I won all my killer games for a year. Here is everything I learned. (Long post)
Hi good people of the DBD forums It has been a long year, but it is finally over.
.
I have won every killer game I have played since last year, today, and I learned a lot along the way that I would love to share and discuss.
Before we get into an argument, I will define what I called a win:
• 4 kills
• 3 kills + hatch/gate if I was in control and allowed it
I know there is an ongoing debate about hooks vs kills, in which I am pretty firmly in the “kills” camp, but that’s a discussion for a different thread. If there was an obvious hacker (VERY rare), then I did not count a loss. I can remember only two instances of this happening, where people just escaped the trial before gens were done and without hatch being opened. A key escape of 2+ people, had one happened, would have been a loss.
I will try to answer some questions before they are asked:
.
How many games did I win?
• About 700, by my estimates
.
Why did I do this?
• I know pushing for wins is not all there is in the game, but I felt it would force me to learn as much as possible about The Hag and DBD from the Hag’s perspective.
• Just wanted to see if I could
.
Do I have a life outside of DBD?
• Yes. The pandemic gave me time and an excuse to play more games. I am a PhD student (studying games, partially) so the rest of my time is pretty full.
.
I only won because I did not play YOU or YOUR SWF!
• If you are in NA East, I probably did
• No, I am not interested in playing you now for your stream or whatever
• Might be true, might not.
.
Do win streaks matter?
• I think so, I got to play a ton of games against a wild array of skill levels and got to experience a lot of different game-states. Having won all of them, I think that I learned a lot, at least.
• A win streak, IMO, is just saying that against X number of teams, none were able to beat me. That suggests that the odds of finding a SWF that CAN beat me is 1/X. The bigger X is, the less likely you are to find such a group.
.
Which killer did I use? What was my build?
• I played every killer game as The Hag. She just clicked with me and I love her playstyle. She is one of the harder killers to learn and play optimally, IMO, so it was a great challenge.
• I played a lot with my build. I tried all the new perks as I unlocked them. I played a lot of meme-y builds, too, but my favorite has been:
• STBFL: Obvious pick for hag. Excellent.
• Pop or CI: I like CI because it helped me stay calm in the early game, but Pop is probably “better”. I also don’t love kicking gens. I feel like the time is better spent keeping the web set up.
• MYC: My favorite killer perk. This allows the hag to skip hook traps to free up traps for better locations while also increasing her lethality. Very strong.
• Franklins: Keys were risky, but beyond that people tend to lose their minds when they drop items that they like, so trapping them is a pretty solid move
• Add-Ons: I always used a TP range (cicada) and a Phantasm Duration (Egg shell) when I could. Any colour was fine. Never used any purple or pink add-on.
.
This win streak is proof that the Hag is OP!
• I am one person playing in one region with one particular playstyle. This streak really does not prove anything about the game or the Hag. This is not data, this is an anecdote and, probably a pretty majorly outlying one.
• That being said, I think that the Hag does have a couple of bigger issues:
- Low skill hags get a TON of value from hook traps with very little input. The skill-in to power-out ratio seems broken to me. I think that a perfect solution could be that rescues break traps in a small radius around the hook. This would force newer hags to get better without really interfering with high skill play.
- Add-ons: OMG her shackles and mint rag need looking at. They should probably be nerfed. Her Scarred hand and Waterlogged Shoe need reworks, too, to make them more viable.
• Hag is not OP. I think that she has plenty of counterplay (see below). I also think that people do not like the counterplay that hag forces, so they do not do it and then complain that they lost. She makes for a very different game on both sides. Whether or not that is healthy or fun is a matter of opinion, I think. I think that there are stronger and weaker killers. Hag is fantastic, but can be beaten.
.
Hag has no counterplay!
• I had a lot of close calls vs some very strong SWF (and non SWF) teams along the way.
• I play 50-50 killer and surv, so I also play my fair share of hags and I rarely lose to them, now.
