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@Pulsar said:
I do not think she is the strongest anymore. The basekit changes were to reduce one thing, map pressure.
She traverses the map slower than Huntress. That makes Spirit and Billy better options, imo.
Slower than Huntress you say that because of his walk speed or because you refuse to blink. She still move 333% (13,33 m/s) or 30m of distance with both blinks. She's still the strongest killer in the game.
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@Endstille said:
Hi,
i think you missed the point of the most complaints about the nurse. I state it isn't fun to play her cause you have to play optimal, sure she is still good but not the best. I think if you manage to play somewhat okay as nurse on ps4 it is due to a) most people not being used to play against a somewhat decent nurse on console and b) you do not have dedicated servers yet.
I atm have no clue whether the patch did actually make a diffrence because I do not want to end up on the new map as nurse without addons.
Hey man, Yes the new map is bugged all the middle sides. Nurse was never fun to begin with so being unfun for me don't make a difference. As a nurse main i really think she's the best still even if i admit on big maps she struggle now but hey, Nurse still blinks though walls that is not something that any of the other killers have.
Edit: PS4 survivors know how to play against Nurse. If someone say otherwise that's simply a lie trust me.
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Either make his cooldown start with fatigue or Remove the basic attack penalty.
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@NoShinyPony said:
Consoles need optimization, then nobody would mention console-specific balance.
Of course optimization is needed but don't compare balance and optimization that's two things.
60 fps should be there since summer and devs lied to us. Anyway Balance is great for console people just need to be better.
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He might be frame drops. Devs really need to focus on that.
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No console need the same changes as PC. Many need say Nurse is unplayable and despise bad framerate and senstivity i 4k very often.
Oni is the same but i want flick back.
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@TheDarkWall said:
I would disagree, they can be quite nice in trying to line up an approach that blocks LoS before the person catches wind that you're pursuing them and starts looking for you.
Irisdecent button is a way better version of them. The range should be removed and speed add-ons should be reverted.
I think the add-ons were 0,1 m/s , 0,2 m/s and 0,3 m/s but not 100% sure.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/897617#Comment_897617
Thank you. I've been wanting to just see something like this for a long time.
But yet what about the other posts.
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@Deadeye said:
Speed is ok, 5.2 or 5.28 isn't tragically. With the missing penalty I even expected the increase to 5.2 would lead to more misses as it is harder to control -> easier to dodge.
Fatigue will not be reduced. You pretty much revert him in many points to old Legion. That would mean 110% ms as well. As long as he is 115% ms the fatigue will stay at 4s. It is about the distance the survivor shall get to not get insta downed. The old Legion with double fatigue reduction was nearly OP.
I wouldn't bring back the ability to activate the power before it is full. But I would remove the depletion on regular M1 attacks. I suggested the power drain on missed Frenzy attacks as well in anothzer thread. I said like 10% on normal swings, up to 25% on lunges. But numbers are adjustable.
Shortem fatigue on double hits: as above. The fatigue is something critical, I wouldn't touch it. Maybe add "time to mend is reduced by 25%" which allows one less skillcheck fail on mending, for example. I like the skillcheck part as well, but I wouldn't reset the timer. Adding the madness effect to be unable to repair etc I also sugggested in another thread.
Addons seem fine. Still missing something "gamechanging" in a way of a different playstyle. But hard to invent something like this.
@Lentoro Also my opinion. It would just avoid survivors finishing gens bleeding, knowing that one missed skillcheck might down them. Which would be redundant if you add the Madness restrictions to Bleedout
i want to argue with you on that point.
- Double CD add-ons : Wasn't OP it was how old legion was designed that make it look like that. Legion could use frenzy when his gauge wasn't full now current legion do have to be full gauge to use his power. They also can't kill except with frank's mix tape. Now my opinion i think the fatigue reduced is needed but if they feel it's too strong they can make it so CD add-ons don't stack issue solved.
As for old legion i do think that they can bring him back but some of the changes should stay as.
