I Did Bones. You Need A New Excuse.
This is just a reminder that yes, there are indeed survivors who do bones in order to try and counter NoED. These players also generally don't gen-rush.
When these players come here and say that NoED is indeed a terrible perk and needs changing, they're right. They do not need to "git gud", they do not need to hear "Just do bones." and they do NOT need to hear a garbage spiel about how easy the perk is to counter, the killer is "oNlY pLaYiNg WiTh 3 PeRkS!" or the points of DS/BT/DH/UB being perks and can be stacked.
To now make the "Do bones" argument null and void, I will now highlight every way that this argument is totally invalid:
- Survivor perks, such as Decisive Strike and Unbreakable are used with the hope that they are NEVER ACTIVATED. Well, for a lot of their users anyway. People can claim this as being perks down, much like the arguments for NoED.
- The so-called Survivor equivelant, Adrenaline, is only a small and temporary boost while NoED is permanent if activated. Yes, the health state is temporary, but there are several killers that have base-kit instant downs so this really shouldn't be THAT big of an issue.
- NoED does not discriminate between those who have done totems and those who do not. This leads to several cases like mine where I am commonly doing 3-4 dull totems MYSELF and getting killed after only one hit and hook. I am being punished for others failing, not my own failure. I know that Survivor is technically a team game, but there is a point where the individual should not be punished for the failures of the team.
- It creates bad habits. Rather than actually adapting to applying pressure through various means, or learning how to improve in chases, NoED is used as a safety net in order to get kills that one would not normally be able to achieve, making them think that they are more skilled than they actually are. Rather than getting better at their role, they are telling others to do way more work because they refuse to adapt.
- Counters to a majority of Survivor perks are merely a change in mindset or playstyle, such as trading hooks to apply pressure and avoid Decisive Strike AND Borrowed Time. NoED requires survivors to go out of their way in order to stop one of your perks.
- The "counters" are also indirect and limited, also chewing up valuable perk slots for other perks to counter some of the more unsavoury tactics that killers use and are not perk dependent.
Main point here is that yes, I do the dull totems. They are more bloodpoints and cancel the perk. I AM NORMALLY THE ONE TO GET HIT BY IT. Most of these games, it is also the first hook that I will be placed on and will also ultimately kill me.
There are also many issues that I have with NoED on a fundamental level as a perk, especially with it's activation for both general activation and notification of it's activity. Every other Hex perk requires ONE totem to be destroyed, where as NoED can have up to 5 required, before endgame.
All exposure effects outside of NoED and Devour Hope also give instant notification. Devour Hope also has a lengthy list of requirements to activate outside of "be loosing" in order to achieve the same effect. Devour Hope is also a TEACHABLE perk, one that should be more powerful than base-perks as you have to do a lot more work for them to become available.
So, fellow killers, while you lot think up of an actual excuse for NoED being the way it is, I'll be off actually doing the damn bones whenever I decide to indulge in a little bit of Survivor while I try to progress my Archives. In the meantime, whenever any of you argue about Decisive Strike, Borrowed Time, Unbreakable just remember this advice, since it's ok for YOU to give it: Just don't tunnel, camp or slug. Never mind that the survivor ran at you or started working on that generator or unhooking that other survivor in your face. Kinda hypocritical, isn't it? That's how I feel every time I hear the phrase "just do bones".
I did them, so now what?
Comments
I just wanna say that without the existence of NOED, Survivors would never cleanse dull totems again. Gens are done extremely fast nowadays, and they'd be done even faster if NOED was not a possible threat. It is the only thing keeping dull totems as a "secondary objective."
Counter for totems would be the only thing that Solo Q needs. SWFs have no excuse.
You're right, and that's fine. But we need to just STOP saying "just do bones" whenever someone has a legitimate complaint about the perk because some of us ARE doing bones.
