I won all my killer games for a year. Here is everything I learned. (Long post)
Hi good people of the DBD forums It has been a long year, but it is finally over.
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I have won every killer game I have played since last year, today, and I learned a lot along the way that I would love to share and discuss.
Before we get into an argument, I will define what I called a win:
• 4 kills
• 3 kills + hatch/gate if I was in control and allowed it
I know there is an ongoing debate about hooks vs kills, in which I am pretty firmly in the “kills” camp, but that’s a discussion for a different thread. If there was an obvious hacker (VERY rare), then I did not count a loss. I can remember only two instances of this happening, where people just escaped the trial before gens were done and without hatch being opened. A key escape of 2+ people, had one happened, would have been a loss.
I will try to answer some questions before they are asked:
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How many games did I win?
• About 700, by my estimates
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Why did I do this?
• I know pushing for wins is not all there is in the game, but I felt it would force me to learn as much as possible about The Hag and DBD from the Hag’s perspective.
• Just wanted to see if I could
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Do I have a life outside of DBD?
• Yes. The pandemic gave me time and an excuse to play more games. I am a PhD student (studying games, partially) so the rest of my time is pretty full.
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I only won because I did not play YOU or YOUR SWF!
• If you are in NA East, I probably did
• No, I am not interested in playing you now for your stream or whatever
• Might be true, might not.
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Do win streaks matter?
• I think so, I got to play a ton of games against a wild array of skill levels and got to experience a lot of different game-states. Having won all of them, I think that I learned a lot, at least.
• A win streak, IMO, is just saying that against X number of teams, none were able to beat me. That suggests that the odds of finding a SWF that CAN beat me is 1/X. The bigger X is, the less likely you are to find such a group.
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Which killer did I use? What was my build?
• I played every killer game as The Hag. She just clicked with me and I love her playstyle. She is one of the harder killers to learn and play optimally, IMO, so it was a great challenge.
• I played a lot with my build. I tried all the new perks as I unlocked them. I played a lot of meme-y builds, too, but my favorite has been:
• STBFL: Obvious pick for hag. Excellent.
• Pop or CI: I like CI because it helped me stay calm in the early game, but Pop is probably “better”. I also don’t love kicking gens. I feel like the time is better spent keeping the web set up.
• MYC: My favorite killer perk. This allows the hag to skip hook traps to free up traps for better locations while also increasing her lethality. Very strong.
• Franklins: Keys were risky, but beyond that people tend to lose their minds when they drop items that they like, so trapping them is a pretty solid move
• Add-Ons: I always used a TP range (cicada) and a Phantasm Duration (Egg shell) when I could. Any colour was fine. Never used any purple or pink add-on.
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This win streak is proof that the Hag is OP!
• I am one person playing in one region with one particular playstyle. This streak really does not prove anything about the game or the Hag. This is not data, this is an anecdote and, probably a pretty majorly outlying one.
• That being said, I think that the Hag does have a couple of bigger issues:
- Low skill hags get a TON of value from hook traps with very little input. The skill-in to power-out ratio seems broken to me. I think that a perfect solution could be that rescues break traps in a small radius around the hook. This would force newer hags to get better without really interfering with high skill play.
- Add-ons: OMG her shackles and mint rag need looking at. They should probably be nerfed. Her Scarred hand and Waterlogged Shoe need reworks, too, to make them more viable.
• Hag is not OP. I think that she has plenty of counterplay (see below). I also think that people do not like the counterplay that hag forces, so they do not do it and then complain that they lost. She makes for a very different game on both sides. Whether or not that is healthy or fun is a matter of opinion, I think. I think that there are stronger and weaker killers. Hag is fantastic, but can be beaten.
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Hag has no counterplay!
• I had a lot of close calls vs some very strong SWF (and non SWF) teams along the way.
• I play 50-50 killer and surv, so I also play my fair share of hags and I rarely lose to them, now.
• Some survivors went as far as acknowledging that they could have crouched over traps on the map but preferred not to because they didn’t think that was fun counterplay. I understand not liking a matchup, but if you want every killer to provide a similar survivor experience and allow you to play in a similar way without needing to adapt, I imagine that a lot of matchups feel awful. I promise that if you devote some time to the VS Hag matchup, it will be a lot more enjoyable and winnable than you think.
