xTalon32
xTalon32
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886847#Comment_3886847
When I recorded a bunch of games and took a look at the incidence of hard tunnelling it was sitting at 26%. One in four games where it's obvious the Killer is tunnelling is not just a happenstance.
And it counts as "hard tunneling" in your own opinion how? I ask because it seems you're saying your own experience represents the game as a whole. Getting tunneled sucks, but its avoidable by not going for unsafe saves. I play SoloQ and only deal with tunneling when my team mates go for saves they shouldn't. Though I'm not at higher MMR, so maybe its different at higher levels.
That being said, it is a problematic strategy for the games sustainability - as well as camping which you could argue is the same thing. We honestly don't know what the changes to deal with these "strategies" will be, but things will definitely get worse before they get better. You'd have to punish tunneling/camping, then figure which killers still perform well and which do not to get a proper idea of how to balance them into the current state of the game. I'm okay with that happening but I think there needs to be more communication from BHVR about how the problem is being handled.
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I haven't played for a couple of years, so maybe it's different now. And I've mained both survivor and killer. I don't play in higher tiers, I average between 15-5 if that's still how ranks are determined.
- SoloQ survivor was the most enjoyable for me, it gave me the challenge survivors are supposed to face while making escape completely possible. Having to rely on perks like self healing was great, because I could help my team if they needed it and help myself if they wouldn't.
- Killer - at least when I played still - was incredibly weak for the average player. I'm not the best or worst killer, I'd say above average personally. But my issue is that with balance at the time, tunneling was a necessity rather than a strategy you "could" use. And dealing with 2-4 man groups on voice chat is a nightmare, since it was just a troll fest.
I've said it before, but balancing a 4v1 game is incredibly difficult. And props to BHVR for surviving as long as they have. There's pros and cons to both survivor and killer. When I stopped playing it was because I felt something lacking from the core gameplay loop as well as the singular objective survivors and kills both have. It feels like there needs to be something more for both, that changes how we all play the game.
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@Krazzik said:
Looking at the most recent statistics it appears that Self-Care is the 6th most popular survivor perk with a 15% pick rate across all survivors.
Why is this?
It's widely considered a terrible perk that encourages survivors to play worse and waste time when they could be doing gens or just looking for other survivors to help heal them. Alternatively you could run Inner Healing which you can prepare before you're injured to then heal yourself quickly. Also you can STILL run a medkit with two heals on it to heal yourself with.
Sloppy Butcher is the 4th most popular killer perk, with a 15% pick rate and makes Self-Care waste even MORE time, especially if you get interupted and chased off.
With the nerf to medkits, Self-Care + Botany isn't actually that much slower than healing yourself with a medkit, but Botany isn't in the top 10 which seems to imply many people running Self-Care do so without anything to help speed it up.
What do you think? Is Self-Care good? Bad? Why do you think so many people still run it, and do you think people would still run it if it was nerfed even more?
So, rather than talk about the solo queue argument since it's self explanatory, I'll talk about situations where it's a good idea. SC has saved my ass more times than I can count, and I completely disagree that it makes you "play worse and waste time". In my opinion, it makes you play smarter. I never take gen perks, and almost exclusively run SC, Botany, Kindred, Empathy. I would argue second chance perks of any kind make people play worse. I've seen more players using DS play worse than those using SC, because even with self healing you can't be reckless, as you can with DS.
This is a team game, and in solo queue, information is king. The more you and your team know, the better off you'll be. My perk choices keep me alive and my team mates aware of who is down, injured and if the killer is camping so they can work on gens.
In the case that you have unhelpful team mates, it can save you. And in the case that your team is on gens, it can save you. Time not on gens is time the killer has to win. The killer interrupts your heal? Good, more time for my team to work on gens. So, it depends on your perspective really.
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Hell, I'd play killer again vs bots. As long as they get better over time or have an adjustable difficulty setting. It'd be great to actually customize bot behavior too, to get better at certain things.
For example: A setting that the bot is a "Looper" so when you find them they can do easy loops to more difficult ones, this way you can improve as a killer.
Play against bots would be more fun than people at this point anyways, which is actually pretty unfortunate.
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@Peanits said:
I'm gonna stop ya' right there. Just because someone thinks one thing is a problem doesn't mean they think everything else is fine. You can find both things to be too strong at the same time, but trying to discount one thing because of another (completely unrelated) thing doesn't accomplish anything. Saying that thing A is strong doesn't mean that thing B isn't also strong.
Unless someone is explicitly telling you that Eruption is OP but Dead Hard and Circle of Healing are fine, you're bringing up oranges in a conversation about apples.
I think the issue is more about the imbalance of what concerns the community and what doesn't. We're all prone to bias, so if something benefits us even if it's OP we'll say it's fine more often than not. But if the opposite happens, and we're negatively impacted by something the near automatic response is that it's OP.
And with regards to your last sentence, are you implying that balance issues have different weight or importance to them than others, or that it's not very productive to compare survivor and killer perks? I would think balance as a whole is one topic, not apples and oranges as it were.
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For killer it would be - Hex: Devour Hope
I love this perk, it makes the game more interesting because you actively have to run away from the hook before someone saves them. The power you get from doing this is fairly balanced too since you're actively avoiding punishing rescues. I would love to see more perks like this that give powerful bonuses for being a certain distance away from the hook when a survivor is rescued.
