Raziel
Raziel
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- Username
- Raziel
- Joined
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Comments
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@Nickenzie said:
The second survivor will automatically be downed in less than 60 seconds since the DW timer doesn't pause while in a chase and that is also 1 less survivor on a generator.Can you not see the problem here?
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@Nickenzie said:
Raziel said:60 seconds + free map wide BOND is a problem.
An injured survivor hit with a collateral Frenzy attack as part of a chain will keep themselves safe with their free BOND (coz they know someone else is being chased) and have plenty of time to work on a gen until their 60 seconds run out.
Survivors need counter play against the killer, they shouldn't be helpless when they are DW'd. Besides, think of his power as the Pig's but you get infinite RBT.
Infinite RBT that are easier to get rid of AND Legion is slower AND requires more hits to down people. Bad idea. Survivors will ignore DW and work on gens. BT will be insanely OP endgame. You are basically suggesting a huge nerf to Legion who is in a bad state already.
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When a killer main switches to survivor the average IQ of both sides increases.
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IMO all Legion needs is that Deep Wound timer can be replenished by the survivor but never fully removed, unless another survivor does it or maybe a medkit is used. Survivors will have to take breaks from what they are doing to replenish their timer or find another survivor to help them.
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60 seconds + free map wide BOND is a problem.
An injured survivor hit with a collateral Frenzy attack as part of a chain will keep themselves safe with their free BOND (coz they know someone else is being chased) and have plenty of time to work on a gen until their 60 seconds run out. -
@powerbats said:
@Raziel said:
Killers have different powers, some are better, others worse. Explain to me how, assuming all perks unlocked, picking any of the survivors has impact on your gameplay performance.
P3 Claudette says hi about impacting game performance.
Compare that with the pallete of powers on the killer side.
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@Shadoureon said:
@Severus_Swiggleton said:
As someone who plays both sides, I can say that both needs buffs in certain areas.The argument that "not all killers are meant to be viable" is garbage and should be thrown away. At least until there comes a point where "not all survivors are viable" either.
Survivors are literally skins once you unlocked all perks on a character. Gameplaywise you dont suddenly play different wether you play a Nea or a Feng. While Killer IS different because you have a completely different power. Acting as if all survivors shouldnt be viable just shows you have no idea how this game works...
@Raziel said:
@Shadoureon said:
First of all yes not every killer is in the same tier. They dont need too.What if survivors were also not in the same tier? What if teachables wasn't a thing?
Yeah because Enduring, Spirit Fury, Ruin and BBQ are all from the same killer aswell...
Killers have different powers, some are better, others worse. Explain to me how, assuming all perks unlocked, picking any of the survivors has impact on your gameplay performance.
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@powerbats said:
@Raziel said:
You do realise that the 4:1 ratio must be maintained in real time, right? Have you had math in school yet?
You do realise you completely ignored all the reasons given because gasp it'd mean your argument has holes in it and thus it failed the math test.
Also yes I had math in school further back than when you were even alive but I also learned logic while doing said math and common sense. It works wonders when you use both to their fullest since in any equation you can't focus solely on the desired outcome.
As any good mathematician will tell you when doing an equation, you have to account for all variables, not just the ones that your personal confirmation bias likes.
Now since I've just shown you a logical and mathematical equation you'll see that the factors I described in my post you so flippantly responded to show the fallacy of your post.
- I highly doubt that you are older than me. Or better educated.
- My argument against the OP still stands. When the devs balance the game they DO factor in player skill and compensate lack thereof with mechanics. Example: It's the result of the killer's better skill when a survivor is caught, yet they can bridge this skill gap by using DS. Passing one skill check is not the equivalent of outsmarting your opponent and downing them.
- You have not really presented an equation.
- The fact that you are leaning on ad hominem in your reply makes me think you ran out of arguments.
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@Boss said:
My god, this thread.
Y'all had a fun Christmas?I guess, according to you, people are unable to have different feelings about different topics. Why would my wonderful Christmas make this game be less of a piece of crap?
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@Vietfox said:
What drugs are you on? I meant that people play both roles but not equally.Then what does the "it's not like we are stuck with one role" argument stand for when replying to the statement that killer is more difficult to play and requires more skill to be successful compared to the opponents'?
@Vietfox said:
You do realize that most people play both roles right? It's not like we are stuck with one role. -
@Vietfox said:
@Raziel said:
@Vietfox said:
@Raziel said:
@M2Fream said:
Oooooof said:2 kills, 2 escapes should be fair, but right now every good killer gets 3-4 kills(4 if the hatch wasn't in the game)
That's just not true. Where are the statistics?
To add to that, even if that statistic was true, killer players almost always have a way higher skill than survivor players, because killer is harder to play. Most high rank survivors out there are simply bad. It is definitely a bad idea to compensate lack of skill with OP perks and mechanics but the devs are doing it anyway.
