tjt85
tjt85
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I do think it was kinda crazy of them to add Blight and Spirit at the same time in the last version. And with Wesker joining them for version 3, there are not too many ultra strong Killers left to add to the mode. Nemi would be pretty strong in this mode as well, if he could tier up a little quicker. I'm personally not enjoying all the 3 bounding stealth weskers running about.
But I can see why they mostly added the speedy Killers first, because any Killer that has mobility issues in the regular game is going to really struggle on these huge maps unless they commit to patrolling a gen cluster. Perhaps their powers were the easiest ones to adapt for 2V8 for that reason.
They could add more Survivor classes to encourage "wasting time" by opening chests and booning, to balance the mode for a slower pace of action (I think they should do this anyway). But then you might have the same problem as the Halloween event, when Killers would never collect any Haunts because it didn't really help them much with their objective. After all, Killers don't have anything in this mode to do other than to chase Survivors.
The only thing stopping this from being the sweatiest mode ever is the complete lack of match making, imho. That's why I think they really need to get those Killer queue times down. No casual Killer will want to wait 15-20 minutes to get steamrollered, so by attrition they'll begin to drop out and only the most dedicated Killer mains will remain. Likewise, if casual Survivors are escaping only about as much as they might in the regular mode, they'll probably drop out too if the games begin to feel too sweaty. Especially as Killers learn to predict cage spawns and frequently co-ordinate to double team.
It's a silly mode with lots of broken, imbalanced things in it but it could easily tip over into sweaty unfun territory if BHVR aren't careful and something they do pushes a chunk of the player base away. I can see Legion doing that (although I don't think they're a problem, many other players seem to).
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Funny you should say, my 1 and only regular 1V4 Survivor game was against a Blight. I don't typically see a lot of Blights and I very much doubt I'm "high MMR" with a 35% Survival rate. There might be a lot more newer Blight players with the recent free trial, though. I also played a Billy game against a team with a zero perk Jake and I'm pretty sure it was his first ever game.
This is why I never touch 1V4 if an event is on because match making goes right down the tubes.
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I'm such a hardcore console kid that I use a controller whenever possible, even when playing on my Steam account.
This is honestly one of the few QoL changes that kinda makes me shrug because I don't think a huge number of players will actually take advantage of M&K on console. But I know some people have asked for it, so maybe I'm wrong…
Besides, the only console I play on is the Switch and I'd rather they focus on improving and optimising perfomance instead (and for some of the older platforms as well). Lack of M&K on Switch is the least of its issues.
I feel like it must be possible to make some improvements because Fortnite uses the same engine as DBD and that game runs incredibly well on the Switch, all things considered.
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I had a lot of misgivings about the anti 3 gen system when they first announced it, but in the end I think it's turned out fine. It's still possible to defend a 3 gen if the Survivors screw up and give you one, you just can't do so forever anymore.
So I'm cautiously optimistic that whatever changes they make they won't be too extreme. But I am curious to see what they have in mind for new anti-tunnel and anti-camping mechanics, since Survivors do already have some partial defences against these strategies but like I said, I guess we'll see.
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@biggybiggybiggens said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886107#Comment_3886107
We can make it to where teammates can only see each others perks when pressing the "Esc" key after you're already in game. Then if you want to D/C, it's all on you at that point.
Yeah, that's what I meant (if that wasn't clear). I just didn't know what to call the page that you bring up in game with the menu button.
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@biggybiggybiggens said:
Why can we not see our TEAMMATES PERKS??!!! O.— This is obviously what SoloQ could use. DBD Mobile had that… Can't we already see our OWN perks in lobby?… Am I missing a key component here?
As an avid Self-Care and meme build enjoyer, I don't look forward to being lobby dodged because somebody doesn't like my perk choices. We removed prestiges to reduce lobby dodging, why would anyone want to add something that might bring it back again?
Showing each teammate's perks while in game on the ping / offering page would be something I'd like to see, though.
I'd like to know if Survivors will be penalised for "going next" by attempting to self unhook or by missing a skill check to give the other final player a chance at hatch in an obviously lost game. Will I be expected to hang on in these situations, giving the Killer more chance to find the last Survivor? Because I usually let myself go in these situations, since it feels a bit petty or like BM to stay alive in a doomed trial.