I've had groups where they find the totem and destroy it within 30 seconds (which kinda sucks and makes the perk less desirable). And I've had groups who find it and leave it there because of how the game plays with it on. It's not overpowering when left on, but it is a bit too easy to lose it. And besides the groups that destroy it in 30 seconds, I've yet to meet someone who hasn't had a good game when Devour Hope is used to the fullest. Even playing as a survivor against it is fun, since you know you need to get more careful as the killer gets more hooks.
Right now, unfortunately, the game is designed so killers have to get rid of survivors as fast as possible or they'll lose. Perks like Devour Hope encourage patience for the build up, and both sides have a chance to win still. So like I said before I'd love to see more perks like Devour Hope that give powerful effects for being a certain distance away from a hooked survivor when they're rescued.
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@ViperTheCharon said:
Maybe looking at the title could create a bit of controversy over nurse defenders and others, but to point it out:
Nurse is not the hardest killer anymore. (Hillbilly is IMO)
Only counterplay to her is when she makes a mistake.
Blink Attacks counting as Basic Attacks is BS. (because of perks that apply exposed and other things, for example: "Jolt" "Sloppy Butcher")
She is still S-tier for past 6 years. (I actually don't bother that)
I don't know if it's true but she's the second most picked killer in the game. (behind huntress)
If BHVR could take a notice at this (probably won't), maybe she would be balanced out, if there were some proper suggestions for her changes.
What are your thoughts?
First off thank you for actually inviting a reasonable debate rather than going off on a tangent.
Personally I see no problem with nurse. I feel like she's in a good spot - almost a killer I would determine balance from. She's easy to learn, but has a VERY HIGH skill ceiling. That being said, it's easy to see which way the nurse is going to blink if you can see her. This opens her up to counter play even without looping.
A great nurse player either avoids blinking when you can see them or they predict your countermove. I find people who lose to nurse more times than not panic when she blinks.
Overall I enjoy playing against nurse since it's a game of skill between survivors and a nurse. A bad nurse player will get run over, but a good one will give you a challenge worth playing for.
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@Seraphor said:
You can't make people enjoy something they don't want to enjoy.
I play solo survivor. I never give up or DC. I enjoy it. Even when I get sacrificed, usually.
Yet my team mates give up at the slightest inconvenience.
You can't make people grow a spine.
Couldn't have said it better myself. SoloQ is very enjoyable, As long as you play it how the game was originally designed, not expecting to survive. It's much easier to pip as a survivor than as killer in my own opinion.
Although at this rate killers might get thrown into a box on maps that they can't get out of, only able to attack survivors who go inside. Or, killers get cancelled and removed from the game entirely.
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@nfochairman said:
So i had a conversation with a guy last night
I was a killer. had the last 2 slugged picked up the last guy because it sucks being slugged. I play survivor and killer and i'd rather just be hooked myself. well he got away and escaped entirely.
It was a great move by him. Of course not only did he stay at the exit teabagging but also messaged me "oof"
so i asked "why taunt? Why isn't winning good enough?".
He said that I'm taking the game to seriously and its just clean fun.
Isn't that easy to say as the one who just won and is taunting someone? Isn't that what bullies always say? "i'm just joking"
So what am i missing? Because this happens in nearly every game where survivors escape. Should survivors just be able to taunt killers or is it a form of a bullying?
I'm not saying people should be banned or anything like that but isn't it kinda terrible that it's just understood to be "just the way it is"?
What do you guys say?
Unfortunately the amount of "toxic" players is increasing steadily. You really don't find good chats these days at the end of a match - they're certainly more rare than bad chats.
From a player perspective this is one of the reasons I stopped playing, I just don't have the time or patience to deal with "toxic" behavior in a game. I'll play with friends if the situation comes up, but DBD isn't about the hunt or the chase anymore. It's about who can ruin the game more for whoever is playing.
Case and point is the forums. While a small percentage of the community uses the forums, you can hardly have any kind of reasonable debate without it turning into a war of killers vs survivors.
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@General_Verdacht said:
I had a strange occurance after a game against some russian players where the Level of my
Killers and survivors where leveled up without my doing, then today i am banned, but the reason
is "missuse of chat" or something. So is this a permanent Ban for something i have wrote in the chat?
is it not permanent and if so, where can i see for how long it is?
Could it be possible that my account got hacked and my stats where changed and whatever?
I mean yes, i have written some things in chat, im clearly not a angel, but a permanent ban for a chatwindow that can be just closed, seem a bit strange on a account that payed about 250€ for the game.
If someone knows, please let me know thank u
Doesn't matter how much money you've spent on the game. If you were banned for something you said, than that's on you. Rules are rules. If, however, you were banned for something out of your control, this is not the place to find out. I'd recommend you contact support for that since the details of things like this are usually kept confidential.
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Killer: No One Escapes Death
Survivor: Decisive Strike
Edit: I believe all second chance perks for both survivors and killers need to go.
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@Vanishlord said:
Just so you know I'm not referring to the forums I'm reffering to the actual game. Is it just me or every couple of matches theres always either a camping killer or a troll survivor or something else. I want to hear other peoples opinions on this. Here is linkbto poll https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/346530/our-community-is-toxic#latest
Competitive games are always toxic. I can't think of a single competitive game community that isn't. It's definitely a little different for DBD though since this is a 1v4 game. Balancing plays a role in toxicity as well especially for DBD, and while the devs have tried to balance the game, it's difficult to do so since again it's 1v4.