• Some survivors went as far as acknowledging that they could have crouched over traps on the map but preferred not to because they didn’t think that was fun counterplay. I understand not liking a matchup, but if you want every killer to provide a similar survivor experience and allow you to play in a similar way without needing to adapt, I imagine that a lot of matchups feel awful. I promise that if you devote some time to the VS Hag matchup, it will be a lot more enjoyable and winnable than you think.
.
How to beat the Hag, by a Hag main:
• Harass her traps:
- Identify quickly that you are playing vs a hag and keep her placed trap count low. If you are a competent runner, take a hit if you have to, just don’t let her set up her whole web.
- As soon as she picks up another survivor, start running around like a maniac to pop traps while she cant punish you for it.
- If a teammate gets injured, you could also try to harass traps and hope she drops that person and teleports to you instead, saving a down/hook, hopefully
• Always ALWAYS look at a trap you expect to go off
- Her camera swing allows the hag to place traps in locations that will force survivors to take one path over another. They can slow vaults, also. This swing does not occur when you look at a trap before it goes off.
- This allows you more freedom to dodge even an instant hit and pick your path
• Abuse loops:
- The Hag is a slow muddy lady. Greed untrapped pallets and loops to extend chase time.
- The longer she is on you, the less time she has to set her traps
• If you are in a chase, always move towards the opposite direction from which the hag came
- There are traps there.
• The game is about prediction and knowledge:
- The Hag wins when her game knowledge and prediction is just better than the survivors. She is not mechanically intense, but she gets the most value from just knowing things like running speeds, safety of pallets, totem spots, etc.
- You have to think like a Hag. Figure out where she WANTS to trap and avoid/harass those places as you go. Places like shack, dropped pallets, lit hexes, are all going to be trapped.
- A good hag will adapt to you, as you adapt to her. Watch for spicier traps in grass, outside of intersections, near unused hooks.
• Map awareness
- If you can, call out trap locations over comms
*Try to figure out where the hag is on the map at all times. When she is in chase and injures a teammate you should get some info. * Keep track of her locations so you can better anticipate traps in those areas
• Perks
- Borrowed time is a very strong counter to hook trapping hags. You already bring it, so keep that up!
- Urban Evasion is not good enough to bring in hopes that you will get value from it vs a hag, though it is a very good perk in certain situation
- Fast healing perks will save you lots of time, which is extra important in this matchup. I like Inner Strength, personally. Resurgence might be great, also.
- Most exhaustion perks really don’t bother the Hag. If you get away just to step in a trap, you still go down. Dead hard is an exception. Incredibly strong perk. It lets you dodge instant TP hits and cover up a mistake or spicy trap.
• Franklins
- Do not ever go back for an item you lost unless the hag is holding another survivor. You can think of it like you are taking one of her traps hostage, if you want to.
• Make your choice
- After a rescue, run back in exactly the way you came towards the rescue. It is the safest way to avoid a down. Bring the rescued surv with you when possible.
• Hooks
- Crouch while rescuing AND while being rescued. If the hag is far away, you are safe.
• Camping hags
- This is the big one for a lot of people.
- Bad hags will sit right near a hook after putting 2+ traps around it. Treat this almost like a leatherface. Do gens and get out.
- If you want to rescue from a heavily trapped hook, you need 2 people. One pops the traps and the other gets the rescue as the hag chases or botches her TPs.
• Scroll wheel hag
- Not really a threat. Good hags never do this, even if you think they do.
- A scroll wheel hag does not pick her TPs, she is basically a bot that instantly loses to any mindgame or successful harassment.
- Better hags will choose when to TP, but may still be faster than you would like them to be, that is part of the skillset.
.
Is the game killer-sided?
• I play 50-50 surv and killer.
• I think that solo q players have it the worst, then killers, then SWF, then top tier killers, then optimal SWF.
• I have no doubt that there are plenty of SWFs that would have demolished me. The info and coordination they have access to would be more than enough to deal with a strong Hag.
