AVoiceOfReason
AVoiceOfReason
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- AVoiceOfReason
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It's a smart play by survivors to make sure they have time to do safe rescues. Also, it prevents BW unless a killer opens the gate themselves. It's fine the way it is.
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Or just keep messing with them until they tantrum or make them run into the pole? I do it a lot. Since they changed Bubba, he can't actually face camp anymore and can barely camp if they like to use their chainsaw as a threat.
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The Nurse cosmetic for Cheryl. It is and will always be my favorite cosmetic.
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@Mr_K said:
Best counter to NOED is to die before end game.
That one made me laugh lol
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@CountVampyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2249678#Comment_2249678
Except that is NOT how it is worded in the descriptions. Again.
Because its additive. You take 100% then add 50%, it's still 50%. You add 50% to 100% to make 150% then you take 100%, it's still left with 50% of the total value.
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@CountVampyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2249662#Comment_2249662
All of that is besides the point. It may all be factually accurate but the concrete numbers aren’t in the descriptions of any of those things. It’s all left to vague desciptors like “moderately increases healing”. You can’t argue with that. But 100% of something? THAT is going to be a problem!
100% of something is absolute. It doesn't matter the number. If 100% is taken away then 50% of that value is added back, its still 50% of the total value.
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@CountVampyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2249629#Comment_2249629
But I bet full volume is a concrete number, it isn’t just “100%”, is it? You can’t have 100% of anything until you decide upon a range.
Programming code is additive. Its why using old Tinkerer then using certain add-ons together in a certain way would give you a better benefit than reversing them. For example: Using a BNP on a Commodious Toolbox then adding a scrap would give you more charges. Here is how programming works (the basics).
Commodious Toolbox is 300 charges (just an example) and scrap is 20 charges. BNP is still 25% of the entire toolbox. Using the BNP would make the total charges left 225 because its 25% of 300. Now adding scraps so 245 total AFTER using the BNP out of 320 charges altogether.
Now 320 charges THEN the BNP has a new value to subtract from. Now the total is 240 charges total after using the BNP. That's 5 charges less than using the BNP first because the amount is additive. If you use an item that had 100 charges, an add-on that took 100 charges away but one add-on that added 20 charges, you'd have 20 charges total. Its additive for items, perks and add-ons in this game so putting a negative effect first then a positive one will always give a slightly better value.
Its like using a flashlight with a battery and a filament that reduces consumption. Putting the filament first increases the life of the flashlight but not the battery unless the battery is placed as an add-on first. It's just how coding works. It does each value after another. Put the battery first and it'll do the value for the filament for the flashlight then the charges for the battery life to give you a bit more flashlight usage total. Hope that explains it a bit better.
(Edit: Made it easier to understand)
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@CountVampyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2249599#Comment_2249599
Then you dont understand the concept of what reducing something by 100% means. Truly. None of you seem to. And it doesn’t matter what order you do the math in. You can factor in Stridor before or after, then end result is the same: if you are reducing something by 100% then you get 0, and once you get to zero you cannot add back a number that’s in percentage form. If you don’t believe me, try it on a calculator.
Its how programming code works.
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Ay, those chests aren't going to open themselves, you know.
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I played a no perk Clown at Rank 1 against SWFs with flashlights and 4k'd them while not taking the game serious. At endgame chat, I said gg. I got berated a bit then was told that I should run NOED if I wanted to be such a sweaty tryhard. I told them I don't even need perks and they went off saying that only a balding fatass could play Clown and win. I just left a :( my feeling's.
They told me to stop eating them. At that point, I wasn't even mad xD thought it was pretty funny and said lol. That's a good one and then I can't say what they said xD all in all, it was pretty funny to watch people lose thier ######### on a perk less, non-camping, no tunneling Clown. They lost because they wanted to bully me with flashlights instead of doing gens on Haddonfield. They threw up the map. God, I miss them :(
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Bring in whatever you like. WGLF has many ways to gain stacks. Killers have to hook each person once. Survivor's keep their items if they survive while killers lose everything. Seems you should reverse everything on why its unfair to the killers who kill everyone and lose everything no matter what they do
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I just want 3 more perks that give a ######### effect but give you double bloodpoints at the end of the match :D
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Thank you guys!! I've been saving up for like 3 years now lol. Finally got to get a PC without going through a scalper.