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How to beat the Hag, by a Hag main:
• Harass her traps:
- Identify quickly that you are playing vs a hag and keep her placed trap count low. If you are a competent runner, take a hit if you have to, just don’t let her set up her whole web.
- As soon as she picks up another survivor, start running around like a maniac to pop traps while she cant punish you for it.
- If a teammate gets injured, you could also try to harass traps and hope she drops that person and teleports to you instead, saving a down/hook, hopefully
• Always ALWAYS look at a trap you expect to go off
- Her camera swing allows the hag to place traps in locations that will force survivors to take one path over another. They can slow vaults, also. This swing does not occur when you look at a trap before it goes off.
- This allows you more freedom to dodge even an instant hit and pick your path
• Abuse loops:
- The Hag is a slow muddy lady. Greed untrapped pallets and loops to extend chase time.
- The longer she is on you, the less time she has to set her traps
• If you are in a chase, always move towards the opposite direction from which the hag came
- There are traps there.
• The game is about prediction and knowledge:
- The Hag wins when her game knowledge and prediction is just better than the survivors. She is not mechanically intense, but she gets the most value from just knowing things like running speeds, safety of pallets, totem spots, etc.
- You have to think like a Hag. Figure out where she WANTS to trap and avoid/harass those places as you go. Places like shack, dropped pallets, lit hexes, are all going to be trapped.
- A good hag will adapt to you, as you adapt to her. Watch for spicier traps in grass, outside of intersections, near unused hooks.
• Map awareness
- If you can, call out trap locations over comms
*Try to figure out where the hag is on the map at all times. When she is in chase and injures a teammate you should get some info. * Keep track of her locations so you can better anticipate traps in those areas
• Perks
- Borrowed time is a very strong counter to hook trapping hags. You already bring it, so keep that up!
- Urban Evasion is not good enough to bring in hopes that you will get value from it vs a hag, though it is a very good perk in certain situation
- Fast healing perks will save you lots of time, which is extra important in this matchup. I like Inner Strength, personally. Resurgence might be great, also.
- Most exhaustion perks really don’t bother the Hag. If you get away just to step in a trap, you still go down. Dead hard is an exception. Incredibly strong perk. It lets you dodge instant TP hits and cover up a mistake or spicy trap.
• Franklins
- Do not ever go back for an item you lost unless the hag is holding another survivor. You can think of it like you are taking one of her traps hostage, if you want to.
• Make your choice
- After a rescue, run back in exactly the way you came towards the rescue. It is the safest way to avoid a down. Bring the rescued surv with you when possible.
• Hooks
- Crouch while rescuing AND while being rescued. If the hag is far away, you are safe.
• Camping hags
- This is the big one for a lot of people.
- Bad hags will sit right near a hook after putting 2+ traps around it. Treat this almost like a leatherface. Do gens and get out.
- If you want to rescue from a heavily trapped hook, you need 2 people. One pops the traps and the other gets the rescue as the hag chases or botches her TPs.
• Scroll wheel hag
- Not really a threat. Good hags never do this, even if you think they do.
- A scroll wheel hag does not pick her TPs, she is basically a bot that instantly loses to any mindgame or successful harassment.
- Better hags will choose when to TP, but may still be faster than you would like them to be, that is part of the skillset.
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Is the game killer-sided?
• I play 50-50 surv and killer.
• I think that solo q players have it the worst, then killers, then SWF, then top tier killers, then optimal SWF.
• I have no doubt that there are plenty of SWFs that would have demolished me. The info and coordination they have access to would be more than enough to deal with a strong Hag.
• I think that top tier killers: Spirit, Nurse, Hag, Blight (In that order, fight me). When played by a good enough player have a pretty easy time against the average red ranked SWF.
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I must have been super sweaty and mean
• I try not to be mean. I try to give hatch after good games and I never tunnel or camp.
• Sweat, though? Big time. I was trying to win every game for a year. Yeah, I slugged early in some games against scarier teams. I brought a very strong build with good add-ons.