• I think that top tier killers: Spirit, Nurse, Hag, Blight (In that order, fight me). When played by a good enough player have a pretty easy time against the average red ranked SWF.
.
I must have been super sweaty and mean
• I try not to be mean. I try to give hatch after good games and I never tunnel or camp.
• Sweat, though? Big time. I was trying to win every game for a year. Yeah, I slugged early in some games against scarier teams. I brought a very strong build with good add-ons.
.
Who is the best Hag player?
• Michi. Please go watch his videos on Hag and Trap guides. Even if you don’t want to play the Hag, it is a great resource in learning to play against her. I only won games because I watched his stuff. Space Coconut gets an honourable mention, too. He has some (older, now) good hag videos and plays with a different style from Michi.
.
What is the most important thing for a Hag player?
• Knowledge
- Know the maps, tiles, perks, pallets, escape routes.
- Play survivor a lot.
• Style
- Develop your own playstyle. Be a scary unknowable mud lady. If they can predict your trap placements, they will beat you.
.
How is playing the Hag for new players?
• Play a lot of survivor and a lot of other killers before you decide to main Hag. Learn everything you can about the game from both perspectives. This will also prevent you from not being able to ever swap to a more standard killer, as only playing Hag does not teach you some of the basics.
• You are going to lose a lot. Just be fine with it and learn.
• Watch high level Hag gameplay and try to figure out WHY each trap is placed and keep tabs on when each go off and under what circumstances
.
What do I think about MMR?
• I don’t really see how an MMR system will be able to compare killers (simple metrics of success) to survivors (vastly more complex measures of success), so I don’t think it will be a very good system
• That being said, my games were a LOT harder during some of the MMR tests, though queue times were unbearable. Recent tests felt pretty much like normal games. Take from that what you will. Personally, given my experiences during testing, I think that good killers can still reasonably get big streaks, though it may be harder. I think it comes down to the odds of finding a good enough team and the point at which queue times will get too long in trying to find them.
.
Why did I make a new account / what is my steam name?
• Based on my average end game chat, I think some people have a hard time losing to Hags. I also think some people have a hard time knowing what can and cannot be learned from data. As such, I think I will spare myself the hate mail.
.
Did I lose?
• No. The goal was for a year and now that is over. I am not interested in sweating hard for wins anymore. I want to play friendly Demo for a while.
.
Do I have any neat tricks?
• Yes! I stumbled across two fun mindgames that I would love to share with you:
• Egg tech:
- You instantly teleport to a trap, but the sneaky survivor was baiting you with sprint burst and ran away before you could slap. Don’t move. Follow them with your eyes, moving ONLY in the X axis, mimicking the phantasm’s movements. A lot of them will come back towards you, thinking you just have phantasm duration add-ons (Eggs). I’ve gotten a ton of hits from this and even some gen grabs.
- I like it because it works against good players’ knowledge and expectations. Nobody would TP just to stare at you, right? Standing still is a mindgame lol.
• Slapping wood:
- You are on the other side of a dropped pallet from a survivor. I typically don’t love trapping very close to some pallets and prefer nearby choke points so this happens sometimes. When the hag breaks a pallet, she is one of the few killers who use their hands and not their feet or some weird animation. That means that if you lunge at the pallet, it will look very close to her breaking animation to a lot of survivors. They will usually run away and right into a trap that you are now free to TP to.
- If the survivor knows what Hag’s animations look like you are going to embarrass yourself and confuse them. Let’s call it being unpredictable. I love this so much.
.
That’s what I could imagine people would want to know. I hope we can have a discussion about this stuff and try to learn from each other. Let’s keep it civil.
GL out there in the fog.
TL;DR: I won all my killer games for a year, learned some stuff about the Hag, thought I should share.
Comments
I have a 500 match streak as basement chest guardian bubba, no chest has been opened yet
You da real MVP
Thank
Ah. Found the next challenge.