- Full gauge condition
- Miss penalty while frenzy
- Some add-ons like (Duration add-ons , irisdecent Button , pins) should stay the rest could be reverted i like the movement speed add-ons.
- All fix to deep wound (No moonwalk , no oblivious exploit)
- Frenzy not counted as basic attack is a good change if they revert old legion.
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I never play spirit because i hate her so much but, played her today to do the conniption trophy and yes no speed burst neither.
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@Witas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/896053#Comment_896053
Im well aware of how much these things need fixes, but they've been like that forever, and people only now all complain, not to say they refer specifically to the new chapter most of the time.
Thing is if the devs were at least listening just a bit the killer won't have to be changed 50 times to be right. I mean legion have been touched literally three times this year. What do that change ? nothing he is still as bad as before but took another nerfs on his way.
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Because Look at legion , Doctor , Wraith , Pig and clown now tell me what they have in common. After look at maps like Haddonfield , crotus prenn and coldwind farm and tell me what they have in common.
If you figured out then the content can be postponed a bit for fixing.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/895424#Comment_895424
Well a difficult to play killer should not be forced into mediocrity , that's absurd
Honestly i played still 4k with her often and i play addonless and on console. I think people is over reacting but i do understand. I mean basekit nerf wasn't necessary but i think if they did it it's because they were out of ideas for add-ons. So they added a cooldown of 4s and bam 2 add-ons created " Pretty Good Job So Far".
On a serious tone yes she's forced into mediocrity and we can't even play her on sanctum of wrath.
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@immortalls96 said:
This is just a well of ignorance...imagine adding a cooldown that a killer uses to..oh I dunno..move..? Not just chase..move..her play quality is horrible..cant really enjoy her new addons to play around with very much thanks to the cd on the blinks , and honestly it shows the utter lack of faith in survivors supposed skills that people actually appreciate getting chase time given to you without earning it...as a survivor its degrading to what they seem to think I'm capable of..as a killer its insulting because the work was beyond sloppy..what a great way to say thanks to the only killer that made this game survive up till now..and now they ignore and dodge every post and thought about the changes..worst thing to happen to dbd since the legion release
You totally get it Nurse saved DBD but most of people complaining are the one who haven't the dark times. Nurse saved DBD so everyone should be grateful.
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Yes the sides where statues are right ? yes played her on the new map yesterday it's unplayable.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
At least they cared enough to fix that.
Yes probably.
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@pootis_Bear said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/894000#Comment_894000
I can forgive him if he gives them back
You should call him but i'm sure he ate all them sorry for the bad news.
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@pootis_Bear said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/893929#Comment_893929
he took all my cookies and I want them back
I think he drunk too much that day.
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My poor jeffrey what have they done to you.
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Nurse is good i still play her everyday. Only big maps are a issue. However i'm not against a slight buff to some add-ons like anxious grasp , bad man's last breath.
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You now understand why i'm angry everyday as killer. People think that BL is D tier when he does the same thing as before but can't spam infinite. No exhaustion Perks have passive so BL don't have to get one.
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I'm all for doctor buffs but they should finish buffing legion first.
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@Andreyu44 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/889507#Comment_889507
Wathever ,we both know what we're talking about ;and that needs to be fixed
Yes friend but maybe in an alternate timeline where DBD have fortnite devs.
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@NullSp3c said:
My biggest problem is that people only realise all of this things now when legion is like this for 7 months now.
These videos help a lot for the people that dont play legion to understand how bad he is.
Thing is survivor mains don't want that because they think old legion will be back so.
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@Andreyu44 said:
Honestly,fix aim assist and Legion becomes 2 times better
Yes but devs told there is no aim assist on DBD.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
They don't care. They won't even bother to listen.
Yes i know but we can still create legion threads if they get annoyed they'll listen.
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@BenZ0 said:
Now Legion feels fast and smooth BECAUSE they revert there stupid nerfs back to the old Legion. Old Legion was actually fine and not broken besides the moonwalking exploit.
I feel like they could pretty much revert old legion back while keep the missed attack cooldown , the current DW fixes , his current add-ons and the full gauge to use the power.
