thesuicidefox
thesuicidefox
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If we do I hope we get another chance to earn the Wolf mask. I got screwed last time because the game would crash every time I played killer.
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@DeKillerKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965460#Comment_965460
My tactic for Freddy is probably different than yours because I typically don't rely a lot on Snares. They're great and can help get easy hits, but I don't rely on them.
I rely on my teleporation ability which is why I use BBQ & Chili and Discordance as a combo. It will continuously let me know which generators survivors are working on. Or which direction a survivor is going so I can go for an ambush with a gen teleport.
Typically on a normal playthrough of a game, I place Snares around safe loops during the start of a match so I could catch survivors there when they fall asleep. When chasing, I try to go for a hit and run tactic. Make sure everyone's asleep so I can teleport more often and they are more scared of me placing snares. (I've seen survivors run away by just me initiating the animation, it works well enough for me)
I used to use Brutal Strength in place of STBFL but I find that STBFL just makes it so much more easier to end a chase and starting a new one right after. Brutal Strength used to be my combo wtih PGTW but STBFL just makes it so I can focus more on the chase (which is what I typically do whenever I play killer, I don't like to just gen patrol or stealth. I want the chase.)
I also use STBFL over Brutal Strength because typically I think the lower attack cooldown makes up more time compared to Brutal Strength. With Brutal Strength, you'll save time most when there are still pallets to break. Since Freddy is an M1 Killer, his main attack is all he can do to damage survivors. Meaning you'll get more stacks on STBFL naturally. Meaning you'll get full stacks in no time. Meaning you'll start shredding down survivors as if you have permanent Mad Grit.
Good post.
Yea what I was saying about STBFL is just mostly that you don't need it if you spam snares. I am literally placing them constantly. At loops. In the middle of the corn field. Near gens. In tall grass. In random paths I know survivors will take (I'm a survivor main). The idea is to scare them into making mistakes or assuming I might always pay attention to them (or better train them to think I will ignore the screams), and to track them. If you can keep tabs on survivors you know where to pressure them and zone them.
When it comes to a chase, I spam them around loops. Most loops you can use just 1 or 2 well placed snares to end the chase quickly, but some like god window loops (eg. Ironworks) require maybe 4 or so. When you catch a survivor on the second go around a god loop, or super quickly around jungle gym loops, it is really demoralizing to them.
I also sometimes use snares to track when they wake up at clocks. I found putting them in front of clocks can let you know when and where they woke up, so you can go back to hit them to put them back to sleep.
I don't use Brutal either, just saying if I had to pick a chase perk it would be that because survivors tend to drop pallets early, plus it combos nice with PGTW. I'm really not a fan of STBFL at all because it requires you to fully ignore the obsession, which good survivors can take advantage of. Also because it's an obsession perk and I'd prefer to not have those so that I know when a DS is actually in play or not. The only killer I use an obsession perk on often is my primary Spirit build (Dying Light, Thana, Sloppy, Stridor) and in that case I really don't give an F if you have DS because I will just eat it and catch you 10 seconds later.
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@Hex_KillerMainBTW said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/967581#Comment_967581
So do you mean a native american like a Mayan or Aztec? That would be pretty sick. The mori could be taking out their heart of something with the weapon. Granted, I know that was typically the priests that did that in human sacrifice rituals.
No more like Cherokee or Apache.
Mayan/Aztec is pre-history type of native American. I want a more 18th century.
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I just asked Umbra on her stream and she said that she took down a lot of videos because they were 720p or lower quality and she wants to maintain a certain level of quality on her YT channel.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/967426#Comment_967426
They'd have to be verrrrry careful with something like that. I feel like they could offend a lot of people very easily. In some ways, it's even more dangerous territory than making a religious killer would be (and Plague doesn't count because her race, culture and religion are long gone, so no one is around to get offended by it).
As long as they are somewhat true to history I don't see a problem with it. I think it's pretty dope some of the badass native American warriors. The face paint, the weapons, the outfits, their tactics in warfare. Other games have done it with no issues (Killer Instinct's Eagle and Thunder come to mind).
Honestly if people get offended by it that's their problem.
@Hex_KillerMainBTW said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/967426#Comment_967426
Maybe something like a wendigo. Like shape shifting abilities (only with the power)
Wendigo would be cool too. But a native American warrior seems more interesting to me.
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@PistolTimb said:
A French killer or survivor would be nice, as my family came from France over a century ago. I'm not in touch with a whole lot of folklore, though. Not even sure what a fitting French killer would be.
Jack the Ripper would be an excellent fit, I think anyway. He's not French, but there's lot of interesting things they could do with a real life killer.
Jack The Ripper would be a sick killer. And I don't think there's any copyright so the devs could use it, though I imagine they would rather go with a Ripper clone than the actual Ripper.
Maybe after he downs a survivor he can harvest.... something from them to increase his power. Then he can do something with it, IDK what.
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I think a native America killer would be cool. Someone who was a warrior during the time when America was first being colonized. He would be a bit like Nurse or Plague where he is not a malicious killer, just someone that kills for what they believe to be the greater good.
And if we are going with American history, a Civil War era soldier as survivors, specifically someone from the Confederacy. Kind of like the kind of person you'd almost cheer to have killed in a horror movie. IDK it would be interesting to me to see that. Plus it seems cliche to go with the Union for this kind of stuff honestly.
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@oxygen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/967365#Comment_967365
I just have to say that you shouldn't be talking about logical platforms and invalid arguements when you've constantly thrown out assumptions and discarded them whenever they turned out to be untrue, until you're down to "you need your crutch" and clinging to your appeal to authority.
