Blueberry
Blueberry
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They could make her anti loop the best one in the game and I’d still rather have her current version. We already have a dozen other killers with an anti loop, we don’t need another. Her macro play with traps is what made her unique and fun. Better anti loop isn’t making her more fun than what we’re losing, regardless of how good it is.
In a completely isolated conversation about the roar though, yes, the roar playing so early is a huge part of what makes it weak. Make it after the charge is complete.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3668520#Comment_3668520
Not really mocking in any sense, just a funny illustration of the scenario that goes on in the forums quite frequently for whatever reason. No different than if you typed it out but the OP wanted to be creative and there's no harm in that. 👍️
It’s extremely different from if someone typed it out. It’s a funny illustration where the person who disagrees is the center of the joke making it funny. That’s the definition of mocking.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3668509#Comment_3668509
Can we stop saying survivors are in the best state with all the buff they get? The buffs dont deny the escape rate dropped.
Instead of just saying that though and giving your points why you posted a picture mocking them. Anyone who thinks survivors are in their best state aren’t changing their mind by being made fun of..
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Your side note..
So what’s the point of the post if none of those are it? Genuine question. It seems like it’s just mocking people
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3668125#Comment_3668125
that is why i think chapel is killer sided because I generally only 3 gen on this map on circus top side of the map. there is literally no incentive for me to go on bottom side of the map or middle side of the map because bottom side of the map can have shack -> facing jungle gym window and main building can have a bottom god window. why I would as killer ever engage in these broken setups over just 3 gen and ignoring 60% of the map?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3668135#Comment_3668135
chase-wise, i don't think i would ever engage in shack -> jungle facing window setup nor engage in infinity windows. for me, the map is more lopsided.
Yeah I mean as I was mentioning there are a few very lopsided setups you can get that make it very unbalanced. I was just speaking overall if you don’t get the bad setups. Like I would take this map before many, many other maps in the game comparatively.
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Overall a balanced map in my opinion. Good size and decent distribution.
That said, there are some layouts you can get from rng, especially for the main building, that can make it very survivor sided. So mostly balanced bar some spawn setups if you’re unlucky.
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@nValentine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667120#Comment_3667120
"at the top level" yeah which is 10% of the player base. do you even know that most dbd players are casuals and a lot play solo? balance decisions should not be around " top level " because top level is broken and always will be. do you watch tournaments? "top level" killer vs top level survivors and THE NURSE always wins not even with 4 slowdowns. a top level killer who plays ghostface got a 3K on the best team "elysuim" in the world right now.
few days ago on the 2 best teams faced off and on the nurse set Nurse 3-4K every match. did you even see the showcase that Otz showed? about a wraith main who says he 4K every match while also being afk at the start of the match? and when he faced the best team in the world yea he lost, but after a long boring 30min match.
i've always said it and will say it again. slowdown perks need to be removed from the game "except corrupt". make Dead lock base kit, No Way Out base kit. and run 3 good chase perks.
I disagree. Comp matches are a joke not because of top level being bad it’s because of what is made to be the best play style and poor balancing. Trying to call Ghostface good because he can camp and tunnel someone out from start to finish isn’t accurate. We see what’s actually balanced when a game is played normally. Nurse is irrelevant to mention as she ignores fundamental game mechanics.
When you balance for top level it actually doesn’t effect lower as mmr will simply lower your invisible rating until you’re winning/losing just as much as you were before, but now the higher level would actually be more balanced.
I have nearly the same hours as Otz so I understand the game quite well. Anecdotal games don’t change the general rules. Nurse is an exception to all rules and should be ignored in game balance conversations.
I want the game balanced around no tunneling/camping where a 12 hook game is feasible without slow down perks stacked. If the game was slowed down like that all those perks could be gutted.
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@nValentine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667684#Comment_3667684
big guy if they made gens 140seconds to complete for example. everyone would still run Pain res and pop. let's not lie here please.
i still remember how every killer played legion or plague after the shack up in 2022 when they gave killer base kit buffs and made gens 90seconds. everyone played legion with thanatophobia who at the time made gens 120second and 3 slowdowns on top. were you there around that time?
I actually don’t think they would since if they hypothetically did what I was talking about I would also want extreme nerfs to all gen slow down perks. I absolutely would not want them left as is.
