Killers, STOP Expecting a 4K!
For this game to be "balanced" most killer mains are asking to be able to kill 4 survivors most matches...
Even if you get 4 kills HALF of your matches and 2 kills your other matches, that averages out to 3 kills per match. That means 3 out of every 4 survivors won't make it!!!
In what world is that "balanced"?
In solo q, I don't know if our squad makes it out alive even 10% of the time. And in a full squad we maybe make it out 20% of the time.
When you get a killer with certain perks and add-ons, like Freddy, Spirit, even the Hag with her traps, these killers can be virtually impossible to beat.
Then we have killer mains on here whining all day because they are getting t-bagged...
If you aren't getting 2 to 4 kills every match (meaning the game is balanced towards killer) then you absolutely suck.
Of course we should nerf DS, and if we keep the game in the state it's in, n I'm okay, but please, if you are going to nerf anything survivor, nerf the traps of the Hag, nerf Freddy or the Spirit.
Yes we have a problem with q times. That's the only reason why they cater so much to killers. They have to or the game won't survive so I'm okay with it. But killers: a successful match isn't 4k or bust, and again, if you aren't getting 2k or more in most matches, you suck, even my friend who's new to the game can play underpowered killers and get 2 kills each match
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You've got some BALLS posting that in this circle jerking forum. I respect you for that, and agree with everything you just said.
Bet the op says noed is one of them.
Nine times out of ten they don't...... Even a half brain dead monkey can kill bad survivors. Otz, Dowsey, Scott etc. All these guys prove how GOOD killers can be. As a killer, if you play well you are almost GUARANTEED to win. BTW a "win" is at LEAST 2 kills. Getting a 4k EVERY SINGLE GAME is absurd. There isn't a survivor who goes into EVERY game and escapes through the gate. ESPECIALLY with the stupid ass end game collapse (The dumbest thing added to the game for solo Q survivors.) As a solo survivor in red ranks you survive MAYBE 2 out of 10 times and that's usually when the killer if ######### around or playing a meme build. This game is BY FAR balanced towards the killer. Again to be capable of killing a 4 man SWF, (which happens SOOOOO OFTEN) is CRAZY that anyone complains in favor of killer.
Sad thing is I'M A KILLER MAIN!!!!! I have at LEAST 5k hours in game and 3k on killer. As this game gets more and more patches i play LESS and LESS survivor because it's damn near IMPOSSIBLE. Killer is SOOOO much less rage inducing it's the only side i can comfortably play without wanting to ram my controller through my face. I have been playing since release on console and have been red rank since. I am seriously astounded with the killer complaints.
I don't know about Dowsey, but both Scott and Otz regularly point out that they get beaten by predropping pallets and slammed gens.
I can smell the salt a mile away. Horror games are built off the low chances of survival. Dbd is a horror game, not generator repair simulator
Both sides are not entitled to escape or a 4k.
Yes, I do. Most of the time, my team completed 4 gens before the 4th hook.
@BeardedScrub you should play killer at red rank, with a not so skilled killer..
If even one survivor makes it alive its a high chance that he will give you crap after the game finishes..
So.. if I play with you I will make your game a living hell cause I'm sick of all those salty survivors ( you would be surprise how many are out there) and I just want to kill them all.. it's unlucky if you are not one of them, cause I will play you as if you were.
I agree with the general premise, killers definitely shouldn't always expect 4ks.
But this post reeks of survivor main. Those killers you mentioned are difficult to beat but definitely not impossible.
You're seriously only getting 20 percent escape percentage with a swf? How, are you playing with literal children? I play with noobs frequently and I'm not the best survivor either and we escape far more than that, at least half the games.
The game is undeniably balanced towards survivors in a swf on comms. Though about solo queue, sure I understand the complaint. The fact you and your squad make it out so little says way more about all your skill than balance.
Also yeah of course your friend who has never played killer can hop on a get kills, he's presumably a rank 20 and facing people who have no idea what they're doing.
Queue times are so long for survivor and for reason, because it's easier and way less stressful than killer.
@BeardedScrub the game leans towards killer??
You really need to "git gud"
2 kills = a killer win. The devs themselves have said this themselves.
The problem is how the game scores you thats a loss.
Except the Emblem system wants us to be as close as possible to 4k to rank up.