For the sake of argument we'll assume there's an even distribution of killers and survivors, meaning 80% of the playerbase is survivor and the last 20% are killers. If survivors bring up issues, right or wrong, the devs have to cater to them more. Because losing players who play survivor is worse than losing killers on paper. Regardless, if one side feels they've been "wronged" they're going to take it out on fellow players in whatever toxic manner they want.
And strategically, playing toxic is a great way to undermine your opponent so they make mistakes. People who act on impulse because of trolling/toxicity are more likely to mess up.
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@skylerbound said:
So I’ve had killers argue and streamers argue that don’t tunnel when it’s very clear they very much do. It’s a semantic argument of the « tunneling is one person » and « I hooked someone between your hooks »
Heres the thing: I had a Nemesis with starstruck who downed person A, went a hooked them and noticed with the Wesker perk person B hiding. He downed and hooked person B while I (injured) unhooked person A. I expected to be downed(the hooks were super close) and go on the hook but instead he waited out BT to down person A and hook them to then go straight to person B who just got unhooked.
He did this till both were out of the game before hooking either myself or teammate . When person A called him out for tunneling, he went on a rant about how he did not tunnel and how he was just playing efficiently. Both of those can be true, I just don’t get how one can’t own up to playing a strategic way.
if you don’t consider this tunneling, what do you consider it?
Playing smart.
Honestly tunneling means many different things to many different people. And quite frankly I don't think tunneling exists and I'll tell you why. Blaming the killer for unsafe "rescues" and calling it "tunneling" does not make your bad rescues the killers fault. Why should the killer bother going for a healthy survivor when they can go get an injured one that's going to die on the next hook or 2? A player out of the game slows it down which is what the killer wants.
Now, camping is a legit strategy but also leads to "tunneling". And honestly the only reason it's complained about is because it's frustrating. Getting into a game and being the first one hooked then being targeted sucks, but it's part of the game. My last match was against bubba, I got downed first and camped to death, while 2 team mates disconnected and didn't bother trying to play.
Now why is camping a big part of the game? Because most killers are weak, and their powers useless. You'll never win with map pressure on a killer that can't provide that pressure. You'll never win with gen pressure without a killer who can pressure gens. There are too many killers that work VERY well with camping that you may rarely see another strategy. And you can easily break camping if you work as a team, but most survivors don't.
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The Forbidden One:
Each survivor carries an Exodia card, once they find the 5th hidden on the map they summon Exodia and win the game.
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I can't play Spirit for #########..... with or without addons.
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I'll admit the pacifier comment was a bit much, so I apologize. There was no purpose to this thread other than complaining. There was no discussion to be had since you were rude to those who disagreed with you. So all I can take from that is you don't want a discussion and came here for an argument.
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@FriendlyKiller said:
And once again I find myself in Iridescent ranks, where it's impossible to pip unless I literally play like a stupid #########. Kill the survivors too quick?
Depip.
Let even one get out?
######### depip.
I'll get Iri one(again) but honest question to my fellow killers and survivors as well? Do you enjoy the Iridescent pip system? Because I think it's garbage. Just had a Mikaela carry the whole game for her team she would have got hatch but oops I'm in Iri so I have to play like a merciless sweatlord.
Can People who get iri be rewarded instead of punished? Not even the sweat but just the rankings?
🍻 cheers
The pip system makes this game more competitive than it should be. We'll never have a balanced game with 4v1 but when survivors and killers depip if they've played well it adds to frustration.
This game should have NO competitive elements but that's quite impossible.
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@basblater said:
I’m so fed up of having a team that are just….terrible. Don’t do generators or if they do they’re missing skill checks everytime, are trying to get you to heal them while they’re being chased which goes in hand with running straight to you when they’re being chased, drop every pallet they come into contact with, don’t unhook you or if they do they attempt to heal you underneath the hook while the killer is on them, the list goes on…😂
Maybe this is all to do with soloq. I just don’t want to carry the entire team every game! I’ve just had 8 games in a row where I did every single gen while every other survivor died after I healed them repeatedly, and it’s tiresome. 🥹
I play both survivor and killer and with all the complaints about tunnelling and face camping - I feel like majority of survivors just ask for it sometimes ngl!
Amen to that. A lot of survivors are just mad about being punished for bad plays. Which is why I always believed SoloQ survivors who stick with it turn into the best players.
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@WeakestNurseMain said:
why not just make DS basekit and automatically happen, and reward killers for spreading out hooks, I was think a +5 percent bonus to gen kicking regression for each unique survivor hooked as well as adding back BBQ's bp bonus as a basekit mechanic, that would be more than enough to get me to start playing nice again.
Finally an actual idea? But let me counter with this.
Predators don't hunt healthy animals, they hunt the sick/weak/wounded. The same goes for killers. So if the killer downs someone who was just unhooked unsafely, why should we punish the killer for it? The person who was hooked should be mad at the person who "saved" them. And adding more gen slowdown on top of what they did would make more angry survivors unfortunately.
