Raziel
Raziel
About
- Username
- Raziel
- Joined
- Visits
- 54
- Last Active
Comments
-
@Peanits said:
Primarily killer player. I don't see what the big deal is with self care. If I lost them and they spend the next 24 seconds (32 on the PTB) healing, oh well, I lost them, they deserve it. I failed, I lost them, I don't see why my hand should be held so they can't heal when it's my fault I lost them. They could just as easily go to another survivor and heal up twice as fast.If they're healing mid-chase, not only does it greatly reduce the distance they gain and cause them to use pallets faster, but you can easily counter that with caulrophobia.
When I play survivor, I don't run it. It's a waste of a perk slot. Half the time someone comes sprinting over trying to heal you anyway. The only time it really matters is when you're the only survivor left.
That is true. Having self care as the last survivor guarantees you a win. There is no skill involved either, it's completely dependant on whether the killer wants to play hatch standoff or not.
Basically, you are reinforcing my argument that the perk compensates for lack of player skill.
I'm ignoring the killer part because, again, it is not the focus of the discussion.
One more thing: explain why Self Care is used 96% of the time.
-
@fcc2014 said:
@Raziel so you want to turn this into a compensation thread because you don't like self care? Ok why did you buy the game? Did you see it streamed or heard about it? You knew what the game was before you got here. It is your statements in this thread that make people laugh at killer complaints not that they are sometimes valid and reasonable but it is statements like yours that automatically make people laugh and disregard everything. Maybe this game isn't for you. Many people play this game and wipe out lobbies on a regular. What is different from how they play and how you play? Figure out the problem with how you play as a killer instead of spending time worrying about a perk in the game.Find them, Down them, Hook them Repeat.
Again, I am not looking at this from a killer's perspective at all. Keep trying to start a flame war and I will flag you for off topic and baiting.
-
@altruistic said:
@Raziel said:
@Dwight_Fairfield said:
altruistic said:Imagine believing that you ican “never get hit” as a Survivor and not be trolling. What a fantasy world to live in.
Still waiting on you to show us your pro, stealth, never get hit survivor.
Please show us all how great of a Survivor you are. I think many of us would love to see it, or are you going to ignore my request again?
You might as well ask for next week's winning lottery numbers. He won't give you what he doesn't have.
OoO + Sole Survivor + Urban Evasion + Lightweight.
Let's see a video. Heck I would even take a screenshot of your Survivor rank tbh. Still waiting.
How about you test it yourself, instead of believing me? Play 20 games with Self Care and 20 games without. See where you end up.
EDIT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwLTqxl_JKo
A bit older but you get the idea. -
You are proving that the game marketed as survival horror should actually be labeled as racing.
(and many of us should be refunded) -
@Dwight_Fairfield said:
altruistic said:Imagine believing that you ican “never get hit” as a Survivor and not be trolling. What a fantasy world to live in.
Still waiting on you to show us your pro, stealth, never get hit survivor.
Please show us all how great of a Survivor you are. I think many of us would love to see it, or are you going to ignore my request again?
You might as well ask for next week's winning lottery numbers. He won't give you what he doesn't have.
OoO + Sole Survivor + Urban Evasion + Lightweight.
-
@SoylentPixie said:
@Raziel said:
90 Posts and I can only count strawman arguments. Sadly, this did not turn out to be a real debate. Might as well call it quits. Nobody has even tried to touch the most compelling argument against Self Care:A REAL debate literally consists of opposing arguments. You don't want someone to change your mind you want people to agree with you, and like so many others on this forum, not agreeing with you equates to nobody being good enough.
The 'compelling' argument is YOUR view point. This isn't to say that the people who oppose you are right and you are wrong, but the fact that you call this a debate and then make a sweeping generalisation that every opposing argument is a 'straw man' argument, pretty much looses any credibility your viewpoint has.
If you just want to say that SC is bad and you don't like it, then just say it, don't ask people to 'change your mind' just so you can crap all over their posts because not enough people are agreeing with you.
Go ahead and pick a post out of this entire thread that counters my argument. I will wait.
