I won all my killer games for a year. Here is everything I learned. (Long post)
Hi good people of the DBD forums It has been a long year, but it is finally over.
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I have won every killer game I have played since last year, today, and I learned a lot along the way that I would love to share and discuss.
Before we get into an argument, I will define what I called a win:
• 4 kills
• 3 kills + hatch/gate if I was in control and allowed it
I know there is an ongoing debate about hooks vs kills, in which I am pretty firmly in the “kills” camp, but that’s a discussion for a different thread. If there was an obvious hacker (VERY rare), then I did not count a loss. I can remember only two instances of this happening, where people just escaped the trial before gens were done and without hatch being opened. A key escape of 2+ people, had one happened, would have been a loss.
I will try to answer some questions before they are asked:
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How many games did I win?
• About 700, by my estimates
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Why did I do this?
• I know pushing for wins is not all there is in the game, but I felt it would force me to learn as much as possible about The Hag and DBD from the Hag’s perspective.
• Just wanted to see if I could
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Do I have a life outside of DBD?
• Yes. The pandemic gave me time and an excuse to play more games. I am a PhD student (studying games, partially) so the rest of my time is pretty full.
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I only won because I did not play YOU or YOUR SWF!
• If you are in NA East, I probably did
• No, I am not interested in playing you now for your stream or whatever
• Might be true, might not.
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Do win streaks matter?
• I think so, I got to play a ton of games against a wild array of skill levels and got to experience a lot of different game-states. Having won all of them, I think that I learned a lot, at least.
• A win streak, IMO, is just saying that against X number of teams, none were able to beat me. That suggests that the odds of finding a SWF that CAN beat me is 1/X. The bigger X is, the less likely you are to find such a group.
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Which killer did I use? What was my build?
• I played every killer game as The Hag. She just clicked with me and I love her playstyle. She is one of the harder killers to learn and play optimally, IMO, so it was a great challenge.
• I played a lot with my build. I tried all the new perks as I unlocked them. I played a lot of meme-y builds, too, but my favorite has been:
• STBFL: Obvious pick for hag. Excellent.
• Pop or CI: I like CI because it helped me stay calm in the early game, but Pop is probably “better”. I also don’t love kicking gens. I feel like the time is better spent keeping the web set up.
• MYC: My favorite killer perk. This allows the hag to skip hook traps to free up traps for better locations while also increasing her lethality. Very strong.
• Franklins: Keys were risky, but beyond that people tend to lose their minds when they drop items that they like, so trapping them is a pretty solid move
• Add-Ons: I always used a TP range (cicada) and a Phantasm Duration (Egg shell) when I could. Any colour was fine. Never used any purple or pink add-on.
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This win streak is proof that the Hag is OP!
• I am one person playing in one region with one particular playstyle. This streak really does not prove anything about the game or the Hag. This is not data, this is an anecdote and, probably a pretty majorly outlying one.
• That being said, I think that the Hag does have a couple of bigger issues:
- Low skill hags get a TON of value from hook traps with very little input. The skill-in to power-out ratio seems broken to me. I think that a perfect solution could be that rescues break traps in a small radius around the hook. This would force newer hags to get better without really interfering with high skill play.
- Add-ons: OMG her shackles and mint rag need looking at. They should probably be nerfed. Her Scarred hand and Waterlogged Shoe need reworks, too, to make them more viable.
• Hag is not OP. I think that she has plenty of counterplay (see below). I also think that people do not like the counterplay that hag forces, so they do not do it and then complain that they lost. She makes for a very different game on both sides. Whether or not that is healthy or fun is a matter of opinion, I think. I think that there are stronger and weaker killers. Hag is fantastic, but can be beaten.
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Hag has no counterplay!
• I had a lot of close calls vs some very strong SWF (and non SWF) teams along the way.
• I play 50-50 killer and surv, so I also play my fair share of hags and I rarely lose to them, now.
• Some survivors went as far as acknowledging that they could have crouched over traps on the map but preferred not to because they didn’t think that was fun counterplay. I understand not liking a matchup, but if you want every killer to provide a similar survivor experience and allow you to play in a similar way without needing to adapt, I imagine that a lot of matchups feel awful. I promise that if you devote some time to the VS Hag matchup, it will be a lot more enjoyable and winnable than you think.
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How to beat the Hag, by a Hag main:
• Harass her traps:
- Identify quickly that you are playing vs a hag and keep her placed trap count low. If you are a competent runner, take a hit if you have to, just don’t let her set up her whole web.
