I Did Bones. You Need A New Excuse.
This is just a reminder that yes, there are indeed survivors who do bones in order to try and counter NoED. These players also generally don't gen-rush.
When these players come here and say that NoED is indeed a terrible perk and needs changing, they're right. They do not need to "git gud", they do not need to hear "Just do bones." and they do NOT need to hear a garbage spiel about how easy the perk is to counter, the killer is "oNlY pLaYiNg WiTh 3 PeRkS!" or the points of DS/BT/DH/UB being perks and can be stacked.
To now make the "Do bones" argument null and void, I will now highlight every way that this argument is totally invalid:
- Survivor perks, such as Decisive Strike and Unbreakable are used with the hope that they are NEVER ACTIVATED. Well, for a lot of their users anyway. People can claim this as being perks down, much like the arguments for NoED.
- The so-called Survivor equivelant, Adrenaline, is only a small and temporary boost while NoED is permanent if activated. Yes, the health state is temporary, but there are several killers that have base-kit instant downs so this really shouldn't be THAT big of an issue.
- NoED does not discriminate between those who have done totems and those who do not. This leads to several cases like mine where I am commonly doing 3-4 dull totems MYSELF and getting killed after only one hit and hook. I am being punished for others failing, not my own failure. I know that Survivor is technically a team game, but there is a point where the individual should not be punished for the failures of the team.
- It creates bad habits. Rather than actually adapting to applying pressure through various means, or learning how to improve in chases, NoED is used as a safety net in order to get kills that one would not normally be able to achieve, making them think that they are more skilled than they actually are. Rather than getting better at their role, they are telling others to do way more work because they refuse to adapt.
- Counters to a majority of Survivor perks are merely a change in mindset or playstyle, such as trading hooks to apply pressure and avoid Decisive Strike AND Borrowed Time. NoED requires survivors to go out of their way in order to stop one of your perks.
- The "counters" are also indirect and limited, also chewing up valuable perk slots for other perks to counter some of the more unsavoury tactics that killers use and are not perk dependent.
Main point here is that yes, I do the dull totems. They are more bloodpoints and cancel the perk. I AM NORMALLY THE ONE TO GET HIT BY IT. Most of these games, it is also the first hook that I will be placed on and will also ultimately kill me.
There are also many issues that I have with NoED on a fundamental level as a perk, especially with it's activation for both general activation and notification of it's activity. Every other Hex perk requires ONE totem to be destroyed, where as NoED can have up to 5 required, before endgame.
All exposure effects outside of NoED and Devour Hope also give instant notification. Devour Hope also has a lengthy list of requirements to activate outside of "be loosing" in order to achieve the same effect. Devour Hope is also a TEACHABLE perk, one that should be more powerful than base-perks as you have to do a lot more work for them to become available.
So, fellow killers, while you lot think up of an actual excuse for NoED being the way it is, I'll be off actually doing the damn bones whenever I decide to indulge in a little bit of Survivor while I try to progress my Archives. In the meantime, whenever any of you argue about Decisive Strike, Borrowed Time, Unbreakable just remember this advice, since it's ok for YOU to give it: Just don't tunnel, camp or slug. Never mind that the survivor ran at you or started working on that generator or unhooking that other survivor in your face. Kinda hypocritical, isn't it? That's how I feel every time I hear the phrase "just do bones".
I did them, so now what?
Comments
Crazy thought.
Actually humour me and COME UP WITH A DIFFERENT EXCUSE. NOT VARIATIONS OF THE SAME THING.
Exactly. So what's your excuse?
You claimed that you did the bones but you actually didn't to the bones. You lied to our faces for a desperate attempt to make a point.
You didn't do enough bones.
the do bones response is the same as the dont tunnel respinse both of them are there to piss off the other party
Now you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Cease.
I did not lie in the slightest to make a point, as I did do bones. Just because I can't always find all of them does not mean that I didn't do the counter.
Leave this thread. I'm over dealing with people like you.
Where is the 5th set then?
