Blueberry
Blueberry
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Good ideas. He needs it.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673006#Comment_3673006
Sure, DH aswell. Also underlines my point - DH is since the rework barely talked anymore. Here and there, but come on, i can remember the time where every day was a new "Nerf Noed, Nerf DH" thread.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3672806#Comment_3672806
You gain a little bit more consistency for effect. Overall it would actually be only a slight nerf, if even.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3673012#Comment_3673012
Feel free to make suggestions.
@Blueberry said:
-Killer edition-
There will be a survivor version to follow.
Disclaimers:
- These are not necessarily the "best" changes possible, but simply the best changes for the least amount of developer time invested. Trying to get more perks into the viable category, ie buffing/reworking weak perks that are barely used. This isn't a post for nerfing any overperforming perks nor is it implying perks don't need nerfs. We're just focusing on weak ones here and diversifying the meta by giving more perk options.
- I will be constantly updating/changing/adding to the list as I have more time and as feedback is received. Please stick to constructive criticism for changes. IE, this is good or bad and why.
- Keep in mind that even though some of these may seem heavy handed that they are competing with regression perks for a perk slot. They need to be close in terms of the amount of time saved to compete with those.
Nurses Calling: 28 meter range ----> Now 32
Not a bad perk, but still rarely seen. Not a significant buff, but a little. I also think with how good Distortion is it's very hard for aura perks to ever get too out of control as if they ever got meta Distortion can completely shut them down. For this reason I'll be a little more giving in terms of buffing aura perks in general going forward.
Awakened Awareness: Return the few seconds of aura reading extension after carrying a survivor.
This was originally removed because of Nurse. However, we shouldn't be building/nerfing an entire game around 1 single killer, that isn't good design. Nurse needs changes separately.
BBQ: 4 sec aura reading ----> Additional effect: the minimum range for the aura reading will shrink slightly for each unique survivor hook.
Since the removal of the BP bonus this perk has basically disappeared. This further encourages "fair" game play. It's also competing against gen regression perks for a slot.
Beast of Prey: In addition to its current effect, gain Undetectable for 10 seconds after dropping a chase.
Triggers very often but for a very short duration. Gives some potential target swapping mind games.
Blood Echo: 45 sec duration ----> 60 sec duration. Removal of the cooldown.
This rewards a killer for applying split pressure instead of tunneling people out, this is the kind of game play we want to encourage. Also has the counter play of simply healing.
Blood Warden: Should be active as soon as the gates are powered, not open, but doesn't start the 60 second block until the gate is opened. In addition there will be a gate block of 15 seconds added for any future hooks. If it's currently blocked this adds to the timer and if it's open it just blocks for those 15 seconds.
Punishes them for 99'ing the gates and encourages them to open immediately.
Bloodhound: In addition to its current effect it now gives blood aura reading at a very short range, something like 10 meters.
This perk is basically non existent and this might give it some actually tracking use for people that stay injured or mind games at loops. It also makes blood last significantly longer so the blood auras aren't going to be super accurate all the time. This ideally isn't helping you mind game at loops because of how lingered the blood is, it's more of a way of knowing where injured survivors are that are near you but further than hearing range.
Brutal Strength: 20% increased break speed ---> 30% break speed and ups the base gen kick regression to 5%
Pretty underwhelming perk and still not used enough. Little umph.
Claustrophobia: Instead of vault locations being blocked around the completed gen they will now be blocked for the duration around the killer.
Give it more use since you rarely need vault locations blocked around a gen already completed.
Coulrophobia: Effect will linger for 10 seconds after leaving the killers TR.
A lingering effect like this needs to honestly be applied to almost all aura effecting perks to make them more consistent. People don't heal in a killers TR.
Coup De Grace: Now gives tokens per gen and hook.
Just a terrible perk. Giving it a little more consistency. Everyone hates the current token system.
Dark Devotion: Undetectable on Obsession hit is currently 30 seconds -----> 60 second duration
Not rewarding enough for the inconsistency of the perk.
Deathbound: Remove the range requirement.
It still has the counter play of staying near the person you healed to prevent it from triggering.
Deerstalker: 36 meter range ---> No range limit and slows slugged crawl speed by 20%
Dissolution: Remove the 3 second delay on hit for the perk to activate.
Needs more consistency, you're rarely getting value.
Dragon's Grip: Cooldown of 80 seconds ---> 40 seconds
Dying Light: Remove the healing and unhooking bonus to the Obsession and the perk no longer deactivates when the Obsession dies, the perk simply freezes wherever it was at with tokens and you can't gain any more.
