Revert Clown
Why has Behavior over-reacted to Fog Vials and nerfed them into the ground but the moment people realize that Clown is absolutely busted in chase it takes them weeks upon weeks upon weeks to fix it. You have the answer staring you dead in the face Behavior, revert the Clown buffs until you decide on a different buff/nerf patch for him. Instead we are left here to rot with brain dead Clown gameplay because you have your collective thumbs up your arses.
You were so quick to attempt to fix other things but now it's "We want to make sure we test this change in the PTB" 🙄
We already know you struggle immensely with when to listen to the community and when not to. For once in the miserable existence of this game, use your brains to realize you can just revert Clown changes until you find a better option.
Comments
I’m fine as long as BHVR makes some adjustments within the next couple of weeks. They never adjust killers this quickly. I’ve only seen one or two Clowns over the past couple of weeks, so it hasn’t bothered me that much I guess. If Clown was more common I’d be a lot more upset. Of course in those couple of matches at least one teammate DC’d immediately.
What makes clown so overpowered now?
by moving with mach 10 speed over the map when dropping yellow bottles at his feet. Faster then lithe, sprintburst. You cant reach anything before he catches up. And there is absolutely no downside to his out of this world speed.
So him moving fast is what makes him OP right now?
What clown is doing now is something he could nearly always do. Clown is every so slightly stronger in chase than pre patch. If his pinks were still 2 second linger and 15% it would have definitely been a substantial buff.
Like I do agree reverting clown would probably be best. But not for some of the reasons you provide.
SM was just a super saiyan m1 killer and she was taken out back. Clown ain't gonna last in this state either.
We will have some adjustments to Clown during the next PTB in early September, which is right around the corner now.
Why the wait for these changes when the Fog Vial Changes happened week after week? Why not revert Clown in the mean time while the Live game waits for the PTB Changes?
Hopefully the changes approximate a full reversion. There is nothing much salvageable among the changes that were implemented, it was basically a rework to give lobotomites a killer to play
So here's my question to you.
Prepatch, his haste was 10%, now its 12%. Can you explain how suddenly that makes him massively OP?
The problem is that the add-ons that increases the haste effect remained as they are, so Clown can actually have 15% haste. Also, the buff to trigger time for yellow cloud to be active made the situation worse imo.
"Him having the extra haste from the update is a bit annoying but the worst part is that his bottles pop in 1 second"
Try reading next time
Clown could always spam haste across the map. Clowns could use a pink bottle first and then haste after so you would be hindered first and more inclined to stay at the tile. What's happening now is what clown could almost always do but skill floor is 6 feet in the ground. Good clowns already placed their haste when you're making rotations to the point where they weren't standing still for 2 seconds waiting for it to activate giving you a window to run to the next tile.
Clown is strong but not OP. He is still M1 killer and easy to genrush. The problem is maps. Forgotten Ruins, Haddonfield, Ormond Lake, Fallen Refuge etc. On this maps Clown is op, but almost every killer is op on this maps.
So we have to wait another month and a half before we see any changes, whereas the fog vials were immediately nuked in two weeks, I understand.
This is why it’s a double standard, when people say BHVR should have done a “wait and see” grace period before nerfing fog vials.
How many survivors said BHVR should have done a “wait and see” before nerfing Ghoul? How many survivors said BHVR should have done a “wait and see” before nerfing new Clown?
Survivors are always demanding for killer nerfs to happen immediately, and then getting upset if they don’t get a huge grace period before survivor nerfs happen. It’s a bad double standard.
I come probably late
The biggest problem people have with clown now is… he run always as if he was on bloodlust 3, (so instead of 115%, he is at 130%) and it's more oppressive with some of his add-on where he can have this speedboost for almost 20 seconds
Add that with the cloud who hinderd survivor for 14%, and there's just a rocket who can almost bypass any looping tile without thinking
Everything you are telling here:
He did allready before this buff.
People seem not to be able to remember how clown was before or how to read patchnotes. Clown is basicly as strong as he was before hes just way easier to play.
I can Qoute it if you want:
And people are now pretendingt that hes WALKING MACH 10!!!
And we totaly need to remove the 2% increase hastebuff.
dons now and before. NOTHING CHANGED. They removed 1% haste from each addon and gave it to clown basekit.
We can also read the nerfs:
If you are using both addons NOTHING CHANGED REGARDING TO HIS SPEED. Each of his addon got removed 1% haste and instead he got 2% more haste basekit
This begging for clown nerfs remembers me so hard at freddy after his release. People who dont understand the killer or the game or are even bothering with reading patchnotes to see what changed are crying for nerfs. And yes Clown did got a buff, the cloud actavation time was reduce down from 2sec to 1. Hes way easier to play and you dont need that mutch skill anymore. Now nearly everyone can do what before only a couple people could. But that has NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS MAXIMUM SPEED.
If you're looking for double standards, you're looking in the wrong place.