I already did the other four.
Also nice original comment. I haven't already had 50 of those.
Nice original post. Haven't seen 100 of these threads every day!
Here's the thing though. Mine IS original.
I'm not attacking the perk, I'm attacking the garbage "advice" given in response to those posts. It's people like you who are trying to change the conversation from what it was.
In that case you failed to understand the purpose of "doing bones".
The idea is to cleanse all 5 totems so no totem remains for NOED to activate. Maybe the wording of "doing bones" needs a bit more details to point out the obvious, it should be:
"Do ALL the bones!"
That's like saying "I did the gens and Adrenaline still didn't activate!" and then it turns out that you only did 4 gens. That was obviously not enough, just like your totems were not enough.
let me get this straight once more
1) Survs complited all 5 gens
2) you were hooked only once
3) you get +1 for game
4) all of it was made in solo q.
5) you are unsatisfied and you find game too hard , killer`s perks are too strong , solo q is terrible.
Right?
1) Yes.
2) After getting hit maybe twice or 3 times all game, the last one being when NoED activates.
3) Yep.
4) Indeed.
5) COULDN'T BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH! Come to the forums to see what people are talking about, see a random thread, someone complains about NoED with a myriad of people replying "just do bones", and I sit here thinking "well I do as many totems as physically possible, and killers lose their collective faecal matter when told 'just don't camp/tunnel/slug' so it's time to cease the double standard."
Insanity is described as doing the same task, yet expecting a different outcome. Everyone is saying "do bones" expecting everyone else to either quieten up, and it isn't working. I'm just trying to break the mould and actually get people to come up with something new.
You didn’t do bones, you did “some” of them.
There is nothing wrong with NoEd. It doesn’t need any changes.
Nothing wrong with Killers stating “just do bones”. Survivor is a team role that can be played solo, the responsibility is upon all of the Survivors to cleanse the totems.
You have the ability to chat before the match starts. Remind people to do bones. Suggest someone brings Small Game or Detectives Hunch. You also have the option to bring in a map or run Plunderers to get a free one.
You kept going on and on about how this thread isn’t t about NoEd per say, and that it is more about how “do bones” is an excuse. It isn’t an excuse, totems are literally the secondary objective, you don’t have to do them, but be prepared to suffer the consequences if the Killer runs a powerful hex Perk.
Your problem isn’t NoEd, your problem is having lazy teammates who have tunnel vision for gens. Instead of asking for NoEd to be changed why don’t you ask for improvement for communication between Survivors? Why don’t you ask for the Devs to actually do a good job with matchmaking so you’re not paired with potatoes? I’ll tell you way, because you just want an easier time.
You are not entitled to an easier time, nor are you entitled to escape. If NoEd was such a big deal for you, you’d have used one of the many counters that it has, but apparently, basing this off of your other thread, annoying Killers is more of a priority for you than cleansing totems are.
Finally, your other option is to avoid the Killer once the gens are complete and leave. You don’t have to stay and save anyone. That’s just a risk you chose to take.
those are some real good points, however, if you do bones instead of gen rushing, it wouldnt be a problem.
Just. Do. Bones.
Do more bones
Ok, I got another solution for you that helps against NOED and doesn't require you to do anything at all:
Don't be chased / caught when the last gen is about to pop and don't be the first to get found once gates are powered.
The result is that most likely someone else gets caught and hooked instead and in the meantime you can safely open the gate and escape. EzClap NOED avoided!
Yeah, no. It's not original to whine: "BoNEs Don'T AlwAYs WoRK!😢"
Couldn't find a totem? Boo hoo. Totems are random. Sometimes well hidden, sometimes right next to a gen. Just accept you probably won't get them all.
NOED is the most mediocre perk that people cry about. If the killer is doing well, it does nothing. If they are doing poorly, it MIGHT give them 1kill.
Just do bones when you see them, and ALWAYS assume the killer has NOED unless you see someone get hit and not get insta-downed.
