Dead Hard needs to go.
It's not used the way it was intended to be and has zero counterplay on the killer side. A perk, that's intended for the survivor to dodge a killer hit, is now used instead for distance, to reach a window or pallet.
Where's the counter-play on the killer side? You can wait it out if they're using it to dodge a hit, but for distance? There's nothing you can do. They'll take another loop around a structure, you'll be making all the correct manoeuvres, they hit E and make the window/pallet and now the chase can continue for another 30 seconds+ because of it.
There's zero counterplay when its used for distance, that's what annoys me. There's nothing I can do and the fact that every survivor can equip this and waste more of the killers time in a chase is oppressive.
It needs to go.
Comments
You have a instadown chainsaw bubba we're is the counter play to that
K if we're going to remove perks because they "help you get somewhere faster".
Remove Bloodlust too... or better yet? Remove Brutal Strength, Agitation, PWYF, NOED, Devour Hope and all addons that give some sort of speed increase.
While we're at it, the game's too easy, so let's remove all aura seeing perks as well.
I agree
Exactly thanks for making my points
We did and they cried and cried and cried because they couldn't catch anyone. It really showed how bad a lot of killers were when it came to mind gaming.
If you can't play nurse then don't deadhard causes exhaustion wait patience is a virtue
ain't that the truth
“Requires you to be injured”
Wow, huge requirement. I’m sure thats not likely to happen over the course of a game. Sounds very similar to the old mettle of man defence too.
The amount of value anyone can potentially get out of this one perk that can be used multiple times and stack on four survivors with no skill required to use it is far too much.
Bbq m chilli needs to go. Thats annoying as f÷××
Lmao back off on my boy Wraith
He's not the best but if you make the right decisions you can win most matches
Come on man 10 seconds of no scratch marks is clearly op!
Ah yes, then you'll start complaining about killers camping more.
Let's just ignore the amount of instadowns implemented in the game, or the latency issues, or the game bugs which happen to render the perk useless at times.
Lmfao gotta love the killer circle jerk on this forum. How about you all rub each other's backs and coo each other? So sick and tired of all these Dead Hard threads and killers complaining about "no counterplay" when there are several Killer perks that the survivors can't counter... Also, Stridor Spirit exists so don't cry about no counterplay
"It's not used the way it was intended to be and has zero counterplay on the killer side. A perk, that's intended for the survivor to dodge a killer hit, is now used instead for distance, to reach a window or pallet."
It was never meant for dodging a killer; it was always meant to make distance and reach a pallet. All exhaustion perks are. The only reason that it has I-frames is because the hitboxes are so unfortunately large and lag behind the survivor so much that you would get hit from downtown without them. The point of all exhaustion perks, even head on to an extent, is to extend or find loops by making distance.
"Where's the counter-play on the killer side? You can wait it out if they're using it to dodge a hit, but for distance? There's nothing you can do. They'll take another loop around a structure, you'll be making all the correct manoeuvres, they hit E and make the window/pallet and now the chase can continue for another 30 seconds+ because of it."
If they're using it for dodging hits, like you claim, the counterplay is to wait it out. You don't even need to know if they have DH, take it as a given and wait for them to panic. If it's used to make distance, the counterplay is to position and loop correctly. Don't let them line up to a window so that they can DH perfectly and then manage to get a fast vault; if you're at a short wall jungle gym, for instance, run them such that the window vault will be perpendicular, forcing them to DH early and get a medium vault, which may even end up being a hit for you. If they don't, they'll overshoot the window and be unable to vault. Even if you can't zone them and they manage to get an efficient use of DH off, it's just a few extensions of the loop.
"There's zero counterplay when its used for distance, that's what annoys me. There's nothing I can do and the fact that every survivor can equip this and waste more of the killers time in a chase is oppressive."
Not all perks are meant to have direct counterplay. Perks like Pop Goes the Weasel (Unless you're running repressed alliance but why would you run repressed alliance), bamboozle, corrupt intervention, infectious fright, rancor, monitor & abuse, and even tinkerer have no direct counter. They're meant to be buffs; they aren't supposed to always be circumvented. Yes, it can feel annoying and even cheap when you are denied a hit by DH, but it's nothing good and efficient looping can't solve. It is more situational than people give credit for, and takes more nuance than just pressing "e." For every skillful dead hard, there are 20 default megs dead harding into a wall.
Latency problems are irrelevant. I don’t see the devs rushing to buff plague or doctor even though they get cucked by latency all the time.