What killers need is a passive buff that works like Devour Hope (without the same effects). The problem is any bonus/perk that makes this something worth doing is going to be complained about by survivors. The reason Devour Hope works is because you're getting a powerful bonus that offsets leaving survivors alive longer than you normally would (back before they "ruined" hex totems).
Is tunneling fun for the person it's happening to? No. Does that mean it's a bad strategy? No.
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@buffcoyote said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3171347#Comment_3171347
Oh, stop. You know very well what I am talking about. If you want to remain oblivious to the obvious problems with this game, then YOU do you.
So, you're not providing any viable solutions to the "problems" that you're having. And anyone who disagrees with you is "oblivious"? You seem like the kind of person who can't play a game unless they win all the time. Well, this isn't the game for you than. And everyone was new at one point, so if you're on their TEAM you need to get over it since they're learning.
There are definitely problems with the game, but with an attitude like yours nothing the devs do would ever be enough for you unless you're winning 100% of your games.
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Solo is for those who prefer a challenge. It's not impossible, you just need to play smarter. And yeah, teams can fall apart fast. But that was the point of the game in the first place. If you want a game to hold your hand and have your team make bad saves than you do you.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3170625#Comment_3170625
Double standards. Killers are not punished for bad plays.
1) Camping is rewarded.
2) Tunneling is rewarded.
3) Killer plays badly? Survivor "survival" perks deactivated to hold the hand for killer.
4) Killer plays far inferior to the survivors? Very oppressive endgame perks like NOED, Endgame perks like Terminus, No Way Out is now at the rescue.
Slow down perks on top of already gens that take forever to complete is automatically winning killer games.
Survivors are even punished for play well of all things. If they managed to save perks like decisive strike to the endgame, it is deactivated for playing "better than the killer". There are some other perks like this too. Yes, you are right, survivors are very very oppressed and not worth playing.
To address your points.
1 - Camping is only rewarded if survivors go for bad saves, which has been proven MANY times.
2 - This goes hand in hand with camping, since it's ONLY rewarded if survivors go for BAD SAVES.
3 - Killers who play badly don't get kills, if you get hooks/kills you're not playing badly.
4 - The match isn't over until the survivors die or escape. But survivors (including me) should just be allowed to escape once the last gen is done because we've "earned" it.
Survivors are on a TEAM, if you play as a team, you'll win. If you don't you'll lose. Survivors are not punished for playing well. Both sides have 2nd chance perks and both use them.
Killers are most certainly punished for bad plays, I just played killer for the first time in forever (doctor) Ash IV. I was playing against people who had GREAT TEAMWORK (not sure if it was SWF). I didn't play badly, but I made a few mistakes that cost me. Everyone escaped, not because I played bad but because those four worked together.
So here's the reality of what you want - killers to be tied down to your rules because unless you're "having fun" by "winning" killers are OP and use "unfair tactics" to make it so you're not having fun.
SoloQ forever.
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@Sluzzy said:
Running off what few survivors are left really sounds like a great idea.
The game needs positive reinforcement, not constantly negative. As survivor, there is nothing at all that rewards good. You are punished if you are doing well and you are punished for doing bad.
Not entirely, survivors are punished for bad plays. Then get angry when they're punished. People who decide to d/c because they don't like something are the problem in this case. But you're right, we should hold their hands and tell them it's okay because survivors are oppressed.
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You're absolutely right, killers should roll over for you and let you get your tome done.
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@crogers271 said:
So I'm 30 hours into DbD and I thought I'd join what seems to be the true game: long rants about DbD.
So before I started playing I noticed lots of complaining between 'survivor mains' and 'killer mains' about the need to try the other side. So I thought as a new player I would give each side a go with no starting bias about who had the advantage.
I first played a series of games that I didn't track going back and forth just so I wasn't a complete noob. For reference I got the Trapper to bloodlevel 20, and Claudette to 30. As a further point of reference, I was enough of a noob that there were some maps that I hadn't even played yet. I decided to play 15 games as each and track the results (I also threw out any game where survivors were AFK or deliberately not playing).
I started with Trapper, build: Unrelenting (green), Thrill of the Hunt (yellow), Sloppy Butcher (green), No One Escapes Death (green) - makeshift wrap (common), trapper gloves (common) - offerings were just used to increase blood points
Results - average kill rate of 2.86, 67% of the time they didn't get the doors open. Not a single game did all four survivors manage to escape
Okay, I felt that a kill rate 2.86 was really high for a noob. Maybe Trapper is just overpowered? Nope, seems like everyone rates him one of the worst killers. Players I was going against? Yeah, there were some bad ones, but people who had far higher perks than me and obvious some of them were SWF. Am I some kind of natural savant at killer? Hardly, frequently my swings were just hitting empty air.
So let's go over to survivor and see how that worked out. Same as above, I threw out results if either a survivor or killer didn't play the game.
Results - Average kill rate of 3.33. Yikes, and of those games there was only a single time we all got out.
At this point I'm feeling that killers seem to have a pretty substantial advantage. But I decided to do one more test. I switched to Wraith, level 1, no add ons, only using the perk Bloodhound (to be clear, for all the games I played a base Wraith, no improvements)
Results - Average kill rate of 3.7. In ten games I got - 8 4k, 1 3k with a hatch escape, and only a single game were they got the doors open. In only two of the other games did they even get down to 1 gen.