Remember, my main point is that a survivor who is a pro at stealth, ending chases, juking and avoiding the killer in general has absolutely no use for Self Care as they will never get hit. A survivor who fails in any of those can artificially compensate for his lack of skill by using the perk.
-
@powerbats said:
@Raziel said:
90 Posts and I can only count strawman arguments. Sadly, this did not turn out to be a real debate. Might as well call it quits. Nobody has even tried to touch the most compelling argument against Self Care:If you really are good at juking the killer, you WILL NEVER GET HIT. And that means that Self Care is a complete waste. If you expect getting hit, then you admit you are not good at juking the killer. You use self care because it compensates for you lacking this skill.
Speaking of Straw Mans, we'll use your logic here against you.
If you're a really good killer that survivor won't get away to use Self Care in the 1st place. That means that if they get away YOU SUCK AT KILLER !!!!!
There see how your logic just blew a very big hole in your whole argument.
My main argument is that I am a good survivor and I do not need Self Care at all. It has nothing to do with playing Killer.
-
90 Posts and I can only count strawman arguments. Sadly, this did not turn out to be a real debate. Might as well call it quits. Nobody has even tried to touch the most compelling argument against Self Care:
If you really are good at juking the killer, you WILL NEVER GET HIT. And that means that Self Care is a complete waste. If you expect getting hit, then you admit you are not good at juking the killer. You use self care because it compensates for you lacking this skill.
-
@chococri said:
Raziel said:@SenzuDuck said:
Let people use what they want, simple.
I am not saying don't use it. I am saying don't pretend it's not OP.
It's not. When you use it you make a lot of noise and gives to the killer a clue of where are you at. Are you sick of that perk? Use Thanatophobia and Franklin's Desmise.
Read the main post. I can work around SC just fine as killer. I analysed it from a survivor's perspective and concluded that it supplements lack of survivor skill. Regardless of whether the killer is skilled enough to counter it it makes the game unfair. You have to face the killer not let your perks do it.
I swear it's like nobody can read anything longer than 2 lines.
-
@SenzuDuck said:
Let people use what they want, simple.I am not saying don't use it. I am saying don't pretend it's not OP.
-
@fcc2014 said:
@Raziel said:
Title.Change my mind.
P.S. Self Care usage is officially declared at ~24%. That means that, on average, 1 survivor will have it each game and the other 3 won't. Do a little check for yourself and make a note of how many SCs you can see each game.
I decided to help you out a bit.
You, sir, won the internet.
-
@SenzuDuck said:
@xxaggieboyxx said:
ZombieGenesis said:@xxaggieboyxx said:
You shouldn't need to bring a perk to counter an extremely crutch survivor perk. Survivor perks shouldn't be so crutch that almost everyone uses it.
Also so instead of complaining about noed or camping maybe just cleanse totems or do generators but hey that's none of my business
That's also not really how nurses calling works. You don't just put it on and know where everyone is healing. Good survivors will use SC outside of your terror radius. NC works best on characters whose terror radius you can reduce(like Mike Meyers). It's still a good perk but it's pretty easily avoidable.
EXACTLY and all survivors can run self care and make nurses calling completed useless as soon as you hear the terror radius. Seems like every strong killer perk has a hard counter to make it completely useless while all strong survivor perks have a counter that can be countered if that makes any sense. And some don't even have a counter and they are just strong
If a survivor is injured, and they've managed to outplay you, juke, and hide, they deserve to heal. The hard counter to Self-care is to not lose the survivor, lmfao.
If they're injured you've probably just been right next to them, lol.
Why? Shouldn't they be hiding from the killer in the first place? Them getting hit is their punishment for being caught and the killer's reward for managing to chase them well enough to land a hit.
Their reward for evading the killer after being hit should only be continuing to live. Why would they get to completely revert their first mistake as well? The killer definitely does NOT get back the time he invested in that chase.
-
@ChesterTheMolester said:
SC is inferior to Bond atleast for solo players.Either 96% of the players are SWF or 96% of the players are bad for using the inferior perk. In fact, since SWF can coordinate rather well, I would argue they would also benefit more from Bond than Self Care. Congrats, you just proved me right.