The perk isn't good enough to warrant all the downsides it has. It needs to be a perk with very little effect early on and only becomes noticeable if you can keep the game going long enough.
Fearmonger: Duration of 5 seconds ---> 10 seconds
5 seconds of Exhausted is basically worthless as you can easily lose this mid chase.
Enduring: 50% stun reduction ---> 70% stun reduction and is now active even while carrying a survivor.
Fire Up: Just upping the numbers to actually matter. 4% ----> 8%
This now makes the percentage actually relevant and moves its strength from late game to early game.
Forced Penance: Increase the consistency of what is considered a "protection hit".
This is an extremely inconsistent perk with protection hits very rarely happening. Make it so hits would be considered "protection hits" if another survivor was within like 10m of that survivor in that last 10 seconds or so. This would have it activate more often to be worth running.
Furtive Chase: The TR reduction is now outside of chase as well as in chase.
This makes it irrelevant early game but the longer the game lasts the more effective it becomes. Yes this can stack with Monitor and that can get their TR quite low, but remember this takes a while to stack up and he's getting up 2 perk slots to do this. If he doesn't get a lot of hooks it's doing nothing. Rewards playing well.
Gearhead: Remove the stipulation of requiring an injured survivor to activate it, it's just always active. However, it now only activates on great skill checks instead of good ones.
This makes it very good against good survivors and bad against bad survivors, just the kind of design we're looking for. It also means the perk is active way more often, but now triggering less often.
Grim Embrace: On top of its current effect it now also blocks all gens for 15 seconds for each first hook on a new survivor.
This gives it the same blocking power of Corrupt and Deadlock but unlike those you're only getting that effect by playing in an extremely fair way and splitting hooks instead of tunneling 1 person. This encourages fun game play and rewards the killer for doing it.
Hangmans Trick: 6 meters around a hook ---> 10 meters
Needs more consistency.
Hex Crowd Control: Now blocks windows for any type of vault, not just fast ones and duration is raised to 30 seconds instead of 20. All vaulting speeds for survivors are lowered by 20 percent as well.
This is a hex perk, it needs to be significant in effect for how fast it can be gone.
Hex Face the Darkness: Screams trigger every 25 seconds with auras shown for 2 seconds ---> Every 15 seconds auras are shown for 3 seconds.
Not good enough for being a hex that can be removed immediately. We improved the proc rate and aura reading but removed the scream to prevent it from preventing itself from being cleansed. Removing the scream also prevents the survivor from knowing you see them.
Hex Huntress Lullaby: 6% regression ---> 10% regression, also has no token build up and just has the 5 token effect by default.
Not good enough for being a hex.
Hex Retribution: Oblivious when interacting with a dull totem for 45 seconds ---> Oblivious when interacting with any totem period and Oblivious effect is now 60 seconds. Hex Retribution is no longer a hex perk itself.
This gives the perk more umph and consistency with the perk itself not being removable too early.
Hex Ruin: 100% regression ---> 200% regression
The perk wasn't over tuned and only rewarded players who were good at pressuring multiple survivors. Just tunneling one person out makes you get very little effect out of this perk. We are also leaving the additional new effect on, so if anyone is killed it cleanses itself.
Hex Third Seal: No longer requires a hit and is active on all survivors from the start of the match. The blindness effect also hides survivor huds and the ping effect survivors see when a survivor is hooked.
This makes the perk more consistent by getting value out of it immediately and the blindness now actually adds more confusion than previously as they can't tell who's injured or on the ground.
Hex Thrill of the Hunt: Same effect, but is no longer a hex itself.
This makes it more consistent in protecting your other totems as the perk itself will give you its full value.
Hoarder: Additionally interacting with any chest or item on the ground will trigger Hoarder and injure the survivor as a trap. Cannot down any survivor however, only healthy to injured status.
Hubris: 20 second duration ---> 40 second duration and no cooldown
Sounds extreme but once they know you have this perk they just pre drop everything and you get zero value.
Hysteria: Lasts 30 seconds with a 30 second cooldown ---> Lasts 30 seconds, no cooldown
Easily countered by healing.
I'm All Ears: Cooldown of 40 seconds ----> Cooldown of 20 seconds
More consistent value. It's competing against gen slow down perks.
Iron Maiden: Survivors leaving lockers are Exposed for 30 seconds ----> Exposed effect removed, instead the killer is granted Undetectable for 60 seconds and the survivors aura is shown for 8 seconds.