The only time NOED completely changes things is when people get cocky at the end and start trying to make stupid saves and "epic" plays.
If somebody gets hooked with NOED and the other 3 are at the gate, just go. 3 escaping is better than all dead.
Aww, I get you. But yea, more than likely they won't stop saying it and itsy pretty much all you can do against it currently. If they modified NoeD someway, I probably wouldn't care because I really don't hate NoED as much as I hate DS, but I definitely understand why you and others do so I get it.
Personally, I think there's other important balances to make to bring Solo up to SWF level of gameplay experience. If they could figure out a way to make that happen, this game could even have true competitive potential. I think all their focus should be on things like totem counters and more inherent information without perks..
There is only one major change NoED needs and that's just instantly revealing exposed.
DS is also fine, but that's also a com.hnity issue, rather than a design one.
At least you've been civil about this. Thank you.
Oh great, the nerf billy guy is whining again. What’s after NOED? Killer basic attacks?
This guy has always been like that. He used to argue that: Billy shouldn’t be able to chainsaw to my gen, find me crouching behind a rock and down me before I get out of the dead zone. Now billy sucks.
If i see one more do more bones arguement i swear tg. Peanits confirmed one major problem lies when the killers camping with noed or high pressure killers. Lets say killer downs first survivor in 30 seconds as bubba. Okay gens take 80 seconds to do so they are half way done when the killer starts to camp (10 seconds to hook). Death timer is 2 minutes one survivor hops off to go for the save and sees killers camping so has to come back killing like maybe 20 seconds while the other 2 gens pop. Survivor gets gen done while other survivors are starting on next gen survivor dies because its been 2 minutes. Killer heads over other survivor kills say maybe 30-40 seconds running. 2 survivors on gens takes 80 seconds each but it took 10 seconds for each of them to get to a new gen. They get last 2 gens done so they have 20 seconds to get the heck out. Killer leaves hook 5 seconds before survivor dies on hook and gets 3rd survivor with noed and facecamps him to death. So lets add totems to the equation now. Each totem takes 15 seconds meaning itd take 30 seconds for 3 of the survivors and 15 for another. This is why otz made facecamping bubba combo and its known as the "combo with no answer". It also sucks when you are being pressured by a high pressure killer like oni barely get the gens done just to get hit by another instadown on a already instadown killer. I understand the perk but if we really want to move away from swf and buff solos to their level noeds gonna be a prime candiate to look at. I can do 4 totems and be like "alright as long as survivors did literally 1 totem im fine" at the end i get hit by noed and die on hook. I did my job i cleansed 4 totems! Did gens and did saves! Why do i get punished for this!? This isnt even considered a team based game by the devs its considered a free for all yet perks like noed kinda force the "we need to work together" narrative. Bringing in small game puts you on totem duty which is still 70 seconds of cleansing if you do it by yourself and you always need to do it to assume noed. So either way noed is saving the killer time (even if they don't have it) its like killers with ds you can never know when the survivor has it so slugging is always a choice you need to maybe make (ive ran unbreakable but not ds for this reason i hope someone else brings ds so the killer slugs me to avoid it. Thats the power of a perk like it. Go ahead and waste time doing totems in fear of my perk i don't have i don't do hex's so your just giving me more pressure by wasting your time.
This poster will argue for killer nerf and killer perk nerf over and over again. (s)he only grows emboldened by the actual nerfs. My guess is this player is immerse and sucks at looping which is why (s)he is constantly calling for nerfs since they lack the skill to just play the game.
So you want the perk nerfed because you don’t like the performance of your survivor teams? How about no.
You mention trying Small Game and later say you'd have no room for Detective's Hunch, should you level up Tapp.
Just swap whatever perk you initially swapped with Small Game with your newly acquired DH (assuming you actually want to address your concern).
If you don't want to use this guaranteed solution that you've already mentioned having access to (Tapp), then that's on you @_@
Even I don't like noed I wanna explain sth to you and maybe you are one of these childs who get it.