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Who is the best Hag player?
• Michi. Please go watch his videos on Hag and Trap guides. Even if you don’t want to play the Hag, it is a great resource in learning to play against her. I only won games because I watched his stuff. Space Coconut gets an honourable mention, too. He has some (older, now) good hag videos and plays with a different style from Michi.
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What is the most important thing for a Hag player?
• Knowledge
- Know the maps, tiles, perks, pallets, escape routes.
- Play survivor a lot.
• Style
- Develop your own playstyle. Be a scary unknowable mud lady. If they can predict your trap placements, they will beat you.
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How is playing the Hag for new players?
• Play a lot of survivor and a lot of other killers before you decide to main Hag. Learn everything you can about the game from both perspectives. This will also prevent you from not being able to ever swap to a more standard killer, as only playing Hag does not teach you some of the basics.
• You are going to lose a lot. Just be fine with it and learn.
• Watch high level Hag gameplay and try to figure out WHY each trap is placed and keep tabs on when each go off and under what circumstances
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What do I think about MMR?
• I don’t really see how an MMR system will be able to compare killers (simple metrics of success) to survivors (vastly more complex measures of success), so I don’t think it will be a very good system
• That being said, my games were a LOT harder during some of the MMR tests, though queue times were unbearable. Recent tests felt pretty much like normal games. Take from that what you will. Personally, given my experiences during testing, I think that good killers can still reasonably get big streaks, though it may be harder. I think it comes down to the odds of finding a good enough team and the point at which queue times will get too long in trying to find them.
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Why did I make a new account / what is my steam name?
• Based on my average end game chat, I think some people have a hard time losing to Hags. I also think some people have a hard time knowing what can and cannot be learned from data. As such, I think I will spare myself the hate mail.
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Did I lose?
• No. The goal was for a year and now that is over. I am not interested in sweating hard for wins anymore. I want to play friendly Demo for a while.
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Do I have any neat tricks?
• Yes! I stumbled across two fun mindgames that I would love to share with you:
• Egg tech:
- You instantly teleport to a trap, but the sneaky survivor was baiting you with sprint burst and ran away before you could slap. Don’t move. Follow them with your eyes, moving ONLY in the X axis, mimicking the phantasm’s movements. A lot of them will come back towards you, thinking you just have phantasm duration add-ons (Eggs). I’ve gotten a ton of hits from this and even some gen grabs.
- I like it because it works against good players’ knowledge and expectations. Nobody would TP just to stare at you, right? Standing still is a mindgame lol.
• Slapping wood:
- You are on the other side of a dropped pallet from a survivor. I typically don’t love trapping very close to some pallets and prefer nearby choke points so this happens sometimes. When the hag breaks a pallet, she is one of the few killers who use their hands and not their feet or some weird animation. That means that if you lunge at the pallet, it will look very close to her breaking animation to a lot of survivors. They will usually run away and right into a trap that you are now free to TP to.
- If the survivor knows what Hag’s animations look like you are going to embarrass yourself and confuse them. Let’s call it being unpredictable. I love this so much.
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That’s what I could imagine people would want to know. I hope we can have a discussion about this stuff and try to learn from each other. Let’s keep it civil.
GL out there in the fog.
TL;DR: I won all my killer games for a year, learned some stuff about the Hag, thought I should share.
Comments
Who cares if it's true? You don't have proof and are unwilling to try to so why did you bring it up at all when it would only hurt what you're trying to accomplish? How many people do you truly think would take the post seriously after reading such a claim. Not in pity since most people are calling you out but in genuine interest for Hag. Certainly not many.
I really want to believe you mean well and are not just trolling but your responses are completely nonsensical. You had something really nice here and you just spat all over it because of that claim. It just feels like such a waste since most people don't give Hag the time of day.
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I don't love the aura traps, I feel that I get enough infro just from the phantasm. Setting speed is addictive though haha.
I always play with the same cosmetics. Blue coloured default hag and weapon. Twin terror hair.
So you say. I don't mind. I am happy with the post and many of the responses. Not for you? Also fine.
I guess to each their own. I wish you the best mate.
