Blueberry
Blueberry
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I don’t think they need a rework at all. The hate for slugging is irrational.
The reason they aren’t played a lot because of so many bad changes that were done to them over the years that just made them less fun. Such as the the 5 second stun on Victor down.
They also have some flaws that make them less fun that they’ve had since the beginning, such as never putting a real negative to taking Victor hostage.
So no rework, they just need improvements to their design. Remove the excessive stun on successful Victor pounce and give an actual downside to taking Victor. Basically revert all the nerfs they gave them since their release, they were all completely unnecessary and just made them less fun.
Lastly they have so many bad addons that don’t make sense. Such as effects that apply when crushing an idle Victor..useless. Just make it crushing Victor period. Also most the status effect applications are way too short. They need to almost all be 60 seconds applied at minimum.
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@YuffieGreatestWaifu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662458#Comment_3662458
Or Solo Q which happens even to decent players.
I can’t remember having a game that lopsided in many, many months while in solo queue..and I play way, way more than the average player. If this is something happening regularly it’s a skill issue, not a solo queue one.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662201#Comment_3662201
No not really all I have to do is tunnel and I can end most games by 4 or 5 gens.
Then you’re playing against bad survivors. Very bad survivors.
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@sulaiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661723#Comment_3661723
So, if the killer tunnels out the first survivor at 5 gens, the killer already won. Why not let the match just end with that first kill then?
Firstly, that doesn’t mean the killer already won.
Secondly, if one survivor is already out with 5 gens still up then those survivors probably need their mmr lowered because that isn’t happening unless they are significantly outclassed in skill.
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While tunneling and mmr are some of the core problems, the same people that want this fixed also don’t want the solution to this, which is balancing the game around good players.
Tunneling will always exist while the game is balanced around bad players since it’s forced in order to win once it’s actually good vs good. We also can’t have hypothetical “perfect” matchmaking because the game isn’t balanced for it. The poor matchmaking is there to cover up the balance problems.
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Midwich for both sides.
Contrary to popular opinion I think indoor maps are healthier for the game. Doesn’t encourage hold W game play, the loops tend to be better balanced, they’re stronger maps for some of the weaker killers and worse for some of the better ones, and finally they all tend to play uniquely from one another whereas most outdoors maps tend to play the same with just a different splash of paint on it.
I find Midwich particularly to be more aesthetically pleasing than the others and I like how it plays for both sides. Some of the more balanced chases too.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661723#Comment_3661723
There is a difference between winning in game and winning by domination.
I played against sabo squad, hooks denied. But then I was able to slug all of them. I already win (by dominating) at that point. I dont need to kill them.
hatch escaping is already a win for me (both dominating and in game rule with 3K). I dont get why should I need to make my MMR gained by double. Winning “harder” gives you nothing.
I don’t think there needs to be a distinguish between win and dominate. 3k with a hatch is a win and so is a 4K. Phrasing it as you are tries to make someone feel bad for playing the game as intended and going for a 4K.
My points were simply illustrating that the killer shouldn’t be the one solely blamed for slugging to get a 4K and also that if the game got to the point of a hatch escape being a factor that I would view that as the killer having “earned a 4K”, as at that point the only difference between 3 and 4K is a coin flip.
So the difference between win and dominating. If the killer got zero hooks and all 4 survivors are running out should we coin flip if the last survivor just gets auto placed on a hook as he runs out? I mean like you said the survivors still “won”, why the need to dominate? Why not give the killer a chance for a little since they already won.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661723#Comment_3661723
But you didn’t earn a 4K. If you didn’t kill the last survivor you didn’t earn a 4K. Hatch exists because this is an assym game and survivors need an incentive to play through the end. Other assym games don’t have a hatch but contain similar mechanics. None of them have it where if you defeat 3/4 of the opposing players you’ve won so the 4th is just served to you on a platter. That sounds silly.
Except this point doesn’t work unless the final mechanic to determine if it’s a 3 or 4K is a factor of skill. DBDs difference is just a 50/50 who runs into it first. You’re gonna tell me the 4K wasn't earned because the killer lost the rng of walking into the hatch first or who it spawned in front of, really?
As far as the component of the game that is determined by skill and your choices if you get down to a hatch play the killer earned the 4K because the survivors lost to be at that point in the first place.
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@menacing_goose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661767#Comment_3661767
My whole point though is that if I’m being slugged I don’t want to wait until I bleed out to get to my next match just because the killer wants a 4k though so you completely ignored my point and assumed that I put myself in the shoes of the last survivor wanting hatch
I didn't ignore your point at all. If you read back I actually answered it quite thoroughly. “Just because the killer wants a 4K” is a wrong statement. He didn’t want a 4K, he earned the 4K. Also, why did you choose to say that instead of “Just because the other survivor wants a free escape”? Why do you default to blaming the killer? If anything the other survivor would be more at fault.
