I Did Bones. You Need A New Excuse.
This is just a reminder that yes, there are indeed survivors who do bones in order to try and counter NoED. These players also generally don't gen-rush.
When these players come here and say that NoED is indeed a terrible perk and needs changing, they're right. They do not need to "git gud", they do not need to hear "Just do bones." and they do NOT need to hear a garbage spiel about how easy the perk is to counter, the killer is "oNlY pLaYiNg WiTh 3 PeRkS!" or the points of DS/BT/DH/UB being perks and can be stacked.
To now make the "Do bones" argument null and void, I will now highlight every way that this argument is totally invalid:
- Survivor perks, such as Decisive Strike and Unbreakable are used with the hope that they are NEVER ACTIVATED. Well, for a lot of their users anyway. People can claim this as being perks down, much like the arguments for NoED.
- The so-called Survivor equivelant, Adrenaline, is only a small and temporary boost while NoED is permanent if activated. Yes, the health state is temporary, but there are several killers that have base-kit instant downs so this really shouldn't be THAT big of an issue.
- NoED does not discriminate between those who have done totems and those who do not. This leads to several cases like mine where I am commonly doing 3-4 dull totems MYSELF and getting killed after only one hit and hook. I am being punished for others failing, not my own failure. I know that Survivor is technically a team game, but there is a point where the individual should not be punished for the failures of the team.
- It creates bad habits. Rather than actually adapting to applying pressure through various means, or learning how to improve in chases, NoED is used as a safety net in order to get kills that one would not normally be able to achieve, making them think that they are more skilled than they actually are. Rather than getting better at their role, they are telling others to do way more work because they refuse to adapt.
- Counters to a majority of Survivor perks are merely a change in mindset or playstyle, such as trading hooks to apply pressure and avoid Decisive Strike AND Borrowed Time. NoED requires survivors to go out of their way in order to stop one of your perks.
- The "counters" are also indirect and limited, also chewing up valuable perk slots for other perks to counter some of the more unsavoury tactics that killers use and are not perk dependent.
Main point here is that yes, I do the dull totems. They are more bloodpoints and cancel the perk. I AM NORMALLY THE ONE TO GET HIT BY IT. Most of these games, it is also the first hook that I will be placed on and will also ultimately kill me.
There are also many issues that I have with NoED on a fundamental level as a perk, especially with it's activation for both general activation and notification of it's activity. Every other Hex perk requires ONE totem to be destroyed, where as NoED can have up to 5 required, before endgame.
All exposure effects outside of NoED and Devour Hope also give instant notification. Devour Hope also has a lengthy list of requirements to activate outside of "be loosing" in order to achieve the same effect. Devour Hope is also a TEACHABLE perk, one that should be more powerful than base-perks as you have to do a lot more work for them to become available.
So, fellow killers, while you lot think up of an actual excuse for NoED being the way it is, I'll be off actually doing the damn bones whenever I decide to indulge in a little bit of Survivor while I try to progress my Archives. In the meantime, whenever any of you argue about Decisive Strike, Borrowed Time, Unbreakable just remember this advice, since it's ok for YOU to give it: Just don't tunnel, camp or slug. Never mind that the survivor ran at you or started working on that generator or unhooking that other survivor in your face. Kinda hypocritical, isn't it? That's how I feel every time I hear the phrase "just do bones".
I did them, so now what?
Comments
When someone is coming up with a topic like this, why do people always argue that the other side also has potentially unfair stuff? Why not just stick with the topic?
Its not about DS or Unbreakable, its about NOED. It might be true that DS can be unfair aswell and should be adressed, but why use it as a "counter argument" for Noed?
Same with the endless Mori / Key discussion. "Key is fine because other side has Mori". đŠ
He is obviously joking there.
While NOED is unhealthy for the game and isn't an ok perk, doing bones is a fair counter. If you have detective's hunch, do a totem after every gen, and you'll be helping your team a lot. Survivors don't need 4 perks.