Here's the kicker: In addition to being so new I was still getting lost, I was playing nice. I deliberately tried not to tunnel, after hooking a survivor I ran away from it like it was going to explode even if I knew others were in the area, and if I got off to a great start (multiple hooks before they even had a gen), I slowed down.
Noob verdict: The game is comically weighted towards the killer.
Now there is a couple of responses that might come to this:
1: My kill rate will drop when I get to 'high level MMR'.
Here's the thing, I'm not here saying I'm a great player. I'm new to the game, I should lose to players with a 1000 hours in the game (or a 100). But I'm mascaraing players who have more experience than I do.
2: I'm playing the 'easy' killers.
Yeah, sure, I imagine when I start trying Nurse there will be some comically embarrassing games, but easy should be about difficulty to learn the killer, now how much they butcher the survivor.
3: Survivors need to get good.
So there are a lot of answers to this, but I want to focus on one I haven't seen before. Killers don't need to get good. The game holds the killers hand in every way imaginable that it takes active effort to be bad.
Do you have to remember where the generators are? Nope.
Hooks? Nope, we'll tell you that.
Skills checks? Of course not.
Did something go wrong and you aren't sure where the noise came from? Oh, here's a visual icon as well.
Have trouble finding hiding survivors? Here are some perks that let you see them. Hah, of course we won't let the survivors know you have them.
Chases are another example of this. After you hit a survivor they get a speed boost. Cool, you can still run them down.
Oh, you lost sight of them? No problem, scratch marks.
No scratch marks? Don't worry, blood trail.
Oh, can't see the blood? We got you, we'll have them wine so loud you can't help but find them.
As a killer it feels like playing a child in basketball. You have to intentionally screw up sometimes to create the appearance that its actually competitive. As a survivor it feels like everyone on the team needs a perfect. Every mistake, missed skill check, mistimed vault/pallet, bad communication, has serious repercussions.
DbD has survived for a long time. It's a fun game with a cool theme. But a crazy design that things are so easy for the killer from the beginning while the survivors need to master multiple skills and, ideally, play in a group with chat.
You're not wrong a lower levels of play, however, last time I checked the game is balanced around the top players. So unfortunately you have a more inaccurate finding than you might think.
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@RavenBirb said:
it's the new noob magnet, it's all i get on survivor lately, because there's no downfall to using his power, use addons, zoom across the map. If they ever did something to him it would be a limited time cloak recharge type deal i bet you
I'm gonna pretend I didn't just read a complaint about Wraith of all killers.
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@jamally093 said:
I can save multiple teammates and repair and keep the killer distracted but no there can be one person who decides with zero hooks I'll just leave I'm sorry but why am I being paired with people how don't try helping i tried seeing this game as none competitive and just fun but fun is thrown out the window soon enough with matchmaking.
Because this isn't a non competitive game? It was about whether to risk saving your team mate or saving yourself. This is true especially in Solo.
Solo is not the problem with this game.
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@skylerbound said:
I’m definitely not saying it’s a good or healthy thing… but if I see a free base game character with no prestige.. I dodge.
prolly should hide these things.
At least you admit that you're the problem in this scenario.
There was no need to prestige characters until now. So prestige only speaks to how much you've spent on a characters blood web.
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My perks for Doc
Monitor & Abuse | Distressing | Unnerving Presence | Overcharge - [Insert any perk here]
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Creepy but I have a twisted sense of humor so I'll wing it!
Play the Twins, and run up to him with Vic yelling "Daddy, I'm 9 months away!"
Seriously though, congratulations!
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Yeah, even the equivalent for survivors was nice (We're gonna live forever?). Gave you a reason to make saves.
Why would they even remove the bonus BP perks when BP is "slow" to get anyways and now we need even more.
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@toxik_survivor said:
What can I say. It's always a survivor vs killer comment ain't it. "Survivors ruining game like always" or "killers hard tunneling." It always gotta be 1 biased side vs the other biased side. That's what's effecting this game, bias is effecting game balance. It's a constant battle between survivors and killers. And don't get me wrong that's what's to be expected in this type of game, but it gets to the point of toxicity, immature posts, and super biased post that don't regard game balance at all.
This patch is a great patch. It's what everyone asked for especially the killer side, and survivors can agree gen rushing made matches 5 minutes long (exaggeration). But still we see both sides complaining and attacking eachother. Obviously with a big patch there are going to be problems and many complaints which is completly fine cause after all this is a forum, but so much feedback is invalid because of posting it in a "attacking the other side" biased manner.
You guys do realize attacking the other side will never solve anything right? It will just make it so much worse. Attacking survivors because of DCing? They will dc more. Attacking killers because of tunneling and camping? They will tunnel and camp more. Heck I can go so far as saying that posts like "killers/survivors are so toxic because blah blah blah" encourages more toxicity in the community. If you want to make these posts be proffesional about it, don't act like a 5 year old when you get some ice cream and then want more, don't get any more, than have a fit. I'm not saying be formal on a dbd forum but be respectful and don't let bias effect game balance for you and other players
Fact: dbd forums were released a little before clown release. Since the forums have been release toxicity has greatly increased throughout the community and game. Before the forums this game was actually a very friendly game with little amounts of toxicity in game and out of game. I actually made this account in late 2018 or early 2019 I believe and I named my self toxik survivor, because I have to admit I was going through that toxic stage that most people do go through. Essentially the toxic community that was rising at the time got me thinking toxicity was "cool" but it really isn't and is very immature. I wish I can change my name but I already have too many posts in this name.