Instadowns? Lol we pretending that every down is gonna be an instadown now?
again it goes back to mettle of man because i remember that being a big excuse at the time “just use instadowns”
Comparing dead hard to mettle of man is a very weird move, one required you to take protection hits, which at the time mostly didnt work correctly, and required you to hinder your own team when it came to performance just to try and get them.
Dead Hard is, it really really is an -exhaustion- perk, its meant to give distance, its such a simple concept to grasp and its like everyone is going nuts over this perk which isn't so hard to deal with.
You can't deny that going from healthy to downed is pretty much taking out one perk from the loadout in exchange for a hook state, that's just it.
God forbid survivors have an active exhaustion ability, the horror.
Um dead hard for distance pretty much counters every killer except maybe nurse because your using it to get to a pallet when you were greedy or made a mistake. Trapper trapped the shack pallet now your screwed? Just dead hard through the trap and now the trappers screwed. Weren't gonna make the window from that bubba because you outpositioned yourself? Deadhard to it.
The perk is so strong that even though it has problems even working (and that's not really an issue when using it for distance) you still see it all the time. On demand distance in a game about getting to the next loop and avoiding getting hit speaks for itself. There is a reason you see this perk every game in red ranks.
I remember when people used to do nothing but
"Wow, now the survivors have had this nerfed, I wonder what they'll do next", turns out both sides do the exact same thing, DS being nerfed & OoO being changed, it's onto Dead Hard threads every other day now.
The perk is fine, leave it be.
I've literally watched Dead hard work just fine against the literal best nurse players in the world. It's not a skill vs skill situation.
You can some what bait a hit if your first blink is spot on, but against most people you basically just have to hit people what is virtually 3 times since they press it at the start of the animation, and lunging becomes not an option at all until exhaustion.
I am okay with it balance wise because a god nurse has so little counterplay that honestly I am okay with giving survivors whatever they can use; but the problem is it's dummy effective against all nurse players.
mettle of man didn't require protection hits originally. It was literally just a third health state. Dead hard is having the same effect, you're going to go down, tap E for free distance and now you don't.
Sure you don't get the speed boost like Mom, but you can use this every chase and theres no aura downside.
Who said it's the same people?
I've never been too bothered by DS. Sure it can be annoying when it's abused but I can play around DS for the most part. No matter which killer I pick, the majority of them have their power cucked by Dead Hard.
I think it should just be reworked to only give distance if a hit was detected while it was activated. That would cancel the use of it purely for distance and make it only worthwhile when trying to dodge an incoming strike. I like the idea of DH, and I definitely want to keep the ability to skillfully dodge an attack, but using it purely for distance to extend a loop is pretty poopy.
they should really fix DH. This exhaustion on the ground thing is not nice... This perk used to be awesome, until you re exhausted on the ground...
Why does it need to be something possible to do in real life? This is a game based on fiction.
and... so what if you miss a couple of attacks due to a perk? It's really not the end of the world, and most likely not the end of the match either.
would ya'll be fine if it was something u had to earn ingame? like there are perks u have to earn to be able to use them, maybe if u save somebody or heal somebody u get a token for your dead hard?
because i do agree its very good perk for survivors which is bascially given for free. its a boring perk to face.
Considering how easy it is to link some of the safe tiles together, a DH for distance especially early game can be extremely powerful. It also doesn't help if you need momentum as a low-mid tier killer and they keep using DH for distance to delay any kind of pressure. Saying "you just miss a couple of attacks" is like saying "its only a 5 second stun" for DS, it completely misses the point and underestimates the perk.
There is a limit to what all abilities you can provide a survivor with in a horror game. Dead hard makes survivors look like having superhuman abilities so it looks very weird and bad to me. Dbd resembles real life horror so it's natural people will compare it to it. How can a survivor suddenly leap a few feet in air that too in a blink of an eye and suffer no slowdown after it? Things like these ruin some amount of horror in the game for me. It makes the survivor feel invulnerable.
On this rare occasion I agree with Sluzzy dead hard doesn't actually work most of the time it'll show me dead hard but I won't move and I don't gain any invulnerability so I'm on the ground exhausted with pretty much a wasted perk slot until I'm booked or the exhaustion wears off.
Dead Hard is used in a variety of ways who cares if I use it to get to the pallet I'm using a exhaustion perk like the devs intended but also avoiding a hit is good too because they coded it that way if you don't like it tough I don't like a lot of things but I put up with it.
Says about entitled survivor mains bit clearly sits here crying about a perk we use to gain distance on you meanwhile rancor allows you to Insta kill me for being your obsession hooked or not, bloodlust allows you to catch up to me quickly with no skill involved or how about we discuss the big elephant in the room stridor if I'm running iron will why should your perk counteract mine if I'm playing stealthy stridor ruins that completely because you can suddenly hear me despite the fact I should be 100% muffled at top tier.