We've already covered the ground of "when does haste break the game?" And the answer for when "free, infinite haste" is game breaking is 3%.
Because, with this new clown buff, we've completely turned 180 on every reason that MfT was nerfed. The two loudest reasons were "3% of free infinite haste breaks the game" and "it stacks with hope, haste stacking is broken".
Haste stacking already had the mask removed when the devs actually listened and announced they were removing all haste stacking. Then suddenly those same people realized they were going to be affected by losing killer haste stacking and screamed so loud the devs pulled the plug on it immediately.
Now, were seeing that "well, 12%+ haste that you can use infinitely is perfectly fine, just give it more time".
Please.
The honest answer here is that people want it to be "ok" this time because it's killer haste, and survivors should be treated differently. Period.
……Or we can admit that BOTH those situations are double standards.
As in it’s a double standard to demand immediate killer nerfs, but also demand for mandatory grace periods before nerfing survivor stuff.
And it’s ALSO a double standard to complain about MFT, but also think it’s ok for Clown to have a much higher uptime on haste boosts.
The problem we have there is both sides want an easy ride. Killer's want free kills and survivors what free escapes.
Now i play clown as my main always have and yeah the buff to 15% haste with addon is insane im finding myself getting a lot more hits when i normally wouldn't. I don't class myself as an extremely good killer either. The one thing they can do is change the haste addon that makes it 15% instead of 12%. Base kit 12% with no addons to buff it would be fine. He would still feel playable at most tiles without being to over the top meaning survivors don't have a chance.
For those complaining about the 1 second bottle timer for activation it really isn't that big of a deal. Even if u make it 2 seconds you will just throw the bottle an extra few metres and a second earlier so you maintain the speed it won't change much. The only thing it will change is the first speed boost being 1 second slower.
The big thing that is getting me hits is survivor greed. So many people are playing loops like they are playing old clown and i think a lot of the issue comes from survivors not knowing the timing anymore to loop properly. Learn the timing and you will get that stun and escape. Just run smash hit and stun the clown and u will get away job done.
I think everyone should wait and see what the PTB brings next month and in the mean time just deal with clowns as they come.
Nah nah nah, before the patch, he was not able to do that because you have to manage how to throw your bottle to get the haste effect, in indoor map, it was the most difficult
Now, you just have to throw it at your feet and you get the effect, the change of the speed, AND the cooldown before the tonic take effect IS the problem
The double standard is from the devs themselves. They are the ones who gave us the expectation that changes won't be made until a length of time has passed to get enough data and feedback to make a decision. Then they applied this standard only to killer while insta nerfing survivor things.
Ghoul literally got 25 changes before the grace period started. Springtrap also got nerfed immediately on release day.
There was never an expectation that killer stuff needed a mandatory grace period before any changes are made.
I’ve literally said there should never be a mandatory grace period for anything, before changes are made.
As in, it was always fine that Ghoul had a bunch of nerfs before the grace period started. I never wrote a post saying Ghoul should have had a mandatory grace period before any changes were made. It didn’t happen.
You already know people saying he's not strong can't last 10 seconds in chase against any clown, he's so fast it's free hits anywhere even shack is weak, post videos of yourself countering turbo haste clown ?
his main power should be purple bottles not yellow, haste is broken we've seen this before with MFT and skull merchant but devs don't learn from mistakes. Just 4% of noed makes all the difference, safe loops aren't safe anymore
Your point is invalid.
Ghoul had a giant list of changes before the grace period started. He was overall made weaker, between PTB and the start of the grace period.
As in, the grace period happened AFTER he was overall nerfed. The fog vials haven’t stabilized yet, because BHVR hasn’t even fixed all the bugs that existed since the PTB.
I love seeing killers cope that clown is totally fine with unlimited 15% haste with no perks. When things like MfT was game breaking. Ghouls first adjustment which also fixed bugs and game him a minor buff was two weeks to fix, invisible spring trap and mismatched bloodstain took a few weeks to fix but streetwise perk bug got Kill switched almost immediately. Fog viles lasted a week. Then a second week to double nerf. The is astounding. And of course now that the status que is clearly set with well defined patterns killers will claim "No! We definitely don't believe in grace periods!" With the unsaid (for you). It's kinda a joke.
You conveniently ignored the fact that BHVR absolutely did not want to kill switch Streetwise, and only did so after that was an absolutely massive amount of complaints from players on both sides of the game.
You’re also ignoring the fact that grace periods should never apply to the kill switch. How exactly would that work? Players would “wait and see” if the game-breaking bug is really a problem?
And as expected, hook line and sinker. I was hoping somebody would point that out to only further my point. Guess killer backlash is just more concerning for them.
I was afraidI was afraid my last post was a little too subtle so let me clarify.