Please stop being so concerned with proving people's opinions "invalid" or finding a reason to make it justified to disregard their opinion. You're not talking to flat earthers, you're talking to people that disagree with you about a perk in DBD.
#FACTS
@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/967376#Comment_967376
You:
If you really have this much of a problem with DS sorry to say you can't be that good of a killer.
Your little metaphorical excerpt is backwards. It's not me claiming that it's true because they are on my side. It's you saying I'm bad for believing these things. So, I repeat. Would you like to elaborate on how you came to the conclusion that because I have these beliefs about DS, I must not be a good killer? Cause the people I listed believe the exact same thing I do on the subject of DS. By association, because you consider me bad for having that belief (which is literally what you said in so many words), you must consider them bad too.
I would like you to elaborate on that instead of hiding from it for the 10th time. I'm genuinely interested in how you retract or try to explain that one away instead of relying on a metaphorical phrase that does not pertain to the claim you made. Address it, or stop.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/967382#Comment_967382
Unlike him - it's not his beliefs I take issue with on DS. It's his notion that somehow, hitting a DS skillcheck is "outplaying" anyone. It's not. That's the biggest issue I have.
Except I never once said "hitting a skill check is outplaying someone". I even explicitly state what IS the outplay, and that is baiting the killer to grab you/pick you up.
As for the first part, I question it because you can easily play around DS as killer. I do it all the time. I see other killers do it all the time. All at rank 1. So if you have THAT much of a problem with DS, it has to be because either you aren't very good at killer and get baited into DS all the time, or you tunnel a lot. Because any good killer knows how to play around it. They can still get frustrated with it, but it doesn't change the fact they regularly counter play the perk. Like I get frustrated when I play against a killer with NOED, but I'm not going to demand changes to NOED when I consistently destroy all the totems on the map.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/967361#Comment_967361
But let's talk about all those killers that are bad for believing the same thing I do? Let's talk about that, which you, once again, ignored. :D
"All these people believe the Earth is flat just like me. Therefore the Earth is flat."
I'm sure you see why this isn't a real argument, and why I'm not even bothering to waste my time arguing it.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/967357#Comment_967357
"Hitting a DS skill check is an out play".
Thanks - that's all I needed to hear.
K-E-K.
No, baiting the killer to grab you/pick you up is the outplay.
LOL
Where did I ever say this? Stop twisting my argument to fit your narrative.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/967328#Comment_967328
- No, it's not. Cause that person can be gotten up with no penalty in a matter of seconds. Your argument is invalid.
- Questioning what you say is an attack now. Okay then, chief. OOF. 🙄 Thanks for confirming my suspicions about you.
- Yes, everything you've said is outrageous. Seriously, man. Just stop. You tossed the debate out the window when you refered to running into the killer and abusing the fact that you're invincible with DS a "good play", and having the gall to defend it like you're outplaying the killer in any way by hitting a god skill check. All that it really does is expose how broken the perk is for the game. You've even gone on to say killers who have that much of a problem with DS must not be good, when all the best killers who play the game (Marth, Tru3, Otz, Zubat etc) have the beliefs that I do. You still didn't address that, smart move on your part glossing over that. I wouldn't go down that rabbit hole either.
Give up, dude. Keep on keeping on with your DS, while you still can. You can say you don't use it all you want, I don't believe it for a second (there's that ad hominem attack again).
LOL dude I keep telling you I don't even use DS. Stop assuming things you can't prove.
They don't get up "in a matter of seconds". It takes 16 seconds to heal them, and 32 seconds to heal themselves. The former is extended if you have anti-heal perks such as Sloppy. The only way they get up fast is if they have Unbreakable or two survivors heal them, at which point you have 3 survivors not doing gens. So yea that's a lot of pressure. Still haven't even acknowledged the Bubba speed limiter run where he slugs for a 4k pretty much every game because it's super effective. Selective reading at its best.
You never questioned my arguments you question my experience in the game and my skill. So yea, ad hominem.
If you bait the killer to pick you up or grab you, that is an outplay because the killer didn't have to do that. If the killer falls for that bait it's their own fault. It's not the fault of the perk or the player for trying to maximize their perk. Survivors with DS make ballsy plays that are super obvious DS plays. Maybe don't fall for obvious tricks?
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/967269#Comment_967269
Slugging is not a counter play. It does not stop it. It only postpones it; and if the exit gates are opened, you can't even slug. They'll just crawl out the door. "Counter play". That's like saying "Counterplay to Clown is to drop the pallet early!". No. Just no. Smart move avoiding calling some of the best killer mains in the community bad for believing what I believe. I wouldn't go there either if I were you. Your argument is so outrageous that it's put me and @Sairek on the same page; and me and that guy don't agree on anything.
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Also - ad hominem doesn't mean what you think it means.
"an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made"
I haven't personally attacked you once; and no, telling you you're wrong repeatedly, and why, is not an attack. I'm very careful with my words. I've stayed on topic, not made any insults, threats or otherwise anything that could even be considered an attack. So don't go playing the victim card.
1) Slugging very much is counter play. When you slug you generate pressure similar to a hook. You avoid getting DS'd and resetting said pressure by having a survivor running around freely. Again Scott's Bubba speed limiter 4k spree he slugs like crazy and wins a lot of those games because of it.
2) Questioning how much I play killer or saying that I don't know what I'm talking about because I don't play killer or whatever is very much ad hominem.
3) There is nothing outrageous about my argument. My argument is that you can play around DS just fine and it doesn't need to be changed. Your argument is that you can't play around DS (which is false) and needs to be gutted to be so circumstantial to be pretty much worthless. You can tell me whatever else you want until you are blue in the face, but that's what it is.