Except DH is meta and one of the most used perks by rank 1 & 2 survivors, barely anybody takes Rancor because it's so easy to play around. Bloodlust exists due to bad map design, you know this. It's a bandaid the devs had to add in. Lastly yeah you can say stridor trumps iron will, but then botany trumps sloppy butcher. Head on and DS now trump enduring since it doesn't work with them anymore. There are lots of perks that outdo others. Heck hangmans trick doesnt even bring back hooks against sabo anymore, it just shows you that someone is screwing you over
What exhaustion perk ISNT used for distance???
And out of all of them DH arguably gives the least distance. I'd get further with the Head On stun...
smh at some of ya'll. Killer is easier now than its ever been and some of you are still complaining? Easy to see who is new to the game and who was playing back in 2016/2017 by some of these comments...
Except people do bring rancor same as people do bring dead hard it also bloodlust was added for infinite last time I checked they're no longer a thing but the second bloodlust got removed killers were up in arms crying that they still can't catch a survivor. Also Hangmans trick does respawn hooks just not instantly it knocks a large chunk of time off also of you're running that perk and still head over to the hook you knew was being broken it's on you when the survivor wiggles free.
Killers cry about everything.
Tell me about it I'd have a field day posting the things I want removed from killers or nerfed it just feels constant and I don't think the devs help when they give in to their whims if they just turned around and told them it was done this way because said reason no one could argue but no they're too busy trying to get killers to play which isn't happening because it's the most unfun role going not because of gen rush or SWF but because they have one objective give them other tasks and the game would balance out evenly.
Name the perks.
give in to their whims? lmao every killer the survivors wanted nerfed has been or will be nerfed.
If killers had their way half the maps in the game would be reworked to a much higher standard.
And if survivors had their way killers wouldn't be able to camp,tunnel mass slug and Freddy would be nerfed right back to where he should be also the Game map seems pretty killer sided now lots of dead ends not a lot of vaults BL is near enough a must have as well for this map. But yea keep saying how killers are ignored.
They shouldn't camp or tunnel.
And yet here we are having the same conversation over and over again while devs focus on nerfing the things that are countering them and to that I say great job devs you really know how to show your player base what is going to be punished and what isn't
Dead Hard is fine. I don't really use it. Stop complaining about it. It isn't that good to begin with. Thanks and have a good day.
I don't know why they thought a third health state as a perk was a good idea.
Okay, but what is DH's competition? Distortion? Off the record? Poised? Technician? Visionary?
When something is almost always on the table, it doesn't necessarily mean that that is overpowered. It can also mean that other perks are just not viable.
If killers had their way, all the current meta perks for survivors would be nerfed to the ground, since every time you enter the forums, all you see is threads whining about one or another, and that would leave the survivors with a lot of mostly useless perks that aren't used because the devs won't give them attention at all until at least 5 years have passed.
On another hand, certain killers that are still unhealthy for the game have been like this for several months (even years), so I don't know about you, but you've got a lot of time with them, if they're ever gonna get nerfed to begin with.
And here we are with another dead hard thread instead of the important stuff.
I'm seriously confused where all this DH hate comes from. I don't think it's significantly better than other exhaustion perks. Of course you can more freely choose when to use it, but its duration is a lot shorter and it works only when injured.
Saying it requires no skill is just not true (not that perks should require skill). It's safe to say that I have no skill with DH. I can't even remember when was the last time it actually helped me any longer than for about 3 seconds. That's why I rarely use it, I can't get much value out of it. If it didn't require any skill, it should have saved me most of the time.
When I play killer, most of the time Dead Hard can't save other survivors either. Usually there are no windows/pallets nearby so their DH in the open doesn't do much.
I watch a lot of red rank killer streams and yes, I see tons of DH in those videos. Funny thing is that majority of those DHs doesn't even help, streamers still complain how annoying DH is, and yet they 4k most of the time. Just where are those players who can prolong the chase 60 just by bringing a perk.
When a spear hit a survivor using dead hard, it stick to his chest and drop off inmediatly and the killer has to reload now. Though DH counters huntress much more cz gunner can always fake his shoot with nearly no penalty. I droped to rank 4 after I run out of exhaustion addons on huntress. DH is very powerful when good survivors are using it
Nearly all sweaty rank 1 survivors runs DH, if u don't think DH is the best exhaustion perk then I think u r not good enough.