Honestly I think this is a good starting point to exploring other options for killers instead of tunneling and camping since they're not pressured for time as much now.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3105225#Comment_3105225
Just because something is a good strategy doesn't mean it should stay. Have you seen all of the complaining on the forums about camping/tunneling? It's miserable to play survivor right now. You don't see any issues with this?
Survivors have complained about camping/tunneling since release. It's not new.
Before this patch, tunneling was really the only viable strategy because gens were popped so fast you had to have an amazing start to do anything. However, after playing a few games of solo, I do think they have a good baseline to at least look and see if camping can be mitigated. From what I've seen, this patch basically gives killers more time to pressure survivors and options beyond tunneling/camping.
On a fundamental level, my issue is saying "fix camping/tunneling" without acknowledging that these were the only "viable" ways to play killer for a long time. And putting the blame on killers is ridiculous.
I'm not saying I support camping/tunneling. But killers need other options before they can be addressed, so hopefully this patch does that. Since killers aren't as pressured for time now.
Edit: I appreciate being able to have a civil debate with someone on the forum. It's rare, so it's nice. Keep being an awesome human being!
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3104991#Comment_3104991
Because this is a VERY common thing for killers to do and it makes the game miserable to play. Things like that need addressed.
So, regardless of whether it's a good strategy for killers it needs to be changed because it's "not fun" for survivors?
I understand the frustration of things like that happening to you, it's happened to me many times. Again though, both camping and tunneling can be relatively easy to counter. It just requires the survivors to be smarter and stealthier.
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@IronKnight55 said:
Idk. I'm not having fun even if I'm escaping, especially if the killer throws on a bunch of gen slowdown perks. Gens need to go back to 80 seconds, tunneling/camping needs to be looked at and maybe a few changes to some of the recently changed perks on both sides (DS, SC, Overcharge, etc). I'll be happy if they at least do those things. Longer gen times are killing it for me... it's just sooo boring.
Why does tunneling and camping need to be looked at? Tunneling is a fantastic strategy to not only make survivors panic, but also lower their numbers so gens don't get done as fast. However, most survivors don't want to get better at the counter to tunneling - stealth.
Camping is only useful if you can guarantee that people will go for the save. A lot of survivors want camping "fixed" because they don't think they should be punished for unsafe rescue's or that the hooked person somehow deserves to be unhooked for a second chance.
I'm not saying that either is pleasant for the survivor who has this done to them, but if you want an easy ride with no challenges maybe play "Let's Build a Zoo" instead (fun game btw).
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@Marigoria said:
Play solo q more and humble yourself a bit.
I mainly play solo, though I haven't played for over a year. I'm downloading the game again to see if it's as bad as people claim. But from what I've experienced solo isn't that difficult.
So we'll see.
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@Bwsted said:
Hi. This is a commendable effort. You made a claim and put up evidence for others to review.
Going over the matter itself, this strategy is already known and, in a certain sense, it was already demonstrated. It's just that when this is brought up, the mob just starts parroting the "just do gens and leave" litany, without realizing that this is not 2017 anymore and that counter no longer works.
With the new patch, many who knew how the game works, called it right away that the changes basically put survivors in lose-lose scenarios. If the killer is bringing the right build and is simply willing to camp and tunnel to death, the results you got are suddenly to be expected and nothing out of the ordinary.
How can this be dealt with? Typically, bhvr is reluctant to make structural changes. Imho the simplest way would be to remove hook grabs and interruptions (basically, it would work like killer pick-ups, the animation lock is instantaneous and can't be canceled, but the unhooker still takes damage). That makes it impossible to 'camp' two people by playing the grab game. And the hook trade is still viable. That and probably increase the hook timer as well.
bUt WhY sHoULd I Be pUniShEd 4 uNsaFe uNhOoKS, some killers may ask. Well, why should survivors be punished because circling the hook is what you call 'patrolling'? Punishing has nothing to do with it. It's about making an interaction balanced. And, currently, hardcore camping isn't. If you want to punish them, you take the 1-for-1.
Thank you for actually putting some reason and thought into what you said even though I disagree with some of it.
1- Honestly for the time it takes, facecamping isn't a good strategy unless you know survivors will go for the unhook. I mainly played solo, and seen this happen too much. If you want to play into the killers hand, go save the survivor. But you can get most gens done if everyone works on one before he even dies. Then you don't need to worry about gens and can focus on saving if possible.
2- Why should a killer be punished for survivor error? There's four of us and one killer. Going for an unsafe save and expecting the killer to roll over and be nice is arrogant.
Because most of the playerbase are survivors the trend has been to make survivor "more fun". Survivors want to be a one man army, where poor teamwork isn't punished. This is a 1v4 game, no interaction will be balanced as the game isn't able to support "balance".
I can survive solo survivor more often than not by making good choices not only for my team, but for myself. If I know I can escape, and I know I'll be downed if I try to save a teammate I'll escape. If I can save my teammate and escape with them, I'll do so. But killers should definitely be able to punish bad plays.