Other than that, I don't have anything to add except that I'm really happy to see BHVR responding positively to some long standing issues. Obviously, we don't know what solutions they have in mind yet, but this is at least a good sign that this stuff is on their radar and they're working towards improvements. I think they've realised that there's no point in bringing big deal* franchises like FNAF into the game if the new players they've attracted don't stick around because of long standing player frustrations that have never been properly addressed.
*(So the kids tell me. I know nothing about FNAF)
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I think they maybe want to know which mode Survivors really prefer to play if given the choice between the two (in other words, is 2V8 actually fun?).
If only 2V8 had the 400% bonus, they might conclude that at least some Survivors are only playing the mode for the incentive and not because they enjoy it. Yes, you can bring BP offerings in 1V4 but I think my average BP earnings in 2V8 are 5-10K better, so the difference in what I might earn is probably not that great.
Personally, I've not touched 1V4 Survivor at all since 2V8 started. Despite my issues with 2V8, it can still be a lot of fun and offers up a different enough experience from the main game to keep me playing. I won't lie though, those incentives are definitely working to keep me playing Survivor.
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I've played a few Legion games, but to be honest if they weren't my main I wouldn't have bothered. Queues are definitely better in my experience though, with just over 10 minutes to wait. Still not ideal, but better.
I'm otherwise way too busy earning all that extra BP playing 2V8 Survivor. Ironically, I'll be spending most of it to prestige my Legion, which is funny because it's often been the other way around (The BP I earn with my Legion I mostly spend on my Survivors).
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@SweetbutaPsycho said:
Legion has to rely on their teammate in this mode but since almost every killer is omegabuffed most of the times that is no problem at all.
I agree that something should be done about legion before the next iteration of 2vs8. People are realising how to play them and that they are very fun when you get a full 8 survivor frenzy which leads to legion being way too overpresent in current 2 vs 8. Out of the 12 survivor matches I played today 10 were legion x random killer.
Legion are getting a lot of play right now because they're one of the 3 new Killers. The same reason why most of my 2V8 games have also included either a Wesker or a Nemi. I'm sure they'll get picked a lot less in the next version, when there's 3 more buffed up Killers to play as, especially when Killers that don't main them have realised how weak they still are.
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I think you're right, though not too many will agree with you. Legion is pretty weak. He's a pure support Killer, with the other Killer having to do all the heavy lifting. Not that balance is important in 2V8, but I think their weakness as a basic attack Killer wholly reliant on their partner to get the majority of cages is what balances them out.
I get that this is a hot take on the forums, but I think they could use some buffs. Frank's Mix tape base-kit would be nice (it should be base-kit anyway) and they could maybe add the Scratched Ruler add-on, so they can get their power back quickly. I don't think BHVR would dare buff them for the next iteration.
It's weird that a nerfed Legion in 2V8 is a problem, but all the other turbo buffed S and A tier Killers aren't? I just don't get it. Say you don't like to Vs a Legion, but don't pretend the other Killers aren't just as ridiculous.
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It's got potential to be a good mode, but every iteration they've added something to make it a little bit worse. Things like:
- Not making the cages move anymore unless a Killer is nearby. I've died 4 or 5 times because I got sent to the other side of the map and no one came to save me.
- Adding bots to help with queue times. Kind of a double edged sword this one. If they help queue times, one in a trial is OK. But at times they can be infuriating.
- Adding the RPD map (does anyone actually like this map?). Plus, bots just can't deal with 2 terror radii on a 2 floor indoor map.
- Adding all of the strongest Killers to the mode first, instead of a balanced selection.
- Adding classes that encourage a double teaming Killer playstyle, instead of classes that encourage pressuring different parts of the map.
- Lackluster Survivor game play. There are only two fun Survivor classes (Scout and Escapist).
- Splitting the queues to take up two lobbies worth of a regular trial for 2V8 makes 1V4 borderline unplayable for me.
- And the worst problem of all: the long Killer queue times. Even the things I've listed above wouldn't be a big deal if players could get into Killer games faster.
If you don't take it at all seriously, it's still fun and it's gotten much better since they ditched the 2 bot lobbies. But frustrations are beginning to creep in for me.
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Meg is my number 1 Survivor. But Rain, Dwight, Steve, Sable and Ash also get a decent amount of play. Since Iron Will got buffed, Feng and Jeff are becoming favourites as well, since they have some cool cosmetics.
As for Killer, I main Legion and to a lesser extent, Chucky, Billy, Slinger and Trapper. I prefer Killers with simpler powers, I guess.
