Blueberry
Blueberry
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Your misunderstanding the direction of their anger and blame. They are not angry at you for doing gens as that's your objective and what you should be doing, they are angry at the devs for allowing the gens to be able to be completed that fast.
Also I wouldn't be so quick to say that "if the gens were completed fast the killer was just bad at pressuring." While that can be true, it does not mean it is always true. Against good survivors unless you are on a specific killer or got lucky on map selection you are losing those gens fast regardless of what you do. The average killer does not have the tools available to properly pressure the map enough to slow gens down adequately against "good" survivors. Keep in mind this is good survivors I'm talking about, not average matches. "Gens going fast" is also subjective so our idea of "fast" could be quite different from mine.
I think you're looking at this whole thing with the wrong perspective in other words. You're focusing too much on who's blaming who instead of the actual situation.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198339#Comment_2198339
I believe keeping the immunity would lead to some unfun moments on both sides.
The killer can't visually see if the perk has been used, which will be frustrating on their end as they can't see if they baited it out.
Survivors who successfully DH won't get much distance, making the timing to pull off much less rewarding and frustrating on their end.
If we just remove the invincibility and keep the dash, it adds a bit of depth to the perk. You can't rely on invincibility to avoid damage, which means the survivors can't be reckless — they HAVE to get enough value from the dash to avoid damage. Which I believe is the best way to go about DH since it keeps the interaction / counterplay on both sides.
Well we'd obviously be adding a visual component to it since we wouldn't have the dash visual anymore.
"Survivors who successfully DH won't get much distance, making the timing to pull off much less rewarding and frustrating on their end."
Timing an Iframe to avoid a hit is literally the epitome of rewarding and is only frustrating if they miss time it. This makes it much more skill reliant which is good design.
"If we just remove the invincibility and keep the dash, it adds a bit of depth to the perk."
Lol no it does not ad depth. It is literally removing depth. I have already illustrated how it removes counter play and skill when used at loops.
"You can't rely on invincibility to avoid damage, which means the survivors can't be reckless — they HAVE to get enough value from the dash to avoid damage."
EXACTLY lol. It shouldn't be always reliable. It should require skill and not being reckless to get value. You are wanting a component that adds value regardless of any skill and with no counter play.
Your arguments for distance and against the immunity are literally reinforcing why those are bad ideas.
You also haven't made a point in regards to how the distance is balanced at things like loops. I pointed out why that is unhealthy as there is generally speaking no counter play when used for distance and not only that, but you wanted to increase the distance or control even more...
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198012#Comment_2198012
DH would be easy to change, just remove the invincibility from it and keep the dash. Solves a lot of problems on both sides:
- Survivors cannot complain about getting exhausted on the ground since the perk doesn't grant Immunity towards attacks
- Killers will only see DH used to gain distance to a pallet or window, not to dodge attacks that would otherwise be considered a down
As compensation, I'd like to see the distance this perk covers slightly increased as well as the speed curvature being slightly more aggressive. We could experiment with other compensation changes, but I don't know how much TO compensate since I don't know how damaging removing the invincibility from DH is.
I'd actually like the complete opposite. Keep the immunity, ditch the distance.
Why?
The issue with the perk is not the immunity, it's the distance. You can bait out the immunity, IE "counter play". However the distance when used correctly has no counter play. You essentially greed every single loop, if they respect it, free loop, if they don't, you DH for distance and make the loop anyway.
We want to keep the part that has counter play and get rid of the part that doesn't.
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@gatsby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198012#Comment_2198012
Head On and Balanced Landing are the worst, most niche exhaustion perks.
A literal 3rd health state every 40 seconds is supposed to be niche.
What we have now with things like DH is a literal 3rd health state for zero cost, zero requirement, zero downside, and not situational at all. That is the epitome of bad design and unbalanced.
You either have effects that are strong but situational or weaker but very common in activation. Perks like DH are literally strong and common.
There is absolutely zero reason you would not be running an exhaustion perk, especially ones like DH, on every. single. match., Unless you literally just did not care about winning. That is once again, the epitome of poor design.