You guys are funny. You asking who cares if its true, when you care about. So theres your answer.
You and others make it seem like he boosted with the 700 wins as if he had found the cure for cancer. But he never boosted with it and he certainly shouldnt. 700 wins is impressive, but not a sign for skill. More a sign of impressive luck or exploiting the broken matchmaking. Dont get me wrong, you still need to be good, but thats it. Its nothing compared with no hit runs in DS, its even less a sign of skill then reaching the highest rank in Apex, LoL etc.
So why would anyone care about this anecdote before the information?
I was saying who cares if it's true in relation to the reason why he posted it in the first place since he only wanted to show tips and experiences with Hag. Of course people will care after reading such a claim so it takes away from what he was trying to do.
The claim of 700 wins is also the biggest in DBD history. As far as I know I don't think another killer streak even comes close which would make this guy some DBD Legend. There was one with 200 on Twins and I saw a Nurse one with 185. If you know any that's higher I'd be curious to see them.
You're short-selling the claim IMO. I think it'd be a ton easier to no hit a dark souls game then it would be to get a 700 win streak on any killer. Hell, Otz has an all bosses no-hit DS2 run and he struggles at times to get even 50 wins playing as sweaty as he can.
Edit: I forgot his streaks were addonless so it takes away from my point a bit but even with add-ons I don't think he'd be able to get even close to 700.
A 700 win streak is not only a huge sign of skill an ability but also of astronomical good luck. It's way more interesting to talk about then any random Hag tips and tricks so asking for proof or even some minor gameplay is warranted. The fact OP refuses makes it seem like they're lying and that in turn also takes away from the tips and experiences they posted.
Well one time my Doctor won 50 matches straight before losing. This was just before Blight had came out. Clown and Trapper has yet to “lose”. They always get 3-4K per match. Never Entity Displeased. I lost track if their winnings. Clown is well over 50, but I’ll use purple add ons (Pinky Finger is basically overkill). Trapper is probably 30. Whenever he is about to lose he magically turns the match around. 😂
So. Is this like a "my dad works for EA" scenario's?
I am in the DBD discord, but I cannot find you.
Can you DM me on reddit or tell me how to find you in the channel?
Thanks <3
Name is Michii (picture is the middle node of the blood Web)
I asked for proof, got nothing, and decided to leave the thread (that is until, this gem caught my eye - joy!). Of course, I always enjoy these sorts of responses from people trying to make a ton of assumptions about me based on nothing other than asking the op for something tangible to go on. Video proof, specifically.
Outrageous claims, outrageous proof. Winning all your games for a year straight is borderline impossible, and if you were actually embarking on such an ordeal, why not document it? Seems bizarre to go through all that effort just to make a post claiming something you cannot substantiate. But hey, logic and requiring reasonable proof is being self-important I suppose.
Thank you for being an example of why this community is seen the way it is. Much appreciated.
Most people would be able to tell after 5-6 R1 games whether it's a godlike Hag or not.
This reminds me of that Clown guy that kept talking about how great the Yellow bottles were/are - The threads are probably still kicking around if you search for them.
I am not going down a rabbit hole of what is and is not enough for everyone. I did not provide proof. Believe what you want to.
I think the rest of the post is useful. If you disagree, thats fine.
GL in your games.
Also, yellow clown bottles have potential! I don't get the hate for them tbh.
Sent a DM
No proof would satisfy everyone except for 700 vods. I did not collect that data, so I can't prove it.
I hope the rest of the information in the post can help people. I am not interested in convincing random users that the streak happened.
For those who want to read about Hag, I hope the info use useful.
I am also here to discuss the Hag and topics related to her.
Here's the thing - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're an excellent hag player. Fine, that's not an unreasonable claim.
My question is: why include a streak you cannot prove in the title of your post, rather than naming the thread based on its intention (which seems to be sharing hag knowledge for those interested).
"Played Hag For a Year: Here's What I Learned."
Seems to be a more honest title, no?
I would never say this in a post game chat because I don't want to be rude to a killer, you're opening up yourself for it though by having this thread.
God Hag is so annoying to go against. For exactly the same reasons you stated, I don't want to adjust.
Congrats on your 700 win streak.