Before the 100% BP incentives disappeared, I would have considered myself a "BP main", but overall I play more Survivor (70/30). I guess I enjoy the underdog aspect of the role and I get more of a buzz from escaping than I do from getting a 4K, since escaping happens so rarely for me.
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2V8 definitely feels sweatier than the main game at times, with all the Blights, Billys, Nurses, Spirits and Weskers flying about the map. I think I've faced more of these guys in a few days of 2V8 than I would in a whole month of playing DBD.
I find trials are usually an overwhelming victory for one side or the other, with very wide disparities on the skill levels of your opponents and teammates, which leads me to believe the mode has no functional match making whatsoever (like, even less so than in 1V4). I've had both Killer and Survivor games that have been total stomps. Not that this would matter at all if the Killer queue times were below 5 minutes, but sadly they're not.
It's meant to be a relatively chill break from regular DBD, but it sure doesn't feel that way to me a lot of the time.
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@indieeden7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884715#Comment_3884715
"Run early" the majority of them run shadow class
Ok, I faced one of these today.
Yeah, I agree that it's not a fun combo, but I think that's more of a problem with the Shadow class than with Legion. I'm not sure Killers even need to have classes in this mode, to be honest (or the classes should be reworked / toned down). They get a buffed up version of their power already.
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@wakesafe said:
They’re absolutely broken and since they’re easy anyone can play as them to test it. The only game I lost as Legion was because my Wesker teammate was AFK.
They added an easy to play, strong in 2v8 Killer that makes playing Survivor miserable when they need Survivor players…it doesn’t make any sense.
I've played quite a few Legion games and I've lost just as many as I've won. And I haven't won at all since the 400% BP 3x XP bonuses presumably brought back all the sweats (but I'm not complaining, the Killer queue times are half as long as they were).
I dunno, maybe I'm just crap at playing my main, but I would currently rank Legion as the 2nd worst Killer in 2V8 (above Trapper but below Deathslinger).
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
I haven’t had any personal issues playing against Legion. I usually just camp pallets and even if they get the hit, I still get the stun and knock them out of their power. It usually conditions them to ignore me the rest of the match. Sorry teammates!
Exactly. Run early, camp pallets, make them whiff in Frenzy, spam vault those god pallets and body block for your teammates if you're in deep wound. If you can get Legion out of their power, they're the worst Killer in the game for the next 20 seconds.
When there's a 10 hatchet Huntress and 3 bound Wesker in the mode and people are complaining about a nerfed version of Legion, it makes me think some players just hate going against Legion. It's less about Legion being in 2v8 and more about Legion being Legion.
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I like the herbs. They're not a mindblowing or terribly exciting addition or anything, but they're still appreciated.
I've only gotten regular use from the green herbs, so far. I think I've only found the yellow herb when I've needed one twice in about 20 Survivor games, but the green ones seem fairly plentiful. The yellow herbs would obviously be busted in the main game but that's OK. 2V8 is the place for busted and unbalanced things.
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Legion are fine imho. Facing them in 2V8 doesn't feel any different to facing them in 1V4 to me, except this time they might be paired with a Killer with an oppressive chase power able to pick off injured Survivors. Wraith can do much the same thing as a support Killer (although he also has the power to finish off chases as well).
I find it weird that people are complaining about Legion when you could be facing off against any combination of Blight / Nurse / Spirit / Wesker or Billy. I had a Blight and Nurse combo yesterday. I'm sure you can imagine how that went (yes, we all died very quickly).
Spirit is probably my least favourite in 2V8 (and 1V4), since she has absolutely no counter play at all if you play without headphones (you can pick the Scout class, I guess that helps a little). She goes invisible, you throw the pallet and hope you're on the right side of it or else you die. Fun.
The good thing about Legion is that they're less likely to adopt the double teaming strategy that I find so frustrating to go against. Sure, they'll sometimes team up with the other Killer because their power alerts their partner to where the action is, but they'll usually be zooming about the map applying pressure to gens and won't want to stick around for too long.
As a Legion main, I will admit to being a little biased here. After all, I know how much fun it is to have so many Survivors to chase after. 2V8 is Legion main heaven and it's such an adrenaline rush to pull off a down with your final Frenzy hit (I've only done this once so far). Why would I begrudge other Legion enjoyers of that kind of fun?
I think playing as a Killer can sometimes make you less likely to hate facing them as a Survivor. I don't enjoy facing The Blight, but after trying him out I can at least say I now understand his appeal. It's fun to be a human pinball. I'll never buy him because I felt pretty sick after only 2 games, but I know why people play him and it's changed my perspective a little.
