If ruin was nerfed for being overused why perks like ds,bt,sprint burst,dead hard aren't?
Every game there's at least one survivor running one of these perks and most of the times all of them in a combo.Even when a survivor perk is nerfed,it barely makes a difference like ds,the nerf barely made a difference,its still the best survivor perk.Compared to when a killer gets nerfed like we saw recently with Billy and Leatherface.Addons completely gutted and Billy rework made him both unfun and weak.The worst part is killer addons,creating useless addons just so killers wil have something to spend their bloodpoints on,what's the point of making useless addons and sometimes even detrimental ones?Many killer ultra addon are so bad even if they we're common ones.Devs are so afraid of making a killer remotely decent lately they are all getting washed up reworks or come out that way.Until devs wont show otherwise they will remain survivor biased.
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it didnt get nerfed because it was overused.
it got nerfed because "Killers got carried" by ruin and baby survivors couldnt finish gens.
Yes. That is true.
Additionally, survivors are carried by DS, Dead Hard, etc. Honestly imo if I could choose just one perk to remove or butcher, I would choose DH and leave the rest alone.
BTW, I'm not insulting you, I'm pointing out that the developers ignore the fact that survivors are carried by perks just like how killers used to be carried by Ruin.
Campers and tunnelers. Dedicated servers is already a dead hard nerf.
because ds, bt, sprint burst and unbreakable are survivor perks.
The devs stated that no survivor perk (except for self care) is anywhere close to being used by 80% of players in red ranks.
you're joking right
The Ruin change also caused a whole ton of other balance changes because reworking it exposes issues with other aspects of the game. The more common survivor perks like DS and BT would also require re-balancing other parts of the game if they were significantly changed. So until they figure out a way to fix those issues in a way that keeps both sides as happy as this community gets, they probably don’t want to change too much.
Personally I don't mind DH, most times it gets mis-used, mis-timed or makes people cocky and screw up anyway. I'd say DS is a little more broken than DH. The idea being that DS is to counter tunneling is a bit of a joke as the best way to counter it is to tunnel it out early and then finish that poor guy off.
Well, OoO is not overused too and we all know how broken it is.
because the devs cant balance this game. Most pvp games get monthly buffs/nerfs to alot of things(characters/items/maps) but the guys at dbd might change up a few things every 2 months but bring in 10 more outfits every month
It was not nerfed due to overuse. Overuse was a clue that we should investigate. Upon investigation, we found several issues with it. These were explained in the design notes posted about it.
We had this thread yesterday.
And how does the development team feel about the perks mentioned in this topic?
No, that's what the devs said, no perk is used nearly as much in red rank as what ruin was.
That's how things can run. If something in the game gets used at a very high rate, the devs look at it. Is it fair, balanced, fun for both sides. Does need a nerf, change, adjustment, QoL.
I mean look at Selfcare. It had a high usage rate but instead of changing it they nerfed the whole healing mechanic along with perk chan ges like slopper butcher. That's the same thing. And I believe Ds, Dh and what so ever has an similar usage rate like BBQ, pop, enduring, whispers, Corrupted.
And both sides has their perks which seem like fair to the owner side but not for the opponent. Like, are you sure survivors love pop goes the weasel? Or do you really think people love noed?, enfury? still ruin? And there are also many players who despites BBQ. Both sides have their perks which the other side don't like and would like to see a change.
if you ask me as a killer I would like to see changes to unbreakable, dead hard and the hatch spawning rules. And if you ask me as a survivor I would like to see some changes to noed, sloppy butcher and moris.
okay so first off ruin wasnt nerf it was rework and tbh new ruin is way better than old one while being less unhealthy if you know how to pressure gens and people on them
second ruin was changed because it was extremely unhealthy to play againts and was a free skilless huge value perk and had no real counterplay outside of finding it and getting rid of it and despite the legends you don't always get crap totem spot
all the perk you have mentionned have counterplay and arent as unhealthy as ruin was and arent free value perk unlike old ruin
Similar to the Billy nerf as some red rank survivors didn't know how to dodge Billy... some red rank survivors couldn't hit great skill checks
I dont use any of those perks.
My build : Resilence, iron will, SprintB, WGLF.
Playing on rank 1, escape rate around 90% if i get atleast 1 decsnt teammate.