(Edit: Been using a 1050 XD Not even the TI version lol. I couldn't even stream or record on OBS with any game running without it crashing so this is a pretty big deal for me.)
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Just lock us in as killer. Doing it at the end of the match won't help anyone but realize, oh, I should have brought in better stuff to handle the situation. It's like reverse PMS. Preventive Maintenance System in the military. You wouldn't go oh, well, we could have done something about we chose to do something AFTER something happened. We should be able to see what we are up against from the get-go.
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I hate that map as killer and survivor. Just an annoying map.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2242529#Comment_2242529
Not sure if it's a bug or intended because many times before I would hear her footsteps/I'd see grass/corn moving
Maybe it was patched out idk
She use to. Only during her haunting does she not. If she's just walking around, it does.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2241983#Comment_2241983
Survivors have scratch marks, blood and (when the game works) footstep noises. Not to mention you can use your eyes to physically see where they are, provided they didn't break line of sight
All you have vs a stridor spirit is...Sometimes footstep sounds and grass moving?
Iron will has no real 'counter' because it robs killers of information but on the same page that doesn't mean Stridor Spirit is suddenly okay either
Her footsteps while phasing don't make a noise and she doesn't move grass or corn.
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I've played against a few. Mine is Lupin The 3rd with the blue tuxedo and dazzling smile!
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Remove his stalk limit and make it so he can break pallets faster in Tier 3. That's all he really needs.
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@ill_Boston_lli said:
You guys KNOW the grind now a days is TERRIBLE!!!! Why do you have double bps on mobile but never on your original?? Even the rituals on there are far more generous. BRING BACK DOUBLE BPS!!
I agree. I made a rant on the Feedback part of the forum because of it.
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Billy. He has that 1-shot potential, great map coverage and he's just really fun to screw around with.
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@Jasix said:
When I play survivor it is generally solo (Maybe 10% of time I team with 1-2 other people) - this is my standard build:
Kindred - good perk for the team.
Lithe - my preferred exhaustion perk.
Borrowed Time - speaks for itself.
Soul Guard - great for those end games where NOED comes into play and also if the killer decides to slug any other time a hex is active.
Those are all really good perks.
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@th3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2241538#Comment_2241538
Yeah I've kept bt on cause the sheer amount of times the killer just ignores me and goes for the injured guy even with me blocking is insane.
When it does happen, it's infuriating, specially when the survivor was already in a chase when it happens and you get downed for their selfishness.
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@th3 said:
Pretty solid, I normally run WGLF, BT, DS, and Bond. I tried not using DS but its so bad nowadays.
I rarely get tunneled off the hook myself but if I do, I expect my team to have BT so I can at least try to survive until I reach a loop.
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@jaylindataco said:
So there I am trying to rank up and 'git gud' when I was rudely Interrupted by the camp god himself. Bubba mains clearly have deep seeded issues and must display there unbridled rage upon thine survivors at all times. I know we have all have faced the occasional camp or tunnel,but it happens a little too often. The classic perks to "prevent" these issues doesn't necessarily Help when all the survivors Desperately avoid the insta killing 4k machine that is Bubba.But don't you worry cause I have found a solution. A solution to face camping, a solution to proxy camping. Therefore a solution to Bubba. When a survivor is on a hook and the killer is within a certain radius the hook progression stops completely. Forcing the killer to move elsewhere and actually play the game.
Thankyou for coming to my Ted talk
Bubba can't really chainsaw camp anymore. They have a tantrum and if they rev enough, they WILL tantrum. Just gotta run towards the hooked to make him rev enough times. I do it all the time lol.