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Sounds like a good thing to me. It may be that none of these things make a difference, but it's worth trying them all and comparing each approach. I applaud them for at least experimenting with different combinations and solutions.
And if none of them are working, then BHVR will have to do further investigations into why players don't want to play Survivor (if that is actually the case). I think it's partly beacause the Survivor side is under developed and not novel enough when compared to what Killer offers to players, but there might be other reasons too.
Personally, I did notice a small improvement in Killer queue times but obviously they say they have data that shows it's not been impactful enough. I've heard arguments that Killer queues would naturally get better if the mode became permanent and players didn't feel like they all had to rush to play Killer. That may be true, but I'm not sure that's an experiment they could realistically carry out.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884346#Comment_3884346
I aint denying anything, its just a little out there to say that streamers are doing open lobbies only because of bots
I wouldn't say it's the only reason, but I also don't see too many of them playing solo. If the mode was enjoyable for Survivor this time around, they would probably play more Solo Q 2V8 games. But it's not, so they won't. I've even seen a few brave the huge Killer queues, which they hardly ever did last time (though to be fair they are shorter, with a 10-15 minute wait in my experience. Still, that's a long time to expect your chat to watch nothing much happening).
It's either SWFing with their community / friends or they've already gone back to 1V4. So maybe, just maybe, 2V8 Survivor isn't as fun in version 3.
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@MaddieMage said:
The BP incentive is there to get people to play survivor because no one wants to play that role. Thats why killer queue times are so long. Also a BP incentive has nothing to do with whether something is survivor sided. It means there’s a lack of people playing that role.
Youre also probably facing a lot of full SWFs in 2v8 because if you don’t load in with 8 people you’re basically getting 2 bots per match making it a 2v6 and no one wants to play with bots. So they’re getting a full squad together to dodge the bots.
I've seen a lot of content creators doing this (playing with their chat or with content creator friends).
It's funny to see some Fog Whisperers SWFing up for 2V8, when their job is to promote the game and even they don't want to queue with the bots, you know BHVR messed up this time.
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@Nazzzak said:
As much as I agree, I can't see them removing bots. Not in this version or the next. I think they'll probably just take the feedback on the bots and adjust them (like programming them to leave the herbs alone so real players can actually have a chance to interact with them). They've already said they've given up on bloodpoint incentives fixing queue times since they didn't get the results they wanted last time they tried that.
What would be the worst that could happen if they upped the incentives, though? 250% feels kinda stingy to me. I know we've had some recent blood hunts, but otherwise it's felt like we've been in a bit of a BP drought recently.
I can only speak for myself, but farming extra BP on Survivor is literally the only reason why I'm sill playing 2V8. Yes, bots could be a part of the solution, but they can't keep neglecting the Survivor side like this. They need to do more to make the role appealing for players to queue up for. And for this iteration they've done nothing, except for adding yellow herbs that the bots will immediately hoover up (if the Killers don't find them first). It's disappointing.
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I had a Wesker who got caught with the same bug. He stood in a pallet for me to see if I could stun the Rebecca bot free but it didn't work. They still got a 7K regardless (they let me find hatch). It was funny to see a floating Rebecca flying around the map, though.
Hopefully BHVR can come up with a bug fix quickly because it's not an uncommon occurence by the looks of it.
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The only Killer game I've queued for took around about 12-15 minutes. I think that's probably lower than it would have been by about 5 minutes.
So the bots are probably doing something to lessen queue times, but it's not enough for me personally to want to queue up for Killer.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884014#Comment_3884014
If scout was what you are saying, I would see it as valid reason to dodge lobbies with multiple scouts.
It would be simply selfish class bringing nothing for the team.
I don't want to reopen the whole Distortion nerf discussion again or the argument over whether or not DBD is a "team game", but being able to hide other Survivor's auras for a limited time would bring something for the team.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883984#Comment_3883984
there's no way you're not getting hit with that most of the time.
I am fine with gettting hit for it. There is not really a risk to it when there is no chance for Enduring.
Still way better than the alternative, where I get hit anyway, but also other survivors will get hit…
Besides, I've always felt like rebuilding pallets should be The Escapist's thing.
That wouldn't really be balanced. Huge buff for Escapist and Scout would be kinda useless.
Current way is better. There is use for all classes imo.