I’ve been around since near release and over 10k hours so I remember then. That old Legion or Plague with Thana was not an issue at all though. People had placebo effect hate from seeing a red bar.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666089#Comment_3666089
one concern i have currently in the game is that killer has low perk variety because they're forced to run perks to reward them for being successful. at one point, i remember in 6.1.0 that they said that game-delay perks should be optional and killer should not need to use them to compete as killer.
Fast-forward to today and my killer build are still... game-delay.
Yup basically.
They refuse to slow the game down so the requirement on slow down perks never changes. If you think about how much extra gen time gets added by those slow down perks it makes you realize the ridiculous amount they’d have to slow the gens down to make them unnecessary..like we’re talking extra entire gens worths lol. Let’s be honest, that’s never happening unfortunately. We’d be lucky if they added 10 seconds even, much less how much is necessary.
Now realistically the main issue is map design and how little 1v4 pressure most killers can exert rather than actual gen time. So this issue could be tackled in multiple different ways.
That’s one thing I enjoy more on survivor. Perk optionally. I feel like I have the room to run fun builds and just whatever I feel like, while still winning plenty. You don’t have that option on killer. Most your builds are generally locked if you want to win. You don’t have room for fun builds unless you stop caring about winning or you happen to get a really chill group.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667259#Comment_3667259
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667136#Comment_3667136
Not unreasonable points, however, only MMR is affected by kills, and MMR is a hidden value/mechanic, and there is no reward for climbing in MMR beyond your own motivation to do so.
Grades aren't affected anywhere near as much by kills, and Grades are what are public facing. So it's fair to say your skill level is determined by kills, but your actual objective, the things you are actually rewarded for doing each season are far more in line with the theme than getting kills.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667152#Comment_3667152
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667184#Comment_3667184
All fair points, thanks for the feedback.
As I said in the OP, I believe the perks personally are fine and don't need nerfing. However this topic is likely to mentioned be repeatedly over the next few months, and is worth getting a conversation going to get a general consensus on how players feel.
If these perks do need any tweaks, this is the route I would go, trying to retain the value for weaker killers, while having more impact of the stronger killers (and pushing to a more fun platstyle).
Judging the objective by what skill level and matchmaking you’re placed into is way more accurate than using something that just gives you a few blood points on reset.
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@Killing_Time said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667162#Comment_3667162
Yeah old DS was complete nonsense. Hook someone, go all the way across the map, down someone with Billy, hook them, end up running into the other guy, down him... DS LOL.
Basically lol.
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I don’t see nearly the amount of tunneling/camping most people do while playing way more than most. I think there are a lot of matches where people blame camping or tunneling when in reality it was them making lots of mistakes, the killer capitalizing, and them taking no accountability. I see this from random teammates in solo queue after chat all the time. Not saying it doesn’t happen a lot, just way over exaggerated as an excuse when smarter decisions or playing better would have changed what happened.
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This is the problem we get from hiding mmr from players for the sake of protecting people’s feelings from getting hurt. We’re all left just guessing from experience.
This said, once you’re an experienced enough player you know what good players and bad players look like so you become pretty good at gauging where you’re at. Also by tracking wins/losses. After a few thousand hours people probably have a decent idea of what skill they’re looking at.
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I don’t care if it goes back to 5 seconds as long as they fix it being used offensively. I shouldn’t ever be getting hit with it when I’m not trying to tunnel. Also, what we really need to come along side this is incentives for killers not tunneling. Currently not tunneling is just playing inefficiently for the sake of being a good sport.
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As a side note of your rational. You’re confusing the games lore with the games objective. Those are two different things.
While the lore may be all about pain and suffering that is not how we rank up objectively or even how the overall community sees winning for that matter.
Arguing against this with “rank” doesn’t make sense as we do not use that for matchmaking which is what is used for matching equally skilled people up. IE the invisible mmr would be our realistic “rank”. The rank we see is simply play time generally speaking.
If you were saying this back when blood points were used for ranking and that was used for matchmaking you’d have more of an argument.
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@nValentine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666927#Comment_3666927
you don't see an issue adding a 6th generator of course why would you? but i assume you had an issue with survivors having a third health state back in the day with old dead hard no? its literally the same thing.