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2240178#Comment_2240178
You can't seriously say you don't commit your chases. If someones working on a gen right in front of you as you're chasing someone else thats a free hit. But thats not really an issue, common sense dictates that. But most chases survivors aren't brash enough to sit in your face while you're chasing their team mate. Most of the time you're a decent distance away from other survivors. Sure you can tag that guy and leave.....but he can still take that opportunity to crank out a gen. Then you have to waste more time walking across the map to find someone else. Again, you can only chase 1 person at a time, at ANY given time (unless you're bubba or one of these new killers with multi proj downing multiple people in one blow. Just like in the video, the trapper could have come in and knocked everybody off that gen, but as soon as he starts chasing someone else the rest of his team can just jump right back on.
Lets see you take on the same team, unprepared, unaware....and see how that goes...yes, even at rank 1. When you do, (and when you lose) come post that. I'll be waiting with my Monto catch phrase in hand and an extra jar of sweat to cover up all that fun you could have had, if the game didn't allow nonsense like that.
I use to record all of my matches. I got over 100 on YouTube because when I record, I don't take out my losses. Its a game. Tell me when I get curbstomped at Rank 1 by any group.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2240206#Comment_2240206
Perhaps Class Photo was a little bit better, but that might be debatable.
And this conversation makes nostalgia hit me like a truck! I really want my main back.
Nostalgia is just the love of the game that we'll never forget.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2240190#Comment_2240190
Ah yes, back when Red Paint Brush reduced your movement speed. This combo was devastating on Lery's.
But one of my favourite add-ons was Pill Bottle. No glimpses during the Transition was basically a free hit 100% of the time.
That was probably his best add-on, honestly. You never saw that guy coming until he slept you and you still didn't know where he was xD That put the fear of Freddy in a lot of people xD
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@Avignon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2237653#Comment_2237653
Eh, also depends alot on the killer. Twins are (in)famous for this but on the other hand the kit is kinda built for it. You can injure people, slug with Victor, park him near the slug go patrolling with charllote and if some unfortunate soul comes to pick the slug up, slug them too because killer instinct.
Same goes for killers like Oni / Myers. Wana get as much value outa that T3 as possible.
When I go against the Twins, all I ever see is Victor spam until everyone is slugged. I rarely see Charlotte move.
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@Moundshroud said:
Letting people bleed out is rude, childish and an attempt to grief the PLAYER rather than just score points. It is bad sportsmanship. It isn't, however, against the rules because:
- It does not hold the game hostage (as the Mods and others already pointed out).
- It is still the same game as far as you are concerned, i.e. don't get caught and pick people up.
- It would be impossible to police, because most slugging is not with this intention.
All in all, the defective person that does this is rare. Every once in awhile you run into the twit who picks you up, carries you over by the hatch, drops you and pretends to let you get it only to slam it on your face. You also get the ones that seem to be letting you crawl out but wait till the las second to pick you up. These things are contemptible because they aren't really done with any game goal in mind. It is, as I've already said, evidence of a seriously defective person, the kind that tortures small animals if given the chance. Fortunately they are few and far between.
Most people that slug are doing it for tactical reasons.
The hatch closing one happened to me last night xD it was literally the first time I have ever seen that or even had that happen to me. I was mad at first then I thought it was pretty funny. (What made it funny was at end game chat when the killer said, "Got EEM!" Lol) I couldn't even stay mad xD Still a douche move, though xD
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2240183#Comment_2240183
Same, my friend. Same.
Use Paint Brush xD with Monitor and Abuse and you could see auras from like 5 feet away xD that survivor wasn't mindgaming ######### xD those were the days. Like a scarier version of Tier 1 Myers xD
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2240166#Comment_2240166
Precisely. It would be the perfect buff. Together with Dream Projection, of course.
Old Freddy with mobility would be sweet.
I'd prefer the constant aura over dream pallets or blood pools any day xD
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2239064#Comment_2239064
Killers can only chase 1 person at a time....you can't NOT commit....they'll just heal back up in the time it takes you to finish another chase and you have to start all over.