I get carried by Resilence for extra vault speed. Does it mean it needs to get nerfed?
DS is a must have for survivors most killer are just hard tunneling.
BT wouldnt be a perk when killers wouldnt Camp.
Unbreakable is there for slugging.
Adren is only good in a cordinated SWF.
Btw i play more killer then survivor and when i play survivor and see how some killers play i dont blame people using these meta perks.
Do i like to go against these perks? No i dont, but i also dont blame them. Fair killer like me suffer from the killers who slug, tunnel, camp all the time.
Another question, IF nobody would camp and tunnel what is the possibility that DS and BT would stay as meta perks? None.
You want Fun i understand it but the guy you verse against from 5.000 miles away also wants fun they're not robots and dont play the game just to get tunneled every single game.
Btw current Ruin is still good and im using it with some killers.
When asked they refused to either give the usage numbers for these perks(So we don't even know if that's true).
Nor would they answer how survivors' perks usage rates worked:
If its based on if there is one of said perk
Or
If its based on total people with said perk in any given game
Or
if it only counts gaves with a specific threshold of people using said perk.
All 3 of these would give wildy different numbers but the developers refuse to let us know which is used to count survivor's perk usage rate.
Almo has also stated he is very happy with how current DS is now. So hopefully that means it's not gonna be changed. Same with BT since killers wanna whine they can't get a a kill end game guaranteed but camping hooks.
You can go a full game without using DS for a slew of reasons. Anti-tunnel perk that is on a cooldown... I see no issue.
BT is anti-camp and tunnel. Aka, if you don't play like a d-bag, you won't even be bothered by it. If someone unhooks in your face, maybe go for the unhooker?
Sprint Burst, and Dead Hard are good perks, but are easily countered and have their downsides.
A super try-hard survivor might have 3 of these perks maximum, but running two exhaustion perks in the same build is near pointless. Even in a game where multiple survivors are running DS, BT, + exhaustion perk, all the killer has to do is play around the assumption of DS/BT and remember who has which exhaustion perk. That's it. You have your own strong killer perks at your disposal in conjunction with killer power, moris, and add-ons.
Both sides have insanely strong build potential, but in the end it's up to the individual players to outplay each other using whatever they have at their disposal.
The Difference between the killer perks you mentioned and survivor perks such as Dead head, borrowed time, ds and sprint burst is they are designed to be 'get out of jail free' perks, that can be used multiple times per match (save DS).Where are all the killer perks designed that if survivors screw up their positioning they get a confirmed kill?
and survivors don't get carried by 4 meta perks?
How dare they play the hook when all the gens are done. They can patrol hot air on the other side of the map, but play the only remaining objective instead. Dumbass killers, amirite?
Wow I came here to be like "Oh @Almo hopefully that means you'll be looking at these survivors perks because their overuse might be a serious clue too" but you absolutely destroyed that with an impeccable presentation on why DS is bad and possible solutions. It's only one specific perk of the problem ones but I'd say it's by far the worst one tied with Dead Hard. Nice.
that makes no sense to me.
so.. when i play Lithe with Dance with me and i lose the killer everytime because of this combo does it mean it needs to be nerfed? i mean it carries me right? so it needs to get remove from the game then.
i mean you can make the meta perks useless by not Tunneling, slugging or camping. why is that so hard to understand?
i barely get dsed now guess why..
by your logic and other people, pretty much every single perk needs to get nerfed because every perk can be usefull and carry you.
BBQ, POP, corrup, infectious, NOED etc also carry killers.
you guys dont get it, RUIN carried killers who didnt even deserved to win. they chased a survivor for 5 minutes and because other survivor couldnt to gens after 5 minutes there was just 1 gen done.
just a bit of logic is needed please thats not hard.
"i mean you can make the meta perks useless by not Tunneling, slugging or camping. why is that so hard to understand?"
Heres the thing people liked ruin because it meant you had time to play nice, had time to go after everyone, had time to not slug or camp unless it came down to the wire because of all the extra time ruin bought. You wonder why the meta perks are meta because it slows the killer down in a meta where every second matters being blanket immune for 60 seconds but also being able to pick yourself up is way too strong. My logic is that meta perks carry bad survivors now like it carried bad killers then. The difference between the good killer and bad killer then was tunneling with ruin the difference now is knowing when to tunnel because thats the new way to win.