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Pins are great now and speed buffs too. I want the cooldown buffed and my frank mix tape back.
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They don't need rework just updates.
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@Zoldyar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/109153/so-deep-wounds-exploit-is-fixed-but
I agree with everything you said. However, I think legion should keep his time for his fatigue because a killer like him shouldn't have easy access to his power without a massive punishment. Allowing a killer to vault pallets and windows, capable of slowing down the game and pretty much eliminate all counterplay while in his frenzy.
That being said, I think keeping his fatigue and power cool down the same. Otherwise the killer could just rely on ending all chases in 45 seconds by switching in and out of his frenzy while hitting you each time.
Not only that, but he could use his frenzy to come close to you, allowing him to easily catch up.
Yes i've thought of that. except strong players will still loop like oblivion. I don't think any of you want a legion that can down like before. 24s of cooldown is way too much, the basic attack penalty make no sense because the power in non-lethal.
Once legion leave frenzy They are M1 killers.
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Frank mix tape should be buffed too. I mean he take 96s to down someone (4s fatigue + 20s cooldown = 24s cooldown) Legion don't recover cooldown on fatigue like nurse that should be fixed too.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/885492#Comment_885492
Also basically now bt lasts forever because as long as you dont stop sprinting you good (so dumb).
Yes but now they can pretty much revert much of his old counterpart nerfs (down with frenzy incoming maybe ?).
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The deep wound change is great. No more exploit. I just wished they buff him by removing the basic attack penalty (gauge depletion) , reducing his cooldown to 15s (with the cooldown starting with the fatigue) , reduce his fatigue to 3s.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Please don't introduce no attack cool down again.
It was stupid that I could dodge 6 (or more) frenzy attacks but still get put into deep wounds.
I wouldn't mind if each swing that missed drained the gauge some with a slight cool down to each miss, though.
Not attack cooldown on frenzy i talk about the basic attack penalty (gauge depletion with m1 hit).
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/109153/so-deep-wounds-exploit-is-fixed-but
I liked sloppy and dark devotion legion and stbfl it made him niche at best so i dont see why theyd remove these synergies that made legion niche at best (especially dark devotion legion because you had to smack obsession then get to someone else).
I suppose they want legion to not be annoying to play against.
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Ghostface is nowhere OP, Ghostface is even easily beaten at red ranks.
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@tortrader said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/882407#Comment_882407
When he was about to be released the word from their stream was that the Legion was meant to be fun, which I took to not mean OP.
The rainfall of DCs that the Legion triggered basically doomed the character. If this killer was going to cause people to give up DBD then it has to be nerfed.
All in all it was a bad design that unmasked exploits. Don't think we as players are to blame.
Exactly you get the point.
@TheRockstarKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/884442#Comment_884442
But they continue to make and release cool and, more importantly, free skins for Legion.
I don't think they hate Legion, I think they just genuinely have no clue what to do with Legion and simply aren't willing/are unable to listen to any community feedback on them.
Still sucks, but I don't think the devs are actively out to get us.
I'm not angry on devs because they don't proceed as we ask. I mean DW is probably the issue here it's very hard to balance it. Old legion and probably new legion will exploit DW once more, maybe they should rework the entire effect itself and make it non-lethal but instead, if you are affected by it you can't repair etc.. If the timer end maybe you can't move or run or something like that.
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The idea is good because he allow the second blink to be instant (no have to charge it) plus you only lose half a charge.
Some tweak from the devs would be good. I prefer bad man's last breath but this one too need some tweaks.
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I see good feedback here. Yes evryone told devs to reduce fatigue to 3s and cooldown to 15s. We also asked.
- Basic attack penalty to be removed
- Frank's mix tape to be reworked or buffed.
That's the major point everyone have pointed out myself i did the full list of what need to be work out, So did my bud here @UlvenDagoth.
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I actually like the current PWYF the only issue have always been the stacks that's why this perk is good with LF , Myers and ghostface.
I think that the stacks should not be depleted from missing a hit for start. After for how to keep stacks and how to gain them more easily i have no idea yet.