However realistically the most at fault is neither of them as the hatch is bad in how it’s designed. Those players are just playing the way the game tells them to if they want to win. IE push for game design changes, not blaming the killer is my point.
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@menacing_goose said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661723#Comment_3661723
If you’re that concerned over it being a hatch offering and it won’t be a 50/50 if you’re so worried about a single hatch escape which isn’t guaranteed you care fat too much for the game the one extra kill quite literally isn’t doing anything for you since a 3K is a win anyway
Generally aren’t many hatch offerings so it’s usually a 50/50. You ignored most of my points though. I could just as easily say the fourth survivor cares far too much for that one game and that escape, see how that goes both ways?
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I mean the killer doesn’t want the last survivor to get a free pity escape for no reason when he won and that last survivor wants his chance at the free pity escape.
They both equally could choose to end the match earlier if they wanted so I don’t see why it’s more focused negatively towards the killer when they are both at fault.
At least the killer has the stance that he’s basically won the game since they’re at that point to begin with meaning they’re doing it because they feel like they’ve earned the 4K. While the survivor hasn’t earned it since they’ve essentially lost, it’s a pity win for them. I’d be more likely to blame the last survivor hiding and waiting for the hatch than I would the killer.
If the end game was less of a “I won but I’m still forced to play a 50/50 of whether I get the 4K I earned” you’d see less killers slug like that. This is why I don’t mind getting slugged in this scenario, the killer doing it makes sense. Imagine if we 4 escaped as survivors with the killer getting zero hooks but right as the last survivor is running out he’s forced to flip a coin of whether he dies and the killer gets a free kill just..because. That sounds silly right? That’s what hatch is.
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Dredge
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The only problem with solo queue is bad teammates and the matchmaking. Neither of which is realistically fixable.
The more we just try to give buffs to solo queue the more we make every game a “swf” match of which the game is absolutely not balanced around which would mean more killer buffs..but most everyone wanting solo queue buffs also wouldn’t be cool with that.
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Totally unnecessary change. It just pushes people into stacking more gen slow down perks and lowers perk diversity. I’ve never really heard people complain about sloppy.
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Yeah overall nerf imo. How hard is it to just throw Pig a buff without nerfing something else.
Even aside from power level, this change also makes her just less fun to play. The biggest thing I enjoyed about Pig was her macro level game play of juggling survivors and trying to multi pressure gens and boxes at the same time while mentally tracking party hat timers.
What will we have now? Oh just another killer like all the rest with some passive slow down with little interaction that just works in the background while you have some anti loop. She loses all uniqueness she had. Like what am I getting from her I can't just experience with another killer now other than aesthetics?
For how long we've been waiting on crouch/ambush fixes we didn't want it along side nerfs like this. I'd rather have current Pig than this.
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Hadn’t really thought of that but it’s extremely relevant. Like I would expect top 20% for example to give a very different result than top 5%.
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The original Freddy actually had uniqueness. He didn’t need a complete rework. Some small tweaks and buffs was all he needed.
Reworked Freddy is just a copy pasta of other killers.
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Feels fine to me
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He suffers from a couple addons being basically mandatory (Map/CTA) that need to be base kit while "most" the rest of his addons bar a couple are trash.
The guard bug where they run around a dropped pallet.
His guards should have increased move speed based on proximity placed to a survivor (requiring a minimum distance of drawing to prevent just tap drops). This raises the skill ceiling which he needs desperately while only buffing the more skilled Knights and not the lower ones.
Don't show the green circle around guards to survivors.
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@Steakdabait said:
what would you use as an example of counterplay that a perk gives?
Shattered Hope as one example.
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"They'res only 2 survivors left and one of them are slugged for the 4k."
No. If you don't like this remove hatch.
"Its honestly not fun being slugged for the 4k because really, it's just the Killer being greedy."
You mean greedy like the survivor that's just hiding for hatch and waiting for the other guy to die?
"Theres no reason to do so other than BP and bragging rights, youve already won if you hook the survivor and get a 3k"
You should feel just as strongly then about the 4th guy hiding. The killer already won, so he should just come out and give himself to the killer to move the game on faster. Why is it the killers fault for the game dragging out when BOTH sides have the option to end it whenever they want. That's a double standard.