What I would tell you in this regard is, that you need to learn the game. That applies to every new killer, to every new perk and to every new map. There are map offerings, perks and other tools you can use to get used to any of the new things. Perks to see windows and pallets, you need to play the maps to learn the loops, you need to play the killer to learn the power, you need to maybe learn timing on new perks or whatever.
So you need to learn new totem spots by just visiting the map often enough and check where they are. All that comes either by time or you can force it by running Hunch/maps and burn the map offering. You see the auras, you go check/cleanse and memorize. Eventually you will know where they are. As I said before, I only have problems with Lerys, as unlit totems don't give you any cue and some of the spots you can only see when standing on a specific spots. That is one map of 30+
Btw the way I play against NOED is with Hunch. Just as a rough example to see if this is a scenario that you really really really doubt to work. For me it works pretty fine: I try to keep a 1 totem per gen ratio, so I will always do one of a probably hard to find totem I just see after a completed gen. Sometimes I ignore easy totems like "this one is in shack" or "this one is on harvester" as they are easy to memorize and find later. Also I go for gens over totems if the gens are critical or close to finish, or if the killer applies too much pressure so gen focus is required. This normally leads to 1-2 totems left (at max, if not all are cleansed) which I know where they are. So I won't waste much time to find a probable NOED. Sometimes I even am close to left totems so I check first if it is lit up now.
This leads to many games where I have control over NOED. Maybe a handful of games that are lost and could have been won because of seconds of gen time, that were lost on totems, but if these games actually contain a NOED, then it doesn't make a difference because the killer already apparently stomped the team with 3 perks, so ignoring totems and running into NOED on a decent killer would also cause a loss. But overall my experience is, that I have a working counter on NOED. I see more games where I counter NOED than games where we lose against no NOED caused by wasted totem time or games where NOED counter failed.
And when I don't use Hunch or maps and I'm on one of the 30 maps where I'm familiar with totem spots, then I take slight extra paths to check the typical totem spots I get close to. Memorize or cleanse them. I will not see all totems, but probably 3-4 of them, cleanse some of them, have maybe one or two mates doing the same or running Inner Strength, forcing them to cleanse some totems. That way there is no 100% guarantee to know all spots when NOED triggers, but a decent chance to know where it might be when it triggers. Giving me maybe a 50:50 chance to easily counter it without wasting too much time, just by experience.
Juse a reminder that this is about the EXCUSE "just do bones" and not about NoED as a perk.
My points against NoED are purely to show how flawed the statement is.
I know. I gave you already a new "excuse" by saying "do the critical bones and memorize the rest and cleansed spots you pass by".
My repsonse to him was about that he said, "doing bones is not working or noone can expect that from someone" and I said, that this is a thing you need to learn, then it will not be a problem.
Btw "Do bones" is more like a meme, not an allmighty recipe with guaranteed success, and addressing people that expect to not get hit by NOED after genrushing. As stated before, from survivor side this is a team game, and if the team is performing bad, then there will be bad results. You don't know who you get. I often had teams already where NOED was countered and I only found 3 totems with my Hunch build. Random teams can work out in both directions.
Also, the longer paragraph is an explanation of how I "do bones"
There are just too many responses discussing DS, how NoED is "fine" and all that to the point where it's hard to remember who's said what.
That and I'm almost at the point of getting this thread closed since I've seen all of about 5 comments ACTUALLY debating me. This whole thing has almost been diluted into another "he said, she said" about the perks which is the exact opposite of what this thread is about.
there should be 5 candies above the enter area of the basement each lit candies how many totems are left.
I hope then that you got my point on that. "Do Bones" is not a solo q thing, it is still a team thing, like almost everything on survivor side. Or you have to do nothing else than this and let the rest of the team do gens and unhooks. If the team is bad, the result will be bad. Sad but true.