Every perk choice should be a weighing of the pros and cons associated with choosing it. DH has none of that. A few other exhaustion perks as well if you wanna go there.
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You just clearly showcased why DH needs to be brought down in power.
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DH needs to be brought down to their level, not them up to DH. Head On and BL are probably the ideal level.
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Twins. A lot of her counter play involves teamwork.
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I really like that he doesn’t have chase music. Since he can’t see scratch marks you do a lot of your tracking through sound.
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Really hope they do a lot of that on the map, looks amazing. Darker too please.
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No, Blood Echo is pretty bad. It needs the cooldown removed. Even in one of its best case scenarios (Plague) it's still terrible.
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I would rather face a god tier Spirit than a god tier Nurse any day of the weak. Much more counter play with the Spirit.
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It's super annoying. It's so ridiculously loud it muffles a lot of sound queues.
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Pretty pointless change, it didn't address his issues.
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Sounds cool, they could attach it to devotion as well.
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Or it could be called "survivors just wait in the corners of the map for a few seconds while the killer stands there wondering why he wasted a perk slot on this".
Maybe that's too long though.
Jokes aside, the perk is trash. Nothing but meme'ing. Maybe make it give survivor location pings every 5 seconds and up the blocked duration.
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I actually wanted them to increase his flick by a bit (after removing the jflick exploit of course), but the 180 is pretty excessive and not how much I was thinking of increasing it by. It feels pretty dumb. Rather than feeling outplayed it just feels like you got cheesed.
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Seems exactly the same to me. If it’s actually you dying that fast and not your teammates then you must be doing something different.
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Facts.
People vastly over exaggerate what camping or tunneling is. I very rarely see genuine camping or tunneling and I play way more than the average player.
Not to mention we can tell this is the case since once DS was nerfed everyone stopped running it. It's just as good for stopping actual tunneling which further substantiates that they weren't actually being tunneled or camped in the first place.
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As with almost every single hex perk, it's not good enough to be a hex. Just run Bamboozle.
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Since the game doesn't balance from the top down it bleeds veteran players which means most the population is relatively new. The older players get to the peak of the game where it's good vs good and realize they lose not because they were out played but because of the games poor balance. That isn't a fun experience to have. People want to feel like they have agency over the matches outcome.
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The blackening/defeaning is completely irrelevant and makes no sense for the perk. It accomplishes absolutely nothing with how short it is. If it was for like 60 seconds or something then sure maybe, but that's not what we have. It was already rarely used before and then they went and nerfed it by making it basic attacks only for some reason.
Why do you view this perk as the worst designed perk in the game? I very much disagree with this statement.
A useful purpose for that blackening/defeaning as you referenced would be to attach it to Deep Wounds. This would up the skill cap and mind game potential for Legion.
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Agree 100%
I find monster type killers way scarier personally. Not to mention if they're more willing to it opens up a whole slew of other licensed killers they could tap into, not to mention a plethora of original ideas as well. Keeping to just humanoids is limiting them unnecessarily.
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I'd say less than 5% as a guess. I think it's less than most people think.
Would be really cool if a dev would pop in and give us that info.
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Spirit
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2189176#Comment_2189176
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2189279#Comment_2189279
I guess that makes sense, but BHVR has failed every time they have tried to implement some sort of mmr system. They also don't even tell us what it measures as skill either.
Oh yeah I agree.
Either the MMR won't actually be accurate and we'll essentially just stay where we're at, or it will be accurate and all the balance problems will be brought to the surface.
The latter "sounds" nice, but that's if we assume that the issues will actually be addressed and honestly at what speed, would be the more concerning issue. Most likely years...
I more than likely expect it just won't be that accurate and we'll continue the status queue...except now we won't be able to point out how bad it is because it's hidden...
The hidden part of the MMR is just very sketchy to me as it serves no purpose other than preventing us from seeing problems. The whole "if we can see what it's graded by we'll abuse it" is just illogical to me. It's supposed to measure "skill", so us "abusing" it would be us playing...skillful? Sounds silly right?