The source of the problem is not the killer dragging the game out, it's why the game's getting drug out, which is hatch. If hatch didn't exist the games would end faster, so how about we remove that because then they wouldn't slug anymore at end game? Yeah no one wants that because the killers not entitled to the last kill but the survivor is definitely entitled to their escape. Totally makes sense.
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Surprised not to see Borgo listed.
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@thisislastyearsmodel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504212#Comment_3504212
Do you think a BP reward would be enough or would it be meaningless? For example, you could get a "first hook" score event for each survivor that gives you like 5k?
It might help a tiny bit but I'd lean toward more meaningless. Needs to be part of the pipping and MMR ranking to fully affect it.
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Bar like Fearmonger, all other killer exhaustion addons and perks are basically trash. Most of them are way too situational or the duration is way too short.
So yes, they all need to be improved.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524339#Comment_3524339
My 150 matches werent much, but the average hooks of first death was about 4.5 hooks, the average hooks of 4K matches were about 7.5 hooks.
Interesting. Do you find that seems expected or surprising? Comparing the kills to those hook amounts. Do they seems in line with the kills or off?
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524339#Comment_3524339
Maybe separately by MMR too?
That would be better, yeah.
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I would rather see hook rates than kill rates as they’re flawed for a multitude of reasons but they still would be fun to have nonetheless I agree.
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I feel the trend of what people really dislike about playing certain killers is giving the survivors such extreme, hard counter play. As in rather than the counter play being playing a certain way and being skillful, it’s lowered down to the bottom barrel skill level of, I just pick up this item or push this button and nullify the killers powers. So the killers side taking skill but the counter play requiring very little if any skill. It’s too easy and readily available. I think this has applied to quite a few killers and what people dislike so much.
This is what you get as a consequence of balancing around the lowest level of skill players. You can’t make the counter play require skill because those lower players aren’t good, you have to give them free counter play that works even if they’re bad and don’t know what they’re doing. This is how you end up with this problem in design.
If you don’t do this flawed design then you get something like Sadako where the survivors will complain a storm up because even though the counter play is readily available and easy, it’s too hard for bad players.
We just can’t keep balancing for bad players, that’s the solution. You have to present a challenge to players and have them rise to the challenge, not have the bar lowered as a participation trophy where everyone gets through.
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Tunneling/Camping isn't the problem, it's the symptom of the real problem which is poor game balance.
Killers have to feel like they can play a fun/fair game and still win if they're the better player. The problem is that isn't the case, hence the tunneling/camping. The game is currently balanced around assuming the killer will tunnel and camp so you're asking to lose if you don't.
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- Hold Tape
- Don't be bad at looping a basic m1 killer with no power
- Win
Literally it.
She only does well if people ignore the tapes or suck at looping. Both scenarios they should be punished. I've yet to be condemned by her once. She can't even do hit and run the best because her "stealth" isn't even a real stealth so you shouldn't be getting surprise hits. She has to play the loop against you for the hit.
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I prefer indoor maps on both sides and think they are overall more balanced. The indoor maps actually play different than the outdoor maps which are most of the time the same loops with a different skin on them. Most the outdoor maps just play the same. The indoor maps also tend to not have as much busted loops as the outdoor ones. Finally indoor maps actually make some of the weaker killers better which is a good thing. Outdoor maps tend to let you see the killer coming from a mile away encouraging hold w game play which no one likes.
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@JonOzzie16 said:
Oh okay, so unless it's devour or blood fury, survivors are potatoes and bad at the game for cleansing hex totems. Gotcha.
For cleansing? No, not what I said. Thinking most hexes are crazy strong if left up? Yeah, that's not true unless the survivors are bad.
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@JonOzzie16 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3521023#Comment_3521023
Hexes are usually near gens anyway so they aren't that hard to check on.
I also love the claim "most hexes can be ignored!". Killers love that one too.
"most hexes can be ignored"
Is actually true for most of them bar a few unless the survivors are complete potatoes. If the survivors are bad at the game then any hex is going to be super deadly.
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@JonOzzie16 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3520802#Comment_3520802
I love how often killer mains claim this, when it's simply not true. Yes, a hex can be cleansed early if the spawn is unlucky. But it definitely does not occur as often as killers claim. Hexes can be downright horrific if not cleansed early and can lead to snowballing of all sorts. So, smart survivors will search for them. Smart killers will patrol them.
Not a killer main and I'm sorry you think that but it is true.
"Hexes can be downright horrific if not cleansed early and can lead to snowballing of all sorts."
The vast majority of all hexes are a joke, not horrifying. Outside of like DH and maybe BF most could stay up for minutes and not be that big of a deal at all.