This perk, like some other perks, create these "#########, holy #########, ah #########, maaaan, oh nose" moments. Like DS, BT. Unbreakable, soul guard, or whatever.
These perks are helping to make games more intense, difficuilt and exciting. If we lets say delete all those perks. Wouldnt games become pretty standard? boring? accurate?
Games should be interesting. Exciting. There should be very strong things on both sides. If you can't enjoy them because you prefer them like you want them to be? Then yeah maybe you should play Civ 5 or something. Dead by Daylight lifes by those moments.
You know what I'm, doing when noed is a thing? I'm running Detectives Hunch. So maybe we have the time to do all bones or I will exactly know where I have to go after the last gen. And I'm running Inner Strenght so it's not a waste of time doing dulls.
And... Isn't it funny spectating your teammates. The last gen popps.. You see your teammate having a big moment like "We did it booooyz lets gooo" and 5 seconds later "Hex: No One Escapes Death"
I don't know if it's just me but when my teammates get downed by it it's kinda killing me everytime. And sometimes you can already smell the noed or see it in its eyes.
Hope is to give you hope
What i meant with pigs rbt or plagues cleansing, is that at this point too you can get destroyed by the bad actions of your team mate, like absolutly wanting to do a gen when 2+ have a trap or cleansing all the god damn time against plague.
There are a lot of perk that have a good purpose but a bad use or that gives bad habits, and saddly its often among the most used perks.
Yeah i misubderstood the line with the DS advice
And lets be honest... people dont help each other much in here, nor survivors, nor killers, in this forums everyone is just anger and BS, everyone just wanna complain, that is actually very sad, but its the way it went...complaining about any thing to tell others why you shouldnt have lost that one game because you brought pharmacy and forgot it would give you a free medikit and not a key
No offense intended of course, for me the best way to counter noed is to do the bones (beside you can see it happen by a long shot for many killers...you know that this trapper, wraith, clown or deathslinger will have it, you KNOW it)
...or use these cheeky teammates to take the down for you, also works but its a bit more evil~
If you get downed against a Leatherface in 30-40 seconds you deserve to lose. Keeping the Killer busy for as long as possible is a major aspect of DbD, probably the most important one and Leatherface is one of the easiest Killers to loop even now after his buff.
Besides, the same perks exist for Survivors aswell, namely DS and BT. Unsafe unhooks in front of the Killer. Go ahead and kill the injured Survivor and waste time going through BT and DS. Or chase the other Survivor and go through the 3 hook stages again.
Depends On the map and your positioning and what the bubbas using and the skill of said bubba. Not everyones a godly looper even in the top.
Not really, no.
When the match starts not a single pallet is used so there should be plenty of loopable obstacles. If you end up in a dead zone without a sprint burst / lithe ready to reach a pallet it was your lack of map awareness that gave the Bubba a quick chase. An early hook is almost always the case of incompetent / impatient Survivors.
Quite ironically, the first hook is also the most important one for the Killers as it allows them to snowball. I'm always impressed how quickly Survivors give that away even though they have a fresh map with 20 pallets available.
Yet otz did the noed camping combo for 8 hours and only lost to a 4 man stream snipe with maps and small game. So if this combo works that well even up there theres some variable that were missing and peanits confirmed they were looking at the noed bubba combo for that reason. Probably because your guaranteed at least a 2k with how camping is and noed being a instadown for free at the end. Which a 2k is a win in the devs eyes.
NO, YOU DIDN´T DO THEM. YOU DID SOME!!!! OF THEM.
And thats the difference. but since it seems to hard to understand, it seems like wasted time to argue.
Yeah, while the perk has counters the issue remains that your "team" often doesn't contribute to doing totems. As a result you either do nothing but hunt totems (as a solo) or are up in the air as to how effective you have been destroying them. If BHVE were to add a "totem counter" as others have suggested, this could cause harm to other hex perks resulting an even less effectiveness/reason to run them (I also don't like being spoon fed all my information).