Once they see the Exposed or how fast you open lockers they know you have this perk and won't use lockers again heavily limiting your value. 30 seconds of Exposed is also rarely ever enough to do anything. This allows you to get value from it without that survivor knowing immediately that you have it further increasing your chance of continuously getting value from it. Still will be very easy for the survivors to see you have it with how fast you open lockers and survivors in general don't use lockers too often.
Lethal Pursuer: Small wording change. Instead of aura timed durations increased by 2 seconds, it will now just make aura effects linger for 2 seconds longer.
Seems minor but actually creates more synergy with other perks and addons. Now it's not just working with timed aura durations but also makes aura effects linger. For example, things like Nurses Calling aren't timed aura durations so they wouldn't have been effected, but now with this change after they stop healing in your TR the auras would still linger for 2 seconds longer.
Lightborn: It now shows the survivors that they have blinded you just like it would have appeared normally if you weren't running the perk. This allows you to get more consistent value from the perk because when the survivor tries to blind you they won't immediately know that you're running the perk. Also when they try to blind you, gain a 5% speed increase for 8 seconds.
Mad Grit: Additional effect. While carrying a survivor your hits will also cause Deep Wounds.
Still an extremely nitch perk but there for the people that never want to get body blocked. Also the entire team will know you have it after getting its effect even once meaning you'll never see it again.
Oppression: Cooldown of 80 seconds ---> 30 seconds
One of the weaker slow down perks and would still be one of the weaker ones after this. Giving it a little more umph.
Overwhelming Presence: Survivors in your TR are effected ---> map wide
Honestly not good enough for such a limitation. Still very niche even with this.
Predator: Additional effect. Now also increases the sound of running and walking footsteps.
Remember Me: Each Obsession hit increases gate opening time by 4 seconds up to a maximum of 16 seconds ---> Gates take 12 seconds longer to open and you gain 12 additional seconds per Obsession hit up to a maximum of 48 seconds added. Gates now also regress at 25% of the normal rate if not opened.
Not adding as much as No Way Out does, but giving it the added bonus of gate regression to play around. Note that the regression rate is very, very slow.
Scourge Hook Gift of Pain: The survivor suffers a 16% penalty to healing and repairing actions each time they are unhooked until healed, not just the first time they are healed until injured as it currently is.
Perk needs more consistency, it's currently just not good enough to warrant the slow down only happening once. This lasting until healed now punishes gen rushing and makes them take the time to heal.
Septic Touch: These effects linger for 10 seconds after a healing action is interrupted by any means ---> These effects linger for 30 seconds after a healing action is interrupted by any means or completed. This aura effect lingers on survivors for 10 seconds after leaving the killers TR.
Still probably bad, trying to give it something.
Shattered Hope: Whenever you snuff a boon, all survivor auras are shown to you for 8 seconds, not just those in the totems radius. Also allows the killer to break dull totems.
Needed more. Current iteration is too situational and even in its good situation underwhelming.
Spies from the Shadows: 36 meter range for a visual queue and a 5 second cooldown ---> Map wide, aura reveal of that survivor for 2 seconds and no cooldown.
Was too situation for a weak effect. Now it's more consistent and an effect you can capitalize on more. The no cooldown won't spam you either as it's now an aura reading instead of noise notification.
Surveillance: Doesn't deactivate on gens that reach 0% regression. Essentially the effect lasts until touched.
Just some more consistency, rarely is it used.
Terminus: The broken status will last the rest of the match instead of just 30 seconds after gates are opened. Additionally any survivor injured while this perk is active will be broken for 30 seconds.
No one uses this. You need lots of people broken when the last gen pops to even see value out of this period. It needed a lot more consistency.
Territorial Imperative: New Effect to replace the old. While a survivor is hooked in the basement and you are at least 32 meters away you gain Undetectable. Deactivates if you return within 32 meters of the hooked survivor.
This rewards you for basement hooking and not camping. Good design.
Thanatophobia: Revert the last nerf.
Even in its last form and on the best killers for it (plague and legion) it wasn't overpowered. Even our current gen regression perks are better than that old combo. No one uses this perk anymore, it's just bad.
Thrilling Tremors: Blocks gens not being repaired for 16 seconds, cooldown of 60 seconds ---> Blocks gen not being repaired for 25 seconds, no cooldown, but can only be triggered once per survivor per down.
Removed the cooldown and increases the duration for more consistency but with a stipulation to prevent abuse.
