the kick perks in the game.
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@arcaneGospel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677216#Comment_3677216
That's not the unhealthy part of his kit. If you wanted to say something was unhealthy, the unhealthy part is that survivors can only meaningfully interact with guards in one way. Removing Knight from that equation makes him less fun for both sides and also bad.
Then how would you fix that problem?
Your changes are some QoL but don’t address any of the core issues.
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It’s just on the verge of being something I’d consider. If it just affected all skill checks, not just gens, I’d be sold. Just not quite there for me, but very close. I wouldn’t call it bad or anything though, it’s alright.
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While I wouldn’t mind your changes, the community has a long standing vendetta against Spirit it feels like. People are going to vehemently be against any buffs to her. Really rarely ever go against her anymore.
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@arcaneGospel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3677148#Comment_3677148
I don't think preventing the Knight or other survivors from playing around a guard's targeted survivor is a good idea at all. Removing that makes him far less interactive on both sides, as well as probably just making Knight... Really bad.
As for the first suggestion, it'd be nice for applying pressure to generators and things, but I think that the guards getting buffed in relation to the length of their patrol path works better, both for chasing and as a more consistent way to buff applying pressure from afar. Guards already only barely catch survivors with their patrol radius.
I can see what you mean about less interaction, but the only interaction we’re losing is the Knight pinning the survivor with him and his guard and isn’t that the entire interaction we’re trying to prevent?
If we didn’t do that how would we solve that unhealthy part of his kit?
I figured the more interactivity we’d be gaining would be actually getting hits from well placed guards feeling rewarding. If they phased out we could also make his haste scale based on guard placement as well. Meaning giving him some strong chase on someone else while the guards focusing someone else.
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Love the ideas, he needs this.
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@menacing_goose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3676920#Comment_3676920
How do you think losing a game because pop and pain res feels. Those two perks carry killers alone and that’s only half of the killers perk slots. For those two perks to be as strong as they are and paired together is already bad enough but there is a meta making them that much more unbearable. Individually I don’t mind perk pain res but when paired together they are problematic especially considering that there’s two more perk slots which are more than likely going to be something that slowdown progress or drags on the game
I don’t think anyone is losing just because of pop and pain res because if they are constantly getting those that often then it means the killer is not only playing fairly but also playing better than the survivors since he’s getting so many downs. A bad killer isn’t getting value out of those.
Also to my point, what are we supposed to be running instead?
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No, it’s fine in end game. The perk is honestly extremely weak and no one runs it. It needs buffs, not nerfs.