People don't have an actual reply so they try to change the subject. There are those who have actually put forth valid counterpoints that I will address, when I'm available to do so as they will take a while and faster when I'm not on my phone.
4 percent speed isn't that much, it means you will get across the map faster by less than a second.
In a loop it's gamechanging.
noed is a weak perk. It wastes a perkslot for the whole game and at most gives you one kill. It's not strong, it's not oppressive. It doesn't even matter if you do bones. Only bad survivors allow a noed killer more than 1 kill. It's no different than using the hatch when you're the last survivor with no gens completed.
There's even less point in making a "noed is bad" post than any other perk. I hate to say it, but the Devs seem extremely pleased with NOED because of the fake counterplay that is "do bones". It is their way of bandaiding the gen speeds: Force survivors to take a precautionary measure that will probably lose them the game because of the nature of totems spawns. I've seen them use that excuse in posts and in livestreams, and to be fair it sounds reasonable til you look at a wider range of scenario's than genrushing deathsquads.
Whenever I play as Survivor, I tell everyone pre-chat to do bones. DO BONES.
That said, I still support changing NOED.
yeah do bones ..... you must accept it. If you do, good for you and if you do theres no excuses noed user needs to do. A new excuse ? nice bait .....Deal with it
This is a "I'm DOING the bones, come up with some new material" message.
Someone is salty they had to do bones.
I love it.
Not even.
Just daring people to come up with original arguments.
He hooked a person before he downed that person. What was he supposed to do if the survivor just stares at him for all eternity ?
I mean you did just go for her after she got unhooked, that is tunneling. You had the option of slugging her and going for the David which would have been the absolute best play.
I am assuming you think that because you hooked someone else it should be disabled but I mean you yourself only mentioned when the survivor does something. What you did is tunnel and hope they didnt have Ds so you could kill them.
I agree (and I have seen some community managers agreeing as well) that DS should probably disable when you start participating in the game again. Doing objectives, repairing gens, rescuing, healing (or my own addition, exit gates have been opened and its not permanently disabled) but it should still protect from being focused right after being unhooked, because thats tunelling.
I do the bones and have never gone down to noed. Except a few times when I lost count and thought I did 5. As a survivor I never had a problem with the perk.
Every bullet point was either: Making illogical comparisons; pointing out the obvious whilst pretending the point you made was actually a negative somehow; or complaining that you have to expend effort.
I don't really think I need anyone needs a new argument...
Not sure why I even bothered to respond to each point considering that I know nothing I could ever say will sway your opinion.
I guess I just want it on record that I think basically everything you said was silly, kinda salty, and clearly biased.
You are bad at the game if you can't counter Noed. Simple as that. Instead of being lazy just practice and get better.
Get out of my thread if you can't read.
A solo player can also run detectives hunch or small game.
If noed is constantly a problem for you, use the perks available and remedy it.
Funny thing is that I don't need to. I just need teammates who will do ONE or two set of bones.
I'm already doing them when I see them. Not much more I can do! And I have also tried Small Game for an Archives mission. Not a fan.
If you're already doing ALL the bones, then no you dont need to, because noed wouldnt happen. But the post says that you still encounter noed.
If you dont want to rely on randoms, then run a perk to ensure you cleared noed.
Otherwise why does this post exist?
It's a non issue. People love to complain about what they could remedy themselves though.
So, again, if noed is an issue FOR YOU, RUN A PERK TO HELP WITH YOUR ISSUE.
"Not a fan" of small game? Well then try detectives or accept you may miss bones.you cant ignore a solution and then complain about the problem.
I average 3-4 totems solo per game. With tallies like that, and trying to deal with OTHER problems, I don't have the 10 perk slots I need to cover everything.
My issue is that I don't have the TIME to get all 5 of them, and occasionally I will have searched what feels like the entire map. Even Small Game didn't help me actually find those last few totems. That and I don't have Detective's Hunch unlocked as a teachable.