That’s a very narrow way of looking at it and assuming a lot of me. I care about game balance. At the top level a “situational” (which you seem to be ignoring entirely) 6th gen is not an issue. Even with Pain Res the balance is skewed towards survivors at that level. If you have this opinion based on low level play where it’s skewed towards killers then I can understand your view point. However I care about the most objectively balance we can get to, which is when it’s actually good vs good players. Which is why my opinions are focused around high level play, not low level play.
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@nValentine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666089#Comment_3666089
yeah it isnt too strong. it just adds a 6th generator to complete in the match. i mean.. not so strong tbh
funny how it incentive killers to proxy camp and tunnel especially if you pair it with pop.
you know whats a healthy and balanced slowdown perks? DEAD LOCK. NO WAY OUT.
I don’t see an issue with it adding a 6th generator basically. You’re also only getting that if you play fairly spreading hooks and get lucky on scourge hook spawns. If you’re gonna stretch to say it encourages camping/tunneling then you could stretch it to say that about any perk. This is hyperbolic.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666576#Comment_3666576
And that's why i believe game in the best spot ever. It was survivor sided even on average level like 2 years ago and killer gameplay was nothing but pure misery. Make it balanced around high level and average level surviving will become pure misery.
First time in my dbd history i'm enjoying both sides equally. First time i feel like skill equally matter on both sides and it's amazing.
I mean I can see why you would like that. Most the average population has a good experience from this. However given that balancing it makes high level gameplay bad for killer. I play both roles pretty equally at that higher level and the games current balancing hinders the experience there.
So while I understand why you and most would like it that way it unfortunately messes with my experience, even if I understand I am the minority.
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I’d like to see something actually quite unique. I’d like to see a chapter made from something not horror, that’s turned into horror. So it’s their own take on it.
To make a joke but get the point across. Winnie the Pooh…but make it dark..lol
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@fussy said:
Killer sided on low level, balanced on average level and survivor sided on high level.
This is what I would say as well.
This is why people have such drastically different opinions of the state of the game or what’s op/up because it’s all based on that persons view of what level the game should be balanced around.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666533#Comment_3666533
imo I would just rework his entire add-on list. Zombies is main thing they need to buff. The entire nemesis T-virus tier is also something that really need rework because it does not feel gratifying to level up as Nemesis. The whip upgrades feel like they should be base version of the whip.
Yeah I agree.
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Nemesis is definitely one of those killers I view as a lot of missed potential and I like your ideas.
While I like the buffs to his whip and they make sense, I’d rather focus most of the improvements on the zombies. Mostly because we already have a dozen other “here’s my anti loop ability that hits over pallets and windows”. It’s just so not unique whatsoever and while they’re all “slightly” different from one another it’s just nothing special.
I’d like to focus on bringing up his features that truly make him a unique play experience as and against. The zombies.
Let’s make them much more useful and increase Nemesis’s macro gameplay by encouraging him to play around the zombies more.
Firstly, all those zombie buffs you mentioned. Essentially those add ons should all be base kit. While ideally we’d want more zombies as well, the devs stated this isn’t happening. So we’re gonna focus on making the ones we do have better.
Second, as you elected to make the infection tiers buff the zombies. Like each tier makes the zombies faster.
You could also have first tier make zombies when they detect someone show the survivors aura for 2 seconds. Each tier of infection will increase this aura reveal duration.
These changes will give him more macro game play by trying to work with the zombies to herd people, they’ll now improve his tracking much better and his map pressure will be improved from their increase speed and detection.
He also has quite a few really bad addons as well.
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I don’t see any solution for this.
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Those perks are fine, other slow downs need to be brought up to their level. The limited kicks change also killed off other options and was a bad change imo.
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Pain Res isn’t too strong. The other slow downs are too weak. You’re going at this from the wrong end.
The game is balanced around running strong gen slowdowns so we can’t just heavily nerf them all without in tandem lowering their need, but most people don’t care about that. All they want is slow downs nerfed full stop, nothing else.
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I actually like how Midwhich is. One of the few maps that’s good how it is, other than adding some hooks. You can get some serious dead zones where you can’t hook anyone.