- As soon as she picks up another survivor, start running around like a maniac to pop traps while she cant punish you for it.
- If a teammate gets injured, you could also try to harass traps and hope she drops that person and teleports to you instead, saving a down/hook, hopefully
• Always ALWAYS look at a trap you expect to go off
- Her camera swing allows the hag to place traps in locations that will force survivors to take one path over another. They can slow vaults, also. This swing does not occur when you look at a trap before it goes off.
- This allows you more freedom to dodge even an instant hit and pick your path
• Abuse loops:
- The Hag is a slow muddy lady. Greed untrapped pallets and loops to extend chase time.
- The longer she is on you, the less time she has to set her traps
• If you are in a chase, always move towards the opposite direction from which the hag came
- There are traps there.
• The game is about prediction and knowledge:
- The Hag wins when her game knowledge and prediction is just better than the survivors. She is not mechanically intense, but she gets the most value from just knowing things like running speeds, safety of pallets, totem spots, etc.
- You have to think like a Hag. Figure out where she WANTS to trap and avoid/harass those places as you go. Places like shack, dropped pallets, lit hexes, are all going to be trapped.
- A good hag will adapt to you, as you adapt to her. Watch for spicier traps in grass, outside of intersections, near unused hooks.
• Map awareness
- If you can, call out trap locations over comms
*Try to figure out where the hag is on the map at all times. When she is in chase and injures a teammate you should get some info. * Keep track of her locations so you can better anticipate traps in those areas
• Perks
- Borrowed time is a very strong counter to hook trapping hags. You already bring it, so keep that up!
- Urban Evasion is not good enough to bring in hopes that you will get value from it vs a hag, though it is a very good perk in certain situation
- Fast healing perks will save you lots of time, which is extra important in this matchup. I like Inner Strength, personally. Resurgence might be great, also.
- Most exhaustion perks really don’t bother the Hag. If you get away just to step in a trap, you still go down. Dead hard is an exception. Incredibly strong perk. It lets you dodge instant TP hits and cover up a mistake or spicy trap.
• Franklins
- Do not ever go back for an item you lost unless the hag is holding another survivor. You can think of it like you are taking one of her traps hostage, if you want to.
• Make your choice
- After a rescue, run back in exactly the way you came towards the rescue. It is the safest way to avoid a down. Bring the rescued surv with you when possible.
• Hooks
- Crouch while rescuing AND while being rescued. If the hag is far away, you are safe.
• Camping hags
- This is the big one for a lot of people.
- Bad hags will sit right near a hook after putting 2+ traps around it. Treat this almost like a leatherface. Do gens and get out.
- If you want to rescue from a heavily trapped hook, you need 2 people. One pops the traps and the other gets the rescue as the hag chases or botches her TPs.
• Scroll wheel hag
- Not really a threat. Good hags never do this, even if you think they do.
- A scroll wheel hag does not pick her TPs, she is basically a bot that instantly loses to any mindgame or successful harassment.
- Better hags will choose when to TP, but may still be faster than you would like them to be, that is part of the skillset.
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Is the game killer-sided?
• I play 50-50 surv and killer.
• I think that solo q players have it the worst, then killers, then SWF, then top tier killers, then optimal SWF.
• I have no doubt that there are plenty of SWFs that would have demolished me. The info and coordination they have access to would be more than enough to deal with a strong Hag.
• I think that top tier killers: Spirit, Nurse, Hag, Blight (In that order, fight me). When played by a good enough player have a pretty easy time against the average red ranked SWF.
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I must have been super sweaty and mean
• I try not to be mean. I try to give hatch after good games and I never tunnel or camp.
• Sweat, though? Big time. I was trying to win every game for a year. Yeah, I slugged early in some games against scarier teams. I brought a very strong build with good add-ons.
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Who is the best Hag player?
• Michi. Please go watch his videos on Hag and Trap guides. Even if you don’t want to play the Hag, it is a great resource in learning to play against her. I only won games because I watched his stuff. Space Coconut gets an honourable mention, too. He has some (older, now) good hag videos and plays with a different style from Michi.
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What is the most important thing for a Hag player?
• Knowledge
- Know the maps, tiles, perks, pallets, escape routes.
- Play survivor a lot.
• Style
- Develop your own playstyle. Be a scary unknowable mud lady. If they can predict your trap placements, they will beat you.
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How is playing the Hag for new players?
• Play a lot of survivor and a lot of other killers before you decide to main Hag. Learn everything you can about the game from both perspectives. This will also prevent you from not being able to ever swap to a more standard killer, as only playing Hag does not teach you some of the basics.