And I've probably said this 20 times this thread, but it isn't the perk, it's the excuse of "Just do bones" that I take issue with. Because I DID them. And I'm always the one to get hit.
You can play with 0 perks and be fine. If noed is an issue for you. Run the perk that solves it. Not that hard. It takes maybe 2 or 3 minutes to go around the ENTIRE map. If you look well, you will find them.
You have PLENTY of time if you dont feel the urge to do 5 gens in 5 minutes...
Detectives hunch is good, but maps work too if you dont have it unlocked.
If I'm solo and tend to be left on hook or tunneled, guess what? I run kindred and DS. I dont come here and say, "stop defending tunneling" or "solo is unplayable". I use what's given to fix my issues.
So you think killers should expect to never reach EGC? WOuldn't that be kinda imbalanced by design?
I think you missed some bones
There needs to be a totem counter implemented. I'm in the same situation where I'll do 3-4 totems and still die by NOED.
Though I guarantee if a totem counter happened, killer players would complain about it.
Sucks to do 4 totems, see no Totems on Detective's Hunch, and assume your teammates did ONE totem. Only to get hit by NoED. It's pretty map dependent, too. Because on some maps totems are extremely difficult to find. While on other maps their locations are easy to discern.
But not only is NoED an important part of the game, as it encourages survivors to do totems, it's also not a great perk.
Often, NoED results in ONE extra hook for the killer. In 82 games with NoED, it resutled in only 38 kills. That's not even half a killer per use of NoED! That's because a lot of the time NoED doesn't even activate. Either because survivors did all the totems, or because the survivors fail to complete all the generators.
Best advice I can give you is to be aware when there's on gen left to pop. If you've found four totems, do a cursory search for the last one while trying to stay out of the killer's LOS. Don't draw their attention unless you know 5 totems are done, or he's hit another survivor and NoED didn't proc.
"Counters to a majority of Survivor perks are merely a change in mindset or playstyle, such as trading hooks to apply pressure and avoid Decisive Strike AND Borrowed Time. NoED requires survivors to go out of their way in order to stop one of your perks."
First of all, learn to play before talking, you dont even know how DS is used.
1) A surv is unhooked, then he agressivly runs to unhook teammate and simply jumps in to a locker. (most killers do not tunnel , so checkmate).
2) A surv is unhooked, then he runs to repair a critical gen that at 90% of progress if you come closer he simply jumps in to a locker You have a choice between wating about 20-50 seconds or losing a gen. Even if there was no locker and you put him in to a dying state he can simply crawl away.
3) A surv is unhooked, then he start repairing a nearest gen without trying to hide/leave a place he was hooked . 80 sec takes repairing of one gen, DS has duaration of 60 sec. Most likely there are 2 survs on the gen.
4) A surv is unhooked, he gets heal, he starts playing agressive and risky , he baits you, bodyblock you, he helps his teammates in recovery from dying state etc, you hit him once and he goes in to a locker or he lures you away in to an empty corner. You cant pick him up and you wasted time
"The so-called Survivor equivelant, "
There are ONE killer having 4 perks and 4 survs having 16 perks. They should not be equal, he is killer and must be powerful and scary.
 Rather than actually adapting to applying pressure through various means, or learning how to improve in chases, NoED is used as a safety net in order to get kills that one would not normally be able to achieve
wow, why would anybody pick such usefull perk? He should learn, adapting and do 232312 other things. Why? Because you say so? You can also say that people should play without perks at all without any tracking perks or perks such ruin/pop because BAD habits!! you have to learn playing without them!!
MYSELF and getting killed after only one hit and hook.
such tragedy , how can you live with that ? Guess you must be immortal.
You didn't do bones. You attempted to do bones and failed. Its a team game if your whole team isn't helping out that's inyour team. Do bones
You mind trying that again without outright insulting me?
Thanks.
No, I DID bones. Nobody else did.
Get a new excuse.
you dont know how ds is used. How is that an insult?