Side note: I've rarely ever been killed/hooked by a killer who facecamps if I'm not the first one caught.
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@Wewantjason said:
Everyone complaining about the camping/tunneling or the killers being op etc
have you read the lore? the dev discussions? the cinematics?
I feel the point of the game, is for survivors to be scared. To be stealthing, to be torn whether to save their teammate from the camping killer or try to escape on their own. We've all seen the cinematic where jake says to do the gen instead of saving the teammate that died.
Its supposed to be an emotional, adrenaline based horror survival experience. If i have a fun match idc if i escape. as killer as long as no one bms i dont care if i get my kill. It is fun adrenaline ride of whats going to happen whos going to die every game. Do I save against the camping killer or do a gen? Am i going to be altruistic this round or worry about myself? As Dwight says "I NEED YOU TO SURVIVE SO I CAN SURVIVE" does come to mind.
I feel like most people think this should be some professional/competitve game with a perfect balance. Its not supposed to be perfectly balanced and even if it were its not really able to be.
Or that the killer shouldn't ACTUALLY be a "scary" or rather I should say, intimidating part of the game.
DBD was the first asymmetrical game in which the players cannot fight back against the killer and it remains that way to this day. Its SUPPOSED to feel as though the killer is the power role and the survivors have to SURVIVE. i think too many players feel like its just supposed to be a cake walk and the killer should be nice for some reason.
What about you guys? How do you define the game and how its suppose to flow in the trials?
Couldn't have said it better myself.
When playing Solo became too easy (and it is), I lost any fun of playing. I remember being scared when I first started playing the game, my hands would shake every match because I didn't want to blow up a gen. And if the killer saw you, you knew you were going down if you didn't use pallets wisely.
DBD now is basically complaining how killers camp/tunnel. And how survivors abuse/bully killers.
I want to feel scared as a survivor and a hunter as killer.
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@Maelstrom808 said:
Still in a soloQ early match, you've been hooked by the killer already and were rescued before struggle. Killer goes and hooks a second survivor. In the meantime, you are working on another gen as the Killer rounds the corner and catches you off guard and downs you. Without knowing almost anything of the killer's motivations, and not really knowing what calibur of teammates you have, would you prefer:
A) Killer picks you up and slaps you on a hook.
B) Killer leaves you slugged.
Both have consequences that depend on your teammates being competent and not quickly being tied down by the killer. The one piece of information you have seen is the killer is not camping hooks.
I haven't played for awhile but either one depending on the killer.
Killers need to make use of every advantage they can get. If you get caught off guard, that's your own fault. And if the killer downed you in 1 hit you should have healed (I always run self care solo).
Regardless of if the killer camps hooks (which isn't an issue if you have competent team mates), survivors can easily win solo.
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@Blueberry said:
"rely on survivor's mistakes in order to win"
This includes like 90% of the killer roster unfortunately and that's being generous. Not really exclusive Trapper problem.
You could make both Trappers ultra rares base kit and he's still not even that great, that's how bad he is. He needs a lot.
Agreed, on release he wasn't terrible, but as the game evolves and players get better Trapper has just stagnated. He's basically a mascot now.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2953163#Comment_2953163
I dunno, I'd argue part of it is down to your own personal standards and criteria
I've had games where I 4ked but I still felt crappy about it - mostly because I don't think I won on my own merits but rather the mistakes of the survivor team.
And on the otherside I've had really good games where I felt I played well and only got a 2k out of it but I was satisfied because I felt like I earned those 2 kills through skillful use of a power or perks for example.
Fair point, I've definitely had games like that too. But I find those less common than what I mentioned before.
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@Starrseed said:
So I recently got back into league and of course right now I suck and I lose a lot and get a lot of bad comments in chat but somehow it doesn't feels nearly as bad as when I lose a round in Dbd especially as killer.
When I die as survivor I don't really care but when I lose killer rounds it feels so bad and I don't know why. I have rounds in lol where we lose and I have zero kills and a ton of deaths but there I never feels bad
Is this a me thing or does some of you feel the same?
Because as survivor you don't have to survive to "win". You just need to help at least some of your team get out, and that FEELS GOOD.
As killer, the game is now against you, and you have to work hard for your hooks. Only to have 2 or 3 survivors get out. It doesn't feel good because your goal is to kill EVERYONE (regardless of what others say). Anything less than a 4K feels like a loss.
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@Slowpeach said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2952344#Comment_2952344
The major reason why killers whine more is twofold.
- Survivors can usually vent to each other if survive with friends.
- The game is legitimately stacked against the killer. Simple math of average find, chase, hook time vs. how long it takes 3 people to do generators+escape proves that. That's acceptable considering survivor should be more appealing because you require 4 survivors for every killer but it's a bit too far at the moment and Dead Hard is the biggest contributor.
Solo survivors have their own grievances for sure but I think if players were made to play solo (not a good idea just pointing it out) killer complaints relative to survivor ones would go down significantly.
Also Dead Hard is as much a frustration and mental thing as it is an overpowered thing. It denies the killer their reward right at the moment they are about to get it and no amount of counterplay is healthy or even feasible in some cases. The arguments against Dead Hard at this point are overwhelming.