No, they shouldn't allow StreetWise and other bugged perks to have a grace period… They should be kill switched immediately. But notice how you didn't mention that spring trap wasn't killswitched or should have with him being invisible and having his blood stain not matchup where his killer was looking. I don't believe bugs should have Grace periods, but if they're fine letting certain bugs in the game play out while they take time to fix it. Why not others? The patterns shows that survivors get killswitched pretty quickly with only a very few situations where Killers get kill switched
To be fair, the way they use the kill switch is strange often times. Sometimes they'll hop on it immediately, while other times they'll let a bug slide a patch or two. The issue with green glyphs comes to mind immediately since it was used to gain max value out of Merciless Storm.
What exactly are you arguing? That any bug, of any severity, should be kill switched?
Which means you think fog vials should be kill switched, because they currently have opacity bugs?
I think this is why BHVR finally said they are going to rework the kill switch criteria, and then actually tell us what the kill switch criteria is. I honestly have no idea what the criteria has been so far.
Never gonna happen when we have Skull Merchant being left in a gutted state for a year
The problem is 100% the yellow bottle activation speed. I played a lot of Clown a couple of years ago when the activation speed was 2.5 seconds and only the top 1% of Clown players could hope to move like he does for basically free now. It was changed to 2 seconds more recently so it should just be changed back to that or 2.25 seconds maybe, to balance out the small haste increase.
I always remember a solo queue game I played on RPD against a P100 ttv that was by far the best Clown player I've ever seen. I'd never seen someone use the yellow bottles so well. He was doing this stuff 18 months ago through the skill he'd built up playing so much clown. Now anyone can do it. Taken away any skill from the killer into a brain dead killer that anybody could pick up and zoom around with.
Just sort out the activation speed. That would sort it in a matter of seconds.
Something clown could almost always too. If clowns wanted to learn angles to where they would always run with haste pre patch they would have learned.
I've constantly heard this song and dance of "oh hes always fast now" when pre patch clown could always do that. He could always use haste across the map and he could always get the best out of haste perk stacking. The difference now is pinks are very terrible without ether 15% so most of the time you only really use them to force medium vaults.
If you throw it at your feet you stand there for 1 second giving the survivvor 4 meters of extra distance. Far more distance than they would have gotten prepatch. You still have to aim the bottles.
Ghoul's first adjustments happened on launch day, and it does count. Survivors complained about Ghoul during the PTB, and changes happened as a result. And the changes that happened two weeks from launch date, were also PTB changes, that weren't ready at launch date. And it took two weeks for the changes to happen, because it took that long to code the changes. It wasn't because there was a two week grace period.
And technically, by your logic, the Fog Vial changes "don't count" because the PTB changes haven't all been implemented yet. As in, BHVR is still trying to fix the bugs that existed in the PTB.
You keep refusing to acknowledge the fact that BHVR said there often isn't enough time to fix PTB issues for launch date, and the main purpose of the hotfixes is to implement the PTB changes that weren't ready by launch date.
In a attempt to get this thread back onto the topic of Clown, I will now put on a hat that says "I've never played Killer" and attempt to evoke a player like that.
klowm badde
I’ve voiced similar frustrations. I’m sure that they have seen all of the concerns and have gotten enough data by now to make some adjustments.
To get back on topic, BHVR really needs to get rid of haste stacking.
Because it is completely ridiculous when Clown uses builds like Batteries Included/Machine Learning/Rapid Brutality/Save The Best For Last.
Revert the clown. Don't "adjust", just put him back how he was.
Fingers crossed. So far my best guess has been that when a bug is interesting enough, they wanna see what it does. Which makes you feel a little like a lab rat when you think about it.
The Fog Vial nerf is even worse than I thought. I thought they replaced the cooldown with the charges.
But yesterday in 2v8 I got a Fog Vial out of a chest and saw that it had it's cooldown ON TOP of the charges while also being way weaker in effect.
I mean yeah, they needed a slight nerf but not a Skull Merchant treatment.
An idea to make them better:
- Increase charges to 3.
- Remove Cooldown.
- Increase opacity back to 40 %.
- Buff Iri. Add-on back to 10 % and remove one of the downsides.
And fix the Fog to not be useless or overpowered, depending on which map you're on.
Someone at BHVR must be really proud of what they did with Clown and is using all of their influence to keep it in the game no matter what.
You really want to tell me that a 2% increase movespeed on his ability without addons "destroyed clown and made him OP"?
Like really?
But before he was too weak THATS exacly why they buffed him. Is everything okey with you? I mean how do you even think about "solutions" like that?
Is that irony? Clown wasn't much weaker than he is now. And was significantly better designed as a killer. By the way, the rework was very likely solely due to how much survivors dislike going against him (and yes, this resulted into a complete failure, to nobody's surprise besides BHVR designers).
bloodlust would be lost by the first hit but yeah that's pretty bad
Maybe not removing haste stacking fully, but instead put a hard cap on HOW MUCH haste one can accumulate. Say +15% for both sides.
This sets the speed cap at 115% for survivors (exhaustion perks, and hit boost excluded from this rule), 130% for standard killers, and 125% for base 110 killers.
Bigger differences would ultimately be unfair for either side.