Someone who is healing themselves keeps them off of gens unless they want to take a chance to get tagged in the open on a gen. You can always prioritize. If someone is good at loops, leave them and search gens. You can usually get at least a hit on someone who is working on a gen and since they use pallets, make them use it, break it and go back to the gen to check.
When I say pressure gens, I'm talking about removing survivor's off of the closest ones that are together and don't follow a survivor across the map if a majority of the gens are nearby. Keep them there to break the pallets. By the time the ones in the back are done, they're forced to work on the gens with all the pallets broken nearby.
I do this almost every match unless I play Freddy or Demo. Once someone is hooked, they can either let them die but they still can't do gens because you're near everything and there is no more safe pallets around or you hook trade and redo the same steps. If you spend 4 minutes chasing a survivor, you chose to lose by default. You have to learn to juggle and prioritize. Always choose areas that have the majority of gens near each other and do your best to break those pallets.
Most survivor's will stay on one side of the map while that person is being chased so they don't get in the chase and can focus on gens. That's how you beat them. If they attempt to do the gens in the majority group, you attack. After awhile, you WILL either have hurt everyone or no gens are being done. Self-Care takes awhile, saving gen time for you to chase someone else. Focus on the majority of gens closest together. That's how you play Rank 1 Killer and I play every killer. I even got videos of me playing Rank 1 as different killers so don't say you can't do something. Its map knowledge and knowing your tiles. That's what wins chases.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2239888#Comment_2239888
Never had a problem with his add-ons, to be honest. Waking up was enough for them to disappear, and it was kinda rare for me to run them. I prefered things like the Block add-ons, Pill Bottle, Class Photo, and the list goes on.
As for the Dream Transition, 7 seconds was fine. People doing stuff in your face was a problem, and I actually have a solution. This is staright from my own idea for a Freddy rework:
-During the Dream Transition Survivors can see The Nightmare intermittently and they suffer from the Incapacitated status effect.
Problem solved. I actually have a full concept with the power and add-ons :) I really, really, really, REALLY miss my main, so this topic gets me excited.
Incapacitated would have been great for old Freddy. It would have made him able to protect his hexes and gens.
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@CoalTower said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2239870#Comment_2239870
Are you a masochist or a sadist? I really can't tell 🤣🤣🤣
Why not both? XD
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@Marik13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2239881#Comment_2239881
Yeah exactly. No I'm all for this, I think that's actually a pretty solid idea. Like you said it would make gen kicking matter a bit more and be a little more effective even without perks.
Oh, they cleansed your Ruin? You can still get a decent amount of regression. You have Pop? You get 15% plus 3% plus 25% base regression faster still. Base Pop is 25% so its only 18% but you still get the faster regression over all. This way, you still get a bit of regression no matter if you're perk less or not.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2239866#Comment_2239866
Glad to see that you agree. We truly lost what made DBD special, what made DBD fun. I still remember my first killer match: Old Freddy on Torment Creek. It was on that exact moment that I realised I had found my favourite game.
Now, if I don't watch a few old videos every time I want to play, it gets difficult for me to truly enjoy my trials. All I want is my game back. All we want is our game back.
Is that too much to ask?
My only real issue with old Freddy was his gen regressing add-ons being stacked and the fact that you couldn't hit someone for 7-9 seconds (can't remember the correct time) so you just had to stand there, while someone cleanses your hex in your face or finishes a gen in your face. It drove me up the wall lol.
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@Marik13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2239853#Comment_2239853
Actually....yeah that doesn't sound like a bad trade off at all actually. Actually I was thinking the other day why don't killers have like a base % that they take off with the initial kick and before the regression starts? That coooouuuld theoretically bring up gen pressure and make gen rushing a little harder to do if small bit of progress gets taken off first before regressing. But then again judging by my short time on these forums so far I'm sure someone will come up with a counter point to why that's a terrible idea and why gen tapping and hook tapping are all good things to keep in the game =/.
I don't see the issue since the perks will get a slight nerf, but in return, base killer kicks will actually matter now.