I'm sure some WILL complain about sprint burst or overcome or whatever, just like some survivors complain about blood lust but the 'mental' thing of dealing with sprint burst is a lot easier. It's much harder to manage sprint burst then Dead Hard and when it happens, it's at the start of a chase not the end.
Oh and btw, you can take any three or four killer perks for Dead Hard. You can nerf Blight or Nurse too from where I sit. I don't even play to win and I loathe Dead Hard.
I play solo survivor exclusively and I still think the game is stacked in favor of survivors more than it should be. I don't actually have to try very hard to escape, and for a game like this that doesn't make escaping feel like an accomplishment. At this point you don't even have to worry about totems since those were nerfed to be almost useless to killers and more in favor of survivors.
Eventually, the killer will need to fix gens and the survivors will beat the killer to death. That's the direction we're going.
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Honestly, if you play this game competitively you're in for severe disappointment. It will never be balanced to a point where the entire playerbase is happy. And quite frankly, BHVR has a record of catering to the loudest group of people (though not always, just most of the time).
For myself, there really isn't much to keep me attached to this game unfortunately. The community as a whole is good, but the more vocal elements sour the mood. Definitely a great game to play with 5 people in discord, but other than that it's lost the "horror" element because killers just aren't scary anymore. I played survivor for the "fear" but after years of making survivors more powerful I don't have to fear the killer anymore since the game is way too easy now. And playing killer isn't rewarding at all since you're basically the weak one in the game.
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@LordCyphre said:
Yes, not everyone is overly altruistic. my point however is that survivors reward camping and tunneling way to frequently either by being overly altruistic or by just camping themselves around the hook instead of punishing it properly by slamming gens.
Killers camp and tunnel because it gets them lots of kills but it only gets them lots of kills if survivors let that happen.
Camping in theory is inefficient. In practice it works but it shouldn’t. There‘sd be far less of it if survs wouldn‘t make it work so frequently. Killers camp for easy kills, if survivors don’t throw there’s no easy kills with camping anymore and they need to change their strategy.
Tunneling would also be less effective if survs just didn‘t go for unsafe unhooks and did gens.
Agreed, which is why I run Self Heal, and other perks that help it. It means I don't need to rely on my team to heal me, and I can push gens when I know a killer is camping someone.
Unfortunately survivors have gotten to the point where they forget how to play without 2nd chance crutch perks (and the same can be said for killers). Playing with things like DS in the long run changes how you play by changing you decision making to more risky and ultimately unsafe plays that can be easily punished. Instead of avoiding the use of DS when it's equipped, survivors just throw themselves at the killer to use it. Which is a poor use of the skill.
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I don't use DS because it's a crutch perk that survivors now rely on because it allows them to be risky with no consequence instead of being stealthy.
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@Bullettimegod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2861240#Comment_2861240
I wouldnt go that far.
Why not? What's your reasoning on that?
Honestly having perks that counter killers makes survivor which is already easy mode even easier in my opinion. Others will certainly disagree, but killers have been weak for years which is why only a few are played the most. A lot of them just aren't viable. While the game isn't technically a competitive one, the way ranks and BP works makes it one. This causes people to only use a select few viable killers.
The real issue is trying to balance a 1v4 game.
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@Bullettimegod said:
The fact that they have perks to counter killers in general is annoying.
Agreed, survivors should only have perks that help them survive. As killers should only have perks that help them kill.
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@Sideralkchudo said:
I've seen some posts here and on other sites saying, in summary, that playing killer is currently boring and "unbalanced" (I don't know why an asymmetrical game has to be balanced LOL), but as a killer main, I usually got 3k or 4k in each match, and when I play survivor, it's the opposite, I rarely escape the match ( unless the killer camp or tunnel me of course). Even some times I think the killers say that because they don't like to lose in this game.
So I started as a killer main, I only play Solo Survivor now mostly.
As solo survivor I escape more than half my matches. I don't even need to rely on my "team". So at low ranks where survivors are new or don't play properly killer is definitely the dominant role. As you climb ranks that distinction falls away very quickly so that survivors are the dominant role.
I say this because it's 4v1. The game was supposedly designed as a horror game where you had to work together to have a chance to survive, and I believe that is how it should be. But now 4 survivors get 16 perks to use together and the meta is second chance perks. They continue to add more and more objectives for killers to occupy them and survivors still only need to do gens. This makes it so if you have a top tier killer and 4 top tier survivors playing, the survivors have the advantage from the start.
While this is a 4v1 "horror" game when you're new or don't know what you're doing; it becomes a 4v1 bully/troll the killer game once you know what you're doing. All because the majority of people playing are survivors and don't want a challenge (I'm a little annoyed that the game has been reduced to the state it's in).
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@AkiTheKitten said:
I know we're getting some type of LGBT representation, but what kind?
Are we getting just gay/lesbian survivors or are we getting both killer and survivor?
Are we getting trans characters too? Non-binary?
Could we also get characters with non traditional body types? (Male character with a body type similar to Feng's, and vice versa)
Thank you!
So I'll be blunt, I don't understand why this is a huge deal in a game. And while I don't completely understand the LGBT+ community, I do agree they should be afforded the same dignity and respect as those who aren't (regardless of personal beliefs).
So how many survivors/killers are we talking about? Because with the amount of different terms and definitions as well as the shear amount of pronouns there are, we could have an infinite amount of them. Where do you see a good balance?