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The 1% is not even balanced that's why the game is survivors sided. Have you seen the syndicate team playing survivors against 4000 - 6000 hours killers. They get looped into oblivion even nurse herself.
All survivors aren't even that good that's why many say he is balanced for killers now. In reality he is for the low-mid tier players. Scott is an experienced player not a god tier player. However as flickbilly they are clearly the strongest you can be with billy, they destroy everyone because pretty much no one is used to that very high level of gameplay.
No matter how much this forum or community want it to believe it the good survivors still control the flows for killers (gen rush is controlled by survivors , some power is controlled by survivors (plague), Loops is played correctly can be a huge time waster). The game is hard to balance because you have to hook 3 time each survivors.
Anyway my point we should be thankful that the large community don't play like that or this game would still be a nightmare for killers. If they want a strong balance they have to balance those.
- Reduce number of tiles close of each other (Jungle Gym , L-T wall etc...) because those can be exploited to create practically an infinite (Suffocation Pit is the perfect exemple of it).
- Buff all killers to at least be mid-tier or High tier.
- Second chance perk reduce the skill cap a lot (exhausion perks except SB and HO) and can increase chase time way too much and have infinite uses.
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@ASpazNamedSteve said:
DC'ing against Legion xd
Worse dc'ing against legion v2. It's not like legion can kill like legion v1 did.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/877444#Comment_877444
It did! Thank you so much for that!
You got some interesting ideas friend. Full rework is gonna take years if that what's going to happen. I do think they can still save them but, they should listen when we are suggesting changes.
They keep trying to change them by their way they want. Issues here is that all they are doing only give them extra work at a later date. We try to save them those extra work.
Frenzy is a great power but devs is scared to make it too powerful due to old legion. Their increased speed from PTB is a good way to go. There is still some point to fix to make them good.
Add-ons changes
- Frank's Mix Tape : This add-ons is currently the worst add-on with Stab Wound Study. The goal of this add-on is to make legion like old basekit legion. I like the idea but there is two issue here. 1). you have to hit 5 times to down someone (1 for DW effect and 4 to down) 2). Fatigue and cooldown take 24s each time to reload (4x24s = 96s to down someone) it's not viable at all.
My idea to fix it is to reduce the hits required by 2 which make 3 hit to down (1 for DW effect and two down) These change make so he take 48s it's better but still bad anyway. As a rework he could be a movement speed increased during frenzy by 0,2 m/s (5%).
- Stab Wound Study : The add-ons could be great but current legion have no use to it for many reasons.
First reason is due to DW effect being too long (30s currently). Second reason is due to the timer not depleting in terror radius and while mending. So how to fix it ? i suggest first to reduce the deep wound timer to 15s and make so the add-on reduce the timer by 5s which make a total of 10s.
- Fuming Mix Tape : Many see that add-on being bad when he is not. The current Frenzy is what make it seem a weak add-on. I want devs to keep it but fix the various aspect of the frenzy i will explain further below.
- Susie Mix Tape/Never-Sleep Pills/Friendship Bracelet : Those add-ons is for me except FMT and SWS the worse legion can have. Iridescent Button is a better version of those.
Simply revert the old version (Increased Movement Speed during Frenzy).
Feral Frenzy changes
- Reduce the Fatigue back to 3s from 4s
- Revert old legion movement speed to 5,28 m/s from 5,2 m/s.
- Remove the Basic Attack penalty (power gauge draining after a basic attack)(This penalty reduce the gauge by 50% each hit) as legion is non-lethal by default he make no sense having this.
- Make so the cooldown recharge start with in fatigue like nurse (This will make the cooldown to 20s as intended instead of 24s).
Note: As mentioned above Fuming Mix Tape is bad because of the cooldown and the fatigue and also maybe the movement speed on some maps. With the reduced fatigue and faster movement speed he will allow you to be aggresive on gens and could work very good with a gen protector build.
Deep wounds changes
- Reduce the timer to 15s from 30s.