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IDK about an option to change the volume yourself, but yes they need to turn down the screams. If you wear a headset and hook certain survivors you go deaf. Jane I'm looking at you.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/967244#Comment_967244
So persistent on making excuses for it, and going against what the devs have said (that it's intended function is anti-tunnel)...but doesn't use it. Surrrre there bud. We all believe you.
Hey, I get it. You need your free escape, and that's okay. You lost the debate long ago when you called it a "good play" to parade around the killer in superman mode because you're invulnerable. It's not a good play. You're hitting a skill check. It's not a play, and you're not outplaying anyone. Survivors like you are the same ones who complain about being left on the ground and slugged, but you'll make up all the excuses in the world for DS. "Must not be a good killer". OOF. There's killer mains out there who you both run circles around you in survivor AND killer, who have issues with DS existing. Are you saying Marth isn't good? Otz isn't good? Tru3 isn't good? Monto? Edgar?
Yeah, all top tier killers, must all be bad. No, the truth is, it's survivors who rely on DS that aren't that good at the game.
Just stop. You don't have a logical platform to stand on.
You will never win this debate. It's a logical impossibility.
Well I'm not the one complaining about a perk that has easy counter play. Or the one that doesn't seem to understand the concept of alternative uses.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Plus like I said I don't even use DS.
Maybe instead of ad hominems you should try presenting actual arguments.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966882#Comment_966882
How the hell is making a perk with the intended design to be used for defense against tunneling -- not only being primarily restricted for that actual use, possibly "gutting" the perk?
Hate to tell you this, but "S tier" perks are not balanced. The literal existence of DS alone makes killers have to consider playing the game differently even if nobody has it actually equipped as long as an obsession exists.
If you think that DS would be useless because it cannot be used to literally bully killers anymore, then I think that just shows how badly designed the perk truly is.
MoM got nerfed because it was an S tier perk with a huge upside with literally no downside that made the survivors incredibly strong with no realistic counterplay. DS is not much different. It's just a lot more subtle about it. Being slugged isn't the same equivalence as being put on the hook. There's a lot less pressure on the survivors, the killer isn't working towards their objective, there are plenty of perks for survivors so they aren't so helpless when they are slugged, and slugging a survivor doesn't actually deal with DS because the next time they get unhooked you're going to have to deal with the perk again and "just eat the DS" isn't a counter either, no more than a survivor shouldn't have to "just eat" a hatchet being thrown in their face.
It would be useless because you could counter it without even trying. MOM needed a nerf but it doesn't change the fact they gutted the perk to basically F tier. You wanna talk about S tier not being balanced, well neither is F tier. Point is DS has counter play NOW, very fair and balanced counter play. Slug them. Simple as that. Or eat the DS early in the game so it's not a problem later. It's really not that hard to do.
And yes slugging generates a ton of pressure. Equal to a hook most of the time. Again just watch Scott's Bubba speed limiter 4k spree. He slugs like crazy and wins games purely because of it.
@Purple_Orc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966782#Comment_966782
I agree with you here. This killer was baited and he was punished for it. But hitting the unhooking survivor is not a reliable solution. The meat shield hitbox are too big.
There have been quite a number of times I've stood behind the unhooker hit him only for both survivors to run off unharmed.
This is a different issue, but still you can hit down the rescuer pretty consistently. Sometimes the game screws you with janky hitboxes, but 99% of the time you will just down the rescuer. Whenever it gets fixed this wouldn't even be a talking point.
The Spirit in the video provided could have simply hit down the Steve instead of grabbing him. Grabbing was the absolute WORSE decision to make. If he just hit him, that's 1 survivor down and 1 in a chase that's gonna end in 15 seconds pretty much guaranteed because he's Spirit and literally right on top of the guy at the start of the chase. He just needs to wait out BT.
I actually don't even use DS dude. If you really have this much of a problem with DS sorry to say you can't be that good of a killer. It is very easy to play around.
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@Almo said:
Kindred is not supposed to have its "trump" exception anymore. If it is in fact showing a Killer with Undetectable, that is a bug. If you have a good repro of it, please note it in the bug forum! :)
I will see what I can do. If you watch the entire video you can see Bubba's aura at 2:47, and then you can see he had Insidious at the end of the game (and he doesn't move at all from 2:47 onward but the aura is constant the entire time).
Whether this video is before or after this change I'm not sure but I'm fairly positive it is after. I'll try it in a custom game if I can.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966882#Comment_966882
If it's an anti tunnel perk, how is it being gutted by making it only come into play if you're being tunneled? That's it's intended purpose. Would your ability to "outplay" (skillcheck KEK) the killer be hindered if you couldn't throw yourself at him to make him "tunnel" you?
I have nearly 3500 hours in game. 20% of that being killer is far more than you have. Try again, chief.
A killer should NOT have to play around DS if the survivor is throwing themselves at the killer. If you are going out of your way to take a hit (such as a protection hit), you should be forfeiting your DS. It will happen eventually; and then players who abuse it will end up at green ranks, where they belong, because they can't "outplay" the killer with a skillcheck anymore.
I have 3k hours so LOL at you trying to flex on me with any kind of experience.
"If it's an anti tunnel perk, how is it being gutted by making it only come into play if you're being tunneled?"
Because regardless of how you have the game even calculate this, a killer can exploit it. Or you, as survivor, get robbed of your perk for something another survivor did that was out of your control.
Also it's not explicitly an anti-tunnel perk. Stop using this argument. It's main purpose may be such, but that doesn't mean it can't have alternative uses. See my Billy chainsaw point.
"A killer should NOT have to play around DS if the survivor is throwing themselves at the killer."
Yes they should. In fact if a survivor is doing this it's like a dead giveaway that they are doing it because of DS. Don't take the bait. It's really not that hard. If you do it's your own fault for getting hit with DS.