Then there is the issue that NOED (like it or hate it) does reward players who are not as skillful by giving them a "steamroll" ability, add this to a killer who DOES show skill and you have a power that drastically increases their odds of gaining kills.
Its very similar to how DS does almost nothing for a player with a lack of skill/experience but can win a game for a survivor who has that skill. NOED is not a very healthy perk for the game, even if I personally don't have much (ish) issue with it as I tend to play for my survival alone. Its still one of those things that just doesn't feel good to go against.
A survivor pulls off a nice Dead Hard and I often say/feel "damn, nice play" or a killer manages to keep Pop Goes The Weasel pressure up I'll say "damn hes keeping me on the offensive". I feel such perks feel fine to lose to because the skill the player exhibits is what pushes its success.
If a killer who was pushing a close match with us and was really putting on a good match suddenly has NOED pop and dominates, it just feels "cheap". If a killer who was being dominated suddenly has NOED pop and now gets two kills (most likely trying for a 4k slug or a single facecamp kill) it doesn't feel like I got outplayed or lost to a more skillful player. THAT is why I'm not a fan of the perk, counter-able or not, but I'm also not going to speak to BHVR on the perk being changed/altered because the forums rarely offer decent feedback or its drowned out in pure toxicity.
PS: Yes it has been some time ^.^
2k is not a win and has never been, it's what the devs consider "balanced match" and that's it. Even back in the days of Victory Cube it took more than 2 kills to pip. Now 2 kills by camping lead to a depip for sure so that's not a win - no matter how you twist it.
Is there a VOD of that available? When did he do that? And what were the win conditions?
BTW: Otzdavra has roughly 6000 hours in Dead By Daylight. I would assume most of his opponents are potatoes in comparision so surely he is able to end chases faster than the regular "facecamping NOED bubba". Let him try that against four 6k hours Survivor mains and see how it goes, I'm sure they won't go down that quick.
He Did it on twitch but i can only go back a month now. Big sad. But im sure he faced some 6k hour survivors in a 8 hour long livestream. Ill check to see if he put a clip on yt.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing but I just saw this meme and remembered this thread and had to post it here lol.
I like NOeD as killer in the same way that survivors love DS. The mere threat of either perk warrants a shift in play from both sides. If a killer sees no obsession, if they're smart, they will tunnel every survivor after unhook. It's the smart play.
All the 'do bones' responses.... psh! Do any of the killers who say this play solo survivor? How do you know if 3 other teammates cleansed totems? How long should I continue to look for totems so that you have more time to catch me and less time on gens.. Should I scour the map for 2 min.. 5 min.. 10 min... 20 min just to ensure a totem still isn't out there. There needs to be a totem counter like gen counter for survivors to see... else I'll just hide in lockers for 30 min + and continue to look for totems because I don't know that 'bones aren't done'.
Here is a scenario. 4 survivors all 'Do BONES!!' 1 gets 2, 2 gets 1, 3 gets 1, 4 gets 1. Each survivor thinks there are still 4 out there except for 1, they think 3. So all 4 survivors should keep looking for bones so you can kill them? I know you all would be super happy if every surv in a match spent the entire match looking for non-existent items so you could catch them all.
I've heard some valid points in this thread, and numerous, 'you didn't do them all'. So, I ask again, how would anyone ever know that they were all done? Sounds like you killers are advocating for 4 man SWFS with comms, no?
JUST. DO. BONES.
I don't know man this seems like a rant. I've had noed get popped plenty of times before it really had any effect, I've also had it wreck a team and similar scenarios when I've played against it. I think people hate on it because it undermines someone's expected escape.
You often see the argument if you've completed the gens you deserve to escape and that's a problem, frankly nothing is guaranteed until every survivor is sacc'ed or escaped. If noed is up its time to stealth out and hunt for bones. When you see bones during a match cleanse them.
The only games I've had where noed really wrecked was when gens popped so fast I'd barely got 2 hooks, then the lack of separating out tasks from gens to bones is a fault of the survivor team. If you want to avoid noed instill a culture of countering it by doing bones, don't cry nerf in the chat.