Trail of Torment: No longer shows the gen highlighted in yellow to the survivors. Cooldown of 60 sec ---> 45 sec
Showing the survivors you're running the perk and when it's active defeats the entire point.
Unnerving Presence: 10% greater chance of triggering skill checks ---> 20% chance. Aura effect of this also now lingers for 10 seconds after survivors leave the killers TR.
Needed more consistency. Also still has the downside of actually helping survivors if they're good at skill checks.
Unrelenting: 30% reduced cd on missed swings ---> 40%
Merciless Storm: Remove the skill check component. It just blocks gens for 20 seconds when they reach 90%.
This wouldn't be that crazy, it's just comparable to other gen blocking perks.
A couple are out of date but mostly still relevant.
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@Raconteurminator said:
The march to fix all the perks that don't need fixing continues inexorably.
Yeah I kind of wish the community would focus more on buffing all the other bad perks more.
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Why protection hit for only 10 seconds? Make it anytime during the perks active duration. If it has this I’m mostly fine with everything else.
I do think it should be downing another survivor deactivates it though, not just hooking.
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@canonjack001 said:
I think she should be reverted to first rework version, because it allows both sides to have counter play to each other.
In current version survivors can completely deny her power by just closing TV before doing gens.
You mean the global condemn version? That was my favorite version
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I mean it has fair counter play by just letting go before GE activates and its activation is completely predictable as others have already said. I don’t see the issue.
I’d also say a meta of gen blocking is much healthier than the stacked regression we’ve had in the past that keeps making you hold m1 even longer.
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I like going against killers with weaker anti loop but they have tons of map pressure through map mobility and some game slow down mechanic that gives them more time. This is also what I prefer playing as well. More macro game play and less micro essentially.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671960#Comment_3671960
I can get behind the down the other survivor and lose it part, but however I don't think it should go away simply by interacting with something because then you may as well not even have DS at all , there are alot of times even though its not smart gameplay the killer drops chase completely to make their way back after a unhook to tunnel, so if it takes them time to come back and a survivor hops on a generator nearby you think they should lose DS for that? Let's be real the only killers that DS can really affect are ones that go out of the way to tunnel at this point in time unlike the origins of where it began, I feel like alot of the hate towards DS is PTSD from the bullshittery of the old days where it was just out of control with how powerful it was.
"and a survivor hops on a generator nearby you think they should lose DS for that?"
Absolutely 100%. They have to recognize if they think they are safe and want to advance the game objective. If they are touching a generator they are not being tunneled. If you think he could be trying to tunnel you shouldn't be touching a gen and then you are safe.
"Let's be real the only killers that DS can really affect are ones that go out of the way to tunnel at this point in time"
Generally I agree. I think if another person is downed after you've been unhooked you aren't being tunneled. Tunneled does not mean you go on the hook twice in a row, it means he's ignoring everyone else and only targeting you. If someone else gets downed after you've been unhooked then you aren't being tunneled and have "generally speaking" had a fair chance at life again.
Similar to how if you were the last person hooked but I'm looking for anyone and I just happen to run into you again, that's not tunneling. There has to be intent in other words and purposefully ignoring others.
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I agree. This is gonna be a very hard perk to balance. It feels like it could very easily bounce between very bad and way too strong quite easily. I think it will end up being better later on after people stop expecting it a ton right at launch (everyone's gonna be basement checking). However even after it gets better because people aren't expecting it as much will it be "good enough"? I lean towards it being on the weaker side overall at the moment for most matches..however potentially very good in a coordinated 4 man? This perk will need a lot more testing I think to give it a good judgement compared to most perks which are discernible at face value.
I tend to dislike perk design though that's "bad for solo's and good for swf". I think we should try to aim more for the opposite.
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Honestly I don't even want buffs or reworks to his current kit, it's just boring, even if it was "good". I wish they'd bring back old Freddy and just improve on that. It actually was fun and very unique in design/play.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671951#Comment_3671951
Guys I think we can trust this one. It doesn’t seem like it was programmed to harm the crew.
Nothing sketchy here haha
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While I do think current DS is still actually very good and people underrate it tremendously, I wouldn't mind if it was returned to 5 seconds as long as I never see it if I'm not intentionally trying to tunnel and should not be able to be used aggressively like before. Old version would hit you ALL the time when not tunneling and survivors would try and force it on you. Its perimeters for deactivating need to be very soft to where basically touching anything that's not a window or pallet turns it off and if I down another survivor I think it should deactivate as well.