Case and point, I played against some friends maybe a month ago as Huntress. They didn't know it was me because I was playing on an alternate account (which BTW is also red rank killer). One friend unhooks another right in my face and they both kind of run together into Ormond house. I chase them both, really only going for the one that saved, and the one that got saved jumped into a locker. So I reload at the locker next to her and continue to chase my other friend. I ended up letting them go because we are friends, but I could have won the game if I wanted to. She screamed at me for not letting her DS me out of the locker, so when I got her in another game the next day I made sure to tunnel her super hard so she could DS me for LOLs (still let her go again). Point being, she jumped in a locker A CLEAR AND OBVIOUS SIGN OF DS, so I just left her in there and chased someone else. Had I been playing to kill them all I would have do it without even needing to care about DS at all.
If you take the bait, it's your fault. PERIOD.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966845#Comment_966845
Except the definition I stated (which is the correct definition) doesn't serve me. It's actually a pretty neutral to both sides. I'm not the one trying to twist it to suit my agenda. Keep trying, chief. I'll shoot you down every time. You can not win this debate. It's literally impossible for you to come out on top here.
😎
EDIT: I'm a survivor main. 80% of my hours are survivor. That doesn't make me blind to balance.
It does serve you because you want to nerf DS according to that definition, which is impossible to do anyway.
Also are you saying you don't play enough killer to have an opinion? More irony.
I'm also a survivor main. Rank 1. So tell me what makes me "blind" to balance LOL.
Fact remains, a killer can play around DS. I do it all the time. I see other killers do it when I'm survivor. It's not that hard.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966839#Comment_966839
I will bring it up, because it's annoying, happens way too much and I don't believe encouraging such behavior is ultimately healthy for the game. DS is so good and so broad in its crutch, that it literally makes survivors play stupid so they can purposely get downed to stun the killer and get a free health state back and there is logically nothing the killer can do stop situations like this most of the time. That doesn't come off as healthy game design to me.
We already know what the intentions of the perk are. They've already said it. It was designed to be "anti tunnel", with cases where the killer would get punished by the perk being "may not even happen". Unfortunately, killers being punished by DS without even tunneling is not the exception -- it's the norm.
So then gutting a perk to have such strict conditions that any brain dead killer can ignore it completely is good design? It's MOM all over again.
Just don't take the bait. I don't know how much more simply I can state this. Slug the survivor. Eat the DS if it is earlier enough. You can play around it. Stop acting like you are completely helpless, you are not.
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If I need to pee or feed my cat. Otherwise no, not really.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966794#Comment_966794
Well it was changed to have the undetectable status effect on December in the 3.4.0 patch notes. I can't get the exact date due to it just saying December 2019 as a whole...
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/108852/
Anyways, if the game was around Christmas and the update was a bit before or after... than it's unknown if this game too place before or after the insidious perk update...
Regardless, if it was before the patch THAN it makes sense why it doesn't work on Kindred since it didn't before... if it takes place AFTER the patch than it must be working off of how Kindred was before they changed it to not trump any stealth abilities.
Or maybe by stealth abilities they mean the Killers undetectable status effect and not perks like Insidious... its just too uncertain to know for sure tbh and I personally don't know for sure.
Dude, the game was recent. Like within a week. So unless the devs did some shadow update in the last 7 days, something is wrong based on what @Almo said above. No need to keep theory crafting just wait for his response.
According to the video, Kindred trumps Undetectable of Insidious. According to my own experience, Kindred does not trump Undetectable of Wraith/Ghostface. According to the dev that posted above, Kindred is NOT supposed to trump Undetectable.
Either it does or it doesn't or it's bugged. Let's wait for an official response if any.
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It depends. If you have enough challenges to do still you can make it. If not then you maybe could do it if you just play non-stop from here until it ends.
More than likely you are gonna have to buy a few tiers.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966819#Comment_966819
No, that is THE definition. The only correct one. If you or anyone else believes otherwise, you are wrong. Period.
That's the thing with you guys. You manipulate and manufacturer your own definitions for things to serve you; and you go out of your way to defend scummy plays at any cost.
I'm sorry that you're wrong. I really am. Please, go play more killer, than I'll continue to acknowledge you. There's no sense debating with someone with a one-sided mindset who doesn't know what tunneling, or balance is 🖐️
It's not the definition. It's your definition.
"You manipulate and manufacturer your own definitions for things to serve you; and you go out of your way to defend scummy plays at any cost."
The irony here is immense.
"Please, go play more killer, than I'll continue to acknowledge you."
LOL so playing killer at rank 1 for over a year is not enough? Sure pal.
"There's no sense debating with someone with a one-sided mindset who doesn't know what tunneling, or balance is"
Even more ironic than before.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966735#Comment_966735
I'll preface by saying that first off, it's not my video.
Second, in order to smack the Steve twice, the killer needs to willingly walk backwards, perform a lunge attack, and then smack them again.
DS shouldn't be able to be "baited" like this at all. If you make a stupid play such as being grabbed while in the middle of unhooking someone, then you are *very clearly* not being tunneled. I don't care what someone has to do to counter it. I care that a killer has to play around like this at all in the first place or that the perk enables survivors to do ######### like this and get away with it. It's stupid. I do it myself as survivor all the time. Even if I get slugged on the ground, that's a long time the killer no longer has someone on the hook, which is still a net gain for survivors and a net loss for the killer through no fault of their own.
Dude I know how lunge and grabs work. It's not hard at all to lunge instead of grab. If he just swung earlier he would have avoided it.