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As solo queue survivor not really much complaints. It’s pretty good. I still think NOED is an unhealthy perk and even artificially inflates kill rates. Matchmaking is bad but that’s realistically unfixable as it has to be bad to cover up the games balance problems unless we want to start balancing from the top down but most people want the game balance around the lowest common denominator. Tunneling? Also not changing for the same reason as above.
So overall pretty happy with it. The things that could change would need drastic game changes that realistically aren’t happening. Most games I lose are because me or my team played badly, not because of balance issues. As it should be.
If I was gonna comment on survivor when I’m playing in a swf it feels like I’m cheating.
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They seem fine to me
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@Cryopier said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661723#Comment_3661723
So how can the survivor left on the ground end the match while the ghostface teabags on top of him and refuses to hang him without a penalty?
I never said anything about that survivor. Although they could just run anti slug perks if it’s really happening that often and get good value. He could also crawl away from the last survivor allowing him to complete the final gens for free if the killer really is staying there.
The point I was actually making was that people shouldn’t be auto blaming the killer for this scenario when the other survivor not on the ground is just as if not arguably even more guilty in that situation.
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Actually way undertuned imo. It could not even be a hex and I would still think it was bad..but it is a hex..that should show how bad it is.
Activate on 1 stun and triple the duration. I still probably wouldn’t run it even at that.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662458#Comment_3662458
No tunneling works in comp also that's how they win.
I never said tunneling doesn’t work. The statement you said and that tunneling allows people to win are two extremely different statements. Also, the games we’re playing aren’t comp games.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3663362#Comment_3663362
I used to run hex: blood favor on wesker. Why legion though? Isn't iri button just better?
I could see it on Wesker. I like Legion because it’s easy to proc. You could do Iri button, I just find it better as long as the hex stays active. Plus I like running other addons.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3663637#Comment_3663637
If I remember correctly it was the most killer-sided map in the game (highest kill rates) with Dead Dog Saloon maybe just behind it.
It’s also my favorite on survivor
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Too large. If the final 3 gens are on opposite sides and you’re a killer without mobility you’ve basically already lost. I don’t think we should have any maps where the game is nearly decided either direction simply on what 3 gens are left.
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Main issue is that the map is too large and the main building too safe. Killers lacking map mobility really struggle here.
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I think this map could use a little reshape and gen placement adjustment to make it less of a 3 gen or bust scenario. If you get the 3 gen on one side there’s a good chance you’re winning but if they’re on opposite sides you’re very unlikely to win that as killer. Knowing whether you’re gonna win or lose as soon as you see the last 3 gens feels pretty bad. So just bring both outliers closer together.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3661951#Comment_3661951
Didn’t the devs release stats last year that showed Midwich has the highest kill rate in the game?
They did release stats on that however I don’t remember where Midwhich stood on kill rates. I’d imagine it was probably on the higher side if I was guessing though. I would say that even if something was better in kill rates then most others that doesn’t inherently imply it’s less balanced, it just means it’s deadlier than the others. Hypothetically deadlier than all the rest could still be balanced if the others it’s being compared to are very unbalanced in the other direction. If that all made sense.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3663265#Comment_3663265
I like indoor maps only after I learn them. I hate them all on release because it takes me a long time to learn their layout.
I didn’t hate Old Spirit as long as I had Spine Chill before it was nerfed.
I’ve always liked Twins, even if they slugged a lot. Unbreakable is a permanent part of my build and I love when I get value out of it. I just hated facing them because bad teammates, but that’s a teammate issue.
All very fair points!
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3663398#Comment_3663398
this is why we're collecting things individually on specific threads, otherwise the topic of maps means we won't get the full feedback - there's a lot of maps.
Exactly! I love that y’all are doing that. We definitely appreciate that. I think many people would agree that map balance is at least one of if not the biggest issue in the game.
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Pig got nerfed. Other two are definite buffs though.
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@D0NN1ED4RK0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3663362#Comment_3663362
If that’s the case
do you think it can synergize well with pyramid head’s power
the perk looks fun to run
It is fun. I would say it synergies as well with PH as with any other killer. It works, just no special synergy.
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I just wish it was zero collision rather than Endurance. Endurance is abusable to body block for the rescuer when I’m trying not to tunnel.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Maybe hot take, but imo it’s genuinely better for the game if Self-Care is bad.