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I can't speak for the system of how it works.
However it's kind of a tough situation when it comes to giving "Trusted" to the really active forum members ( I would think ). As typically when they're extremely active on the forums just through being a human you make some bad posts or accidentally break a forum rule here or there. It's in other words very hard to post that often and be that extremely active while still having a "pristine" record if you will. Which I would imagine would make it hard to get a Trusted title I would think. I've made a few mistakes myself, it's hard not to after so many posts. Some of us highly active people can also come off a bit abrasive in our posts as well, it happens when you're extremely passionate about something unfortunately, even if you do try your best. We just love this game that much.
Maybe it's just for super positive people on the forums though, not necessarily most active? Not sure.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671632#Comment_3671632
that is actually a good argument plus if noed is in every game that first unexpected noed hit does not hit so hard and does not strik fear into the survs
And it would be the mandatory secondary objective people have been asking for ages. Seems like the perfect secondary objective too. They’re memorizable and we even have tons of totem perks if people are having trouble with them. They can even give a built in totem counter if it’s an issue.
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It ultimately does hurt the weaker/m1 killers the most unfortunately.
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Honestly both survivor and killer mmr changes would be measured significantly better if they used the old emblem system instead. Which if that’s the case why do we use mmr at all instead of that system? Exactly. We shouldn’t lol
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@biggybiggybiggens said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/407481/noed-is-problematic
You'll be glad I'm not in charge then. I'd make NOED a basic mechanic of the game. Do totems. Easy.
Even though we feel opposite about NOED and I dislike it, I would actually like the idea of it being a basekit mechanic. This seems contradictory of me, but it’s actually because then we’d basically never see NOED actually come into play as now totems would be a mandatory secondary objective which would actually be good for the game.
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I don’t see this map as a 50/50 at all. I see it as pretty survivor sided bar some specific killers. It’s also extremely boring. So many safe loops with a large amount of pallets. Just pre drop everything since they’re almost all forced breaks and the gens should be done by the time you run out if your team isn’t wasting time.
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I personally love the map on both sides.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3671342#Comment_3671342
But that logic could very well be extendet to most perks.
Is an escape due to adrenaline undeserved?
Is a kill undeserved if made possible by no eay out?
Is a kill undeserved when you used bamboozle tocut of the survey way?
I agree that noed is a cruch but not more then other strong perks and I agree that its not good if new killers only rely on it to get any kills at all. But i would not call the perk u healthy just because survivor often have the entitlement to think the game ends when the gens are done
You’re using flawed comparisons as that actually can’t be applied to most perks.
Adrenaline has a risk of not seeing value from you dying before getting to end game, not being injured, already being exhausted ect ect.
NWO gives you time to make a skilled played, if you’re bad you still get nothing. NOED gives you the haste to ignore the balance of loops and instant down. Very little skill requirement here and you’re almost always getting the value.
Bamboozle may get you through faster or cut off a loop but if you’re still bad at killer you’re probably not gonna get the hit. You also run heavy rng that you may get many maps without any good window use. High risk.
My issue with it has nothing to do with thinking the game is over ones the gates are powered. It’s an imbalance between the value it gives, lack of risk involved, lack of rng involved, and lack of skill required. This is what distinguishes it from all the comparisons you provided. They are not the same.
There’s a difference between perks giving you an “opportunity” to make a “skilled” play and capitalize on the situation and a perk just giving it to you for basically free.
Like for example a kill I got for chasing someone down is earned but a kill I got from just camping at a guy on the hook and staring him down is not. Big difference.
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I agree NOED is an unhealthy perk and a crutch. Note I don’t think it’s OP, just unhealthy. It gives killers kills that were undeserved.
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Lots of very good ideas and points. I agree with most all of it.
Personally I found my love of Onryo from her global condemn version which was by far my favorite of every version we’ve seen. It was actually a completely different play style from many killers and felt unique. This is why I’d rather just return to that version with improvement tweaks ideally.
I feel like every time a killer has a unique play style they nerf/rework it back into being more copy/pasta like the rest the killers. Current Sadako lacks what made her unique to me.
As you’ve mentioned in your post already, why does she need a lullaby/visual terror radius? It defeats the entire point of being a stealth killer..which she’s supposed to be..but literally isn’t right now as no one gets surprised by her. This stuff shouldn’t exist. Make her stealth actually be stealth. Force survivors to look around, not spoon food it to them.