It's like adding weights to Usain Bolt's legs so the other runners have a chance to beat him.
You do realize that most people play both roles right? It's not like we are stuck with one role.
Most people play both sides yet we get fast games at a 4:1 ratio of the playerbase. Hmm....
Yeah totally makes sense. I guess the game must be balanced too, since we all play both sides, right?I didn't say equally, hmm...
Ah I see, your argument is that, If one side is underpowered, we should switch to the other. Are you trying to suggest a killer strike? Coz thats a big no no and the mods will hit you with the ban hammer.
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@powerbats said:
@Raziel said:
Most people play both sides yet we get fast games at a 4:1 ratio of the playerbase. Hmm....
Yeah totally makes sense. I guess the game must be balanced too, since we all play both sides, right?You do realize there's different time zones, time of day, work schedules, real life, family, vacations, being sick, school, playing different games etc.
I mean if we use common sense and logic we'd understand any or all of those or any combination of those things will affect lobby times.
You do realise that the 4:1 ratio must be maintained in real time, right? Have you had math in school yet?
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When you 4k and pip or double pip, do survivors also pip? If so, are they technically winning alongside of you?
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@DarkGGhost said:
@The_Crusader said:
DS, OOO and Dying Light ruined the game.I'd love to know how such bad ideas ever made it into the game.
The survivors want ways to keep playing after the killer down them and the DLC it's has good way to put in
Instead of asking for ways to prevent being downed, such as stealthier animations, better rewards for stealth play, more actual chase breakers not chase extenders etc.
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@Vietfox said:
@Raziel said:
@M2Fream said:
Oooooof said:2 kills, 2 escapes should be fair, but right now every good killer gets 3-4 kills(4 if the hatch wasn't in the game)
That's just not true. Where are the statistics?
To add to that, even if that statistic was true, killer players almost always have a way higher skill than survivor players, because killer is harder to play. Most high rank survivors out there are simply bad. It is definitely a bad idea to compensate lack of skill with OP perks and mechanics but the devs are doing it anyway.
It's like adding weights to Usain Bolt's legs so the other runners have a chance to beat him.
You do realize that most people play both roles right? It's not like we are stuck with one role.
Most people play both sides yet we get fast games at a 4:1 ratio of the playerbase. Hmm....
Yeah totally makes sense. I guess the game must be balanced too, since we all play both sides, right? -
@M2Fream said:
Oooooof said:2 kills, 2 escapes should be fair, but right now every good killer gets 3-4 kills(4 if the hatch wasn't in the game)
That's just not true. Where are the statistics?
To add to that, even if that statistic was true, killer players almost always have a way higher skill than survivor players, because killer is harder to play. Most high rank survivors out there are simply bad. It is definitely a bad idea to compensate lack of skill with OP perks and mechanics but the devs are doing it anyway.
It's like adding weights to Usain Bolt's legs so the other runners have a chance to beat him.
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@Boss said:
@anarchy753 said:
No it doesn't "build tension" or anything the devs keep saying is the intention, it's just annoying.If anything, the only tension comes from knowing at any point lag could cause you to die unjustly.
They actually also said it's meant to be annoying.
Why did they have to extend that concept to the entire game tho?
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@Adv4u said:
Raziel said:@Poweas said:
How can you introduce a killer so weak yet so ridiculously unfun to play against. All I've been getting is Legions using the lack of counterplay and playing so scummy that survivor has became completely unfun and unplayable. Honestly make it crystal clear what you intend on doing with the Legion and please buff them but do not leave them with no counterplay he's stupid and deserves to have some counterplay since all the killer has to do is just stand there and ur done for. I like what the devs are trying to do, but no just no. At least Spirit and Nurse aren't completely broken because they have no counterplay but at least they aren't easy.
Legion can be looped pretty easily even with his Frenzy. He is the weakest killer in the game.
Inb4 some fanboys start posting links of Tru3 playing against some scrubs.
He can win chases within 30 seconds easyxD
Without addons? I don't think so.
Also, Sprint Burst > Frenzy so that's 30 more seconds lost catching up, no matter if you use one (addonless) Frenzy or slow boat till you are close enough.And even 30 second chases is not enough. Let's see, you can't camp so you will have to hook each survivor 3 times. 3 x 4 x 30 = 6 minutes. You won't have the time.
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@Shadoureon said:
First of all yes not every killer is in the same tier. They dont need too.What if survivors were also not in the same tier? What if teachables wasn't a thing?
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@Master said:
They are taking a well deserved break after breaking the game before holidays. Just BHVR things...