Also, the game work on the basis that survivors are stronger early and get weaker as they get killed. So saying '' you should expect a 2k most game'' is saying we should balance the game around the fact Survivors will always start at their best, But killer shouldn't be able to reach their best (3k) unless something goes wrongs.
going by the 2k rules, you just promoting a game where the normal state of a thing is that killer need to go full sweaty hard mode to get that first kill so they can start to relax a bit VS survivor who will rarely be on a point where half their teams are dead and they need to go sweaty mode to get the missing gens done. It just is way more fun to win as the two last survivors than it is to win, but you only killed half the survivors.
We already got the hatch that acts as a free key for the last survivors. Just imagine if the game went ''oh all 5 gens are complete, here base kit old green mori+ base kit NoeD so you can get a free kill if you manage to down someone''
are you know what suck ?, your Tread suck. Killer can play how they want and not how other ppls want. Is there a survivorrulebook ? NO...
Also DBD is a 4 vs 1 and balanced NEVER happend. A Killer play Killer and not Butler for survivors. It is what it is
No killer with half of a brain expects to 4k every match. It's not the fact of wanting to 4k every game it's having the tools to be able to not every killer has that, unless the Survivors are bad, this "oh stop expecting 4ks every game" is a dumb strawman made up by Survivor mains. Once again it's having the ability if you're good enough to be able to, I mean you can outplay Survivors at every loop, however, if they're efficient on gens there's nothing you can do and I don't think that's fair, no matter how much people say "just pressure gens" it doesn't take away the fact that if Survivors are efficient there's not much you can do, no matter how much you pressure, I mean ruin&undying helps a lot but efficient Survivors will cleanse that and then you've got 2 perks for the rest of the game with default gen regression which, well let's face it you might aswell not even bother wasting time kicking.
I play killer and survivor evenly, and from my experience, the issue has a lot to do with matchmaking. As a mid-rank killer (Green ranks currently), I am frequently put up against all Red Rank teams that run circles around me. The game actually feels balanced when I'm paired against survivors of similar rank, and I typically do get a couple kills in those scenarios. But I have way more chance of getting matched against a Rank 1 Survivor, and that shouldn't be possible if matchmaking were balanced. There's also vast chasm of difference between playing against SWF and 4 solo survivors, and that inherently makes the game unbalanced.
Certain killers, like Freddy and Spirit, should get a nerf, but in general I think survivors need a bit more to do. Add a little complexity to their objectives just to make the early game slow down a bit, so killers have a chance to find people before gens start popping left and right. And things like the proposed change to Object are great, because that perk currently overwhelmingly benefits SWF, and they don't need the help. If the devs can find more ways to close the gap between SWF and solo play, that would help a lot.
Most killers I've seen don't "expect" 4ks, they just expect a game where they feel like they're playing against survivors they have a shot against. As a survivor, I feel confident that I have a good chance of surviving, even in solo queue, and have easily climbed to low ranks. Playing killer can be very demoralizing by comparison.
Lmao acting like most killers want always 4ks. Such an over exaggeration. It's the same amount of survivors who want killers to have to deal with god loops and god pallets.
Both sides have morons stop acting like one side is ruining the game more then the other.
Call this rant long coming, but this community is toxic towards killers. Every time I see something from these forums in my news feed it's someone encouraging killer nerfs and or survivor buffs in one way or another.
You guys seem to have established a false consensus that killers are wildly overpowered and I respectfully disagree.
It's my opinion that killer is by far the more frustrating experience in this game. I say this as someone who mains survivor and probably has more to gain from said consensus, but I just don't like it.
That's just my two cents on something that is just a game. I have played for a couple of years now though, got a little experience under my belt and imo killers are getting the short straw right now.
I think people forget the fact that killers are... you know killers. You as a survivor should not expect to win alot you are not supposed to survive, killers are supposed to be getting 4k most of the time
Agreed
But the game could work vice versa, survivors should stop expectinh to escape, you argument is invalid, try again
Thank you for a fair and reasonable post. I agree with you!
We are all human. There should be an even amount of talent between killer and survivor. So the outcomes should be fairly even if you look at stats
I agree with you!! That's my main point, let's be even on both sides. The survivors are op, let's nerf them to the ground, it's getting old, especially if we ignore the other killer stuff you mentioned
There should be an even amount of talent between killer and survivor? Based on what?