I usually play Scout whenever I am soloQ and Medic when I go duo (for instaheal in chase → super broken)
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
Scout is my favourite class. I think they should have the ability to hide right under the Killer's noses without the risk of being revealed by aura reads, hence the idea for a Distortion like ability. I don't think that would be useless with all the aura reading Killers get in 2V8. Re-building pallets is fun, but it just doesn't suit the idea behind the class in my opinion.
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@Jarky said:
It is the Enforcer class Killer's can choose in 2v8.
"When a Nearby Teammate injures a survivor, the survivor gains 'Endorcer's Mark'. Putting that survivor into the Dying State grants the team-mate a lunge attack distance boost."
It effectively gives their team-mate coup de grace when you go down with it. it's just letting you know you have that mark on you.
Oh right. Thanks for the explanation. Mystery solved.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883986#Comment_3883986
No, I don't
I only bought 2 shirts though
Strange. I wonder what the requirement is for unlocking both? Perhaps I'm not actually meant to have the banner…
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Is this the symbol you mean? I've wondered that myself because I honestly have no idea.
Does anybody know?
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I have 4 (Dwight, Meg, Kate and Thalita). I bought some of them twice though (on Switch & PC) before cross progression, so maybe that counts for more.
Do you not have the banner?
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883702#Comment_3883702
What about adding an "anti-Legion" class?
Scout is anti-Legion class…
You can rebuild pallets, which means you always have pallet nearby to just stand under and stun him out of Frenzy.Kind of, but not really.
If you've got great ping, that's fine. But some of us play with 60ms + and there's no way you're not getting hit with that most of the time. I mean, you should still try to stun them anyway because you're likely to be hit either way. I think it's usually better to pre run or just to stay away from a Legion in frenzy (and the aura read from Inner Focus would help with that).
Besides, I've always felt like rebuilding pallets should be The Escapist's thing. Scouts should have something Stealth related instead, like short range team aura blocking for a limited time.
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@Dadeordye said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883702#Comment_3883702
Please no BS perks in this mode (DH being one of them).
Who get's to decide what's BS and what isn't? (The answer is BHVR, obviously).
Base-kit no where to hide is BS if you like to play with a more stealth orientated play style. The entire mode if full of BS things and that's probably part of the point of it.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883702#Comment_3883702
I doubt he's even OP, he's probably just annoying.
I don't think anyone enjoys mending
Some people just hate Legion. Short of completely changing them, there's nothing BHVR could do to the Killer that would make them more tolerable to those players, whatever mode they happen to appear in.
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Oh Nice!
I've got the banner too. I only bought a few Survivor T-shirts but no Killer skins so it must be for everyone.
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Everyone's least favourite Killers are going to make it into 2V8 some day (license issues notwithstanding). Some of mine have been in the mode since day 1!
The funny thing is, when compared to the other Killers added to 2V8 Legion have kinda been nerfed. With 9 hits to get a down and a reduced mend time, BHVR have been relatively conservative with their power. They have the same weaknesses as in 1V4. Lots of map pressure but no lethality. The other Killer really needs to be pulling their weight to capitalise on any injured Survivors. They're only strong if their partner is strong.
From the reaction of a lot of forum members, I feel like a lot of players would hate any version of Legion being in 2V8. They could make time spent mending progress a random gen and give Survivors base-kit MFT and some players would still hate going against a Legion.
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Wow, I guess there are a lot of Legion haters out there…
(for me personally, Wesker, Spirit, Huntress, Nemi and Blight are way less fun to face in 2V8, but to each their own)
What about adding an "anti-Legion" class?
Maybe something like Resilience / Smash Hit / Inner Focus / Made For This could work pretty well. Dead Hard might be a good choice for the build too, though obviously less useful against a Legion.
There really should be more Survivor classes anyway, focused around different play styles.
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There's nothing wrong with the player base voicing their opinions and giving constructive criticism. And that's mostly what I've seen from people on the forums, not people being over emotional about a video game. After all, that's partly why BHVR maintain this forum, so they can hear our feedback.
My feeling is that Killer is an absolute blast in 2 V 8. But the Survivor role is currently very under developed. We should have at least 6 new Survivor classes to try out by now. The novelty is wearing thin for me and I don't personally feel much urge to join the Survivor queue. I mean yeah, I'll still play a few games here and there, but for the next two weeks I'll be playing less DBD.