"well deserved"
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@Poweas said:
How can you introduce a killer so weak yet so ridiculously unfun to play against. All I've been getting is Legions using the lack of counterplay and playing so scummy that survivor has became completely unfun and unplayable. Honestly make it crystal clear what you intend on doing with the Legion and please buff them but do not leave them with no counterplay he's stupid and deserves to have some counterplay since all the killer has to do is just stand there and ur done for. I like what the devs are trying to do, but no just no. At least Spirit and Nurse aren't completely broken because they have no counterplay but at least they aren't easy.Legion can be looped pretty easily even with his Frenzy. He is the weakest killer in the game.
Inb4 some fanboys start posting links of Tru3 playing against some scrubs.
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@Visionmaker said:
@Tsulan said:
@Visionmaker said:
Tsulan said:@Visionmaker said:
Tsulan said:
If the devs want to punish camping (being one of the features announced since the beginning), then let them.
They'll find out soon enough, that it was a terrible idea. When survivors on high ranks can't find lobbies, since ranking up as survivor is brain dead easy.
Oh yes, high rank killers, who almost never camp to begin with, will suddenly all drop rank because of this trivial change. What a tragedy.
"devs look, I camped with Nurse every game and depipped down to 15, this is ur fault #deadqueue Xddddd"
You make your jokes. But sometimes the killer has no other choice than to camp.
They won't be depipping from it unless they want to.
Just camp and depip all you want. It'll mean HR will be less of a cesspool, and survivors will finally have a reason to pip up. Campers will have an excuse to camp and bully newbies and smurfs. Win win.
Do you REALLY think that high ranks will play ANY different?
No. You were the one implying this in your first post. Let me refresh your memory:
@Tsulan said:
If the devs want to punish camping (being one of the features announced since the beginning), then let them.
They'll find out soon enough, that it was a terrible idea. When survivors on high ranks can't find lobbies, since ranking up as survivor is brain dead easy.I already stated in response to you that HR don't have campers to begin with, and thus nothing will change. And if protesting edgelords want to camp at HR (which they are probably not in to begin with), then they'll drop down to the cesspool where they belong.
Please don't put words into my mouth.
@Raziel said:
It's not a matter of making it less effective, it's a matter of providing incentive to leave the hook. At the moment, chases are the real big spender in terms of killer resources and a hook save can completely nullify your investment. Therefore, there is nothing to gain from ignoring the hook and protecting the gens.They have been nerfing chase for the last five patches. If you still do not see the benefit of leaving the hook, then it speaks for your skill as a player, not the design of the game.
The devs have been very kind for not directly touching camping as a whole.
How does getting consistent 4Ks, 50k BP and pips at R1 speak for my skill as a player?
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It's a poor implementation of a ranking system all together. But, as we see with the killer victory cube, vanishing act performed by the survivor victory cube followed by emblems, the devs do not care about making anything better. They need to push out patches because their business model demands it. It does not demand quality because we all were poor customers for getting roped into all of this.
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@Visionmaker said:
@Tsulan said:
@Visionmaker said:
Tsulan said:@Visionmaker said:
Tsulan said:
If the devs want to punish camping (being one of the features announced since the beginning), then let them.
They'll find out soon enough, that it was a terrible idea. When survivors on high ranks can't find lobbies, since ranking up as survivor is brain dead easy.
Oh yes, high rank killers, who almost never camp to begin with, will suddenly all drop rank because of this trivial change. What a tragedy.
"devs look, I camped with Nurse every game and depipped down to 15, this is ur fault #deadqueue Xddddd"
You make your jokes. But sometimes the killer has no other choice than to camp.
They won't be depipping from it unless they want to.
Just camp and depip all you want. It'll mean HR will be less of a cesspool, and survivors will finally have a reason to pip up. Campers will have an excuse to camp and bully newbies and smurfs. Win win.
Do you REALLY think that high ranks will play ANY different?
No. You were the one implying this in your first post. Let me refresh your memory:
@Tsulan said:
If the devs want to punish camping (being one of the features announced since the beginning), then let them.
They'll find out soon enough, that it was a terrible idea. When survivors on high ranks can't find lobbies, since ranking up as survivor is brain dead easy.I already stated in response to you that HR don't have campers to begin with, and thus nothing will change. And if protesting edgelords want to camp at HR (which they are probably not in to begin with), then they'll drop down to the cesspool where they belong.
Please don't put words into my mouth.
@Raziel said:
It's not a matter of making it less effective, it's a matter of providing incentive to leave the hook. At the moment, chases are the real big spender in terms of killer resources and a hook save can completely nullify your investment. Therefore, there is nothing to gain from ignoring the hook and protecting the gens.They have been nerfing chase for the last five patches. If you still do not see the benefit of leaving the hook, then it speaks for your skill as a player, not the design of the game.
The devs have been very kind for not directly touching camping as a whole.
How does getting consistent 4Ks, 50k BP and pips at R1 speak for my skill as a player?