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Better be a cute Teacher. You have been a BAD student! Beats them with a metal, sharpened ruler xD I would play as her every match xD
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2239847#Comment_2239847
It truly is, my friend. It truly is. I've already lost my favourite killer and my favourite maps, and I don't even have words to express how much I miss them. I would do anything to return to version 2.4.0 or better yet, even further in the past.
This is not the game that I fell in love with back in 2018, and that is what disheartens me most. I want my game back.
I'm with you. Some of the balances were needed but we lost what made the game really enjoyable. This game has become killer/survivor instead of just a chill game. The first time I saw 4 Dwights in all red duck walking across Haddonfield was probably the most funniest ######### I have ever seen lol. Man, those were the days.
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@Marik13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2239586#Comment_2239586
I just want to add to this, gen tapping also makes any sort of pressure you have just null as well. For instance, I was in a game the other day chasing someone away from a gen that I had just kicked, but every time I'd just start to chase someone would come and just tap the gen then run. So I'd kick and the original guy is back, loops me, taps gen and continues to run. I dunno, but to me I really don't think that's fair that you can stop gen regression just by tapping it. Seems kinda cheap especially when you consider that killers have to do the full animation for any action they do.
I know I know, "gen regressing perks" yeah well...if you're playing a killer who doesn't have any gen regressing perks then ######### do you want me to do? Go rub the magic lawn gnome's belly and just wish for one to sprout up in a match? Again the whole tapping thing that survivors do just feels kinda cheap and feels more like an exploit of a bad system.
I've made a suggestion to fix that. Nerf Pop by 10% and give base kicks a 3% regress and take off Tier 3 Ruin and add a 25% faster regression by default. This way, running those won't kill the survivor's too much but the killer has better reasons to kick gens now by default. You gen tap, you lose 3% for the trouble.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2239788#Comment_2239788
I know what you are talking about. I have my fair share of dissatisfaction with the current state of the game, yet not for the same reasons.
Sometimes we would do anything to return the our good ole' days, wouldn't we? Back when the game was different, the community, everything was different, really.
Completely agree. Man, I have so many fond memories of the old DBD. When people would play Dwight Locker Roulette, Duck duck goose and even would try to farm with players if everyone threw up cakes or BPS's. Those days are far gone. I remember playing as a Wraith and just clanging my bell to show I was friendly and farm because I had a bad day. Those are rare now. You do that ######### now and they just rush the ######### out of the gens or the killer will do their best to kill everyone quickly to try and piss everyone off who threw the cakes/BPS's. It's sad, really.
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I just want an on-point Shaggy outfit. I would buy it in a heartbeat.
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@Sweet_Potato said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2239749#Comment_2239749
You have no idea how statistics works.
I know enough to get me around. 75% would mean all games end in a 3k. Right now, a majority is a mixture of 2k's and 3k's with the majority being 3k's over all. If they're using the same statistics for Rank 20 killers and survivor's added in, a rank 15-20 killer will mostly 3k-4k, distorting the actual numbers. If we take that out, I bet statistics would say the average is closer to a majority of 2k's per match at higher ranks. That's if you lump all killers together.
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@Kirkylad said:
Is Scott Jund a dbd overlord because whenever he has an opinion people always praise it as the right one instead of having their own.
The only issue with spirit is the standing still mind game, other than that she's fine.
Its also the fact that you can't tell where she is while phasing, not just the standing still.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2239739#Comment_2239739
It sure did, my friend. It sure did.
Wish I was here to actually see that in-game. Must have been a much better time to face Nurse.
Well, I can add that to the extremely long list of good things I've missed due to the unfortunate fact that I didn't know about Dead by Daylight's existence until late 2018.
Old Nurse was probably the most fun you could have if you knew how to face her and if she was really skilled. It was never a dull moment and you never truly felt safe but you also never like you was a punching bag with no counters either. She was a Beast but took a lot of time to actually do well with her.
I've played this game for years but even now, I'll disagree with someone and I'll get labeled a survivor main or a killer main even though I play both sides. Ive been on the side of asswhoopings from old Nurse and I took my lumps learning her as well. Just really fun times. I sometimes miss old DBD but my only anger is when the devs try to balance something that was already balanced because they don't know how to face a killer or play a killer.
