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@C3Tooth said:
The ultimate reason not to tunnel/camping and try extremely hard to get a 4K.
Is playing against survivors who not try extremely hard for 4 escape.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WY3ESZSPDXEE/image.png
You can pull "you dont play in high MMR so you dont know". Thing is, I totally can put 4 slowdown, playing Spirit & hard tunnel these teams for easy kill to get to high MMR...wait, so thats why you're in high MMR?
Lmao that team let a trapper get a 3k, you were very serious about going into low mmr.
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First off I wanna preface the orestige does correlate to skill in many cases, but you can play and waste a lot of bp and still be awfull at the game.
With that said, I have watched the video, multiple times actually, and I really do not think they are as good as you think they are, first off they got downed by an m1 killer in a very well connected tile system, im talking about the first nea and the first down on the legacy dwight as main examples but not all, no half decent player gets downed by a simple m1 killer with good tiles.
Secondly they failed for incredibly easy to counter mindgames and didn't use deadhard in a way that forced you to activate it, ill give it to them, in counted times during the match they couldnt use deadhard that way, so thats fine, but when they could they didn't and that costed them downs that should not have happened.
And finally HOW on earth you get suprised by a killer that literally announces they are sneaking on you? Like the has a directional sound where she demanifests/manifests, and when she tps, on top if that she has a lullaby that tells you she is close, I cannot call someone good when they can get jumped by an onryo ( but maybe they were listening to music so in that case yeah its fine)
Now with everything said, that sadako build and playtyle is incredibly strong, why? Because even the 5% "best" players, somehow manage to die to sadako, meaning that there is such a low quantity of good players that I would bet you can probably play about 300 matches before you actually face a team that knows how to play the game, making a player that is good with meme killers like sadako a force to be reckoned with, because even tho they are easy to beat if you understand the game, the players who do are very few.
Hell I bet trapless trapper can still get a killrate over 50% because of how clueless people are.
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I think the scream is irrelevant, unless the killer has fearmonger ehy on earth would you let pain res trigger while you are on that gen, you literally get a warning to avoid it before it happens.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298655#Comment_3298655
Them grabbing the banner is usually your own fault, since they usually have to run back to where the banner was placed and its pretty easy to zone them away from that (especially Assassin)
Carnifex takes twice as long to place down his banner, so even if they do end up grabbing it thats still quite a bit of time they could of spent on gens that they instead ran away, ran back to the banner, and then finally run back to the gen
With the assasin I get it, letting get the flag is entirely on you, but as you explained, I use the carnifex to waste time, now you explained perfectly why carnifex is better to break stuff but lets go with me using it so chase too people at the same time, when they get chased they wont run to the same direction if they are middly decent at the game, then when you chase one the other takes the banner of the guard thats chasing them, or you try to pressure the banner and the other person gets away, so either the person with the carnifex only loses the time for the banner to spawn or you pressure the banner and the other survivors gets away.
Now with jailer a dimilar scenario may happen, but imo jailer is one of the best guards as he is escentially a glorified nemesis zombie in the fact that he gives you info, since he is slow af and unless you are corraling a survivor there is no way an even mediocre player get hit/doesn't get jailers banner without you chasing them too.
Im asking since you seem yo get more how to play him, and personally when I have versed knight a guard on his own seems more like a minir nuisance rather than a danger while not in chase with knight too.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297881#Comment_3297881
Because he has a really high skill ceiling. Only recently have I felt like I actually have a decent understanding with him and how the devs intended for him to be played, and that was no easy task. In fact its probably the longest amount of time it took me to understand how to play a killer.
The reason why I mentioned Hag in my previous reply is because surprisingly, thats the closest thing I can compare his guards to. A mobile phantasm trap. His movement speed being 4.6m/s (115%) is sort of misleading, making you think hes supposed to be a chase killer, (hes similar to Wesker as well in this regard, where hes better in the 1v4 than he is in the 1v1) but instead hes a micro manager, able to stall the game while picking away at Survivor resources. The more resources that are gone the more opportunities you create for yourself to start committing to chases.
Using or setting up a chase with your guards is different depending on which one is at your disposal.