It might be that myself and others on the forum are among a tiny minority of players not enjoying the latest 2 V 8 so much. That's fine I guess. If Survivors keep queuing up in the numbers they have for previous iterations, I'd be willing to conceed that most players do infact enjoy 2 V 8 for what it is - a silly low stakes party mode. Maybe they don't need to change anything and I'll just sit the mode out next time it returns.
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I'm generally not a fan of anything likely to split the queues.
I feel like the quality of my games really take a dive whenever there's a mode or event on since the player base is so split, which is why I won't touch the regular game. I wish DBD had Fortnite numbers to support more than one mode but I just don't think that it does.
People say FNAF is a big deal and will bring a huge influx of new players (I don't know about that), so perhaps if DBD can retain a lot of those players then extra modes will make sense and could become a regular thing. But to be honest, I think Chaos Shuffle is the only fully successful new mode and the only one I'd like to see return semi-regularly, probably because it's similar to the main game but without over reliance on meta perks. With a few small tweaks, it would be perfect.
That said, I don't think we should have two weeks or more of these modifier modes. They could return more often, but should be limited to a weekend (say Fri - Mon), with a single page mini tome (But only if it's a themed modifier. It's just banners and badges anyway, so nothing worthy of anything more than that).
Or they should come back much less regularly, but return with bigger changes and more improvements.
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@BorisDDAA said:
It's already 2v6 and no I wouldn't.
And if there's a Nemi on the Killer side, it's 4V6.
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883399#Comment_3883399
I would like to know why you think that the killers are stronger this time, because the killers literally did not receive any upgrades while the survivors received yellow and green herb
Killers can use the herbs as well to get haste. Just taking a yellow herb out of play is pretty strong, since a Survivor can't then use it to remove a hook state.
No upgrades? Aside for all the other things I mentioned, you don't think 3 bound Wesker is strong? Or a Legion that can quickly get everybody injured to be easy pickings for the other Killer? Or a 10 Hatchet Huntress with constant aura reads (most of my games have a Huntress in them)? Or Blight, Spirit and Billy in their equally buffed up 2v8 forms?
6 of the best Killers have been added to the mode over 3 iterations and Survivors have had what, brain dead bots, some herbs that Killers can also use and the exact same classes as the 2nd iteration.
I've Survived 2 out of 10 2V8 trials so far. My escape rate was probably better in the first iteration.
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In theory, if the Killers know what they are doing then it's Killer sided for sure this time around, I think. Between turbo buffed Killers, frequent aura reads and base-kit Discordance, they have all the tools needed to find and down Survivors quickly to get an unstoppable snowball going (though obviously some Killer combinations struggle).
Plus, Survivors are near guarateed to be matched with 2 bots on their team. The bots aren't a total deadweight , but they're still much worse with macro play than most Survivor players and that's a big disadvantage.
But in practice, the games are so chaotic and the skill disparities between players so great, that it could be anyone's game.
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If BHVR were able to get the queues down to a reasonable time for Killer, I think the mode might have had a future as a quick play arcade style mode for players to drop into between games of regular DBD. But the novelty of 2V8 has mostly gone (because Survivor is more or less the same old, same old we had the last 2 times) and they really need to work more on the Survivor experience if it is going to have a future. It feels like most of the effort for 2V8 is directed towards getting more Killers added, which is understandable I guess, but they have to give Survivors a good reason to keep playing the mode as well. It's getting stale already. And that's the big problem, isn't it? 2V8 is all about the Killer experience.
The 2 Killer games I played the first time around were genuinely among the best times I've ever had with DBD. But that still doesn't mean I'm willing to queue for 20+ minutes for the experience. I know others will be willing, but I'm not. Though I will definitely endure the queues to play some Legion games, that will only be because they're my main. Those queue times just totally kill the mode, imho. I don't hate the bots. The bots would be fine if they did what they were designed to do, but from what I hear they've done nothing to help the Killer queues.
Perhaps 2V8 just isn't for me (or at least 2V8 Survivor isn't currently for me). If it does return, I really hope BHVR make huge improvements to the Survivor experience. It currently feels neglected.
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This time around, I'm just going to unlock the tome rewards and call it a day for playing the Survivor side, since the game play is near identical to previous iterations. Where are the new Survivor classes to play around with?
And yes, it's still no fun to be double teamed by 2 killers who're joined at the hip, no fun to have your aura revealed constantly and very annoying to go second stage because the maps are huge, the cages don't move anymore and so you don't get saved.
On the plus side, performance on Switch is pretty decent, considering how much is going on.