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@purebalance said:
@Raziel said:
@F5arTheB5ard said:
Vortexas said:@F5arTheB5ard said:
How close to the hook do you have to be to start losing points?
8m for heavy loss 16 for a smaller loss.
Basically they are trying to hand survivors free escapes, because they keep being entitled bitches.
Do you honestly stay within 16 meters of a hooked survivor? I very rarely do, maybe thats part of the problem
That's usually where all the other survivors are tho.
No they aren't. You're just using that as a baddie claim to camp. If you literally see them there then duh you shouldn't leave. There's a big difference between camping and knowing someone is there. You're just claiming they're always there as an excuse which is a lie.
You can say what you want, i will stick to my strat and keep getting 4Ks.
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@DeadByFlashlight said:
@Raziel said:
@SenzuDuck said:
Wont really bother anyone - the more you do it the more you derank, and then you're just punishing newer players who don't care about patch notes and are just trying to learn the game.Bravo, Sir, you're a martyr.
You are also punishing the high ranks who now get long queues. You are also punishing the forum moderators who will be swimming in a sea of complaints about the matchmaking. You are also punishing the developers by proving that their solution to camping provides more incentive to camp rather than less.
Basically, everyone who entertains the delusion that DbD is not a game meant to be unbalanced by design so that 4 casuals have the chance of ganging up on a real gamer and winning, will get a rude awakening if everyone does what the OP suggested.
If gamers are expected to deal with super powered casuals, why not do what gamers do best and metagame the sh*t out of them?
Exactly. Just run that strategy until it doesnt pay off anymore because survivor adapt, then figure out another strategy. This is how online games are played
Ive been tunneling and hardcamping my way to R1 for 9 months in a row now. When does the adapting start? In DbD2?
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@Akuma said:
It's absolutely wayne. Please look into this mechanik. It needs tons of time to drop the pallet and e v e r y s i n g l e killer can hit through the pallet. I understand that pallets shouldnt be THAT safe but bro, pallets shouldnt be once with the death ....Every toxic killer can leave, you comments are not welcome and not relevant. thanks a lot.
If you are chased by the killer and want to get away, bring him to another survivor, killers enjoy survivors more than pallets. Bringing the killer to a pallet is just gonna upset him.
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@Eninya said:
Oh, really? And why didn't the killer kill me while I was taking a leak and AFK? What stopped him for attacking me?
Oh, right. Nothing.
What does that have to do with anything? Why weren't you going for your objectives instead of idling? Are you gonna blame you holding the game hostage on the killer now?
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@powerbats said:
@Raziel said:
Are you deliberately confusing perks that reward skillful play with perks that compensate for lack of skill?
STBFL rewards killers who keep track of their obsession and dish out hits on the other survivors only, whenever they get the chance during a chase.
PWYF rewards killers who keep track of their obsession and, in a multiple survivors chased scenario, can trigger the perk by temporarily switching targets.
Whispers is not a very good perk but it does reward spacial awareness and mental triangulation.
DS rewards survivors who have failed at hiding AND failed at chasing.
Self Care rewards survivors who have failed at hiding AND failed at chasing but were let go after 1 hit because the killer had to switch targets or shift his attention towards the gens.
Sprint Burst rewards survivors who failed to notice the killer closing in on them.
Adrenaline rewards survivors who have failed at hiding AND failed at chasing AND were helped by survivors who failed at hook rescues (circumstantial)Now who's deliberately confusing things as well as posting absolute nonsense.
DS rewards you for hitting that skillcheck and if the killer runs into you at the start or sees your the obsession they'll tunnel you. You want more looping then congrats everyone will loop non stop from now on because hey that's the only way to lose the killer.
Self Care rewards you for taking hits near the hook (hint there's an achievement for doing it), it rewards you for LOSING THE KILLER you know that thing you said a caught survivor is bad at. Don't go making excuses now as for why the killer lost that survivor since it isn't just to swap targets or do gens.
That survivor gets to use SC because they lost the killer, it doesn't reward failing at hiding or did you mysteriously forget someone sandbagging or dragging killer while running to other person? I mean it's not like there isn't a Doctor that shocks you out of hiding,
It's not like there's killers that're good at stealth and for sneaking up on people, it's not like Whispers doesn't help or gasp a Scratched Mirror Myers with 32m aura range. It's almost like amanda with her addon for seeing people and MYers with the Mirror completely ignore hdiing.
Sprint Burst rewards survivors for taking risks and staying on that gen till the last moment, it also rewards risky moves if done right. But hey lets ignore those pesky facts because they don't fit your narrative.
Adrenaline rewards survivors who take a chance that that perk will actually be there at the end of the game since if they get hooked and or sac'd 1st it was a wasted perk slot. Yet again more pesky facts that don't fit your narrative.