Given that her manifest/demanifest has realistically very, very little strength let’s be honest. It shouldn’t slow you down at all going between them and should give more benefit than it currently does.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670594#Comment_3670594
I miss global condemn version as well. Playing Sadako vs strong teams feels miserable now :(
Yup :/ my favorite thing about the global condemn is it actually gave me counter play to those survivors that just stay hidden all game dragging it out and wasting all our time. Then I could force them into the game.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670548#Comment_3670548
i am saying this because strength of the shadow is circle of healing without any setup. The location is always the basement. my leaning is that killer will have little to no pressure on the match with sloppy change and potent self-healing.
Well I wouldn’t compare it to CoH as one of the biggest issues with CoH is that it’s 1 perk for the entire team while this still requires each survivor to run it. That’s a big difference by itself. Also placements of CoH were significantly more convenient than the basement is on average going to be.
Like I said it still may actually be too good, I’ll have to test it more. First impression is it won’t be that much of an issue though. I could be totally wrong.
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Current Sadako feels so weak unless survivors don’t know what they’re doing. Which is what caused her nerf in the first place, not her actually being too good. I miss the global condemn Sadako version. That was the first time she was actually fun and good.
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I lean towards it being weak side, not that bad though. However self healing can never be “good” for the health of the game. So any self healing needs to be on the weak side unfortunately. You take things like this for the convenience, not the efficiency basically.
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FNAF feels like only a matter of time to me for how requested it is.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670332#Comment_3670332
i think this is not thread topic but what do you think about strength of the shadow? I recall you saying that self-healing should never be viable mechanic. What do you think about new update that makes self-healing a viable mechanic?
Yeah for the health of the game it can never be good. I’ll have to test it out to see myself before I give too strong of an opinion on it. The basement sounds risky at face value but very rarely are killers just randomly checking the basement. Also seems very map dependent. Some maps the basement is way out of the way and it looks bad but others have a very centrally located basement where it’s always easy to get to.
I lean towards it still being weak and not an issue since it’s only a little better from PTB testing but PTB is generally not accurate testing as the players are much worse then you’d get on live so we’ll have to see.
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Sounds like your killer mmr just might be higher than your survivor one.
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@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670158#Comment_3670158
I agree with you that some maps are unbalanced and the developers need to fix them. So I am happy that they made an own forum to talk about them. Even though this might take a long long time.
However, maps will never be really balanced over all. Maps will still have parts that one side can abuse really well and as a result they will use a map offering to abuse this part. Map offerings will be an unhealthy part of the game. Players will also use map offerings for their advantage and an unfair advantage. Sorry to say that but the proof is already made by the introduction of kill switch because player abused gamebreaking bugs for their "fun". Lastly, there's also no argument that they should stay just because they make some meme builds viable such as indoor jumpscare myers. Just because three or four builds are only viable on specific maps does not mean the bigger part has to suffer.
Overall, map offerings are an issue on their own.
I guess we just fundamentally disagree then. I do think maps can be made decently balanced and you do not.
If I thought maps couldn’t be decently balanced then I would think map offerings were an issue on their own as well. However since I don’t agree on that premise I do think map offerings are still just a symptom of map balance and not an issue of their own.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670083#Comment_3670083
BVHR doesn't balance maps. they balance killer to play on said map. if killer good, they perform well on all maps and if the killer sucks then they perform bad. In other worse, nurse good, rest bad.
If we’re gonna go that route and try to just work around said maps then I’d rather them just make the killers even better to compensate for having poor map mobility. I’d rather not go just increasing their move speed.
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I’d just like them to make survivors have to pull the knives out in an animation. Gives him a little extra slow down and makes even non injures with knives mean something. Make it optional though, so they can choose to be faster to down next time they run into him or do the animation.
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@HolyDarky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3670103#Comment_3670103
mb thought it was self-explanatory. Map offerings are still a hot topic within the community because one simple offering can give you a huge advantage - e.g. survivor can use a badham offering to send the match to badham which is a pretty strong survivor map or a nurse can send you to midwich with the right perks. In addition, every map has strong tools in someway which one side can easily advantage of with the right perks and when they know the match will be on this map. In addition, even though a survivor uses a map offering, it can be bad for other survivors when its used for some stupid archive (like using a midwich offering for staying in terrorradius).
Now the point is that even though there are many posts and topics inside and outside of this forum about it that the developers never gave a statement what they think about map offerings and this just feels bad - it's like your entire class asks the teacher questions but the teacher never answers. I don't even want a final statement but something like "it's on our watchlist and give feedback in like 3years" or even "no we think everything is fine atm" would be enough. Knowing where we stay.