We've already established the existence of boosted Survivors. There's no such thing as a boosted Killer.
Na, imma do what killers are supposed to do and kill. Then imma use those blood points I earned to get more add-ons and perks and have fun while doing it.
Killer is harder and attract better gamers than survivor. But there has to be a limit to how much survivor sided the game is, or there will be problems getting enough killers to play.
That said solo survivor can be pretty hard since even if I'm really good at the game, my teammates are almost always worse. Most red rank survivors are still worse players than green rank killers.
Ok this post kinda seems like telling survivors to not expect to escape.
I mean, there should be games where even if you try your absolute best, you shouldnt be able to get a 3k. Just as there are survivor games where even if you try your absolute best, there wont be a 3 escape. That simply should be part of the game.
As for higher ranks leaning towards survivors, no, definitely not. The game doesnt start leaning towards survivors unless you play on tournament levels or against a team of survivors that simply have much more gameknowledge than you or as a team have equal gameknowledge as you.
Fundamentally, the game is survivor sided. Practically, it's killer sided. All the statistics show that killers win in the vast majority of games. All RED RANK killers have an average kill rate of over 60%, and that being the low end(excluding Nurse, since Nurse has the hardest learning curve, making her drag down the kill rate). The average killrate(again, excluding Nurse) along all killers is 70%. That means the average killrate per game is essentially a 3k. If the game was practically survivor sided, the average escape rate would lean towards 3 escapes. Yet it does not. The average escape rate barely exceeds 1 and that is thanks to the hatch. Remove the hatch, and that average escape rate will drop below 1.
Yet there are killers still demanding the hatch to be gone, without realizing what that should mean to the game in general. For the hatch to be removed, survivors need higher natural escape rates against all killers.
Only at a tournament level is the game survivor sided, and even then it requires comms to actually be survivor sided.
This is exactly why people say that killer want 4k everytime.
Even if people don't say it outright. Asking for the hatch to be gone, or that freddy is fine and every killer should be as strong as freddy when there's already a 70% average killrate. Is just another way of saying the killers want 4k every game.
That's not reasonable.
Completely false.
Even if all Survivors are Solo, if they actually understand the game, they can and will win most of their games.
A 60% Kill Rate is still a 2K. Most 2K's will cause the Killer to de-pip or maybe Brutal.
The bigger issue is that those stats (other than the pick rates) are totally unusable. Way too many variables to account for: what ranks were the Survivors? How many hooks did the Killer get? What map did they get? How was the RNG? ect ect.
Just because most Survivors in Red Ranks are boosted doesn't mean that actual Red Ranked Survivors aren't capable of beating the ######### out of Killers.
Nope, 4 solo survivors on average do not stand a change against an average killer. If the killer actually understands the game and plays against 4 solo survivors who actually understand the game, the game is killer sided. Information shared between survivors is what makes survivors stronger. For survivors to perform equally to an SWF, they have to understand exactly who is doing what. 2 people running towards 1 unhook is wasted time already, let alone 2 solo survivors thinking they are the only one going for the unhook.
As for 60%, that means at least a 2k. And no, 2k's do not depip the killer unless the killer has been wasting his time on 1 survivor.
"Just because most Survivors in Red Ranks are boosted doesn't mean that actual Red Ranked Survivors aren't capable of beating the [BAD WORD] out of Killers."
Yes, but those killers that get beaten the crap out of themselves are boosted killers themselves. Boosting goes 2 ways. Its extremely easy as a killer to reach red ranks, the average red rank survivor earns their red rank spot more than the average red rank killer, as double pipping as survivor post rank 9 is getting harder with each game, and depipping because you're killed early on is quite common, while killers have quite a constant pip gain post rank 9.
So if you get your ass whooped by 4 solo survivors, perhaps you're the boosted one.
I think you are biased.
4 Solo Survivors can absolutely meme on a Killer if they understand how the game works. SWF makes it easier, but it isn't impossible to do Solo.
Do you not know how the Devout Emblem works? A 2K usually means the Killer got destroyed in the match and got two lucky kills in the Endgame. It almost never means two Survivors barely escaped, it usually means that the Killer barely got two kills.