Both sides have good and bad perks that do different things and oh here's another perk that is risky asf but oftentimes screws you over but hey it won't ft your narrative.
NO MITHER.
Oh my, a skill check. If you never get caught DS is worthless. And it takes skill to not get caught. It takes merely equipping the perk to get a safety net.
Against good killers you will get to use SC if the killer lets you. I dare you to get away and use SC against me. You won't.
Explain to me what risk is involved in staying longer on the gen and using sprint burst since you are guaranteed to make up the lost distance gap EVERY TIME. Where is the risk?
Adrenaline rewards loopers aka players who are not skilled enough to avoid the killer.
If No Mither is the perk that allows survivors to show off actual skill then why is it not used 96% of the time, as SC is? Can we go ahead and say that 96% of the survivors are simply bad? Yes, yes we can.
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@SenzuDuck said:
Wont really bother anyone - the more you do it the more you derank, and then you're just punishing newer players who don't care about patch notes and are just trying to learn the game.Bravo, Sir, you're a martyr.
You are also punishing the high ranks who now get long queues. You are also punishing the forum moderators who will be swimming in a sea of complaints about the matchmaking. You are also punishing the developers by proving that their solution to camping provides more incentive to camp rather than less.
Basically, everyone who entertains the delusion that DbD is not a game meant to be unbalanced by design so that 4 casuals have the chance of ganging up on a real gamer and winning, will get a rude awakening if everyone does what the OP suggested.
If gamers are expected to deal with super powered casuals, why not do what gamers do best and metagame the sh*t out of them?
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@powerbats said:
@Raziel said:
I get 4ks at R1 most of the time. By the game's scoring system I am clearly better. But I also know that the difference is greater than the game makes it out to be simply because survivors have skill compensating perks where killers do not.
So killers don't have any of the following perks that rewards them for playing skillfully.
STBFL
PWYF
Whispers (if you can't find them with skill call 1-800-4ENTITY )I could go on but to say there's not help or perks that give skilled players more choices etc is nonsense.
Are you deliberately confusing perks that reward skillful play with perks that compensate for lack of skill?
STBFL rewards killers who keep track of their obsession and dish out hits on the other survivors only, whenever they get the chance during a chase.
PWYF rewards killers who keep track of their obsession and, in a multiple survivors chased scenario, can trigger the perk by temporarily switching targets.
Whispers is not a very good perk but it does reward spacial awareness and mental triangulation.
DS rewards survivors who have failed at hiding AND failed at chasing.
Self Care rewards survivors who have failed at hiding AND failed at chasing but were let go after 1 hit because the killer had to switch targets or shift his attention towards the gens.
Sprint Burst rewards survivors who failed to notice the killer closing in on them.
Adrenaline rewards survivors who have failed at hiding AND failed at chasing AND were helped by survivors who failed at hook rescues (circumstantial) -
@DeadByFlashlight said:
AdánAR said:@Global said:
The same can be said about killers going against survivors in red ranks. looping, Flashlights, Toxic Plays. It goes both ways not just one.
Looping it's part of the game lol you can't complain about it i mean ######### dude. Red ranks plays like reaching rank 1 was the greatest trophy in the world (but no, it's only a trophy on steam). Flashlight helps you for saves. Toxic plays? What do you mean?
Just like tunneling camping and slugging is part of the game. Those strategies help you to kill survivors. Toxic play? What do you mean?
With the difference that tunneling and camping are much easier to counter than looping.
Survivor gameplay: easy to pull off, hard to counter. It's why DbD is a casuals fest.
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@SenzuDuck said:
@Eguzky said:
'This game is casual' is a lousy excuse for lazy, one-sided balance to appease the larger half of the playerbase and completely screw over every single Killer player.
The Devs need to grow some balls and fix the game instead of sit around scared of the screechers that want to keep Survivors as cake-walks.It's completely subjective, while you seem to struggle with anything that isn't holding your hand everyone else is doing just fine. Just because you think you're getting screwed over, or you don't like things doesn't mean everyone else is bothered by it.
I have 2300 hours, I play both sides and almost nothing annoys me in this game because when I'm playing killer and I mess up that's on me, not the survivors, If I die as a survivor then I was probably being too altruistic and that's fineeee. You don't have to 4K every match and you don't have to escape every match.When you play as killer and you messed up then you would think that your skill didn't stack up well against the survivor's skill. In reality, their skill is boosted artificially by their perks and OP mechanics. It's like a duel where you get a wooden sword instead of a metal one. You can still win, but it's an unfair setup.
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@SenzuDuck said:
@Raziel said:
@SenzuDuck said:
I mean, you could run towards them and smack them out?I don't get why so many people get upsetti spaghetti over ground humpers, if they're triggering you, it's working!