-
@Rebel_Raven said:
One of the major objectives of a survivor is to buy time to get generators done.
Self care helps buy that time. It's good to waste the killer's time as much as possible.It also works to the killer's advantage if they capitalize as certain perks counter it, and it also gives the killer more time to hook people.
Asking survivors to please make the game easier on you via insulting them to stop using self care will probably fall on deaf ears.
Lets be real. Survivors are less likely to follow the rules of killers than vice versa. Killers have shown some courtesies from time to time.Hiding doesn't work too well, flat out running doesn't work too well, lithe is getting screwed by dwindling vaulting points. Stealth is not as easy as all that either, and the slow go route offers the least reward for the risk.
Sure, lets take more tools from the survivors to make it harder for them to survive. Pretending otherwise is pretty laughable. Even if some people can do it, aptitudes vary.And no, I'm not a survivor main . I play both sides, and not much bothers me aside from SWF.
The problem I see in your argument is that the game, at the very least, promises stealth and then fails to deliver. Should BHVR not fix that first, instead of letting it be broken and giving us other kinds of crutches to stay alive?
-
@Dreamnomad said:
@Raziel said:
Title.Change my mind.
Killers crying about survivor perks are bad. Change my mind.
As a killer, I can work around survivors having Self Care and even use it to my advantage by making them waste time healing.
As a survivor I notice a considerable difference in match performance when using Self Care compared to when I do not. Simply put, having the ability to heal one's self frees me of having to plan my moves and devise strategies because, when combined with looping, Self Care allows the correction of every mistake I would make and prevents the Killer from getting me.
I do not need to worry about playing mind games with killers such as the Nurse or the Spirit because I can take one hit, enjoy my free Sprint Burst to the next pallet, loop till the gates are open or they give up and then heal up. If they lose me, it takes at most 30 seconds for me to get back into a position where I am guaranteed safety for 1 more mistake or a clear escape if the hatch or gates are available.
I am clearly not the only one who noticed this given that Self Care is encountered 96% of the time. This is not surprising since, by equipping this single perk, I can negate a portion of the game that would otherwise match my personal skill to the killer's personal skill.
By having the perk, it does not matter if I am of lower skill, by sticking to the simple plan of try something risky -> mess up -> loop -> selfcare / be helped by people with selfcare I have a clear shot at victory.
To summarise, in case you missed it, my point is not from a killer's perspective exclusively. I find the perk worse from the survivor perspective, in fact.
-
@CoolAKn said:
Several people use Self Care because they don't have confidence in their team, or they like the independence it provides. I personally don't care for Self Care, I would rather equip Pharmacy and find a med kit to self heal instead.96% = several?
-
@Orion said:
@Raziel said:
Title.Change my mind.
P.S. Self Care usage is officially declared at ~24%. That means that, on average, 1 survivor will have it each game and the other 3 won't. Do a little check for yourself and make a note of how many SCs you can see each game.
That's not right. It's 24% of all perk slots. There are 4 perk slots per player, and only 1 of them can be SC, so the actual percentage is 96%.
I know that, but that was not the number we were officially given. If a perk is used 96% of the time then it clearly needs more nerfs.
-
@Vietfox said:
Skemooo said:why should i climb ranks when i have more fun at rank 10? rank 1 games on both sides are not enjoyable at all..if i could earn more BP or shards by staying at top 5 ranks ill happily endure some of the toxic plays at rank 1.. other than that im not having a good time in rank 1.. will address this or the only solution is to derank and make otehr players who were properly playing suffer?
I don't really know what's the problem on having tougher matches, i personally have more fun when i have to face challenging killers/survivors.
Rank 1 is not difficult to reach at all, so i don't think we should be rewarded for that unless they change the rank system.Lower rank survivors are fun to play against, because their lack of skill is compensated by game mechanics such as "equip and pass 1 skill check to fix completely messing up" perks.
When their skill levels catch up to the killer's, they still have access to these mechanics which further reinforce their overall performance beyond what killers can defeat with pure skill alone.