- While affected by Deep Wounds status effect survivors can't repair gens / do sabotage. (stall potential like doctor madness)
- Deep Wound timer don't go down while being at killer proximity (32m) , in chase , in terror radius and while mending.
- Deep Wound mending have now skill check. Missing a skill check reduce the timer by 5s.
Note: The proximity radius is there to prevent any exploit (moonwalk , no terror radius). As a placeholder while a better solution is found to make DW more threatening without exploit.
Note 2: As explained there's two add-ons that affect deep wound timer (Frank's mix Tape and Stab Wound Study). Like explained SWS should reduce the timer by 5s as for FMT he is supposed to down in two hits make it so he reduce the timer by 5s per hit. If FMT is used alone he should reduce the timer by 7,5s (still down in two hits).
QoL changes
- Discordance : Tier 1 highlight the generator for 12s / Tier 3 highlight the generator for 8s.
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General : Matchmaking and framerate
Survivors : Having the worst team mate with a good killer
Killer : Having the try hardest survivors.
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He should be tuesday need confirmation.
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@ahandfulofrain said:
Seems pretty good, but I say that you should 15 seconds minimum for base mending.
Yes i think these would make them decent for sure. As for mending well 12s is a nerf so i don't how to feel about it.
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Devs should really priorize the optimization.
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From what i've seen his speed and vault speed are good. Legion is still bad because.
- There is still 4 bad add-ons (Frank's Mix Tape , Stab Wound Study and both ruler make no difference
- 4s cooldown is way to high and should be lowered back to 3s.
- Basic attack penalty should be removed (gauge depletion by 50% after a basic attack)
- Legion is the only killer that have zero mortality (Doc can stop loop etc...).
Nemesis BoP legion is sure a bad thing but at least he make legion lethal again.
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@xllxENIGMAxllx said:
Hello devs, i will make a complete feedback on add-ons and his power in general how you could fix them and how you can make them mid-tier. @Janick @McLean
Add-ons
- Scratched Ruler / Etched Ruler : Those add-ons are really bad because we see no difference due to two things. First the Basic Penalty(gauge depletion on basic hit) and second he only reduce the cooldown by 3,5s which doesn't make a huge difference.
- Frank's Mix Tape : allow legion to down people with his power but, he take 5 hit to down them (1 for DW and the others to down) which take 80s. He is by far the worst add-on legion have. You could fix that add-on reduce the hits required to down or rework it so you can move faster with FF.
Feral Frenzy
His power is not great for two things. First he can't down people and second you get punished for using it. The change made for his speed and vaults are very good.
However there is still two things that legion should be changed.
- Cooldown : His current cooldown is 4s it's way too high because add-ons don't even reduce 1s (green + purple cooldown add-ons reduce 0,850s) You could fix that by reducing the cooldown to 3s and nerfing the add-ons so the max cooldown from add-ons is 2,4s (Purple + green CD Add-ons = 0,6s). Boom from that legion instantly become mid-tier.
- Basic Attack Penalty : Legion is the single killer that have a penalty for his power. Hitting any survivor with a basic attack deplete 50% of his power gauge. That make no sense and should be removed, His power is non-lethal how can you punish a killer that can't down anyone with his power, even nurse that have 2s cooldown is punished fairly.
Conclusion
The changes you've made for Legion (His vault and FF speed) are a very good change however the frenzy being not counted as basic attack destroy many perk synergy and that is a bad change. The cooldown is too long even with add-ons good players will smash them with or without add-ons, The basic attack penalty should be removed because his power is non-lethal and because legion have a 20s cooldown to use his power again.
How to fix legion and make him viable at red ranks which might make him mid tier (Maybe ?).
Reduce the cooldown to 3s and change add-ons to reduce 0,6s max , Remove his basic attack penalty (gauge depletion by 50%) , change ruler add-ons to have a more signifiant impact on the recharge speed and fix Frank's Mix Tape either by reducing the hits required to down or rework it so he increase movement speed by 0,2 m/s.
Here my thread of how they can fix them. I'm sure that would make legion a threat.
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70 and all challenge done. No paid tiers.