And stop bringing up this "you're not getting tunneled if" nonsense. It might be the intended purpose, but that doesn't mean it has to be the ONLY purpose. Chainsaw might be intended to be used to instadown a survivor, but that doesn't mean Billy can't also use it to get around the map faster. This is such a weak argument, there is such a thing as alternative uses.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966782#Comment_966782
It doesn't matter what the community believes it is. Tunneling has a definition.
Tunneling - when the killer ignores everyone else to go after one person, and only that one person, until they are dead.
That is tunneling. Any other BS manufactured definition is incorrect. It was NOT a smart play on his part. That shouldn't even BE a play if DS is an *anti tunnel* perk. It was a cocky play, and abuse of the perk. He knew he was invulnerable. He didn't outplay anyone. He hit a damn skillcheck, that's all he did.
Stop trying to defend it. It makes you look continuously worse. You don't have a valid opinion until you play killer for a while and realize that DS isn't used as anti tunnel. It's used as a superman perk, and that's all it's used for. So get back to me when you play killer at red ranks for a few weeks. Then I'll acknowledge your opinion; and actually do it. Don't just say "Well I play both sides". Nobody who truly plays both sides thinks like you do. Period.
That's your definition. If we poll the community there would be a lot of definitions. Regardless, how do you even program the game to recognize your definition in the first place? What if they don't hit another survivor it's counts? Okay then I just smack someone else. They don't chase someone else? Okay I just look at another survivor, they run, start chase, I continue to tunnel, that chase ends, now I'm not tunneling.
Like really whatever you come up with as a measure of tunneling in the game's terms I could easily find a work around. I guarantee it.
And yes it was a smart play. He did that to bait the killer to grab. She took the bait. His plan worked. Had she just hit him twice it wouldn't have worked. He would be slugged, she would run off and get downed in 16 seconds. Killer comes back and picks him up now that his DS is gone. Waits for Nea's DS to go. Just got 2 kills easy. But no he grabbed and got DS'd. There was no abuse of the perk at all when she could have played around it by just putting some thought into the situation.
BTW I play several killers at rank 1 for over a year now. Some examples...
thesuicidefox playing Dead by Daylight: Special Edition. View more XboxOne clips at XboxClips.comPS Legion is not really that weak
thesuicidefox playing Dead by Daylight: Special Edition. View more XboxOne clips at XboxClips.comthesuicidefox playing Dead by Daylight: Special Edition. View more XboxOne clips at XboxClips.comthesuicidefox playing Dead by Daylight: Special Edition. View more XboxOne clips at XboxClips.comthesuicidefox playing Dead by Daylight: Special Edition. View more XboxOne clips at XboxClips.comPS. Was only using NOED as an experiment. Normally I run Ruin on Trapper.
thesuicidefox playing Dead by Daylight: Special Edition. View more XboxOne clips at XboxClips.comPS. Not rank 1 yet, but this was maybe a week after a reset.
If you want you can watch more here https://xboxclips.com/thesuicidefox/
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965531#Comment_965531
It was talked about before that Insidious is trumped by Kindred, I believe later on it was given the undetectable status effect... but unless that video is before the change than it still seems to counter it.
How recent is that video?
Well considering that he is even using Kindred it has to be after the Dec 3rd patch.
And I'm fairly sure that he uploads games to Youtube within a week. This match was from just around Christmas at the latest, and we haven't had any updates since Dec 11th.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966735#Comment_966735
OR, DS should not proc if you throw yourself at the killer like that Steve did. If it's anti-tunnel, it should only proc when the killer is tunneling you - which is a pretty black and white, cut and dry condition. You have no idea what balance is.
Dude, the community can't even agree what tunneling actually is. Therefore it would be impossible to even program such a thing. No to mention the fact that whatever formula you come up with will likely be abused heavily by one side. See Deep Wounds.
The Steve did that knowing he couldn't be stopped. It was a smart play on his part because he was taking full advantage of his perk. Spirit grabbed him like a bot. She fell for the bait. Had she just hit him twice she would have avoided that entirely. Now instead of 2 injured survivors running around, she has 1 slugged and is in a chase with another which she should be able to win easily in 10 seconds as Spirit, 15 if she were smart to wait out BT.
Stop defending killers making dumb decisions. Survivors make ballsy plays like this expecting the killers to take the bait. If you don't take the bait you just counter played them.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/966687#Comment_966687
I understand no one really abuses non-god windows, that's why my main focus was on god windows. By allowing them to come back over time, it sort of defeats the purpose of what I suggested because you aren't completely getting rid of it.
You're right though, the old maps are the ones suffering from the god windows "problem". Which is another reason I suggested this idea, so the devs aren't just creating maps with super unsafe loops (Hawkings), and actually feel like they can create strong loops without the fact that they can be used indefinitely being a hindering problem for the killer.
I definitely think there is something interesting about your suggestion from an atmospheric standpoint. Because it makes the structures feel old and like they can crumble at any point...which is kind of scary. lol
Well that's my point. How do we define a god window? Like I mention, some windows only become god windows if they spawn next to specific tiles in specific orientations. Any system we come up with is going to be highly subjective, and there will be some windows that are "borderline" where it's like "do we apply this mechanic here or not?"
It's just way way easier to have a universal mechanic. No need to identify god windows in every possible permutation of tile arrangements. No need to have a strange mechanic that inconsistently applies here and not there. It's just how windows work, period.
Having them come back is necessary though, because if they didn't some areas would just be complete dead zones. Again the goal should be to prevent abuse of the windows. If it gets run at the start and end of the game, a total of like 8 vaults, that's honestly entirely acceptable. These windows only become a problem when they are used repeatedly throughout the game as a safe zone for survivors. We don't want safe zones, but we also want to avoid dead zones. Having them repair after a certain amount of time is fine because you are still putting a limit on how much safety these windows provide.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965943#Comment_965943
Slugging does not equal hooking. I get no points for slugging and hardly any pressure. Unbreakable is fairly common these days, and, I get maybe 25 seconds with that person on the ground.