Because having access to numbers you can compose them however you want.
For Ruin... we see it in 80% of games so many killers use it even if it mostly gives them 20 seconds.
For DS... we see at least 1 in every game but hey hey hey, let's count it per survivor to show stats appear lower, not that they ever cared about stats in a first place.
Haven't you said recently that you haven't played in like 2 months?
Ruin wasn't nerfed for being overused. It was changed to normalize gen times in actual games to make further changes to gen speed and generator related things overall, which is why gen time is much more consistent and toolboxes received such a massive change.
I mean all exhaust perks in general has already been nerfed, its really no reason for sprint burst or dead hard to get nerfed they are in a good state imo also a lot of survivors dont know how to use them that well either. DS sure is in need of a rework but BT is ok and only really strong in late game
It seems like you guys didn't stop to consider why so many killers felt the need to use it in the first place and instead just listened to the whining survivors saying its too hard to hit great skillchecks.
Also why did you avoid the topic of this discussion? It would be nice if the devs could actually communicate their thoughts with their community so we can try to better understand why you make the decisions you do.
What kind of investigation? Brainstorming designer "Is this perk unfun to play against?" because if you did that without asking the community about it, then you should do the same with DS, Unbreakable, etc. BECAUSE THEY ARE UNFUN TO PLAY AGAINST.
i will never understand the numbers, i mean it has sense at the lower ranks to not see meta perks mostly because survivors dont have them and play with what they have but at least in red ranks i always see from 2 to 4 Decisives strikes from 1 to 4 Sprint burst or Dead Hards and from 1 to 4 Borrow time, ITS TRUTH i noticed a major reduction Adrenalines, i dont see it that much as before but the rest every time
is way worse against SWF, because they usually bring 4 meta perks all of them so is kind of hard. so i still dont get how those mentioned perks are not being overused and not deserving a change, i think they could adress those perks.
DS is hidden behind a paywall tho, selfcare is on a free unlocked character
this was asked in the dev stream where they gave reasons for the Ruin nerf. the guy in the turquoise nail polish claimed that Lithe was used more often than DS, DH and so on. this is obviously a lie, but that's what he said. anyone can play about 3 games and see that it's a lie, yet here we are.
I'm not sure why my post keeps getting deleted in this thread but I'm going to try this again. How do you justify a perk like ruin getting nerfed but 'get out of jail free' perks like DS, borrowed and dead hard are not? Those perks can be used multiple times per match (save ds) because survivors were in the wrong position when they got caught. Where are the killer perks that grant insta down's when the killers screw up?
so what about the other perks?
this is completely wrong. Ruin was good at slow down but even before the rework a survivor could spawn right on top of it. it didnt even affect most survivors except newer ones because they could power through ruin by just hitting greats
As soon as people started trying they got 4ks? so exactly what they did now except then they had more time which means waiting out meta perks. H
Gen times have definitely been noticeably slowed.
The fact that I haven't been here in months, and just kind of wandered over because steam let me know there was some Leatherface changes; and DS, BT, and all that are STILL a problem, shows me that this game is still not in a good place for killers. They make some killers better but refuse to fix the problems that make playing against survivors UNFUN, You know...the reason numerous killers and a few perks got nerfed for? So good to know I will still be staying away from the game for the time being.
Since ruin was changed killers were given less wiggle room blanket immunity for 2 minutes in matches that last 8-10 was much stronger then in 10-15 minute matches which is why people are saying they should get nerfed to reflect that matches go faster now.
Also while im at it if killers average 1 minute chases on mid tier killers its feesable to have a 12 hook game in 10-15 minute matches not in 8-10 because by the time you get around to the later hooks they are already escaping.
Killers got so carried by "ruin" that they are planning a whole new mechanic for early game.
Survivors get so carried by the game being fast with second chance perks they have to add a mechanic to slow it enough to spread them to manageable levels.
Yep.
I was being sarcastic.
sound like BS to me
The only reason why I grow tired of seeing these post about the ruin nerf is simply because, not only do we come up with the true reason and clap back, but because BHVR sees what should have been nerfed in compensation but turn's a blind eye to it!
you guys do know that survivors been getting Nerf'd non stop since 2016 and when a nerf comes out for killers once maybe twice a year its the end of the world