For self-healing to be balanced it either needs to be limited or very slow. Self-Care is unlimited.
This.
Healing has to slow down the game. It needs to take at least as much time as it takes the killer to get the hit.
Self healing in dbd can never be “good” for the sake of balance. It isn’t healthy.
You generally speaking need to force a time waste, be that very slow healing or fast but limited or taking two survivors combined time.
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@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3663398#Comment_3663398
Agreed. Coal tower is the gold standard for map size and layout IMO. Forces actual interactions between both sides for the most part.
Definitely. Forced interactions are the key.
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Quite a lot of variance here to give a broad spectrum answer. Some good, some okay, some bad.
If I was very heavily generalizing though I’d say overall maps are too large and with too many overly safe loops. There should be way, way less forced pallet breaks than there are. Lots of the loops are too safe to attempt to play with the pallet down for how safe they are. A killer should most of the time feel like they have a fair chance of hitting a survivor at a loop when the pallets down.
If most maps were the size of Coal Tower the game would be in a lot better state. The hold W game play that isn’t fun or healthy for the game is only encouraged when maps are too large.
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Idk if I’d go as far as calling it OP, I don’t really mind it that much. It might be a little over tuned though, maybe just slow down the rate of tokens a bit. Rather than lessening aura reads you get tokens so fast that it’s basically permanent aura read immunity. Just give it a slight tweak.
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I like it on Legion. It’s for fun though, not if I was actually wanting to win. Most hex perks in general, including blood favor just aren’t scaled to be good enough for how easy they are to remove. Most of them instead of being high risk/high reward as they’re supposed to be are just low-mediocre reward/high risk. Which is basically why no one runs them other than pentimento/plaything or noed since they just fundamentally work different than normal hexes.
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Midwhich
Indoor maps in general. I think they’re healthier design.
Old Spirit, as and against
Slugging, as and against
Twins current design, as and against. She just needs buffs and QoL changes
Definitely know I’m in the minority with liking most this.
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Here’s the issue. People don’t want to slow gen speeds down, so they’re forced to make killers stronger in the 1v1 to compensate for how fast the game can go or encourage tunneling basically. This is less fun for survivors.
Ideally I would’ve rather them go the other way. Let survivors have their stronger loops and killers not quite as good in the anti loop and 1v1 as they’ve been pushing and instead slow the gens down to give killers extra time to deal with those loops. This doesn’t necessarily have to mean just adding time to gens either. It could be indirectly through stronger gen slow down or shrinking maps significantly to improve map pressure.
Of course doing gens is boring so this would have to come with some increased interactivity changes to doing gens as well.
You sort of see this scenario with something like Pig. Generally speaking an m1 killer all game with bad anti loop so she mostly has to play all the loops at face being weak but her passive slow down with the RBTs give her the extra time to commit to those loops since she’s so weak at them. End result being the survivors got to have their fun/strong loops but the killer was also given the extra time to commit to them without losing the whole game from it.
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@sulaiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3662201#Comment_3662201
I think your secondly is wrong, because if they are that highly outclassed, they should not have been matched with the killer in the first place, but that happens because mmr is neglegted for better matching times. So what should lowering mmr do, because the survivors will get matched like that again anyway.
But when you think that the killer hasnt already won in a 3v1 match with still 5 gens to do, i dont think we will find common ground on this.
I actually agree on your first point. They may have just been placed with a more skilled killer through bad matchmaking so that doesn’t necessarily mean they should be lowered. That’s a fair point and could be the case.
I’m not saying the likelihood of them winning in a 3v1 isn’t significantly lower at that point. I’m simply saying the game isn’t objectively over and there is still a chance.
For your Edit point. I would say that scenario in and of itself happens so rarely that you wouldn’t even have enough datapoints to draw conclusions from. That scenario is that rare. If it’s way more common for someone than that then more is happening than just bad matchmaking, it’s back to a skill issue.
Similar to how often people blame solo queue for why they lost when it’s more often a skill issue. Not saying you don’t lose a lot from solo queue and bad teammates, but I play mostly solo queue and way, way more than the average play and I win way more matches than I lose. People in general don’t like accountability.