But that also counts to every other aspect. Like fighting against camping needs either team effort or everyone focussing on gens, if the team does both with half effort, the killer gets paid out. Getting people out of basements needs sometimes team effort (or against Hag for example requires team effort). If this is not working, the team slowly dies. If the team is neither working on gens nor on totems, the team slowly dies. If the team is working on gens but not on totems and you can't catch up with totems on time, the team quickly dies in endgame.
And I hope my third paragraph on the last post you quoted gave you a hint on how an alternative attempt might be. Still doesn't work of course if you know where the last totem is and you are the one to show the team "hey, got downed by NOED". But that just happens, like you get downed by an unexpected Spirit Fury, multiple Tier 3 Myers that got fed by other survivors while you barely saw the killer or like you have to eat Moris and get upset when you see it was a green one.
But I personally am happy with my bunch of Hunch games a day where I see that I countered a NOED, although it does not always work out.
I did see your point, and I do recognise that Detective's Hunch can help a lot. But I don't have it as I have never levelled up Tapp, and don't know where to slot it into a build. I've also tried Small Game, but it's audio queue is so VAGUE that I've spent too much time on a single use of it to not find anything anyway OR found totems I already suspected of existing.
Makes me a little reluctant to attempt using it.
No I'm complaining that it's not the easy "fix" everyone claims it to be. It's not affected by floors. So it can proc if there's a totem above or below you. Totally not confusing or misleading at all. I'm complaining that it is a garbage perk and THAT'S why no one ever runs it.
Let's see: I don't run DS, I don't run Dead Hard, I don't run OoO, I don't run BT often, I do run Adrenaline sometimes, I do run Iron will sometimes if I have it on whichev survivor I'm playing, I've only used Head On a number of times, I barely ever run Quick and Quiet, I run Sprint Burst a lot cuz I'm boosted without it and I can admit it, sometimes I run Empathy or Bond, I barely ever run Balanced Landing, I barely ever run Unbreakable, I barely ever run Spine Chill, I almost never run Self Care anymore unless there's a challenge for it, sometime I run Prove Thyself, Or Leader, never use Lithe, have barely EVER used Hope, don't really run Kindred as I don't have it on many Survs.
Do I pass your little test? I run maybe...2 "crutch perks" for surv. One which like NOED requires all gens to be done, and one that prevents me from hearing whoever I'm playing moaning all game. Oh and Sprint Burst. So maybe 1-3. Depending on what you consider crutch for Survivor and which survivor I'm playing. Which based off your bias I'm going to guess is: any perk a survivor runs.
I've never run the Small PP build. Or the Micro PP build.
Not that I really need to prove anything to you, dude who admits he runs NoeD because he can't pressure gens. Lol. Or because the bad mean survivors try to bodyblock for their teammates. Oh no. It's not like you can just M1 them or anything. Like if Noed procs you literally failed at one of your objectives as killer, preventing the survivors from completing gens.
Oh yes, Maps aren't rare, just run a perk to get one (maybe, if RNGesus is on your side), EZ. I used to run Plunder's a lot, you're not guaranteed a map every game, you're not even guaranteed anything GOOD every game. But nice try.
I wanna know out of all the hex perks how many time is NOED ran by itself? Those against it always talk as if it only appears in a vaccum but I want to know how many builds run it as a "back up" hex.
DS is an arguably much stronger and more unfair perk than NOED. Both are complained about considerably.
Do more bones.
They could make totems an actual meaningful second objective, that'd help. It's not survivors fault that devs only made like maybe 2-3 perks with anything at all to do with dull totems, and one "punishes" (not a super bad punishment) you for cleansing them (that Deathslinger perk). Like the only perk on Survivor side that makes you wanna cleanse dulls not just for the prevention of NOED is Inner Strength. If they put more things like Inner Strength in the game, survivors would feel more inclined to cleanse dulls. Or even if the gave like some small little reward or boost, temporary haste, a slight luck increase, a temporary boost to healing, idk something.