You are very biased towards the Survivor side. I would absolutely be willing to make the DS timer indefinite, during the regular game (not EGC), with the trade off I proposed above.
It punishes people who hard tunnel, but it cannot be abused by Survivors looking for their 60 seconds of immunity.
Slugging actually does create a lot of pressure. If they do not have Unbreakable then someone needs to come heal them. That's equal to someone coming to save off the hook, except that it takes longer to heal someone off the ground than it does to pull them off the hook, especially if you have heal debuffs in effect.
I slug like crazy at rank 1 and have no issues creating pressure with it. No to mention that you save time not carrying the guy to a hook. In fact slugging is probably the MOST effective way to get a 4k. If you have a one shot like Billy, and a good tracking perk like Infectious, just go around and slug everyone. Chances are you will get the 4k super fast. That's how Zubat and Scott win a lot of their games that would have been a loss otherwise, they just slug everyone. Watch Scott's Bubba speed limiter 4k spree. He slugs like CRAZY. Pretty much every game was won by slugging at least 2 survivors at once.
And yes, there are exceptions where slugging might not be the best option, but more often it is.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965684#Comment_965684
The constant comparison by survivor mains between DS and NOED always makes me laugh. Apples to Oranges.
If you get killed by NOED, you are a mediocre at best survivor.
Simple as that. I NEVER get hit by NOED. I destroy totems. There's only 5. I do that for my team, and I pip nearly every game. Even if I die. How do you counter DS? There's no way to stop it from ever coming into play. In fact, survivors rub it in the killers face by throwing themselves at the killer knowing that in that moment, they are invincible.
OOF. Comparing those two perks.
KEK
DS should not proc if someone else has been hooked. As I stated, if someone else has been hooked, you are not being tunneled. That means the only time DS would come into play otherwise is if you're cocky and throw yourself at the killer. End of story.
"How do you counter DS?"
Slug them. Easy.
I really don't see why this is such a hard thing to do. It's 60 seconds. Slugging creates as much pressure as a hook, possibly more since it takes longer to heal a slug than rescue off the hook.
Alternatively you can just eat the DS if it is early enough. I really don't get this irrational fear of DS most killers have. If there are 4 gens left just eat the DS. Now you don't even need to worry about it later. If you play Nurse or Spirit you can catch the person again in like 10 seconds if you are good.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965731#Comment_965731
Please explain to me why this is fine the way it is?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpc6dcrH1NE&feature=emb_logo
Yes. The Steve did that knowing you would grab them like a bot. You should have just smacked him twice, left him slugged, then chased down the guy he saved and slugged them. By the time you do that and get back to Steve his DS would be gone. Easy kills.
Like this is such obvious DS bait it is 100% you fault for falling for it. Survivors don't do this kind of stuff unless they have DS, or are just a fool. If you are betting on them being a fool then you are actually the fool.
I support the OP. He makes valid points about why it's dumb to limit DS like that. DS is not that hard to play around. JUST SLUG THEM. It's not rocket science. Eat the DS if it's early enough to waste it even.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965476#Comment_965476
I understand the part about consistency, but these windows aren't like the rest IMO. In the sense that a killer literally has to break chase because once the entity unblocks it, the next survivor will run to it. Other windows don't have that kind of power.
The idea that every window could be destroyed just seems like a heavy nerf to me. I don't know if I could stand behind that. The reason people keep bringing up places like the Foundry, Grim Pantry, and even the Disturbed Ward as examples is because of the giant structure accompanied by the pallets set up in and around them.
So IMO, the big structures that can afford to lose a window could get this treatment.
I mean no disrespect, but I have a hard time following exactly what you are saying.
I specifically stated in the OP that I left the idea very open to see if anyone else wanted to add and give their own input. That's why I said that my visual was just an "example" of what could be implemented. So far you have yet to provide an example of a better idea or maybe you just don't think these windows are that problematic. Which is fine, you are entitled to that.
The thing is, no one is going to abuse non-god windows. If they get destroyed it's not really that big of a deal, especially if they repair themselves after a set time. Like if you somehow use a LT window too much and it gets destroyed you just move to another loop. It's not a big deal.
Like we would need an entire system of identiying god windows that is fair and consistent. Because not all windows at main structures are god windows. It just doesn't make sense for these specific windows to be affected.
And as I said, it creates a problem when new maps come out as we might not discover how strong a window is until after playing with it.
It just makes sense to have a universal mechanic. It would only really mainly affect the god windows that get abused, but it will still work on other windows if you try to abuse them too somehow.
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@Almo said:
Kindred no longer trumps Killer stealth abilities. It used to; we didn't want to keep this exception as we're making a very serious effort to clean up exceptions and inconsistencies so the game is a little easier to learn and balance.
Thanks for the feedback.
However I just saw this game today and it seems Kindred does trump Insidious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aHI7nh8B5g&ab_channel=TrU3Ta1entUnless this was somehow before such changes were made, but I'm fairly positive that True uploads his games to Youtube within a few days of the stream.
To be honest I'm fine with Kindred beating stealth abilities. You guys should reconsider this, maybe just add a stipulation to Kindred that states "Kindred will trump Undetectable." I know it's not consistent, but it's literally one perk and a perk that is mainly meant for solos and to counter hook camping. If anything maybe only have the effect take place when the one using Kindred is on the hook ("Kindred will trump Undetectable when you are hooked.").
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If you really want them to hate you, use Thana, Sloppy, Dying Light, Ruin. The game will go so slow for them once you start injuring them and getting hooks they will most likely end up in a downward spiral of constantly healing each other and never doing gens.