Meanwhile, BHVR is too busy laughing at the "asymmetrical games are impossible to balance" meme.
-
@xcottonx said:
I think that Sole Survivor should also block the reading ability of the doctors hallucinations in 24, 48 and 72 meters, because it is very frustrating if there is no counter to it.
I hope the Devs read this thread!You don't get hallucinations if you are at Madness 1. If you are trying to stealth the Doc and you already let him push you past Madness 1 then you already failed.
-
The only incentive to stay at R1 is when you can't be bothered with deranking. Luckily the game will help you derank without sacrificing BP if you camp hooks after the next patch.
Either way, survivors will be the same at mid to high ranks. Since it is so easy for them to rank up without doing anything, most of the times even without surviving, there is no noticeable skill difference between R10 and R1 survivors.
-
And survivors are rewarded points for getting hit too.
-
@Dragonredking said:
You where playing with your swf buddy, if you ended up letting him 3 gen close by together at the end it's your own damn fault.
You literaly can coordinate with your pal wich gen to do so that you have gen as far apart from each otherAnd then they held the game hostage by not committing to the gens and always running away to heal (because heal sources are infinite).
-
@DeadByFlashlight said:
@Raziel said:
@DeadByFlashlight said:
@Vietfox said:
DeadByFlashlight said:Working as intended.
Luckily not all killers are meant to be trash-tier and there are actually a few you can use
@DeadByFlashlight
#########, u call the hag trash? She's actually good.Read again, she is one of the few killers that are not meant to be trash tier
Still, she gets rekt by genrush sadly
Isn't it sad that some killers are "meant" to be trash tier? Can we simply accept the devs saying that "not all killers are meant to be competitive"? Are there any survivors not meant to be competitive?
Well there is nothing you can do beside not buying DLCs anymore. Sadly killers are only 20% of the community and as long as survivors are gonna pay, they wont notice a whole in their wallet
I am sure that mentioning the game's weak points will help any competitors who plan on making similar games avoid making the same mistakes.
-
@HP150 said:
@MhhBurgers said:
@TheDarkLycan said:
Love how they buffed her cooldown even though they said they wouldn'tBecause they have no clue what they're doing. Her power would still be weak compared to billy or even nurse, even if she had no cooldown.
That's honestly what they need to do. Get rid of the cooldown and let her charge her power while moving. Then lower her to Nurse speed. Make her basically HAVE to use her power to get a hit, like a different flavor of Nurse.
Both would be high skillcap / low skill floor Killers. Except she can be juked in different ways (standing still, crouching, doubling back, etc) as opposed to Nurse and still suffers from the weakness of having to obey the laws of terrain / pallets / windows. Upside would be that she doesn't suffer from fatigue and obviously she has the whole invisibility thing going for her until the survivors notice her jet engine sounds.
You got it wrong there, killer powers should have a disadvantage equal to the advantage they bring. Compared to the meta survivor perks which are 100% beneficial and their items (their "power" so to say) which also do not have any disadvantages, the killer powers have to be this way, otherwise the game would be balanced and casuals would stop playing it because they would have a hard time winning.
-
@Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said:
Raziel said:Whenever I hook a survivor at 5 gens and 3 more pop up to rescue and end up getting floored. Basically, I get a good laugh in almost all my R1 games. Why do they never learn?
And then they throw some delicious salt at you.
"Why the facecamp?"
"Lol facecamping noob"
"Killer got so triggered he decided to facecamp xD"One guy asked me why I camped him since all he did once spotted was run to a pallet and drop it and got downed there. I hooked him up at 5 gens right next to my Ruin totem. Who wouldn't camp in that situation?
-
Whenever I hook a survivor at 5 gens and 3 more pop up to rescue and end up getting floored. Basically, I get a good laugh in almost all my R1 games. Why do they never learn?
-
@DeadByFlashlight said:
@Vietfox said:
DeadByFlashlight said:Working as intended.