Like the devs put dulls in the game and seemingly forgot about them, except for being a receptacle for Hex perks. And that's a damn shame.
That or maybe they made it if dulls aren't cleansed then they become a mini hex of some sort (Mini Ruin, Mini Third Seal, Mini Devour Hope). Raising the incentive to cleanse them. Like they do the same thing as the big hexes but only for a short period or smth.
Where's the last one? I already did FOUR.
As for DS, I have two things to say about that:
1) that is NOT what this thread is about.
2) it's all in application and perspective. I can outright die from one NoED attack, where as I am not denied a kill outright if I'm hit by DS.
Your team let you down. Learn from it.
I did.
And if this was a one off, then I wouldn't be saying anything. I'm used to occasionally being let down by others and other things like dice, but there is an alarming consistency that occurs with NoED and the excuse "just do bones" that people give to deal with it.
If you want to quote me, do it right. I said "don't get hit FIRST".
Ofc there're situations were you can't avoid it. But most NOED "first hits" are just Survivors not expecting it.
I think you're missing the point that small game removes several strong killer perks, and you're complaining that they're not easier to remove.
Yes, based on you not memorizing totem spawns, not liking dlcs perks, and not running the meta, I would say you're a casual survivor. Unfortunately, the top survivor meta is incredibly strong right now, more nerfs to killer is a bad idea.
NOED ain't even that good of a perk. Usually only averages you one extra hook at the end of the game which is nothing. Your better off with rancor honestly xD
if one properly does bones, they shouldn't be hit with NOED
totally this which is why most survivors don't bother with totems. despite all the gnashing of teeth noed still isnt enough for people to do bones. this guy does 4/5 and still cant get one teammate to help. it just shows the Noed is not that big of a problem.
Do totems. No NOED. You're welcome. Nice novel though.
Somebody didn't read it apparently.
Point is that I DID them .
TEAM effort. I did my part, and then some.
Thanks for making sure that NOED gets tied to the most hidden totem. That time you spent doing the 4 easier ones instead of the actual objective definitely wasn't a waste or anything.
NoED Itself isn't a massive problem, but the design choices that go into it are.
The only change I want to rhe perk is to show Exposed instantly. That's it. Oh, and only activate after 5 generators are complete, but that's neither here nor there.
No. My problem now is the apologist attitude of "just do bones". It's like telling killers "just don't tunnel" because there ARE those who genuinely don't tunnel and get hit by DS.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zTuD8k3JvxQ
If it bothers you that bad run small game.
Lmfao someone actually but on the "Just slug" line.
That was literally a joke line to show how terrible the advice of "just do bones" is.
But yeah, this isn't about me being mad that NoED proc'd or it as a perk. This is literally about majority of killers saying "just do bones" as an excuse for the perk to remain unchanged because there are cases where they ARE doing said counter and still getting affected.
Not the point, but ok.
No, you didn´t do them, you only did some.
And really, you dont need smallgame or any perk for that. I know the totem spots, and i start the game by doing totems. i run around, check the usual spots, and count to 5. I do it in the beginning, because the killer has to check many gens still. Later, when he has to patrol fewer gens, its more important that all can work on them or unhook or whatever, while in the beginning he has to spread the pressure. Usually, one or two (or rarly even three) gens pop by the time i got the last totem. Even if i have to interfere, because i am near a hooked survivor and the others are doing gens, i can just go back to the part of the map where i stoped my search routine.
Yes, it takes pressure away from the killer on the off chance he has noed. But you can be flexibile. I come across a gen done more than 50%? I just help before i continue.
And yes, sometimes there is still a totem i didn´t find, and yes, even if i do it, sometimes noed becomes active, and sometimes it hits me. But thats the game.
Sure, it would be easier if i knew that other people where doing totems too. But usually, they don´t, unless its a hex totem.