They definitely do, for sure - I picked up some stuff watching Otz get some wacky hits with them.
The person in question mentioned them and their applications non-stop and people wanted video evidence because they could not emulate what was being said/may have been doing the techniques incorrectly.
Those people are now skeletons.
I did take a look through their post history to see if I could find the specific topic (there were way too many), but I did notice that there was one there that said they were looking for players to make a video guide - If that video was actually created, then I am wrong and that person actually delivered - I'll take the L.
I did see a topic complaining about the lack of Hag counterplay, though, that was quite popular - Figured I'd mention it because of your own thoughts on Hag counterplay :P
In contrast to their topic, and in your defense, I've previously said that the information you posted was valuable/helpful. On top of that, it's easily identifiable in game and can be emulated by most skill levels in a match - being able to explain things in a clear, concise, and relatable manner is a talent, for sure, and definitely helps your readers.
I appreciate your feedback. IMO, if a few people feel the same way as you do, that is enough to call the post a success.
What was your in game name? I'm East and curious if I played vs you. I guess you can DM me it if it's against forum ToS
I am not sharing that info.
I will say that I always play as a blue hag with the Twin Terror hair, though.
It doesnt take away anything from the tips he posted. Why? Bc none of those tips is new. Its stuff, which everybody who plays hag on a decent level knows and you find the same tips in every hag guide, most of the time in the beginner section. Most guides are far more detailed, too.
The sad part is that there are so many players, who dont know this things. Not many play hag, but as experienced survivor you should also know this things. This lack of understanding is the part, which makes hag suited best for such a long winstreak among all strong killer.
Lets take Otz as example. He said that Hag was the easiest winstreak. He didnt even try, used meme builds, no perks and he lost it over 50 on purpose. Addons make it easier and have you any idea how helpful map offerings are?
If you would have watched Otz in his DS2-time, you would know that every winstreak, even the Nemesis, which was one of the hardest, was a joke compared to DS No-Hit. It took forever and if you only watch the two videos, you will see how frustrating it was. 700 is a lot longer, but its not really high concentration the entire time. The Nemesis streak shows also the best strategy to get a high winstreak. Otz failed so many times, but why did he get it suddenly? He used something against streamsniper, but the important thing was that he changed when he played. Later in his streams the opponents got suddenly weaker. If you use that, its makes it a lot easier to win consistently. And if you only play 2 matches per day its possible. Otz plays 700 matches in less than a month.
Yea I did a 5000000 win streak with Trickster instead
Sorry, but I don't believe you at all
It takes away potential interest which is pretty important. A lot of people in this thread didn't bother to even read or look at the rest of his post after seeing the 700 wins. When I first read the post I had no interest with the tips or experience he had and only wanted more info about the streak. Had the 700 win thing not been there I feel a lot more people would have taken a deeper interest in his Hag tips which is what OP wanted in the first place.
As you said, a lot of people don't even know about Hags existence so any post to garner more interest in her is nice. It just feels like a waste since so many people aren't going to bother to read it or acknowledge the info after seeing the 700 win streak comment as you can already see with some of the posts in this thread. I just think it's a shame.
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree with the Dark Souls thing. I've got around 1600 hours in dbd and maybe a 150 in DS2 (which granted isn't a lot for either game) and I feel like doing a hitless run would be a lot easier and more consistent then doing a 700 win streak. It'd be more nerve racking on a constant basis due to the length but I also feel it'd be more consistent at a certain level. With DBD it'd be more luck then skill (though still a lot of skill needed) at that point.
I've really only watched Otz's few videos he has of the DS2 runs and some of his streak challenges live and I just can't see DS2 hitless being harder. I just might not have enough experience in either game to have a proper opinion but going from what I've seen of his videos and my own time in the games, I just can't see it.
how is stbfl an obvious choice for hag?
STBFL gives you a lower cooldown after a successful hit. Ideally, this allows you to act much sooner, letting you TP again to another trap that goes off - negating the speed burst you gave the survivor and surprising them before they can figure out what happened - or start a chase with much less of a disadvantage. Being slow already, the Hag needs any advantage she can get if she is actually going to get stuck chasing.