It is much more difficult to reach Red Ranks as Killer. Honestly, this entire paragraph kinda shows the bias I mentioned earlier. It is NOT hard to pip as a Solo Survivor. I am an awful Survivor and I am consistently at Rank 1, when I should really be at Rank 9-ish. Do a gen with a friend, rescue and heal someone, don't go down instantly in a chase. That's it. A gross simplification, but that's all you really need to do in order to pip. Plus, SWF makes that exceedingly easy to do. I play on Console, where there are way more SWF groups, but it still exists on PC as well.
When playing Killer, you have very little to boost you. You need to hook Survivors 9 times, pressure gens, chase Survivors (win those chases) and hit Survivors.
Also, it is literally HARDER to pip at Red Ranks with Killer. You need one extra point in order to pip.
Doubtful, I've been stuck at Rank 1 for 2 years now. I'd like a consistent challenge as Survivor.
So I just want to begin this by asking 2 questions
1. Do you play killer?
2. Do you play in high rank? (5-1)
With the issue of getting a 4k I think it's just a general misconception of what a killers goal in a match is to "win" aka a ruthless or merciless killer score in a match ( this is because Brutal killer is a draw in high ranks and thats what I'm basing this off of). For a killer their objective is to get as many points as they can to achieve this goal of gaining pips to either further their rank or too gain blood points to spend if already max rank, but that doesn't change that people don't play the game to draw all the time or to even "barly" win the match and gain little to no progress, this includes both survivors or killers.
Dead by daylight is a competitive game in my opinion since it's a team of 4 vs a team of 1, although it has no "Ranked" mode because the game is always locked into a ranked mode already. As such you shouldn't expect people to always be laid back and casually playing matches since people are going to see the ranking system and want to climb to the top and this is the majority of high rank players having this mind set to get or keep their rank 1 status as well.
So with all that in mind let's get back to the issue at hand, is a killer getting a 4k everygame they play balanced?, my answer to this is yes BUT this doesn't mean that the killer deserves no matter what to get 4k's everygame. If a person is skilled enough then there shouldn't be anything wrong with them gaining a score worthy of the skill and effort they put in, however if they are barely even put effort or are just straight bad then they don't deserve that score at all. The game shouldn't be balanced towards either side always having a win no matter the effort or skill difference between the 2, if someone played better then they get the better score it's as simple as that, a game should never be balanced to cater to either side of that match but dead by daylight has its share of mechanics doing so for both sides that I personally dislike and think should be removed. I don't think there is anything else I missed in the context of the first question so let's move on.
Broken killers: Hag, Spirit, and Freddy are all very strong killers and can easily achieve score that may be un reachable with certain killers or even having the ability to level the playing field of a match vs strong survivors with little effort put in. With all that I still don't think that the killers are "broken" in any sense but more of difficult to outplayed or counter, and of course throwing in perks to the situation like spirit with stridor is a whole new situation but still is something that survivors can "counter" with perks like iron will which is a perk that carries a high pick rate. In general my point is that the killers aren't "broken" just more difficult to play against than other killers, and as for Hag traps just grab a flash light and avoid grass as much as possible. But these killers are no where near "virtually" impossible to beat.
As for DS my only issue with it is that it gets abused and give survivors the ability to play recklessly and get away with it and punishing the killer for doing anything to retaliate, but for its intended use against tunneling I have no issues.
I dont think the game caters to killers or survivors very much anymore but I do think the game has a very slight survivor bias in some areas of its design whether new or old. I'd expect you to understand these things if you play killer in high rank and im not against any arguments against what I said I just ask you don't throw personal feeling and bias as your argument cause then il just disregard it. As for your friend that's new to the game it isn't surprising since the game is in my opinion killer sided and survivors just starting out don't really know how to play the game but this issue or balance switches sides once you hit ranks (8-1) since survivors now know how to draw out chases, have access to good perks, and know how to abuse the mechanics against the killers. Again that was opinion but it is based off of what I've experienced playing both sides of that game.