The tbagging is not the upsetting part. The upsetting part is that the game is broken and the survivors know they will stay OP because the devs will never dare turn away their rather huge cash cow of casuals.
Tbagging is the way they flaunt this fact into their opponent's face.
and no, you're looking way too into it, survivors are not "OP" at all, maybe at one time with insta flashlights, bnps and loops, but flashlights are gone, bnps are useless and theyre constantly adjusting pallets and maps to make them easier for killers to navigate. Survivors aren't OP, you're just not as good as you think you are.
Yes, this game is for casuals, it always has been. If you want something competitive go play league or overwatch.
I get 4ks at R1 most of the time. By the game's scoring system I am clearly better. But I also know that the difference is greater than the game makes it out to be simply because survivors have skill compensating perks where killers do not.
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@Eninya said:
I did one for ~48 minutes. The killer was there the entire time watching because he grabbed me.I used the bathroom twice and watched a movie in the background. lel
Basically you are admitting to holding the game hostage. You had gens and gates as an alternative.
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Yes. Everything that makes sense is too hard to implement.
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@GrannyonAcid said:
Never run into toxic killers myself. Never find myself getting camped or tunneled. Wonder if it's because I'm the only survivor that's not messing with him. A lot of your problems could be solved yourself. Maybe don't teabag the killers. Maybe don't loop a pallet more then a few times before moving onto another spot on the map. Maybe then the killer won't want to face camp you.If you delay him on a chase for a long time because you looped him to death. Why would anyone in their right mind let you off the hook? If it took 5 minutes to finally get you on the hook and the game lasts 6 minutes. Seems like he should probably make sure you die. Otherwise he ain't ever got a chance of catching you again.
This person gets it. The killer has to get that first kill ASAP or else he wont have any chance defending the gens. Just make sure you are not the first one chased and you will do more than well.
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@AdánAR said:
I'm on red ranks now and i remembered why I don't like to be there: Tunnelers, sweaty killers with ebony mori, people who facecamps you for "looping them" or "stunning them" or "tbagging" (even that isn't a good reason, I play killer too and i never tunnel a tbagger)... I mean, c'mon killer mains if you gonna cry for stupid reasons then don't play the game. It's so boring to play against dudes like these.How about if I camp you because I caught you at 5 gens and it simply is effective. Moreover, the other 3 survivors are statistically very likely to come swarm the hook anyway. Why would I not set myself up for an easy 4k?
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@Visionmaker said:
@Raziel said:
@SenzuDuck said:
@Raziel said:
@SenzuDuck said:
@Raziel said:
@SenzuDuck said:
I'd argue that hooking someone and then standing there as still as a pole isn't doing your objective, and the defence so many killers give as to why they camp the hook is "Theres survivors close" therefore you wont even incur the point reduction, thus making this a moot point.Your objective is to kill survivors.
After you hooked a survivor you have 3 options:
1) Stay near the hook and secure the sacrifice -> you will have to give up some gen time and hope to turn the game around after the (preferably first) survivor is dead
2) Go protect the gens -> you won't be able to regress all repairs the survivors have made but they will be able to rescue the hooked survivor and heal him, completely nullifying the time you invested in chasing and hooking.
3) Try to catch another survivor -> you may be able to start a snowball effect but you will still lose gen time and invested chase time (the hooked survivor gets rescued)Basically, the most solid investment is option 1. If you hook someone at 5 gens there is no reason to leave. If you hook someone at 1 gens there is no reason to leave.
Considering most survivors, especially at high rank and especially SWF will try to rush the hook regardless of you camping, you may even get chases, hits and additional downs by camping the hook.
In my experience, playing at R1, I get more BP and more kills by camping than when I don't simply because survivors are over-altruistic.
Out of curiosity, do you think matches are too short?
Nope, they seem to extend a lot when I camp. If I don't, the gens pop like mad. The moment I camp someone, gen progress stops.
I don't have an issue with camping, I'm ok enough to hold my own without doing it, but when it comes to end game then sometimes securing that kill is expected.
I don't however like the thought of camping at the start, it promotes horrible gameplay from both sides, which is why, if it's end game, the points wont be much as youll be doing it for lesser time, presumably, but it's probably only really punishing if you do it from the start, you're the exact reason this update is coming, not survivors.
You are free to like and dislike whatever. Tunneling and camping is the most effective way to play right now.
Let's be honest. They'd rather lower emblems than actually making tunneling and camping less effective. They want killers to be able to choose to camp.
And god knows that there would be a revolt if they actually nerfed it.
The devs already know they deliberately allowed camping to be a viable tool, without it contributing anything positive to this chase based game.
It's not a matter of making it less effective, it's a matter of providing incentive to leave the hook. At the moment, chases are the real big spender in terms of killer resources and a hook save can completely nullify your investment. Therefore, there is nothing to gain from ignoring the hook and protecting the gens.