This is great - I'll take a look through the various playlists sometime tomorrow.
For real, thanks.
It's shocking this person has so little exposure.
Let's just say there might be a reason for it. Lol. He is very talented, but he could really work on his vibes.
I am really upset by all the replies. Ok, 700 win streak is a huge claim and you are free to not believe it, but there is no need to make this thread 4 pages of "is this true?".
I thank you for some valuable info and making me want to play Hag again.
By the way, 700 wins in 1 year doesn't mean around 2 games a day? I don't really think someone sweating 4ks while being good can't win 2 times a day and then stop playing untill the next day.
Generally, stopping after a few games is great because the more you go one day, the more tired you get and less good.
All I want is for people to get hyped about the Hag, both playing as and against her.
I think she is really interesting but a lot of players on both sides don't like her and so dont take the time to learn her.
I really hope you try her out again and try out the techs I wrote up at the end.
Enjoy your games <3
Her camera swing allows the hag to place traps in locations that will force survivors to take one path over another. They can slow vaults, also. This swing does not occur when you look at a trap before it goes off.
I'm a little confused about how this works. Do you happen to have a link to a video of what you mean for us visual learners?
Here you go. He explains it better than I can. Excellent video, btw. I recommend the whole thing, if you are interested in the Hag.
The veracity of the claims on this post are explicitly tied to whether this is, in fact, "valuable info" or someone typing about something where they've either falsified their experience or their perspective - at best.
It's an interesting post, and obviously written by someone who does know how Hag functions. That's where the inherent value ends, full stop. The post goes so far as to shoot itself in the foot by first citing numbers (implausible ones to boot) and then a pretense that the perspectives gained aren't empirical to a degree; you can't have both, and it rubs people the wrong way to claim otherwise.
Pfsh. While you were asleep I kept grinding my wins, tell you what. Here's a little advice from a real master - Ruin combines well with Undying.
You keep this up and we might have a little 1v1 situation on Cowshed.
Honestly on one hand that number is pretty big and with the games current RNG really hard to achieve, on the other hand this is with a full build on a killer that many don't know how to fight (although surely there were also quite a few groups who knew at least the basics). She is also probably one of the best killers (I wouldn't know since I suck as her) and most indoor maps are REALLY good for her as emergency "easy" mode maps. I think if a relatively "easy" 50 win streak with no perks is possible, then that MIGHT also be possible, even if VERY unlikely.
I agree never losing a game in a year, even with the sweatiest playstyle and most broken build possible, is extremely difficult. I don't even know if "difficult" is the right word. All it takes is the multiple layers of RNG to deliver you to A.) a bad map b.) a bad variant of the bad map, and C.) the rare extremely good 4 man team. With all of that combined, if I'm anyone but Nurse Blight or Spirit I don't see myself winning.
All of these streaks are really less about skill (obviously skill is relevant) and more about how lucky you get with avoiding the perform storm of near unavoidable loss.
This has to be my favourite thread so far!
@QwQw Thank you for the mention!
@Raccoon what exactly do you want me to analyze/say?
If you want to be another notch in my belt, sure.
Gonna be honest, my belt has so many notches now that it's just some weird, flappy, misshapen piece of leather.
Be careful what you say - a 1 v 1 vs me will pit you against my mind AND my greasy hands.
Thanks for dropping by.
Really hope you'll be more active in future threads, too :D
I'd like you to weigh in your thoughts regarding the likelihood of a 700 game streak using Hag - Just a brief analysis similar to @ScottJund's.
It in no way has to be identical or agree or w/e - Just want your honest thoughts.
I dont really understand why there are people, who are so triggered from this post.
I will never say i believe what someone on the internet says without proof, but why are people bothered by that claim? 700 wins isnt really a sign for exceptional skill, it means you are good and were lucky (but im not sure about the lucky part)
The facts are:
Hag is S-tier
Most people dont know how to play against her
Use of strong addons
Map offerings
700 matches in one year are not much. If you play at the right time, you can reduce the chance for a sweaty team.