• You are going to lose a lot. Just be fine with it and learn.
• Watch high level Hag gameplay and try to figure out WHY each trap is placed and keep tabs on when each go off and under what circumstances
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What do I think about MMR?
• I don’t really see how an MMR system will be able to compare killers (simple metrics of success) to survivors (vastly more complex measures of success), so I don’t think it will be a very good system
• That being said, my games were a LOT harder during some of the MMR tests, though queue times were unbearable. Recent tests felt pretty much like normal games. Take from that what you will. Personally, given my experiences during testing, I think that good killers can still reasonably get big streaks, though it may be harder. I think it comes down to the odds of finding a good enough team and the point at which queue times will get too long in trying to find them.
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Why did I make a new account / what is my steam name?
• Based on my average end game chat, I think some people have a hard time losing to Hags. I also think some people have a hard time knowing what can and cannot be learned from data. As such, I think I will spare myself the hate mail.
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Did I lose?
• No. The goal was for a year and now that is over. I am not interested in sweating hard for wins anymore. I want to play friendly Demo for a while.
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Do I have any neat tricks?
• Yes! I stumbled across two fun mindgames that I would love to share with you:
• Egg tech:
- You instantly teleport to a trap, but the sneaky survivor was baiting you with sprint burst and ran away before you could slap. Don’t move. Follow them with your eyes, moving ONLY in the X axis, mimicking the phantasm’s movements. A lot of them will come back towards you, thinking you just have phantasm duration add-ons (Eggs). I’ve gotten a ton of hits from this and even some gen grabs.
- I like it because it works against good players’ knowledge and expectations. Nobody would TP just to stare at you, right? Standing still is a mindgame lol.
• Slapping wood:
- You are on the other side of a dropped pallet from a survivor. I typically don’t love trapping very close to some pallets and prefer nearby choke points so this happens sometimes. When the hag breaks a pallet, she is one of the few killers who use their hands and not their feet or some weird animation. That means that if you lunge at the pallet, it will look very close to her breaking animation to a lot of survivors. They will usually run away and right into a trap that you are now free to TP to.
- If the survivor knows what Hag’s animations look like you are going to embarrass yourself and confuse them. Let’s call it being unpredictable. I love this so much.
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That’s what I could imagine people would want to know. I hope we can have a discussion about this stuff and try to learn from each other. Let’s keep it civil.
GL out there in the fog.
TL;DR: I won all my killer games for a year, learned some stuff about the Hag, thought I should share.
Comments
I'm taking this as Hag is OP and deserves to be nerfed. 700 games is a long win streak for 1 killer so it proves everything to me.
Thanks for proving this to me 😁👍
I doubt there are any players in the game that have won 700 matches in a row on either side, regardless of character/loadout used.
To further clarify, there are scenarios, bugs, exploits, etc that have come up during the past year that make such a claim virtually impossible.
In addition, certain maps also make this claim straight up impossible as it is not possible to control a significant enough area unless RNG blesses you with a 3-gen.
I appreciate it.
I fully expected people not to believe me and to send me hate main DMs. People would rather demonize certain killers than learn new counterplay. I hope that my post helps out the people who want to learn.
It certainly is a lot of wins. I think that some killers can do this, largely because survivors dont know the counterplay. This is my attempt to help out.
Here's a link to the Reddit thread that was previously mentioned, as well:
While I'm skeptical about the win streak, if it is true then congratulations to you. You deserve it. And I say this as someone who has a deep, burning hatred for Hag.
Also, whether or not your streak is real, you're clearly a pretty good player based on all the advice you've provided.
I can believe survivors misplayed enough for you to get a bunch of wins when you go full sweat from the start.
Specially since I appear to be the only survivor that knows to crouch vs hag in the VERY few times I play against one.
One of her best techs is to not teleport. Because people seem to forget you don't have to teleport and they vault back right into you :p
Camping hag is my biggest issue, because the only counterplay is a genrush.
If the only way to counter a vanilla mechanic is to rush the objective, the mechanic is the issue. "just rush gens" should never be the answer.
Thanks!
I hope that the info I provide helps you enjoy the Hag matchup more in the future. She is really strong and she forces a specific counterplay strategy, but if you pull it off, she has very little chance of winning.
Totally. Survivors need to learn the way to beat a good Hag. I think if they did, both they and the Hag would have more interesting games.
You are commenting a lot in the thread and on Reddit, so I figured I would answer you, finally. I am not trying to prove I won 700+ games. I did, but that is really not the main takeaway I want people to have.