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@SenzuDuck said:
I mean, you could run towards them and smack them out?I don't get why so many people get upsetti spaghetti over ground humpers, if they're triggering you, it's working!
The tbagging is not the upsetting part. The upsetting part is that the game is broken and the survivors know they will stay OP because the devs will never dare turn away their rather huge cash cow of casuals.
Tbagging is the way they flaunt this fact into their opponent's face.
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@SenzuDuck said:
@Raziel said:
@SenzuDuck said:
@Raziel said:
@SenzuDuck said:
I'd argue that hooking someone and then standing there as still as a pole isn't doing your objective, and the defence so many killers give as to why they camp the hook is "Theres survivors close" therefore you wont even incur the point reduction, thus making this a moot point.Your objective is to kill survivors.
After you hooked a survivor you have 3 options:
1) Stay near the hook and secure the sacrifice -> you will have to give up some gen time and hope to turn the game around after the (preferably first) survivor is dead
2) Go protect the gens -> you won't be able to regress all repairs the survivors have made but they will be able to rescue the hooked survivor and heal him, completely nullifying the time you invested in chasing and hooking.
3) Try to catch another survivor -> you may be able to start a snowball effect but you will still lose gen time and invested chase time (the hooked survivor gets rescued)Basically, the most solid investment is option 1. If you hook someone at 5 gens there is no reason to leave. If you hook someone at 1 gens there is no reason to leave.
Considering most survivors, especially at high rank and especially SWF will try to rush the hook regardless of you camping, you may even get chases, hits and additional downs by camping the hook.
In my experience, playing at R1, I get more BP and more kills by camping than when I don't simply because survivors are over-altruistic.
Out of curiosity, do you think matches are too short?
Nope, they seem to extend a lot when I camp. If I don't, the gens pop like mad. The moment I camp someone, gen progress stops.
I don't have an issue with camping, I'm ok enough to hold my own without doing it, but when it comes to end game then sometimes securing that kill is expected.
I don't however like the thought of camping at the start, it promotes horrible gameplay from both sides, which is why, if it's end game, the points wont be much as youll be doing it for lesser time, presumably, but it's probably only really punishing if you do it from the start, you're the exact reason this update is coming, not survivors.
You are free to like and dislike whatever. Tunneling and camping is the most effective way to play right now.
The killer has to outskill not just the survivor players but the perks and mechanics they get to use with no skill investment. A survivor who does not make any mistakes is impossible to catch with anything other than the nurse.
As such, it is way more effective to focus on steamrolling through the high rank low skill survivors who got there solely through use of their safety nets. Overall, the game will still feel unfair especially when you do win because:
you have to deliberately make mistakes which reward your opponents to be able to stay competitive (e.g. getting hit by pallets, allowing unhooks and heals to protect the gens)
you have to get good at countering perks which require no skill investment from your opponent (e.g. decisive strike, borrowed time, self care, sprint burst)
your opponents may get a lot of bp and even pip despite not surviving and playing poorly
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@F5arTheB5ard said:
Vortexas said:@F5arTheB5ard said:
How close to the hook do you have to be to start losing points?
8m for heavy loss 16 for a smaller loss.
Basically they are trying to hand survivors free escapes, because they keep being entitled bitches.
Do you honestly stay within 16 meters of a hooked survivor? I very rarely do, maybe thats part of the problem
That's usually where all the other survivors are tho.
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@SenzuDuck said:
@Raziel said:
@SenzuDuck said:
I'd argue that hooking someone and then standing there as still as a pole isn't doing your objective, and the defence so many killers give as to why they camp the hook is "Theres survivors close" therefore you wont even incur the point reduction, thus making this a moot point.Your objective is to kill survivors.
After you hooked a survivor you have 3 options:
1) Stay near the hook and secure the sacrifice -> you will have to give up some gen time and hope to turn the game around after the (preferably first) survivor is dead
2) Go protect the gens -> you won't be able to regress all repairs the survivors have made but they will be able to rescue the hooked survivor and heal him, completely nullifying the time you invested in chasing and hooking.
3) Try to catch another survivor -> you may be able to start a snowball effect but you will still lose gen time and invested chase time (the hooked survivor gets rescued)Basically, the most solid investment is option 1. If you hook someone at 5 gens there is no reason to leave. If you hook someone at 1 gens there is no reason to leave.
Considering most survivors, especially at high rank and especially SWF will try to rush the hook regardless of you camping, you may even get chases, hits and additional downs by camping the hook.
In my experience, playing at R1, I get more BP and more kills by camping than when I don't simply because survivors are over-altruistic.
Out of curiosity, do you think matches are too short?
Nope, they seem to extend a lot when I camp. If I don't, the gens pop like mad. The moment I camp someone, gen progress stops.