The problem with totems is that they can be taken out. If your friends have even mildly decent communication they can destroy all the totems and you are left with nothing. If they are clever enough they would just hide after they get Haunted. And the fact you only have 4 lit totems kind of gives away that you have NOED, so they could pick up on this.
The build above requires a bit more effort on your part to get rolling, but it way more reliable in terms of slowing the game. Once that snowball starts it is VERY hard to stop.
Though I have to wonder what your friends did to you that you want to do this to them LOL.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965460#Comment_965460
As I said, I don't know why he uses it, whether it's because he "needs" it to close chases or because it factors into his gameplay strategy more broadly. That's why I tagged him, so that he can explain for himself what he thinks is good about that particular build.
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to diss your friend, just pointing out that chase perks are redundant on Freddy and don't provide nearly as much of a benefit as they would other killers. I can end pretty much any chase at almost any loop against a full health survivor in less time than it takes to get Bloodlust 2 just by using snares properly.
The only chase perk I feel benefits Freddy enough to use is Brutal Strength, only because a lot of survivors tend to treat him sort of like Clown and drop the pallet early. But even then I wouldn't use it because you can just go around the pallet, spam snares, and still catch them. The only pallets where this isn't the case are god pallets like shack pallet.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965415#Comment_965415
I specifically focused on these type of windows because I don't think the others are as problematic.
Right but the devs aim for consistency. It honestly doesn't make sense for these specific windows to be affected by this mechanic and not others. It would be better to apply this to all windows, which then removes the "what defines a god window?" question from the equation and simplifies the whole thing.
Like when a new map comes out, how do we know what is a god window? How do we measure that? If a window is strong, at what point does it become a god window? We could find out after many hours of playing, but that's just janky honestly. It makes way more sense to have this as a universal mechanic, especially when you can have survivor or killer perks that work with this mechanic.
And like, sometimes a window is only a god window if it's arranged in a certain way next to a certain tile. Suffocation Pit potentially has several god windows in the middle area if the tiles spawn in the right orientation. Are we going to apply this mechanic to these specific windows in these specific orientations? How do we determine which orientations need the mechanic and which don't? Again it just makes the most sense to have a universal window mechanic of some kind.
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My build is BBQ, Thana, Pop, Discordance, Outdoor Rope, Sheep Block.
Thana + Rope will help to slow down the game. Hit a survivor and it's a 6% debuff to everything. If everyone is injured and asleep it's 18%. Basically Rope augments Thana to be a tad stronger than it normally is (which is pretty strong IMO if you can juggle injured survivors). BBQ/Discordance is to track survivors and gen progress. After a hook you use teleport + Pop to shut down the gen. When you factor in the slowdown from Thana + Rope that 25% is very significant (basically you knock off about 30s with Pop if everyone is injured and asleep, where it would be 20s without Thana + Rope).
Sheep Block is special. I've come to find that OOO specifically is a VERY hard counter to Freddy, as the obsession can always see you regardless of distance when they are asleep. Sheep Block inflicts 30s of Blindness which is all you need to get the advantage in a chase, as now looking at you in any form will only reveal their aura to you. It also helps against other aura perks, but it's mainly to beat OOO which is very difficult to play around otherwise as Freddy.
If you are less confident in your Freddy skills, you can use Jump Rope or Swing Chains instead of Outdoor Rope, and Unicorn Block instead of Sheep Block. You can use Red Paint Brush here and there, but I wouldn't use it too much because you won't see yourself improve as a Freddy. Better to save them for games where you think survivors might give you a hard time (eg. SWF).
Avoid dream pallets. They are fun from time to time, but they are WAY less reliable than snares. You can only place pallets in certain places, and they do nothing against window loops. Snares can be put anywhere and help at any loop at any time. Dream pallets are also very easy to play around if survivors know you have it. They either avoid pallets they aren't sure are real, or just run to windows. On certain maps you literally have no power in a chase, and it will suck.
@Fibijean said:
I have a friend who mains Freddy, has done since before his rework, and consistently gets 4Ks at rank 1 before a single generator has even popped.
His build, I believe, is Save The Best For Last, BBQ & Chili, Pop Goes The Weasel and Discordance.
I'll tag him in here in case he wants to chime in himself and explain his (obviously effective) strategy, but he might not reply for another 30 hours or so. @DeKillerKiller
IMHO, if you need STBFL on Freddy you must not be a good Freddy. In fact, you shouldn't need any chase perks at all on Freddy if you know how to use snares properly. It's like using NOED or MYC on one shot killers like Myers or Billy, it's super redundant and a waste of a perk slot. You are better off with game slowing or tracking perks as they would have an actual greater impact on your ability to control the game.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/965342#Comment_965342
I agree with 1 and 2. That's why I was open to ideas about how many "phases" the window could go through.
Still on the fence on 3, only because I feel like allowing multiple vaults while only making fast vaults count already seems strong enough IMO.
Well the goal should be to deter abuse of these windows. If someone uses it only at the very start and end of the game that's fine IMO. It's only when survivors use these windows throughout the entire game that they become a problem.
Also this should apply to all windows not just god windows for consistency, which is another reason why they should respawn after a certain amount of time.
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Dwight, no.
Kate, yes.
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I say it's only worth it if you want any of the cosmetics. I bought the Rift for the Nurse cosmetics. It's $10 which is what most purple rarity outfits cost, plus you get your money back based on how far you got. If you are at 64 you'd basically be paying like 50 cents or a dollar for it.
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A few things.
1) It should take more than 3 vaults to completely degrade the window. Maybe 5 or 6, just because the Entity blocks it after 3 vaults.