Carnifex is who you want to use Order on the most, hes also pretty good at wasting time al though thats a bit more situational. Majority of the time you instantly order him to break a pallet or wall (NEVER use him to break a gen) to be able to continue pursuit to get a hit or down. You only want to plop him down when you see 2 Survivors together (most of the time thisll be on a gen or healing) you send him out first right on top of them, and then who ever he chases you ignore them and chase the other. This way youre pressuring 2 Survivors at once.
Assassin is the only one you usually want to have to aid you in chase. His faster movement speed helps zone Survivors. Best way to try to do it how ever, is to try to get him to get the hit and not you. This is because he applies Deep Wounds, which wastes Survivors time. Earlier in the game this wont be as easy to achieve, so most of the time youll find yourself ordering him to break a gen to boot Survivors off (they cant interact with anything being broken) and then chase them away.
Jailer is the one you want to draw long paths with, and not necessarily start a hunt. Patrolling between 2 gens or a point of interest (like a hex totem that survivors know the location of, or an exit gate) to discourage Survivors from interacting with them is usually the best way to go about things. You can also use him as a hag trap with an upgrade in perception by placing him in a way that might cause him to be alerted if a Survivor interacts with a pallet or window. (all guards will start hunting a Survivor if a loud noise notification is done inside their spotting range) This can be achieved easier with the Jailer thanks to his increased spotting range and faster hunt starting speed, which can be used to zone some one.
These arent easy to pull off and took me quite a bit to figure out, but it has brought me quite a bit of success. Hope this helps.
Doesn't this time wastinv/patroling strats only waste somewhat the amount of time it takes to spawn the flag, and then since you are chasing another person or doing something else they grab the banner and thats it? Like I get if it doesn't happen, like people manage to die to trapper and sadako, but against decent players why would they let you waste any more time than say the banner spawn time and two or three seconds to run to it.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297620#Comment_3297620
How come I end up with almost 4ks each game using random builds? You've set up your mind I believe.
Because people are awfull at the game, if sadako got such a high killrate with the suposed best 5% of the playerbase, it shows maybe that 5% isnt even good at the game, sadako is a free escape, maybe a 1k on shelter woods or if she camps, anything more than that means survivors were memeing/throwing.
Altho I must say the condemned playstyle is one of my favourite things to watch ever, somehow people manage to turn a meme killer into and actual killer by basically designing a new way to play the game, pretty smart tbh.
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@BillsHere101 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293346#Comment_3293346
Yes, but they keep on trying for what reason? They even added SBMM hidden from public eye and they are trying to set up professional tournaments. There are even top players that play competitively and survivors always claim the prize because killers are too weak in competitive matches.
Something is always going to be broken. When they nerf them, they are going to use the next items, perks or whatever to accomplish the needs to win in a competitive game.
The maps are by far the biggest issue in my opinion. I don't know why they can't design a good map probably because they lack knowledge or something.
This is untrue, many killer winning matches have been the reason some teams win in tournaments, I think you are just talking eithout any fundamentals or even watching any tournament.
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I play addonless and slowdonless slinger, yet a lot of people DC when they get downed first, do I literally have to give more of a free win that I already do to get people not to dc in the fisrt minute of the match?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289558#Comment_3289558
It's not. It's the same size as Ormond, which iirc is about the average/medium size for a map.
Nah, Im gonna preffer to be on copium with that one.
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@jesterkind said:
Is it actually that big? It didn't feel all that much larger than the average size for a map the few times I've played on it so far.
Ever since Eyrie of Crows I've learned to be a bit suspicious when people start saying a map is supposedly gigantic, lol.
Eyrie feels gigantic tho, like to me it feels like the biggest map, it may not be but it sure feels like.
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@DashMonsta008XV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/355555/whats-up-with-garden-of-joy
Isn't Garden of Joy the name of a place on Bioshock?
Only thing that comes to mind is the gatherer's garden, because the other related stuff would be arcadia.
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With the knight I get it, yes he does buff survivors, but how is dredge survivor friendly, being a bad killer isn't directly being frendly, like I am actually curious how is he survivor friendly.