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@SenzuDuck said:
I'd argue that hooking someone and then standing there as still as a pole isn't doing your objective, and the defence so many killers give as to why they camp the hook is "Theres survivors close" therefore you wont even incur the point reduction, thus making this a moot point.Your objective is to kill survivors.
After you hooked a survivor you have 3 options:
1) Stay near the hook and secure the sacrifice -> you will have to give up some gen time and hope to turn the game around after the (preferably first) survivor is dead
2) Go protect the gens -> you won't be able to regress all repairs the survivors have made but they will be able to rescue the hooked survivor and heal him, completely nullifying the time you invested in chasing and hooking.
3) Try to catch another survivor -> you may be able to start a snowball effect but you will still lose gen time and invested chase time (the hooked survivor gets rescued)Basically, the most solid investment is option 1. If you hook someone at 5 gens there is no reason to leave. If you hook someone at 1 gens there is no reason to leave.
Considering most survivors, especially at high rank and especially SWF will try to rush the hook regardless of you camping, you may even get chases, hits and additional downs by camping the hook.
In my experience, playing at R1, I get more BP and more kills by camping than when I don't simply because survivors are over-altruistic.
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@powerbats said:
@Raziel said:
90 Posts and I can only count strawman arguments. Sadly, this did not turn out to be a real debate. Might as well call it quits. Nobody has even tried to touch the most compelling argument against Self Care:If you really are good at juking the killer, you WILL NEVER GET HIT. And that means that Self Care is a complete waste. If you expect getting hit, then you admit you are not good at juking the killer. You use self care because it compensates for you lacking this skill.
Speaking of Straw Mans, we'll use your logic here against you.
If you're a really good killer that survivor won't get away to use Self Care in the 1st place. That means that if they get away YOU SUCK AT KILLER !!!!!
There see how your logic just blew a very big hole in your whole argument.
You are basically saying that killers who do not tunnel are bad.
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@Lowbei said:
Camping is legit. This change will not affect gameplay and will in fact create more camping just for giggles to see the additional salt.Survivors will still swarm hooks and help with the decaying emblem
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@purebalance said:
@DemonDaddy said:
Also survivors should treat the killer as if 1st hook is the only hook. Don't get comfortable because of the multi hook system. Trust me you will do much better if your cautious compared to rushed and reckless.Then why have the ability to unhook. Triple the hook time if we're supposed to treat the hook as dead.
So you are tempted to go to the hook and the killer can ambush you there.
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@purebalance said:
@Raziel said:
@purebalance said:
Sitting there staring at them is NOT securing a kill. Gotta love when a baby who does this dc's when a rescue happens anyway. Unless you're SWF, camping literally destroys most groups because there is no communication to ignore the hook and baby survivors say [BAD WORD] the team rather than the baby killer and kill themselves on the hook.EVERYONE gets far less points when you camp to begin with yet the survivors are punished more for it. How about you get good and not need to camp. Big difference when someone is clearly right there, but 99% of the time it isn't the case and isn't how the game was meant to be played.
If I play at R1 and regularly camp the survivors I down, earn between 40 and 60k BP, get 1-2 pips and 4k 9 out of 10 matches why would I change the way I play? It seems to be working, right?
That's a flat out lie. All of the top streamers have shown this. You're pretty much going to get 20k if you somehow get a 4k which camping at rank 1 will almost never net you a 4k. You lose hunting points, you lose the points from multiple hooks, you lose the points from deviousness because you're obviously not using your power as much if you're 1 hooking everyone because you camped, you lose brutality because you're obviously once again only hitting typically 2 per survivor unless they try to save which most won't when you camp at rank 1 and you're not breaking objects since less pallets are dropped.
Sit and lie more. Also with the change as is, you'll probably barely black pip if you camp because you'll be having chase points penalty for every second you sit there.
A screenshot of my most recent game:
https://imgur.com/a/SZquPDPI camped the first two as soon as they were caught, slugged the 3rd so the 4th can't get the hatch. With BBQ I made 59K BP.
Notice how everyone has Self Care.
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@purebalance said:
Sitting there staring at them is NOT securing a kill. Gotta love when a baby who does this dc's when a rescue happens anyway. Unless you're SWF, camping literally destroys most groups because there is no communication to ignore the hook and baby survivors say [BAD WORD] the team rather than the baby killer and kill themselves on the hook.EVERYONE gets far less points when you camp to begin with yet the survivors are punished more for it. How about you get good and not need to camp. Big difference when someone is clearly right there, but 99% of the time it isn't the case and isn't how the game was meant to be played.
If I play at R1 and regularly camp the survivors I down, earn between 40 and 60k BP, get 1-2 pips and 4k 9 out of 10 matches why would I change the way I play? It seems to be working, right?