I don't mind at all if you think I am lying about the games. I just want people to read the post and learn how to play against solid hag players.
Exploits, keys, RNG, etc all affected my games, but I stayed on top of the news and made sure I played extra nasty when I suspected people of trying to abuse them. I ran franklins almost every game to deal with items, too. I did not need 3 gens very often as survivors rarely got to the last gen.
I get that you will absolutely not believe any of this, and I don't care to argue about whether it is possible. There is no proof that I can give you that will satisfy your skepticism and that is fine. I address this in the post itself.
I posted from a new account, I have nothing to gain or lose from this post. I learned a lot about this rarer killer and want to share what I know with the community.
I do not believe it at all.
I am also well aware that, on the internet, people can be prim/polite/proper while still being dishonest - There's a very obvious reason that your thread is not gaining any steam on reddit.
Either way, I hope you continue to enjoy and support the game.
The highest winsteak I've seen, which is 3-4k, is like 800+ on Twins so I'm not surprised someone could get one Hag who's better than them. Glad I could learn something a killer I never play or go against.
Who performed this streak? I'd like to take a lookeroo.
My bad it wasn't a 800+ win streak but a 800+ killstreak
He's at 100 win streak here:
https://youtu.be/MhpVbC9Oy0gThen 200 here, but there's no gameplay just MMR issues:
https://youtu.be/gRdk2RLwTBwI don't care if it's real or not tbh lol any excuse I can take to call Hag OP I'll take 😂
Yup! Dowsey had 199 4Ks in a row on Twins.
His win condition was more stringent than mine, as a single key escape ended his streak, but I allowed it, as I say in my post.
I think a lot of streamers could win for a year, but it would make for very boring content. Same build on the same killer, sweating every game for a year? Who is watching that?
I am not better than Dowsey or Space Coconut or Michi or Otz. They (and a lot of others) could do this easily and probably with more than 1 killer.
No problemo.
I thought this was what you were referencing - He's a solid player, for sure.
IIRC, he was blown up in MMR because he had to get one of his pal's comp teams to queue or it matched them against said team?
Thanks for getting back!
>:3
I do not think they could do it easily at all.
I'd be interested to see what some of the streamers on here think.
@ScottJund @Michi @CoconutRTS (these are the only three people I know of here that fall into said category) - Any way to get a weigh-in/opinion, please?
Could be an interesting topic of discussion/pov.
This would blow me away lol. I would love to hear what any of them would have to say / answer any of their questions.
I know Scott has been pretty nice about responding to stuff here as of late.
I believe he recently made a video based on someone's request here, too.
I don't always agree with his actions/opinions, but that was a super rad move, for real.
Additionally, I don't suppose you'd be willing to stream some of your own Hag gameplay.
At 700+ wins, I'm sure there are lots of people that would love to see you in action/how you play to add it to their repertoire.
Feel free to take this how you will, but I really don't want to. I don't think seeing a single game of Hag (or 10, for that matter) will convince people I did it, nor am I interested in proving anything.
This was the way I chose to share my knowledge.
I can’t go a single night without losing lol.
Don't feel bad - Most people can't.
You need to be a big loser to win this much, trust me.
Really though, you give up a lot of what makes the game fun to sweat super hard every game for a year.
For reasons that may not be immediately evident to some users, this is certainly an interesting topic.
I really don't mind if you believe me about the streak. I am not looking for recognition or anything, I have hidden my account name.
I think that a lot of wins come from survivors not knowing the counterplay to hag. I learned a lot about her in the last year and came to share what I know with the community.
I also said in another response that plenty of people can do the same thing I did, but it would make for some pretty bad streaming content and is not all that fun to sweat like crazy every game.
You are certainly entitled to your opinions about everything, and I hope you have some about the content beyond personal incredulity. Please, if there is something about the Hag that you disagree with, we can have a conversation about it.
Most of what you're sharing has also been discussed by other users on these very forums, as well as other streamers.
Granted, there is nothing wrong with compiling what you know in one place, but there isn't really anything new or exciting being brought to the table, either. Things like positioning camera before popping traps, harassing traps, perk choice, etc are not really new info/tech.
I mean, it is clear to me that many people do not know this stuff. It is clear in that when I play hag, they do not do this stuff. I dont know other channels through which I can help out, so I posted here. You are free to believe it or not, implement it or not, I really don't mind. I am trying to help in the way I think is best.
gl out there.
I get teams in solo queue that destroy Hags that are quite good/use their perks/trap setups quite well.
Additionally, some of these Hags use better add-ons, as well (ie shackles).