You could have communicated that you had small game in pre match chat. Also they host a discord channel you all can organize yourself into one before the match starts
You didn't do bones you did 4 out of 5. You attempted bones. Get a new excuse
In my experience many (50% +) survivors play aggressive and WANT actively to activate the perk (the plays that most people consider as abuse)
NOED isn't permanent. Also, as you yourself said, "IF" activated. Adrenaline activates in endgame, NOED can be countered before it activates.
As you brought in Adrenaline, I'll pick on that one as well: Adrenaline also does not discriminate who did the gens to get Adrenaline activated. This is the team aspect, and you can't blame perks for bad teams. When you die first hook because your team doesn't unhook you, are you blaming the hookig mechanic? Request built in Deliverance? Killer nerf? That doesn't make sense.
I agree that it supports the super scummy playstyle of facecamping/tunneling the first survivor and get an easy second (probably more) kill in endgame. That's a bad thing. But would also be targeted by your argument "don't punish for the behaviour of a few". But in first place you can't insinuate that people using NOED are not willing or trying to improve in chases. NOED can assist and put some pressure on the survivors to aid you in endgame, where you normally have very little pressure to protect gates, hooks and chase survivors all at once. But expecting all killers to be just lazy and rely on NOED is simply wrong.
Or find the totem. Also to that point and your statement "I did totems": you don't necessarily need to cleanse all totems before endgame. Memorize their placements when you see them, just run past the typical spots. Cleanse the critical ones (near gates, well hidden) and also remember where you find cleansed totems.
So if the killer doesn't camp or tunnel, you wasted 2 perks. Without any effect. Hunch gives you valuable information even without facing NOED. And if you have that many games where you do bones but die to NOED, maybe it is worth a try. I pick my perks to counter what I dislike the most. Sometimes I switch BT for Distortion, when I faced the 5th Spirit/Freddy/Billy/Nurse with BBQ
So all in all, if we extend "do bones" to "do critical bones and memorize the spots", I would say there is no invalidation of the argument. Basically it is a team thing, like many frustrating things in this game originate from bad teams, aka matchmaking/ranking/trolls/antimates. Not a perk problem
Well, maybe because I DO know how it's used, you twisted my points and attempted to put words in my mouth and change the discussion.
This is about the excuse "DO BONES" which I do. I prioritise it. Killers need a new excuse.
Xbox player. No game chat.
I did. Accept that or leave.
Years ago during a world cup the American goalie tallied up a world record in saves for a match but still lost. That's how team games work. This post is absurd and in no way invalidates saying do bones
You didn't accept that or leave. If you had done bones noed would not have activated. You attempted bones
Any potatoe laptop can boot up discord
Oh, but it does. And why? Because I DID the counter, or at least attempted it and telling me to do what I'm already doing is no excuse.
You following?
No you tried to do the counter and failed I don't see the problem. Like if a survivor tries to loop and fails doesn't mean looping is broken.
Tell ya what?
No. I do MORE than my fair share on the team. I did the counter as much as possible and I'm still the one to suffer.
All I want is for something NEW to be said, rather than the same recycled garbage constantly. Looks like that's just too much to ask for!
At least on the map thing I would say, there are currently 3 maps I like to burn when bringing totem perks: Hawkins, Lerys and Midwhich. These are new enough or have decent spots for totems to survive. But that's it. Like we all know several maps that are killer sided or survivor sided and we just deal with it as it is random and not excessively x-sided in total, in this aspect we have 3 "totem-sided" maps. Of 30+ maps. So I think it is fine and not a too big issue.
The advice shouldn´t be do bones. It should be: Do ALL bones. Doing some bones doesn´t counter noed, just like preventing 2 gens to be done doesn´t stop the gates from being powered.
All I hear though is "just do bones" when I'm the only one on the team doing it. I'm just over hearing it.
But you didn't even do they advice and I got you now. The new advice is do ALL the bones.