Also i don´t complain about the bp gain for survivors, because i normaly close to the killer or even exceed him in bp. Those totems give you 1k bp for 16 seconds of work, while a gen gives you 1250 for 80 seconds. But if you do gens later, you usually do it with someone else, meaning you get cooppoints as well.
Sure, from the effectivity aka genrush perspective i waste a lot of time. But i dislike 5 minute games anyway.
Nah dude, that's not it. You gotta do bones.
Legit though, this thread is nonsense. Do bones IS the answer, and there's multiple perks AND items/addons to facilitate this. No other answer is correct.
I've seen this basement idea spring up a few places recently, and I definitely support it.
It would be great to have a totem counter on Small Game and/or Detective's Hunch, but the lit candles in the basement would be a useful & neat totem counter.
I can't be the only person who finds this to be mentally exhausting. I wish the developers would just nerf killers off their feet and introduce every single idea the survivors want so they'll shut up about our play styles and perks. Hell even remove add ons while we're at it. I'm so sick of the damn shaming. NOED's a tool like anything else.
If "Small Game" came with a built in totem aura reading facility "doing bones" would be a valid option. Having to bring an epic map is a bit of a waste and not a guarantee you'll find and cleanse them all before your map burns up.
Buff Small Game = bone problem solved.
Just make killer bots.
I can't believe the potatoes are STILL complaining about NOED all while defending DS/BT/DH/UB in the same post.
LOL
This is NOT about NoED. It's about the excuse "Do Bones".
I can guarantee you that I am more mentally exhausted repeating myself to people who can't comprehend something so basic that IT'S IN THE DAMN TITLE.
Doing totems is worst counter to noed only trash player would waste time on this #########
Couldn't have said it better
Token counter on small game please.
I don't actually understand, why does this thread exist if it isn't an Anti NoeD thread?
And honestly, don't do totem's, at least not at first. Leave the obvious totem's that are easy to get to. It's like you say in the very same post, most killers have insta-downs anyway, so really what difference does it make if that one down is made with a chainsaw or an M1? Might as well save your time in solos and go for points instead of totem's, because you already know you can't rely on coordination.
This. Is. Not. About. NoED. Activating.
Yes, I am mad at my team for not contributing. But that's not what the post is about.
I am deeply annoyed that the common response to genuine issues about NoED is "Just do bones" and I have had to say that about 50 times now.
So again. It is not NoED existing, activating or being a bad perk. It is that I am over hearing "do bones" because I did them.
I'm over it. I'm not taking anyone on this thread seriously any more because they aren't taking me seriously.
Well, the thing is that this isn't an anti-NoED thread as I have said my piece about that perk multiple times elsewhere.
I'm just so sick to death of hearing "just do bones" as a method of dealing with this garbage perk and would like people to come up with a new reason or line about it staying the way it is. I normally do totems anyway for BP.
That and 99/100 games it's in I am the one to get hit by it, even though I am literally the only one doing totems in order to prevent it and gain some blood points in the process.
I find it far more consistent if you do bones but keep one up (even if you are unsure as to the total completed). This way if NOED does pop because you didn't do all the bones, you know where 1 is and can easily find it (most likely having become NOED. This is just something I have had luck with playing solo.
Now, the thing is that I WOULD do this if I knew where all the totems were, or rather I'd just break it and be done with it, and the major problem of I am usually the one who gets done in BY NoED with no chance of recovery.
If I wasn't getting hit by NoED majority of the times it appears, then I could go "well I did totems......." but unfortunately I am doing the counter and getting punished for it, only to come here and see the "advice" that I am already doing.
Anyway, good to hear from you again. It's been a while.
You obviously didn't do the totems because NOED still activated. If you dedicate yourself to doing totems then you gotta DO THE TOTEMS and don't just stop after you did 3 of them. You can do 4 and find the location of the last one to quickly cleanse it once it becomes a hex but that's the only excuse when doing totems.
So I guess you only did 60-80% of the totems, which is not enough, therefore you failed at your task of "doing bones".