I actually really like that idea. In fact, I actually agree for that specific perk, that would be a very fair change that brings solo up to SWF.
At the same time, it's addressing the issue without the need to add something like a totem counter, which would probably be very clunky to implement anyway.
And no problem! It's all good, the game is what it is and sometimes bi think we forget there's really no point in getting upset over eachother's views. They more than likely won't have an effect on the game one way or another anyway, so I got to remind myself there's no point in trying to challenge every opinion all the time, it's a drain. Thanks for being civil as well
I did not ONCE call for a nerf on either threads.
One was saying that Billy (pre-cooldown) was too easy to play for his reward and that you could spend a small fraction of the time playing Hillbilly to get the same results as a killer like Nurse.
THIS one is about the garbage excuse "do bones".
Maybe if you'd actually read my posts for once you'd understand.
I mean, not really? If it were that strong everyone would be running it and it would be meta, but it's not. If it were that good Hex totems would never even have a CHANCE to proc, because everyone would be running Small Game, but almost no one runs it, and not because it's not meta but because it's just not that good. It's quite like its' other Meh perk brethren. Dark Sense sounds like a good perk in theory, but why run that when you could run Empathy or Kindred or any better Aura perk (or hell even OoO)? Why run No One Left Behind when you can run We'll Make It or WGLF for BP bonus? Most early filler perks don't give enough bang for their buck to actually be useful enough to bring.
And Small Game still doesn't solve the Solo Q problem of not knowing who else is doing bones (if anyone), or having to rely entirely on yourself to (hopefully) negate a perk that may or may not exist while hoping all along that your teammates aren't complete potatoes.
Honestly if they added a totem counter, or even just changed what NOED procced off of (make it more similar to Devour Hope) then I think less people would complain about it overall.
If it's about the term "do bones", then it's about NOED. There's no other situation where it's relevant. You don't get to separate them. And it's not an "excuse". It's the answer.
Don't gate keep just because your argument is as broken as Dwight's glasses.
Again, there's no version of this situation where you are correct.
Without NOED, there would be no reason to do dull totems. You would never have that fear when the last gen is done if NOED is in play or not. When NOED activates, its time to be stealthy and find the totem.
I have a bigger problem with all the aura perks that killers can use. A killer with the right perk loadout and he knows where everyone is at all times. That's a lot more game changing than a perk that can be disabled by removing a totem.
So when is Small Game getting a Totem aura reading aspect to facilitate 'doing bones' more realistically again?
The difference is that while the phrase is exclusively tied to the perk NoED this is a conversation separate from the balance of the perk.
And while yes, it is an answer it is one that is overused and also given to people who are actually trying to do said bones.
Point is that you wouldn't say "don't tunnel" to a killer getting hit by DS from survivors who abuse it, so NoED and bones shouldn't get a free pass because there are survivors who do bones to prevent it.
If trying to get the conversation back to it's actual point is gatekeeping, then I have iridescent gatekeeper because people keep trying to change the conversation from what it actually is.
And it's not about being right, it's about recognising that it's not all black and white, there ARE outlying cases that can't be treated with the same worn-out statement.
DS get invincibility twice a game for 60 seconds more than enough time to do all gens
Unbreakable counters snowball potential of killers slugging
Iron will make no sounds for free even though you should still have some but nope time to use a perk that just breaks all the spaghetti code and just abuse it
Deadhard free second chance button when you messed up looping or just need more distance
Adrenaline incentive to stay injured to just get a free heal and escape at the end of the game just for having it
And the people that use 4 perks from this list every game just whine that noed is op
And how many of them use those perks for their intended use or relate to "Do bones" being outdated advice that also doesn't apply to every survivor as there are those that actually cleanse totems?
Im pointing out you are complaining that killers have one blatant strong thing that they don't need to do anything in particular to use while survivors have 5 that can be named easy also only 3/4 just do more bones