"Smart killers will patrol them."
No, just no. Smart killers are not patroling them because this tells smart survivors where they are. Second if you're guarding totems you aren't pressuring gens. This would be bad killer mistakes.
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@JonOzzie16 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3520677#Comment_3520677
I play daily, and I've seen it at least once a week. Maybe more. Even if it's once a year, would be way too OP with buffs to blindness. Then we'd probably be seeing it every other match.
With how easy it is to remove hex totems would it really be OP? Most hexes don’t last past 2 minutes at best.
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@JonOzzie16 said:
Blindness is fine as is. Buffing it would only hurt solo queue players. And as someone who plays mainly solo queue. I have died on hook plenty of times due to teammates not paying attention to third seal.
Do you really see third seal that often? Playing nearly all day everyday I see third seal like once every 6 months..
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@NomiNomad said:
Blindness is really only undertuned against SWF. Imo, it can be pretty decent against Solo Queue.
The real question is how do you buff it overall without affecting solo queue more?
I was thinking you could make it hide their perks on the bottom of the screen. So they couldn't see the cooldowns or timers on skills or what was active. Effects everyone equally. Quite minor but something.
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Yeah based on the stats we've seen he's got the lowest kill rates in the game. Very far below the % they usually aim killers for.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3520244#Comment_3520244
i don't know, i have played against her and i did not feel that much pressure. I did not get condemned killed yet. the match seemed fairly regular in difficulty. I did not feel overly threaten by her.
i think her current design is something that some players would likely want pig to play like without going too off-topic. survivor always downplay killer's gameplay because they dislike how they lost. nothing out of the ordinary.
I do agree with you, I haven't felt that threatened against her yet, nor have I been condemned a single time.
I know it wouldn't happen because of the low level they balance for but honestly if they made her Iri Tape base kit (too easy to remove without it for good survivors), removed her lullaby, and removed the slow down down switching between forms, she'd be quite solid against decent players. Mind you I said decent, not super good 4 man swf.
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Safe Haven is completely busted and way too good. Ridiculously over tuned.
Everything else looks terrible.
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Spamming teleport is only promoted if you have survivors either failing or ignoring her counter play with tapes. Which they should be punished for this.
I also find it generally disingenuous when some people will say they she doesn't ever chase. This is objectively false. She isn't a real stealth killer so she isn't getting free hits when she plays the hit and run play style. So to even get those hits in the first place she has to play the loops as a basic m1 with basically no power. That's as easy as it gets for survivor facing a killer at a loop.
If you do her counter play and know how to loop a killer with no power she isn't a threat.
I like her current design. On both sides it's a completely different play style from every other killer and quite engaging. People downplay it and act like it's skill less when it takes a lot of macro game play with tv's and herding survivors different directions on top of forcing you to be really good at your m1 killer basics. She takes more skill than a huge chunk of the killer roster in this current form.
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I feel like most people haven't bothered to try it because it's still just didn't look good enough to be worth even testing.
This applies to most the buffed killer perks.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3519952#Comment_3519952
cough cough at dredge's dissolution perk revealing itself to the survivor upon hit so just run forward, loop around and perk gains no value...
Basically lol
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DBD is trying to be a party game and a comp game simultaneously which is what's causing issues.
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Yeah they're a failed concept.
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There's a lot of fun to be had in the unknown. Coup De Gra is probably a bad example because they could have been seeing his longer lunges happening all match to know.
Should we all know every single person that's running Unbreakable, DH, DS? Probably not. There's a massive list of perks that would be rendered unusable if we knew they were running them.
This isn't an issue. We get surprised by perks we weren't expecting, that's the game. Good players mid match weigh their odds of a player having a certain perk given a scenario.
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Totally agree. I don't want to be forced to be a bot match.
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Both pretty equally, maybe slightly more survivor.
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I find it wild people want Lightborn nerfed, it's literally a bad perk and never worth running outside of like a new player that's still learning.
Honestly the perk needs a buff.
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@mizark3 said:
Personally I'd prefer the silencing aspect to be all encompassing. Plague puking? Silent. Clown gas coughing? SIlent. Creepy crawlies of Wesker's Ourobouros? Silent. Any Killer specific sound effect still has all of its mechanical effects, just no sound cues for them. Plague with the Iri add-on would still see the Survivor's aura when puking, but you wouldn't hear them through the wall.
This ^
Remove the negative they attached to the perk and make it silence all these killer interaction sounds. You could also include the sound of using the Plague fountains and opening vaccine boxes. Basically all sounds interacting with a killers tools on the map or their ability.