This is more of an issue with maps being very unbalanced than it is map offerings. So if maps were better balanced no one would care about map offerings. Attacking the offerings seems like going after the symptom rather than the disease itself.
Pushing for map balance is better as then even if rng gives you whatever map it’s not a big deal. Disease cured.
If you go at map offerings then rng can still just land you on those bad maps and you’re still having a bad experience since the sickness is still there.
Maps offerings also just add a little fun for when you’re trying to run specific fun builds that require certain maps. I like that flexibility.
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The locker spawns are quite an issue.
His teleport is also just way too slow against any even half decent survivor. Even minimizing their reaction time by teleporting when you break line of sight and stacking teleport speed addons it’s still too slow to catch them off guard.
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This would never happen as queues would be astronomical. However what could reasonably happen is a BP incentive based on how little a killer is being played to encourage people to use less played ones more. Essentially the same thing we have for survivor/killer queues.
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What the issue?
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I like having some slower killers that rely on their powers to down. The hold W problem is more of a map size issue.
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@nValentine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669024#Comment_3669024
nope. gens used to take around 120/140 seconds if you play legion with thana and penti after the meta shack up in 2022.
Oh well now you’re also combining penti into it as well, which is easily removable or ignored depending how the team wants to play it. Penti also requires the killer to actually play well, it’s not free. Do you think stacking those was more gen slow down overall then the meta we have now of stacking the other gen regression perks or gen blocking perks? I’d argue at best it’s the same if not worse than what we have now. Also the best case scenario with something like Legion is kind of balanced out by the fact of Legion being bad in general. Most killers aren’t that effective at keeping the entire roster permanently injured and is also them committing to spreading pressure rather than tunneling, so it’s asking them to play more fair, which is handicapping them in itself.
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@nValentine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669018#Comment_3669018
right. thats why when they started " FIXING " these stuff they are losing players.
right. midwich and old haddonfield are not compare able i agree. but if i wanna be like you i'd say versing a nurse or a blight "good killers you know, same concept of versing good survivors on haddonfield" on midwich is gg right? on the flip side old freddy and blight used to be able to win on haddonfield.
balance is boring. balanced DBD is like racing with time, you either do GENS 1 second after the match starts. or you simply die because you won't have resources to use ;)
You’re confusing correlation with causation. Them losing players does not mean your reason is why just because that also happened. Ice cream sales go up in the summer and so does crime. Does that mean ice cream sales are causing increases in crime? Of course not, it’s correlation. We shouldn’t draw conclusions so quickly from things matching up.
Your comparison of nurse and blight to Haddonfield only works if I didn’t also want changes to those killers as well. Which I do.
You’re equating fun to having imbalanced things. Maybe that’s you personally but is not objective as obviously fun is subjective. I find balance more fun as fun for me is winning or losing based on my skill, not winning or losing because of balance problems.
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Boring, little skill expression, weak, and I honestly just think he looks bad.
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Bar some bad rng Coal Tower is one of the most balanced maps in the game and the size that they should scale all other maps around.
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@YuffieGreatestWaifu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662561#Comment_3662561
Three mins into a game Bubba hooks player basement 2 others go to save it its over because Bubba has that instant down because you cant talk or communicate.
Like I said, skill issue. A Bubba with someone hooked in basement..very rarely should you be risking that unless you know he’s not down there. Second, two of y’all going down. If you can see another person not on a gen and not in chase then you shouldn’t be going because you know he’s going for it. This was multiple bad plays.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669183#Comment_3669183
for me to select an instant down perk, it has to give around 4 instant downs per game. none of those are going give me 4 instant downs consistently. sloppy butcher is only perk that allowed you to do that because in many instances, you could chain down hook survivors and prevent them from healing leading to many instant down's. haunted ground is closest out of those but your more likely to get 1 or 2 downs.
that is what it needs to compete with game-delay and it is not there at all.
Yeah 4 down sounds about right. Less than that isn’t providing equivalent to another slow down.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669158#Comment_3669158
Hex:Haunted ground for me is most consistent expose perk. I nearly always trigger it when running devour hope. You get even more odds if undying is used. I get like 1-2 downs of haunted ground per game but it is not worth it because you like... lose most your entire build.... leading to perkless-type gameplay..
Other options are not good.
Iron maiden is crap
Starstruck is too short of duration
Dragon grip has too long of cooldown and activation time is a joke.