That's also just referencing us seeing the grading material, hiding our actually just plain MMR number itself from us literally has no reasoning.
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Solo survivor doesn't need buffs. This thought process is treating the bad solo queue experience as the sickness rather than the symptom.
The reason solo queue is frustrating is because we have a poor ranking system, poor rank reset system, and poor matchmaking, which all 3 lead to you getting teammates that are realistically not your rank or the rank it says they're at. IE your whole team may say rank 5 when realistically they're rank 10's or lower. These issues give an unbalanced in skill match up and bad teammates. This is the actually sickness and what needs fixing.
The reason these systems are kept this way is because they cover up the games balance issues. IE putting potatoes mixed in with the good players.
How do we fix this?
Well first we need to fix the problem that keeps the need for these systems in the game which is balance. Once we properly balance from the top down then we no longer have an issue that needs covering. Then we can fix these systems and vastly improve the skill level of teammates you are getting in your solo queue matches.
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They essentially built the "j-flick" into the base kit of the game instead of getting rid of it.
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One of my least favorite map reworks.
It's still way too large and safe to be able to properly pressure the map.
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There's a bug with rank reset going on right now. IE those players could have realistically been rank 1 just the other day technically.
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Bait.
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2186317#Comment_2186317
I like that idea! It gives that bit more interest to the deep wound applied from FF and separates it a bit from the BT deep wound which I personally like (and yes please to the lower fatigue time!).
I'm glad you liked it!
I like ways that we can increase the power level and fun of some weaker killers but requires a higher skill level to do so which means it won't hurt lower rank players.
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@MadLordJack said:
I think that Exhaustion is an overpowered mechanic and it needs some drawbacks. Right now you're doing nothing but deliberately disadvantaging yourself if you don't run an exhaustion perk, and that's just not okay. There needs to be a reason to not run them that isn't "I already have one equipped."
Plus, DH and SB outclass all the others.
^ This.
They're essentially a non-situational DS you can use over and over every 40 seconds with generally speaking no requirements, downsides, or skill component that gives you a 3rd health state each time. There's basically no reason you would ever not run an Exhaustion perk unless you just didn't care about winning. I don't see how anyone could see that as good design or well balanced.
Not only is it that ridiculous, but even with how strong they are we're actually actively nerfing what little anti-exhaustion addons there are...baffling.
Then we also look at the anti-exhaustion killer perks that absolutely no one uses. They're so bad that even in a meta where you can essentially guarantee every single survivor will be running an exhaustion perk and they're still not worth running. So in the absolute best case scenario for them they're still bad...
Sorry it was a rant, I just don't see how so many people can't see how ridiculous exhaustion perks are.
Tbh something like Balanced Landing I actually take much less issue with. It's actually situational and requires playing around. Head On for that matter as well.
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I'd personally rather just lower the fatigue out of FF by 1 second and apply Deafened with the Deep Wounds effect.
This essentially ups their skill cap and mind game potential.
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Reduce fatigue out of FF by 1 second and apply Deafened on the Deep Wounds status effect.
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Balance the game from the top down instead of for low rank players so that none of those things were necessary and then we could implement something into the base game to prevent them.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2184996#Comment_2184996
A lot of people rank demo and ghostie in C and I wouldn’t consider either completely terrible
Neither would I, but I wouldn't put them in C tier either. I think that's bad placement on their part.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2184955#Comment_2184955
More average than garbage. Great chase but lacks pressure
He's still in the running for one of the worst killers in the game. Now I don't think I'd give him the dead worst spot, but he's definitely down there with some of the worst. Even giving him B tier would be highly generous. Anything below B is completely terrible.
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He's still garbage.
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They aren't gonna be able to fix the latency and desync with that. Realistically the best way to fix that in a roundabout way is to increase the size of the projectiles in the vomit to compensate for the delay and increase the chance of them hitting.
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I like all these changes. +1
Only a few issues:
You missed fixing one of their number 1 problems right after camping which is taking Victor hostage. It isn't fun for either side. Preventing a killer from getting to use their power isn't proper counter play it's poor design. My recommendation is to give Charlotte Undetectable while Victor is being held. This still lets them decide if they want to risk such a play but it doesn't leave you as a 115% max TR killer with no power if they choose to. It gives them some incentive to want to get Victor off as you could use those seconds to swap targets.