Nurse was just an unfortunate mishap. I don't always reply to threads but just saying, I've been playing this game for about 5 years now and I've always had fun. I use to do crazy plays and got rewarded for it. Now it seems any type of fun gets ripped out over the sake of balance. You make a funny post, immediately get backlash.
We stopped enjoying the game somewhere and now its all about being competitive but people need to play both sides and see if something is just brutal. You might like a killer a certain way or have a map that can be looped safely forever but you got to realize that other's are human.
If you don't want to get curbstomped every match as survivor/killer then you also should play the the other side and see if its fun to go against it. If its not, speak up even if it makes the game a little harder. Everyone deserves fun but balance should be #1 but don't make it unbearable to play at the same time. (Speaking in a general way)
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@Sweet_Potato said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2239676#Comment_2239676
Same is valid for killers when they achieve only 1 or 0 kills.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2239690#Comment_2239690
Dude, you know what average means? You can still 4 k even when a game is balanced around 25% or 1 k. There is a statistical term called variance.
You can see it the other way? Why should a good team be punished by the game being balanced to the killer side on average with even bad killers receiving 2 k vs a very experienced survivor group?
The game is more balanced than it has been since its inception in the genre. Right now, 3k's are usually by the best killers, not an average. If they keep trying to add "balance" so to get a 3k means you have to bust your ass and a 4k being a myth, that is a problem.
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@GeneralV Here's a prime example of why Old Nurse was more balanced than new Nurse with counterplay in mind. Old Nurse had to blink on top of someone for a hit, right? There was an old counter you could do at a pallet after they blink. You stand on one side of the pallet and they had to choose to either fatigue because they could get stunned by the pallet since their lunge was too short but if they used that second blink, a survivor could run and slap the pallet down when she blinked to the other side if you was quick enough.
If she blinked at the ground, she would either he slapped still or let the survivor runaround the loop again and try to use your 2 blinks again to catch them. New Nurse can swing through the pallet so now you have to decide if she's gonna swing on you or throw the pallet and she blinks through and hits you/grabs due to the animation lock, making Nurse even easier just due to the lunge alone. That one counter is now forever gone.
No more mindgames at pallets. They're all unsafe and if you stand near a wall to see where the Nurse might blink, you might get unlucky and she just walks up, causing you to lose distance because the new Nurse can juat lunge normally so she doesn't have to fully rely on just accurate blinks. Hope that explains why the new lunge actually makes her skill gap even shorter.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2239658#Comment_2239658
That doesn't sound like a bad suggestion, to be honest.
Thank you. The reason the Nurse was loved and hated was due to you having to memorize her blink distances plus try to accurately blink a second time to actually land on the survivor for a hit. That quick thinking is why people love Blight and hate Blight. Giving her a normal lunge took that out because if you get "close enough", you can hit them. It just took a lot of the skill out.
I know it sounds like I'm ragging on her but I was one of the few people who enjoyed going against her and just wanted her blink add-ons changed and thats it but giving her a normal lunge destroyed her skill gap. You could run a bad Nurse years ago but even bad ones can get a hit even if their blinks are cheeks now.
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@Sweet_Potato said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2239635#Comment_2239635
Why should a survivor play that game if he dies in 3 out of 4 matches?
Because there are 4 of you. If 3 people get smashed because they aren't able to get away or stall a killer for time with the amount of pallets on the map with time on their side, why should the killer be punished for doing his/her job? If the killer is chasing and camping people, they usually lose with a 1k, maybe 2k for their efforts due to NOED.
A good killer who is punished because survivor's aren't staying on gens or can't escape the killer with pallets, that's on them. Why should a killer play just to get a 2k no matter how well they do? Why would I want to play a game where no matter how good I got, no matter how hard I played, I have a handicap to make 2 people feel good about themselves when its a 4 vs 1? If 2ks become the norm, I BET you'll stop seeing killers.