I know it's anecdotal, but, well, we're in this topic.
What is it that you are looking for? You don't believe me, which is fine. You don't think what I have to say is useful to you or your teammates, which is fine.
I think that, for some people, this information will be useful. That's what I am here for.
I'm sure @Michi would love to give this post a read.
To the OP, I'm skeptical whether or not you actually got 700+ wins, but regardless this is valuable information, so thank you.
Well - I didn't read your "experience" because I couldn't get past the opening statement. Why would I believe your thoughts on this amazing win streak - if I don't believe you had this amazing win streak?
That's like someone saying I made $2 million from $50 in a week and here's how you can do it too... yeah I am not reading that either.
If the conclusion is faulty - why read what "evidence" created that conclusion.
I play Hag (granted she is like 5th on my list of killers I play) and can easily create a great how-to play/how-to counter thread about her without having to lie about my skill/accomplishments with her.
THIS is why I think these forums need an ignore/block feature.
It's 100% a good compilation of information (as I've also previously admitted).
It's a shame it was prefaced by such a 'feat.'
If this was posted up as just a simple guide in the guide section, it would have blown up.
@YearOfTheHag
Saying other streamers could do this is a deflection, no human on earth could pull this off. Period.
Someone posted a video of a streamer who got 100 kills in a row. That’s 25 games, a remarkable feat.
Then you come along and are like “please, just 25 games? I’ve won 700 in a row.”
Your claim is none other than stating that you are the best player in all of DBD, not just the best but head and shoulders above some top notch streamers who have put up some amazing vids.
You have to realize that your claim discounts everything you say.
In the interest of keeping things accurate it was 200 wins in a row, I believe. That's 800 kills.
Amen. And he supposedly never had a two escape with this 110% killer.
Otz and others have done 100+ kill streaks but our boy here is saying he’s gotten a 2,100 to 2,800 kill streak.
@Zender
You don't have to believe him but some of you are just coming across extremely condescending.
You don't believe him? Alright no need to say it over and over like damn.
I don't believe it fully but I'm not gonna say that multiple times and not leave the thread alone lol
I'd really suggest that O/P make a new topic under the Guide section.
The info compilation/dump could help people long after this topic fades.
You are free to believe exactly what you want to. You can discount everything I say based on whatever criteria you want to.
Other players can do this, but it makes for very boring content and not very fun games. I have absolutely no doubt players like Michi who almost never lose (while using no add-ons and meme builds) can do this but why would they?
Either the info in the post is useful or it is not. I hope it is.
I cant prove I won the games, so I expect people will not believe me. All I do is play Hag. I don't play any other killer. I have only played maybe 5 games as another killer since starting the game.
If you find anything in the post, besides the winstreak, that you want to discuss/object to. Let me know.
I do hope you read the post and try it out, though.
gl
Once again, I do need to state that I don't believe any other player has ever made such a claim or demonstrated a winstreak anywhere near this caliber.
IE - If Dowsy's 199 is S-Tier, your 700 (possibly +, as you said on Reddit you didn't want to overestimate) would be SSSS+.
No one is saying lie to him or not calling the truth out but constantly coming back is just weird imo.
Like you've made your point known and that is it, is the way I see it.
Yeah he keeps responding but you could just yano, ignore it?
I won't be responding again but was just reiterating my point is all. You do you then man.
There was that dude who lost his 800 plus streak during MMR.
I have a P3 hag that I rarely play and I’m rank 1 on both sides. Eventually you get a team that flashlight kills your traps and loops you, you put down a trap they just run to the next loop. Then there is map RNG.
MYC only excels if people hook bomb and let you port right back.
Oh and Michi couldn’t pull off what you said, not him, not Otz, not any other big name these forums can conjure.
Im not asking you to prove your last 700 games …. I’m asking you to prove your next 50 games (<9% of your supposed total win streak).
If you did a 4-5 hour stream (something people do every day) and you won 50 games it shut everyone up. You won’t, you can’t, your post is meaningless. Besides entertainment.
Watch Michi and tell me MYC only works for hook bombs.
I am not a streamer. I am not going to stream a day of Hag for anyone. This was an attempt to share some knowledge.
I am sorry you didn't learn anything new.
Your point has been noted.
Are you talking about Dowsey's 800 kills in a row?
It wasn't 800 games in a row....unless you mean someone else?
If so, link me up, friendo, and I'll take a look!
Thanks!
This is the video where he lost the streak. His whole Playlist is there on his channel though. If the link doesn't take you there, it was around an hour and fifty eight.