Friend till end is too short duration.
Make your choice is too predictable and it creates false sense of security to purposely proxy camp in admiration of a reward. I prefer playing offensive and this perk makes me play defensive. Survivors will often like delay unhooks when you get value out of it.
Hubris requires you to run enduring spirit fury and I hate using enduring spirit fury. waste of perks slots.
Rancor & Noed are end game perks so they're not good for building pressure in mid game.
Yeah I agree. This kind of illustrates why everyone runs the same perks, most the others are just so bad.
When it comes down to it dbd is all about time management. The perks that give you the most time back are the ones you pick and in almost all cases that’s just gen slow down perks bar a few exceptions.
Like if I’m going to run a chase perk for example it needs to save me more than I’d save just running another slow down. However most are tuned so low that they do not.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669117#Comment_3669117
i prefer -healing. in their mangled update, they also weakened gift of pain. a perk genre that i wish was stronger in dbd for killer is exposed genre. there is no good expose perks besides devour hope which for me get cleansed after 1 down or hex:haunted grounds. sloppy was only perks for an exposed related play-style through anti-healing.
that is why i miss thanatophobia. it was good gen defence perk while being good for fishing 1 hits downs. sloppy filled that minor niche.
Yeah it’s too bad, Sloppy will be dead if the changes go through.
Wild to see Gift of Pain nerfed as well, I already thought it was trash before.
DH is probably the only okay exposed perk and it’s honestly too rng for me. It will do nothing on most matches but the one it stays up it will win it for you.
I always thought Haunted Grounds was trash and I still do. One of those way overhyped perks to me. If both totems stayed up, not just one, then maybe I’d consider it alright. Maybe.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3669024#Comment_3669024
with new sloppy nerf, I wish they bring back thanatophobia with -5% healing per stack. new mangled debuff will expire or improve nurse calling. who knows, maybe rework twins is strong with mangled or something.
Well I’d personally rather them return Thana to its old stronger form on gen slow down rather than having it effect healing again. Keeps it with more clearly defined strengths and weaknesses.
Sloppy nerf itself just makes no sense. Not even something needing a nerf. They wonder why we all just stack the same gen slow downs when they nerf all the other options out of usefulness. We’re just using the only good things left. They keep the pool of actually decent perks so small and just changing the few perks in it rather than continuously adding more to increase diversity.
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Yeah those let go skill checks are very annoying. It would be nice if they fixed that.
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@nValentine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3668096#Comment_3668096
You are joking if you think it wasn't an issue. we still get red bars and its fine. 120-140 seconds gens were INSANE
It really wasn’t and you’re exaggerating on those numbers.
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@nValentine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3668108#Comment_3668108
BALANCE IS BORING. it's what making people quit dbd more than ever right now. nobody wanna do gens for over 120 seconds. have weaker loops and 6 pallets total on every map. chaotic is what made dbd fun for everyone. busted perks and mechanics is what made the game very engaging.
being able to Mori someone after their first hook. " survivors are scared and trying to avoid that "
unbalanced maps. going to old haddonfield as killer was challenging knowing you have to do your best to compete. next match you get midwich and the coin flips survivors have to try their best.
escaping through hatch when one survivors dies and 1 gen left " different objective " which people want since years.
things like this is what made me and many others love DBD. not the current state with people just racing with time by just sitting at gens because knowing the survivor that being chased are going down no matter how good their looping is. ITS BORING.
i personally would remove base kit BT because that was also something fun questioning:
" did they bring BT ? "
" please don't farm me off hook "
" i should bring DS in case my teammate not gonna bring BT "
etc.
Balance is not boring. I’ve seen zero reason to think that. Also, none of those things you mentioned are what I’m asking for so that’s strawmanning or just hyperbolic.
Balancing moris was not making it boring, it was fixing unbalanced stuff.
Comparing old Haddonfield to Midwhich is a joke. Midwich is a more killer sided map but very easily winnable on survivor. Old Haddonfield was not just more survivor sided…it was you’re losing as killer unless the survivors are just really bad. Those maps are not even remotely comparable. Fixing this was not making the game more boring.
Escaping through a hatch early when losing isn’t a different objective, it’s a free pity escape. Fixing this was not making it boring.
Going down no matter how good their looping is, is just factually false. Most the issues with current dbd have nothing to with any of the things you’ve mentioned.
I don’t feel like fixing any of the things you’ve mentioned here made the game less fun, at all.