So with all that 700 wins are not an feat that shows impressive skill, which exceeds every other player, its just a top 10% player, who maybe got a bit lucky with matchmaking.
So there is no boosting in this, only some nice information about hag. To be fair the only interesting info for a decent hag is the standstill mindgame.
If it is about hag or totems or perk rework then yes!
Basing on my own experience with hag, the fact she is s Tier, that survs refuse to use the counterplay they have and some other factors I would say that this is entirely possible.
Of course you also need a ton of luck because you can be skilled with any killer as much as you want, sometimes you cant do anything against a Team.
Also I read carefully what the OP wrote and the way the hag is described with powers, counterplay, Info etc. Shows me that this person indeed has played hag a ton. Many of the described things you can only know when playing as her for months (since many of the Infos I kept for myself until I am done with my hag guide) so all in all I think this is possible if the Stars align perfectly!
If you refuse to prove your 700 win streak "by estimate", remove it from your post then.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
From my personal experience, I prefer the other add-on (tp range, trap setup, trap duration) over Rusty Shackles since the shackles don’t cause the survivor’s camera to spin, which helps a lot with the instant teleport hits.
I also noticed a lot more instadown value from Agitation+Starstruck compared to MYC.
You could only prove a winstreak if you are doing it live.
What does it matter whether the winstreak is real or not?
I too am skeptical about some of the details, but this post was well-written and polite, so I don't care! It'll be interesting to see if the advice helps in game.
Michi!
I can't believe you are here.
I appreciate what you said about my post. It is unfortunate that I don't have the vods to back it up.
Without your guides, I would not be nearly as good a Hag player as I am, nor would I enjoy the game as much. Thank you for that, please keep making great Hag content.
Also, if you egg tech someone I am going to lose my mind.
Why harass someone for proof on what is an informative and, not only believable, but also pretty mundane post.
To others, this is an informative post by someone with clear knowledge and effort put into it. This is perceptible to other knowledgeable and impartial players. For example, Michi, who is in this thread and is also a very knowledgeable hag main.
Totally agree with you.
Thanks for coming by!
Big streaks are an interaction of luck and skill, imo. I think Hag is up there with Nurse, Spirit, and blight, but I think a lot of the reason for it is that most survivors don't know proper counterplay. In making this guide, I hoped that I could bring some of what I learned to the survivors to help them in the matchup.
I know people hate playing as and against the Hag, but her counterplay can actually be really fun and rewarding.
For these 4ks, were any of them facecamping 1 hooks by any chance, as that would be considered a win under the 4 kill rule, no?
700 lol probably not even 7.
If I camped, I risked them slamming gens without me getting traps on the map.
Not worth it. Much better to play optimally.
No need to thank me. I am glad that you put so much time into learning her and creating this thread. It would be great if you join the scenes for the next hag guide.
I dont need any vods, I know the situation. I will try the egg tech, sounds fun
I would be honored and super excited to do that. What's the best way of reaching you to swap info? You could dm me on the Reddit thread by the same name.
I do normally hate playing against the hag but that's usually because they're the 10 traps around the hook/in the basement type.
Good hags are a usually fun match but way rarer than bad hags which are rare themselves
Discord would be the best to share via Text. By any Chance are you in the dbd group?
I am not, yet, but I will reach out to you on discord later. I am out for a while.
Very excited!
u do really believed him ? lol
he is red rank .. making new account.. playing vs yellow - grey survivors
we saw millions of players just like him
That line of thinking falls apart because they would eventually pip up to and remain in red ranks after a certain number of games - Rank reset would eventually only push them back to 5.
The God of DBD. Arrived. Kappa.
I said "if true".
Also no reason to attack the guy. At least he put effort in his post. It is your choice whether to believe him or not but he wasn't rude or anything.
Okay. This is cannot be true because of the RNG.