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I personally think yes eruption should be nerfed, but its so funny before this update the killer slowdown was easy af to counter, ruin/undying had no right staying on more than 40 seconds against people who were semi-decent, and dms/painres literally gave out a warning to counter it, people literally had a meta that you could counter easily but complained so much that bhvr did the bhvr thing and replaced it with an abomination of a meta that is virtually uncounterable.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288293#Comment_3288293
Not a single demo hater.
I have gotten dcs as demo because I got early downs, people tend to like demo if the player can be easily beaten.
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Tbf you are right sadako manages to even get a high killrate at 5% top mmr, but it baffles me, its a stealth killer that tells you when she is near you, the flicker mindgame can be countered by hearing or the static effect, condemned can be ignored until you get like 6 stacks, and she has a 100 second cooldown on teleport, like I know most people die to her, but HOW? She literally has a list of instructions telling you how to beat her taped on her back.
And regarding your argument, yes antiloop is boring but with current map design, im sorry to sound mean but anyone who can't last at least a minute or more in chase against an m1 killer is just bad at the game, maybe if its shelter woods they get a pass.
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For me, she wasn't fun anymore, mind you most of my playtime as spirit was after the changes, she just fell off, getting a phase hit is not as satisfying as hitting a blight rush, or a slinger shot, I found my matches to lack adrenaline, so I dropped her.
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As a slinger main, yes he is awfull, however most players do not know how to play so you can still get some plays with him, for example, slinger right now has a lot of sound cues on top of a slow animation when he will fire, this means if you have eyes, there is no way in hell he can snipe you, yet I can get a lot of snipes in my matches, ¿Why is that?, Most players are simply not good, and thats why he or any weak killer can shine.
If you want a recomendation, try to play some matches not to win but to get accustomed to the gun, do not be afraid to try and snipe (as we discussed before good players wont ever get sniped, but they are as rare as a twins match), try to shoot through small gaps too.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3285861#Comment_3285861
There are exceptions of course. I also have some games where i play "nice" just for the killer to leave me to bleed in the floor 4 minutes while nodding. But on average, if you play in a way that is unfun for the other side you have more chances to be mocked/insulted.
I mean you are right, if I play nice I would have a sort of 70% od getting mocked/insulted, If I decide to tunnel or camp, it goes to 100%, in that regard you are correct, I just dont expect any empathy from survivors, been playing since there were only the 3 og killers, and never had any shred of empathy give, why tf would I expect that now, its dumb.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3285442#Comment_3285442
Your job is to kill the survivors, but you as player decide how to do that task.
If you are going to "do your job" in the most unfun, unhealthy way possible and you have no quarrel in griefing the other side in the process, then you are going to receive whining and insults.
It's just how things are.
Untrue, I do play "nice" even tho is cringe and I know it will make me lose, just because I think standing still or chasing only one person is boring, yet I still get insulted and mocked, it's a constant, as natural as gaining bloodpoints.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284627#Comment_3284627
Yep. Him and slinger both have huge cosmetic opportunities
When you make an undead looking outlaw how are the 2 cosmetics that come to your mind “red Chinese onesie” and “moths”
How on earth do you manage to idnore thr fisherman cosmetic, its amazing, and yeah slinger needs more cosmetics but the fisherman is the GOAT.
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Good, play actually good killers, blight is just a better hillbilly all around and he has better skins.
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@Marc_123 said:
I guess his kill rates will be way higher than people think.
Players here in the forum are just too good (or pretend to be).
He is a killer with extra stuff to care about - the normal player struggles with extra stuff.
I played some rounds and a lot just ran into me while escaping the guards.
I agree with this, the average player has no idea whats going on, if people at top mmr manage to let sadako get more than 3 hooks Im willing to bet even a killer with no power can keep a somewhat around 50% killrate, since they will almost never run into someone who knows how to play.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
Time to bring out deathslinger again
As a slinger main I know he is not strong but holy hell its feels amazing that he is inmune to so much BS, deadhard and snowmen literally cannot bother slinger.
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@Hensen2100 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279837#Comment_3279837
I just don't see how people can see a killer who can do stuff like this, and then they turn around and call him weak and unviable.