I'm still looking forward to queuing for some Killer games as Legion, but after that I'll be done with the mode. I suspect a lot of other Survivor players are too. Common frustrations haven't been addressed, the bots haven't fixed queue times for Killer and there's no new Survivor content. No wonder players are not feeling it.
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@ChuckingWong said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882410#Comment_3882410
Could just have it where you can only baskit unbreakable when there is more than 1 person down.
Whenever I have more than 1 Survivor on the ground, it's usually because I've downed one in a pallet and I've had to down two others nearby before I can pick up, because the team's been hovering around for beamer or pallet saves and they won't leave the area.
So I wouldn't want a solution that might let a Survivor get back up for free in this situation, because they've obviously screwed up badly here. This is why it's so difficult for BHVR to come up with a good solution.
Maybe implementing a weaker version of base-kit tenacity with some endurance on pick up could be a way to go, so that a Killer can't easily camp slugs and Survivors then have an opportunity to crawl away to some safety for a pick up. Could be problems I've not considered with that idea too. Honestly, I don't know what the best solution is.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Eh, it makes sense considering that Killer Instinct provides incredibly good information. It's already very difficult to hide from a Frenzying Legion, and the best window to do so is before they've hit anyone. Adding Scratch Mark visibility to their power would make this even harder.
Legion is already very easy to pick up, and I don't think they should be made easier, but there's the argument to be made that adding back Blood Pools during Frenzy would be helpful at tracking Survivors you've already hit, which doesn't really make it harder to evade Frenzy itself. I'd say Blood Pools, yes, Scratch Marks, maybe not.
Either way, it's an incredibly minor buff, and I don't think it's worth putting too much focus on. There's a lot more pressing things that make Legion bad, mainly that their basekit is still very subpar. Frenzy could probably do with a duration buff for sure.
One of the ways I think they could buff Joey's Mix tape (easily one of their worst add-ons, in my opinion) is to give it a secondary bloodhound like function of allowing you to see bright red blood pools of blood while in frenzy. It would give the add-on a bit more utility / value against Survivors that are comfortable being injured (plus, maybe they don't want to give Legion a base-kit buff like this for "free").
I thought about making a post to suggest it but to be honest, I think add-on and perk changes are the kind of feedback that BHVR are least likely to listen to, so I never bothered.
But I will say this, one of the most frustrating things that can happen when playing Legion is losing track of a Survivor just before that final 5th hit down because you lost sight of them when they turned a corner and now you suddenly have no way to find them anymore. Being able to see scratch marks or blood pools would mitigate this a little and let The Legion get downs a little more often.
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I've made the argument before that it would be a bad idea to make changes that would reward the very play styles that you are trying to discourage. Allowing Survivors to bleed out quickly is exactly what that does; reward Killers for slugging the entire team with an even quicker victory. If your only defense as a Survivor is to lose quicker, that's not a very good solution.
I'm not 100% sold on base-kit unbreakable when all 4 Survivors are still in the game, though. After all, it's a high risk, high reward strategy that can still backfire, even against a Solo Q team. But I also think it's unrealistic or unfair to expect at least 1 player in Solo Q to potentially waste a perk slot on UB or Soul Guard to combat a strategy that more often than not Solo Q disproportionately suffers against.
I'm not sure there is an ideal solution to the kind of hardcore slugging that feels like a cheesy short cut to a win, especially one that allows Killers to ignore the 3 hook states that are a core fundamental part of the game's design. But I hope BHVR can come up with something that feels fair to both sides, which is what I think they've mostly achieved with base-kit BT and the AFC system. Survivor perks should offer an optional extra layer of defense against certain Killer strategies, but they should never begin to feel necessary just to play the game you queued up for. That always feels bad.
I'd rather BHVR didn't have to add something to deal with 4 man slugging, but if they do add some form of base-kit UB, it will be because we've gotten to the point that it's actually become a necessary evil.
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I do sometimes worry that it's maybe a bit too easy to amass a huge number of add-ons as Killer. This is potentially problematic if those add-ons are way too strong, make an already strong Killer ever more OP, or might be considered unfun or unfair to go up against.
On my Legion for example, I don't have any less than 150 of each Iri add-on and well over 2000 of the more common ones. I can pretty much run whatever combination of add-ons and perks I want to and I will never, ever run out so long as I'm willing to keep spending the BP. Of course, you can argue there should be a reward for dumping most of your BP into one character. After all, I've made a conscious choice to make sure my Legion is well stocked up.