I play like 5 games of killer and 1-2-3 people escape with a key with 1-2 gen(s) left, or doors are far away.
In 700 games you made no mistakes that costing a match. Not even one (1) game out 700. Impossible.
Also, you need hard proofs to back up your streak. Like streamers VODS. You can't just say i sacrificed 2800 survivors without any proof.
Well, some of them lived apparently because YOU allowed it.
I think i read 10 words. no one said killer was hard?
This post has the same vibe as people who make a new account on Soulborne forums and say they beat the entire game with no guides, didn't die once while also finding every boss/questline and now here's how they did it.
Good on you for the info post but if you want people to learn more about Hag then you should take out the 700 win thing. It takes away from the post and it's only thing people will care about as you can already see. That fact you seem to refuse to prove it as well even through a simple custom match or stream would show at least some of your skill also takes away a lot from the post. If you have nothing to prove then why bring it up at all? It's needless grandstanding and will only serve to annoy people.
"I played Hag for an entire year and here is my experience."
Use that title while never bringing up the 700 wins and all of a sudden you have a post with people actually talking interest with Hag, maybe inquiring into some of your games, learning strategies, etc.
As it is now, it's just a well spoken troll post whether you mean it as such or not. Personally, I'd request the post be closed and then remake it in the guide section while keeping out the wins, though honestly the damage has already been done and I don't think many people are going to take you seriously.
As another note, alt accounts are not allowed in any fashion on the forums. I'm not sure if that answer was in reference to the Reddit post and you've never been here before but just as a heads up.
I see you put the decimal point in the wrong spot. Don't worry, I gotchu dawg:
How many games did I win?
About 7•00, by my estimates
I've never made an account here before.
You are entitled to your opinion about the streak and you are welcome to believe what you want to.
All I wanted was to bring attention to the Hag and to help people with counterplay.
I am not interested in streaming for hours or posting gods, as they will not satisfy everyone's need for proof. I am not going down the rabbit hole of what is and is not enough for everyone. I address the lack of proof right away.
I think I learned a lot about the game and wanted to share. I hope you find something useful. Some people certainly have, and that's plenty for me.
Damn this post is really raising some people's blood pressure, although that's the usual response to hag I guess
You're not bringing attention to Hag at all though. You're bringing attention to yourself because you claim you did a 700 win streak.
Why bring up the win streak at all if you just want to share your experience with Hag. As I said, it's needless grandstanding that only hurts your apparent objective. So why did you bring it up if not to show off?
By bringing it up the info dump becomes meaningless outside of a few people who are just being nice to you because everyone else is calling you out.
I mentioned it because it is true, which I cannot prove. Hag is an S tier killer and I want people to know more about her. People may believe whatever.
I think some people can look past whether they believe the claim and read the post. Everyone can take exactly what they would like, positive or not.
Thank you for this post and also well done on your meeting your goal ^^
Hag is my all time fav killer. I am not exceptional at her but I do tend to do very well with her unless I am against a bully squad... but I mean that is the case for all killers with me ^^" Just like you I watch I a lot of Michi and learn by watching them!
Hag is the most fun killer imo. If I were to attempt any win streak I would use her or Trapper.
Weird how negative people are being in these comments. I thought this post was really interesting and informative! Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for the positivity! I hope your games go well. If you remember this thread, come back and let me know it the info was helpful :)
I am going to try your Egg suggestion and use the phantom as a tracker ^^
I guess thanks to Michi I play a lot like them. Get net set up and maintain it. Let survivors do all the work for me ^^ mwahahaha. My fav add ons are the quick set traps and the aura reading ones. I try and keep a trap near the 4 gens I am protecting. Survivors hear my TR, leave gen which they think I am heading towards, but the aura reading show me the direction they are going and I intercept them.
This works double well with Dark Devotion and other TR supressing perks ^^
Ok big question for you:
What is your fav Hag cosmetic??? did you play with the same cosmetic all year or did you mix it up????