Luckily not all killers are meant to be trash-tier and there are actually a few you can use
@DeadByFlashlight
#########, u call the hag trash? She's actually good.Read again, she is one of the few killers that are not meant to be trash tier
Still, she gets rekt by genrush sadly
Isn't it sad that some killers are "meant" to be trash tier? Can we simply accept the devs saying that "not all killers are meant to be competitive"? Are there any survivors not meant to be competitive?
-
@Orion said:
@Mc_Harty said:
@Orion said:
Ranks are one of various indicators of skill, but you mustn't rely on rank alone to ascertain someone's skill. To rely on any one thing (play time, character level, prestige, etc.) to try to ascertain skill is foolish, but to ignore those things is equally foolish.Last I checked you're the one that brought up rank as a measurement of skill.
All I'm saying is that there are more cons then pros to ranking up in this game.
One of them, yes. You're more likely to find opponents of your skill level if you don't derank than if you do. That's one of the reasons why people shouldn't derank.
And all I'm saying is that the system can't work if people abuse it.
It's like driving. You have people on the far left lane who cut across 2 lanes of traffic because they want to go to the far right lane and vice-versa, causing massive back-ups behind them, whereas if they'd just gone to the lanes they actually wanted/needed, traffic would flow more easily.Rank can't work while people intentionally derank, no matter what the devs do. If the streamers don't like their rank then they can stop playing well.
In a game where, when all survivors die (which means the killer got a full victory), and then EVERYONE can rank up, how do you decide who really won, and why are the survivors pushed up in rank so that this killer has a chance to face them again when he is clearly better?
-
@Orion said:
@Raziel said:
@Orion said:
@Raziel said:
@Tsulan said:
@Orion said:
@Tsulan said:
@Orion said:
@powerbats said:
I've been watching small streamers pretty much exclusively and they're great.When you're not doing it for the money, you're doing it because you want to. People who do something because they want to are a lot better than the ones who do it for the money.
Getting big nowadays is equal parts luck and budget. Some of them may be good at the games they play, but so are a bunch of other people who stream and have had little to no success.
I´d say it has also something to do with the way a streamer plays and interacts with the viewers.
It's easier to appeal to simpletons than people with common sense.
That's why clickbait works.
It's also why such streamers have no actual value and should not be considered as examples for anything other than irresponsible propagation of toxicity.
That's why developers need to start uplifting small streamers. Big ones already get enough from their money trees viewers.
You mean the same developers that said "not all killers are meant to be competitive" and told us to play Civilisation?
-
@ToastfaceKilla said:
I don't get why this change was implemented, 3 times today I have hot a survivor when THEIR FEET WERE ON THE [BAD WORD] FLOOR, two of those it resulted in them getting out. What good does it do? If you get unhooked in front of a killer, then that's on you, I can follow someone to the unhook, and can't even hit them it seems. Just give everyone borrowed time by default, at least that has a timer you can see.Devs must like hook swarms because they keep buffing them. Benny Hill by Daylight is the status quo here.
-
@Orion said:
@Raziel said:
@Tsulan said:
@Orion said:
@Tsulan said:
@Orion said:
@powerbats said:
I've been watching small streamers pretty much exclusively and they're great.When you're not doing it for the money, you're doing it because you want to. People who do something because they want to are a lot better than the ones who do it for the money.
Getting big nowadays is equal parts luck and budget. Some of them may be good at the games they play, but so are a bunch of other people who stream and have had little to no success.
I´d say it has also something to do with the way a streamer plays and interacts with the viewers.
It's easier to appeal to simpletons than people with common sense.
That's why clickbait works.
It's also why such streamers have no actual value and should not be considered as examples for anything other than irresponsible propagation of toxicity.
-
@Tsulan said:
@Orion said:
@Tsulan said:
@Orion said:
@powerbats said:
I've been watching small streamers pretty much exclusively and they're great.When you're not doing it for the money, you're doing it because you want to. People who do something because they want to are a lot better than the ones who do it for the money.
Getting big nowadays is equal parts luck and budget. Some of them may be good at the games they play, but so are a bunch of other people who stream and have had little to no success.