2) Only rushed vaults should count. If you slow vault the window it shouldn't count, just because sometimes you may want to slow vault a window out of a chase to save time moving around the map.
3) After the window is destroyed, there should be a timer to when it repairs itself. 60 or 90 seconds seems reasonable.
Otherwise I kind of like this idea.
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Yes.
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Only thing I will say is that there needs to be a min and max distance for the gates.
It's dumb when the gates spawn right next to each other.
It's dumb when the gates spawn clear across the map.
Example of how stupid the gates can be...
thesuicidefox playing Dead by Daylight: Special Edition. View more XboxOne clips at XboxClips.com -
@Quol said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/964715#Comment_964715
I never really liked Adrenaline. Sure its effect is nice but you need to play nearly the entire match with 3 perks for it to activate and even then its situational, you might just get exhausted for a useless speed boost, its really good when it works but otherwise... there are more reliable perks.
The thing is if you have Adren you can outright ignore healing almost all the time. That saves you a TON of time, letting you just rush gens.
The benefit in a chase is rare yes, but that's not the reason it's good.
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I would swap Adren and OOO, then move BT to S tier but yea basically this.
OOO is only really strong in SWF against non-stealth killers. Solo or against stealth killers it is good but definitely much weaker.
Adren is IMO the best survivor perk in the game. DS is a close second. Reason being is that killers can reliably play around DS while they can't do the same for Adren. If you happen to be chasing someone with Adren when the gens pop, that's it. They are gone. It also procs after gens pop if you were on a hook, and it let's survivors ignore healing to rush gens. DS might be more impactful on the game, but Adren is more consistent and negates certain tactics (eg. anti-heal).
Also Spine Chill is easy A tier, maybe S tier. It gives you so much info it's crazy.
Also also, while I love the new Kindred, and it is very good, I wouldn't rate it that high. Top of B tier at best only because there are alternatives like Bond or Aftercare that are really strong too.
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@deadbyhitbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/963385#Comment_963385
Like laurelstroodle said, I specifically said grass, not corn. I don't see how grass would be unfair at all. Also, the footsteps aren't that loud. By the time you hear them she's at around a 3-4m radius. You also have to factor in that chase music usually lingers while she's phasing and because it is so loud, you can't really even hear the footsteps. I think it needs to be slightly louder, but make it nondirectional. This would eliminate the stupid "stand still to win" strategy, while still actually giving the survivor some info to work with.
1) Grass and corn are likely considered the same type of object by Unreal Engine. Therefore, if they make it so she moves grass she will also move corn. If they want to make her ONLY move grass that would require them to redo how the game handles these objects, which is way more work than it's worth.
2) Even if that's not the case, it makes 0 sense she would move grass and not corn. The devs want consistency and what's consistent is that either both move or both don't. There is no in between.
3) Footsteps are plenty loud to know she is walking by you, as that is your cue to drop a pallet or 360 or vault a window, or whatever else is appropriate to juke the hit out of phase walk.
4) If you think the stand still trick is stupid, then it's probably because you fall for it often. It is actually very easy to play around, it's just majority of survivors over think the situation and do something incredibly stupid. There is 0 reason to remove this when it's the survivors fault for falling for it.
I'm not even going to address anything else. It's pretty obvious majority of the people in this thread just have absolutely no idea how to play against Spirit and rather than improving as a player they would rather just gut her so they can counter her 100% of the time. You can kick and scream all you want about how unfair it is you don't know when she is phasing or that the stand still trick is OP, but the fact remains you can outplay a Spirit consistently if you understand what her experience is and what your actual options for counter play are in a given situation. I guarantee you guys lose to Spirit because you over think the solution and just end up making really dumb decisions. This coming from someone that has seen Spirit counter play from both sides at rank 1.
Really, play Spirit to red ranks. You will see that majority of survivors just do really stupid things to beat you. And you will also see that the few survivors that DO know what to do are actually very difficult to track and catch as Spirit. If counter play doesn't exist at all then the second group would exist, but they do, just in way fewer numbers because counter playing the Spirit isn't a super intuitive thing and many survivors lack the awareness of killer's POV.
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Spine Chill has always been a top tier perk but few survivors know how to properly utilize it.
With the increase of Ghostfaces and Wraiths you are probably seeing Spine Chill more because it hard counters these killers.
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All Prove Thyself does is remove the 10% debuff survivors get for repairing a gen with other survivors.
Two survivors repairing a gen takes 44.4s. Two survivors repairing a gen with PT takes 40s. You save 4 seconds.
Three survivors repairing a gen takes 33.3s. Three survivors repairing a gen with PT takes 26.7s. You save 6.6 seconds.
The benefit is actually very minimal.
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Spirit and Plague.
Also according to Skemoo's human Nurse render, Nurse is kinda cute too.
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Probably because scaling.
Buffs are additive and have linear scaling.
Debuffs are multiplicative and have exponential scaling.
That means that you can stack buffs quite a lot before it becomes ridiculous, but you only need to stack debuffs a little bit for it to reach the same level of ridiculous.
For example if we have a 20% buff and 20% debuff active at once, the debuff will actually override the buff. The game measures things in charges per second and for this scenario the c/s would be 1.2 * 0.8 = 0.96. So you are doing whatever it is SLOWER than normal, even though both the buff and debuff are the same value. It's not as simple as they just cancel out each other.
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Jokes on you, even my mom can't tell me what to do.
Unless she says my full name then I become a very obedient son.
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I don't get why survivors have such a problem with slugging. You're not getting hooked, that's a good thing. I can understand if the killer slugs like 3 or 4 of you at a time, but if the killer leaves you on the ground to chase someone else that's 1 less hook for you in most cases. I slug people all the time just so they don't die because I'm nice like that.