At the moment, I like to run the Iri button with Julie's mix tape and while I don't think this is especially strong compared to what some Killers can bring, it does considerably improve their chase power. Since I build mostly around chase perks, I rationalise that this is ultimately fair because I'm banking on getting faster downs to make up for sacrificing some of Legion's slowdown potential. But who knows if my build might feel unfair or annoying to some of the Survivors I play against? At the other end of the scale, there's Mischief List (another favourite) that feels borderline necessary if you want to be able to consistently chain frenzy hits. It doesn't do much more than make the Legion's most basic game play somewhat viable against the better Survivor teams.
Add-ons can change the character of a Killer and I think that's pretty cool. It makes for more variety and can accommodate more play styles. I guess what I'm really saying is that BHVR need to be extra careful with Killer add-ons. Generally speaking, I think they do a good job of listening to feedback from the player base when things are considered too strong or too frustrating to go up against. It just takes them a long time sometimes to make changes.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880473#Comment_3880473
Same, I recently went through my survivors and did all the charms that are respective to the character (Scroll of Toscano, Howling Fire, and A Dreadful Deed) on my Vittorio for example. ☠️
I think it gives character and a nice little sentiment. I don't really care for hiding, so I don't really find myself being in situations where my charms give me away. They're so minute, but a nice little addition anyways. Wish they'd add more character based ones. I even got the little Martini Glass and the slots machine on Ace because I see him drinking alcohol and gambling at the slot machines lol.
Lol, I have the exact same charms on my Ace as well.
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@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881344#Comment_3881344
To be fair to BHVR, we represent a tiny fraction of the player base (and a weirdly dedicated one at that).So while a majority on the forums might be dead set against adding bots to 2 Vs 8, there might not be a huge negative reaction beyond here.This is definitely a possibility.
I suspect a lot of Survivors in 2 Vs 8 are pretty new to the role anyway and bots might be a little bit more active as teammates.This creates its own problems.
1: Bots don't play fair (kind of obvious being they aren't humans). If they actually pose a challenge to killers, that's not really fun either. I neither want to play against or be carried by a wall hacking bot.
2: There's a difference between being angry at another human, and being angry at code. The first scenario is part of multiplayer games, the second makes you angry at the devs themselves.
They're probably going to be more like the ones on live servers and less like the ones in custom matches, so I doubt they will be too difficult for most Killers to deal with.
That said, I do wish maybe they'd tried something else before resorting to bots, even if it is the most obvious and easy solution.
Anyway, I don't take 2 Vs 8 very seriously and the games are typically so short that wining or losing won't matter so much if queues are quick enough for both sides to get a game. But if it still makes almost no difference to queue times then I would be against bots in 2 Vs 8.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
well, looks like this is confirmed by BHVR. I am 100% out. This is a terrible idea and many, many others on the forum have expressed this opinion as well. We are ruining the survivor experience to give killers a little bit shorter queues. It’s very sad because I had a lot of fun playing 2v8 (both killer and survivor) during previous events.
Honestly I don’t know why anyone bothers to provide feedback on anything. BHVR have shown time and time and time again that they are going to do what they want regardless of how the community responds. You know what would result in even shorter queue times for killers? Having all 8 survivor players be bots. Why don’t we just do that?@Nathan13 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881306#Comment_3881306
yeah exactly, these DBD developers should be embarrassed of themselves. They do nothing but wanna divide each side and only care about taking our money instead of looking at the bigger picture. We try to speak out about the BS that happens in this game and they silence us. They don’t care about what we think. Because at the end of the day if players keep giving them money they won’t do anything to make this game better. It’s time to show them we’ve had enough.
To be fair to BHVR, we represent a tiny fraction of the player base (and a weirdly dedicated one at that).
So while a majority on the forums might be dead set against adding bots to 2 Vs 8, there might not be a huge negative reaction beyond here. Lots of games already use bots to shorten queues, so it's not going to be a big deal to a lot of players.
Besides, I don't think the bots will be as bad as people think. I suspect a lot of Survivors in 2 Vs 8 are pretty new to the role anyway and bots might be a little bit more active as teammates. It's such a chaotic, low stakes, casual mode that many players probably find it to be a good way to dip their toe into playing Survivor for the first time.
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@sirlemonhead said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3880751#Comment_3880751
You mean they added 'A' UK server, along with EU West ;)
Yeah, I probably should have worded that better. Obviously Dublin isn't the UK. I just meant there's now another server for UK players to play on (and I'm still pretty far away from it).