I´d say it has also something to do with the way a streamer plays and interacts with the viewers.
It's easier to appeal to simpletons than people with common sense.
-
@willcenx said:
@RSB said:
@willcenx said:
RSB said:@willcenx said:
Try to use Predator and Stridor (Bloodhound?). The main idea is to track survs by their scratch marks, moans and blood. It becomes ridiculously easy to do with these perks and decent earphones. Also you can try to mindgame injured surv in the pallet if you want. The thing is, the surv doesn't see you but you can hear them and see their scratch marks and blood. This is a very huge advantage about the Spirit
I think you haven't played the Spirit.
My words sound obvious but actually explain a reliable strategy. You know what? I think ppl should stop complaining about nothing and start getting good. They don't want to learn the new killer, they just want easy win every match. I 4K every game I play using this tactic btw.
If you would play the Spirit, you would know, that she can;t see blood while using her power. You pretend, that you played it, you pretend she is good, everyone are just weak and can't play her. Stop pretending, okay?
You are just one of the survivors, who scream she is okay, that they "4k evritim", but in fact, you are lying. You do not want her to be viable, you want every killer, including her to be weak, so you can have you easy survivor matches.
Man you went wrong way in your thoughts. I don't promote people to start thinking she is viable, I just say she is good in straight hands, and that's all. Jesus, I didn't even mention other killers and their downsides.
Just because she is "good in straigt hands" does not mean she is a balanced killer.
Imagine you had to play chess against the world champion, but he starts without his queen and knights. He will most likely still beat you but the balance scale is still tipped in your favor. This game setup is ultimately unfair because it compensates for your lack of skill through artificial mechanics.
In the same way, the spirit's power is a double edged sword for the killer player because it comes with disadvantages. Name one survivor mechanic (NOT perks) that comes with a disadvantage. Healing? Looping? Hiding? Items? Doing gens?
-
@HUNGRY_AS_A_HIPPY said:
A lot of survivors (myself included) want to DC as soon as they see a doctor. The doctor is not underpowered nor is he overpowered. He’s just annoying. Sure, his ability to shock survivors and prevent them from performing certain actions is semi ok, but the thing that’s most annoying is how he is able to find survivors without even looking.I’ve seen survivors just roast the killer because they played The Doctor and don’t like the doctor.
Stealth against the Doctor is not only possible but very viable. It does require common sense and some knowledge about how the Madness mechanic works.
-
@weirdkid5 said:
@Raziel said:
I saw one major problem on the killer side, during that match. Your initial chase investment up to 1 character being downed and picked up was wasted. If you had hooked the first downed survivor and camped them (you were STILL at 5 gens) you could have easily won and the others would have most likely come to challenge you at the hook rather than do gens.Instead of doing that, you let yourself be looped and ate a lot of pallets. You fed the survivors a lot of points and allowed them more chances to win (even if they didn't).
The above also makes the survivor's comment about "tryharding on the PTB" completely ridiculous.
Exactly. I know the mistake I made. I tried to go with my usual strategy of downing more than one person, but it wasn't going to work out in my favor. I was already starting to realize the nonsense and opted for the basement despite there being a reachable hook on the left hand side of the house. If I had hooked them there, the match obviously would have went completely differently.
This is a prime example of how one tiny mistake can nearly cost a Killer the entire game.
Securing a sacrifice at 5 gens is a must. It is rarely given to a killer, and yes, I do mean given, since, if survivors do not mess up, you will NEVER get a hook at 5 gens.
I never pass this opportunity up. With only 3 survivors, map control becomes more than just a pipe dream.
-
I saw one major problem on the killer side, during that match. Your initial chase investment up to 1 character being downed and picked up was wasted. If you had hooked the first downed survivor and camped them (you were STILL at 5 gens) you could have easily won and the others would have most likely come to challenge you at the hook rather than do gens.
Instead of doing that, you let yourself be looped and ate a lot of pallets. You fed the survivors a lot of points and allowed them more chances to win (even if they didn't).
The above also makes the survivor's comment about "tryharding on the PTB" completely ridiculous.