Secondly, while those addon changes are nice, it still leaves them as trash. The numbers on them are just simply too short to be relevant whatsoever. Amp the timers on them significantly.
Lastly, while not mentioned in the post she has a bunch of addons that apply effects when Victor is kicked "while idle". The while idle stipulation essentially makes them garbage. If The Twins wasn't essentially just "Victor" you'd have him idle more for this to maybe matter, but that's just not the case. You are on Victor 90% of the time so these addons are very rarely ever being relevant. Remove the while idle component and instead just on Victor kicks in general and now she has a few other quite good addons to consider.
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Lackluster.
I like the perk but it has too many drawbacks and restrictions. Just remove the cooldown, it's only 8%.
It makes no sense why Pop doesn't have a cooldown but Surge does.
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It of course did give them a significant nerf but they are still strong. The biggest issue with the nerf is it just makes them feel terrible and clunky to play. There was already hardly anyone playing The Twins at all and now they just killed off a couple of those. It really feels like they just don't want people to play them at all. The nerf was just completely unnecessary. As people have already pointed out, because there's so few people that actually play The Twins they're never gonna get much pushback on these changes so it's probably never gonna change and the Twins will be more forgotten. That said, did you see how much upvotes the posts in the PTB Feedback page got about telling the devs how terrible this change was? It was a lot, and still ignored.
What they needed was to fix the camping and taking Victor hostage. Slugging was not the issue.
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No it seems like you understand her pretty well lol.
She has lots of design flaws with all the parts of her power including her addons.
She needs quite an overhaul.
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While there are cases where BT is necessary it also unfortunately as you experienced, encourages bad/no skill/abusive plays.
It's a thin line trying to balance between the two. Currently what we have is just completely balancing on the necessary side and completely ignoring the other as a camping/tunneling killer is deemed the larger issue of the two.
Wish we could find a more balanced medium.
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They balance for low ranks which makes good killers vs good survivors at high ranks get dunked on. To cover this up they make ranking up on survivors extremely easy which piles up bad survivors at ranks they shouldn't be in. Top this off with a poor rank reset that basically never takes you back down and a matchmaking system that puts you against rainbow colors and this leaves your average match against potatoes. It's basically a whole bunch of flawed systems that are left intentionally flawed because they cover up the bad balance. IE also why kill stats for example are useless from the aforementioned issues.
You'll win most matches even at rank 1 if you're actually good because you're going against bad players that shouldn't be there in the first place. When you actually go against good vs good you're gonna get dunked as the game is very survivor sided when they actually know what they're doing.
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They do take a lot of skill with muscle memory and micro managing. I haven't really gone about where I'd specifically place them on a skill required tier list but they would at least be somewhere in the top few. There play style can be really confusing at first and difficult to understand what or when to use either of them. This ends up also giving them a higher than average skill floor which is part of what puts off a lot of players from using them, they just can't get the hang of it. This higher skill requirement with The Twins is exactly why you see them as one of the most disagreed on spots on tier lists. You see some people throw her in D and some in A. It's also why you see most Twins lose games when you see them and then when you finally run into a good one they destroy. At rank 1 I 4k most my matches while simultaneously most all Twins I run into when on survivor we dumpster them and 4 escape in solo queue even. A high skill requiring killer is why you see these disparities.
The whole "no skill killer" gets thrown around a lot these days, not just The Twins. Most of this just stems from the killer just being strong or a play style they don't enjoy going against. IE they just insult the player for playing them or blame their loses on "it's an easy killer". It's just making excuses.
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I've been collecting all the discontinued offerings on older characters. They're just collectables now. It's why I refuse to p3 those characters.
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She's weak, needs buffs.
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@Bwsted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2174882#Comment_2174882
It's kinda pointless then, imho.
^ This. It's worthless.
They need to make it remove the global sound queue to give it some value.