I have gotten a lot of hits (often without a TP, or shortly after one) only for the survivor to run into a nearby loop. STBFL just increases the Hag's lethality in those situations by a ton.
Hag is very much about time management. Every second you save helps you better control and keep up your web.
Very nice post. Has some good information for new Hag players, and for Survivors looking to up their game. So many of them wet themselves as soon as they see it's a Hag because she is rarely played, and it turns into an absolute shitshow as they feed her.
I'll have to try STBFL myself now. I usually run MYC, M/A, and then whatever 2 others I feel like at the time.
I'm really glad you liked it.
Try Franklin's, too! Watch survivors lose their minds chasing items that couldn't help them anyway.
One of life's great joys.
STBFL is a solid choice on most killers that use M1 to get hits, Hag or not.
Maybe i just overestimate Otz in DS2 and its a lot easier for other people. I never played the game myself. But i never can see me doing such things, while 700 wins seem possible for me. Every time i lose with hag its my fault. And i still have a winrate over 90%. Even against old object teams i won consistently. I got only one team in 3 years of DbD, which really countered hag. Granted, i dont play her much anymore, so its more like 2 years, but i have atleast around 1000 matches with her. So if i would play consistently, learn hag more and had enough luck to not get the 1% sweat team, i could get this. I would need to use the time of the day, where i have a chance with trickster without throwing knives at red rank, to have the lowest chance possible for a sweat team.
700 wins are around 120 hours and you are not allowed to lose a match. But you can make mistakes and you can decide matches in four minutes against the average team. So you dont need to be fully concentrated. But maybe i dont care about it so much, bc its a feat of luck and DS2 No Hit is a feat of skill.
For the point with the information. I think without 700 wins most would have never read this post. Nobody wants to play hag, cares about hag or wants to learn counterplay. Otherwise there are plenty of options to get this information without this post. 700 wins have atleast the chance to spark some interest.
OP played 700 killer games without tunneling and camping and won ALL of them. Find the mistake.
The games were in one year, aka 2 games a day. Can't find the mistake.
Doesn't matter if it was only 2 games a day or 20. Nobody wins EVERY game within 700 trials.
But sure, you're free to believe that.
The thing is that most people tend to overlook the "for one year" part. If this guy was playing as much as Otz let's say, then undoubtedly 700 ws is clearly impossible. But at 2 games a day, odds go up a lot.
Is 700 ws a stupid number and a huge claim? Yes. Is it possible, yes, but very unlikely. Does this claim make those legit great tips less valid? No.
people are weirdly focusing on the 700 wins...
let's say you manage to convince op to say "ok, I didn't get 700 wins in a row, I lost some games here and there". then what? what's that doing for you?
the information about hag they shared is solid. the counterplay is valid and work. and if you didn't know about them, it should increase your ability to play as and against hag.
You certainly don't have to believe on the streak, I don't. but it doesn't change anything about the actually useful stuff they posted, so why bother? they didn't even post their channel or even username, so it's not like they are trying to gain a following with it or something like that.
and before someone goes "but why say you got a 700 win streak if it doesn't matter?", would you not talk about a 700 win streak that you got even if you can't prove it? I would.
I think the problem is Hag is rare to see for most people that it's kind of difficult to learn how to counter a good one when you get one. She is definitely the killer I see the least of. I can go weeks and not get a Hag.
Also not every Hag is a good one when you get her.
make totally new account.. which most have 1 main account other smurf account
This is what I have been trying to say.
Thank you.
There are a lot of people who I clearly bothered with the post. I am glad some people can look past its limitations and get what I hope is some pretty useful information.
Go beat some hags!
It's irrelevant, given how the ranking system works.
That would also leave them without any meta perks.
You're doing a very poor job of shooting this person down / understanding how the game works on a basic level :-/
I'm really happy that some people are getting what I wanted from the post.
I hope you use some of the info and enjoy your matches as or against hag a little more!
i would disagree. Only people stbfl is good on are the ones that can damage without m1
ah that makes sense.
Oh God this click bait is still going?.....
I'm not sure many killers get more from this perk than the Hag. It interacts very well with her power.