Hpw will one feel like a merciless, bloodthirsty killer if they dont go for 4ks. In my mind I dont see a 8ft tall battle hardened ogre or Interdemensional monster that wants nothing more than to kill losing to 4 strangers who may or may not be clever or hardy
Waddling like a penguin omg! 🤣🤣🤣
In a 4 vs 1 game the 1 needs to be way stronger than the 4 meaning that someone with slightly lesser skill should still be able to have a chance. If there equal or better than they should always win. No killer expects 4 k to be the balance but my experience is as killer I average close to 3 depends on killer. As a survivor I survive 70 percent of the time as a solo queue on average at least 2 get out. Now as survivor the vast majority of our deaths are during end game. To me as a survivor it should feel like a accomplishment to survive as my perspective is I'm not supposed to and maybe that's were the problem is we all want the game to be something it's not. But no the game is incredibly survivor bias if you don't see that your just a bad player I could explain why but survivor and killer mains only want to hear there point. Problem is for every killer there is 4 survivors crying the game designer will always cater to majority.
I just had to leave a late comment, simply to say that Otz himself gave the same exact speech I gave.
Otz specifically says that 2k is balance. And that killers should stop feeling entitled and thinking they should get a 4k. That's ALL I WAS SAYING! He even explains that killers often want their cake and want to eat it too!
https://youtu.be/ZwcyaTk067A
but playing killer is so s t r e s s f u l ( :) ) they deserve their 4ks for slugging
If I slug and kill 4 people I deserved the 4K.
If I tunnel and kill 4 people I deserve the 4K.
If you gen rush and get out you deserve the 4 escape.
It is quite simple.
By camping hook with NOED Bubba u can always get 2 kills 2 escape, except survivors ######### about it says it's toxic
It's not that killers "expect a 4k". It's that killers expect that if they didn't get a 4k, they were outplayed.
You didn't outplay me by Dead Harding for distance to a god window or strong pallet. You didn't outplay me by running Unbreakable after you played like trash and got knocked down. You didn't outplay me by using an exhaustion perks to extend chases, artificially, with no skill of your own, to waste my time. You didn't outplay me by only escaping because you had DS at 59 seconds, while you were fully healed and working on a generator.
I should mention - killers have their crutches too. No doubt about that - but the difference between survivor and killer crutches is, every single survivor crutch with the exception of like..head on, is a get out of jail free card. They didn't have to earn it. In many cases, it was given to them as a reward for failure (such as DS, Unbreakable, or Dead Hard). Every single killer "crutch" has to be earned in some way, except for NOED.
Pop? Requires a hook to activate. Ruin? Requires the killer to actually pressure generators.
i dont agree why favor killer ? if you think you should always 4 k then you dont understand the game at all and also why favor Survivor ?
The answer is balance the game around 50/50 without swf (swf should separated)
Nobody is favoring killer. The game is survivor sided. It has been since the beginning; but what they are saying is survivor should be harder than it is. I don't think you get to tell someone they don't understand the game when you clearly don't either.
Disagree. There is plenty of evidence of the game being incredibly Survivor-sided the higher MMR you get to.
There are two Killers that can win against those good Survivor squads, those being Spirit and Nurse.
Every other Killer will be VERY hard-pressed to compete, let alone win.
Here's why:
Those groups understand the game. They know how to loop and will probably average a 60+ second chase. Couple that with the time it takes the Killer to find someone, and the time it takes them to hook them, and it's fairly likely that three gens are done already. The Killer has completed 1/12 of his Objective and the Survivors completed 3/5 of theirs in the same amount of time. Mathematically, even if the other Survivors are BAD and only get 30 second chases, Killer still loses. The only reason Killer's would win in that scenario is because of Survivor mistakes. If you take a Killer like Nurse or Spirit, they have enough tools and fast enough chases that they can compete with those teams.
Hopefully, this whole argument will be made irrelevant in the coming months with MMR, and the Devs can start balancing the game around fun in high ranks. because if a SWF wants to slam gens, there really isn't much you can do.
you want hag to be nerfed?
she's barely played. she takes quite a bit of skill. honestly get good, learn her counters.
"they cater so much to killers"
umm what. this game was survivor sided for most of it's life. remember instablinds? wanna talk about that? wanna talk about the old infinites on macmillan/autohaven? the current haddonfield and game map? (aka pallet city)
I never expect anything. I do however play for a 4k every match because that's how you improve. I'm not upset if I don't 4k. But I do play for it every match
Survivor Sided ? maybe you dont play solo Q , just try it and tell me if its survivor sided , in fact for swf yes it's survivor sided , you did not understood what i ve said
At this point, i´m not even expecting 4 hooks before the gates are powered.
I've been playing DBD for nearly 6k hours. I've played more solo queue than you've probably slept in your lifetime.