Or, laughably, calling him the worst killer or one of the worst killers in the game.
The worst killer in the game can effortlessly down people at some of the safest loops in DBD without even kicking the pallet? OK. Whatever you say.
Ok I watched the full video, he does bring up some interesting points rewarding time optimization with the knight, but holy hell man was playing against people who could have gotten beaten by trapless trapper, like that down at shack in the first map had no right to exist, any decent survivors will at worst get the hit from the guard and use the speedboost to make distance, other plays were questionable at best.
And you know what, even tho he id playing against players that are clearly not good, he is still right, if somehow even the 5% best players manage to die to a meme killer like sadako, no killer is unviable, legit I could play trapless trapper and people will somehow llet me 4k.
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You played trapper, you were asking for this to happen, you do not ever expect mercy from survivors, its dumb.
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I have tried stealth builds, hell my main build is composed of m&a and plaything, and I think on slinger its good tbh, and snipes, as someone who has invested unhealthy amount of time into slinger after the nerf, no one should ever get sniped, there are so much cues, you have to be distracted or genuinly bad to get sniped, with that said somehow 80% or more of the survivors I have played against manage to get sniped so it is still a build that you can use, just keep in mind if you verse people who are not bad at the game you will probably not get value from it.
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My favourite map by looks so far, shame its so badly designed.
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@Bupkiss said:
He is almost a guaranteed 4k so why not use him? If you can't master Nurse, Wesker is a great alternative if you want a killer who steals the fun out of the game for survivors.
Yikes, wesker has a lot of counterplay during chase, if you think he is somehow similar to nurse in chase you have to be trolling.
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@Murgleïs said:
OW2 = Competitive game. Winning is all that matters.
DBD = Casual game heavily dependent on RNG. Escaping or killing doesn’t really matter that much, it’s more about having fun with each unique map / killer power. You can play DBD how you want, you can DC the penalty is short tbh, you can throw as survivor playing a trash build nobody is going to report you. Same goes for killer, you can play huntress / deathslingers trying to get fancy shots and chilling. Also DBD has a big roleplay side with the skins, I mean why some people play Jeff who is huge when they can pick Feng who is small and can hide easier ? Probably because Jeff is cooler for them.
Dbd might have been born as a casual game, but the mentallity of a very big part of the community is definetly competetive, your example with feng and jeff, comparing the number of people that play feng and jeff shows that under what you propose people are choosing the more competitive option, altho I do not believe personally people play feng for this reason.
Secondly when you see content for the game, the biggest content creators are people who are good at the game, and to some extend a great majority of them talk and make content related to the balance of the game, hell look at most youtube channels and tell me the tier list videos do not have more views than a video about a "fun" build, even more, if you search for builds for a certain killer most results are "best x build","disgusting x build", and very few of them are "most fun x build", dbd may not be a competitive Esports game but it has an incredibly competitive audience.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3275256#Comment_3275256
Damn, the mental gymnastics then. If people are having success with those killers how are the bad? Like on what level can you make that argument? Top 1%? Tournament play? Everyone being perkless and no add-ons? I'm trying to understand here under what circumstances those killers are bad in a practical and not theoretical way.
They have a very high amount of counters and their skill expression is incredibly limited, you can be as skilled as you want with dredge but if people use one locker lock at a time and play loops safe, there is no reality in which that dredge gets more than a 1k, I play a lot of dredge/slinger, and each time I get a 4k I know the survivors had all the tools to destroy me comoletely but they somehow threw it out the window.
The fact that the majority of olayers somehow still manage to go down in safe loops against m1 killers show how little they know if the game, for example I have eon dredge games ON THE GAME, literally this should no the a possibility if my opponents had any idea how to play.
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@Hensen2100 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3274795#Comment_3274795
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ERQ0SQXY1LLM/asdd.png
??? This killer is a 4k machine
Look at that detection radius, it's insane. Into a 16 second chase
Anytime a survivor goes to an isolated tile it's been a free hit or they are forced to leave. Even shack hasn't been safe
Don't understand how people think this killer is bad, he can also instadown if you wait for the guard to hit someone before you do too
People get hit by guards in places that are not corners? LMAO they are literally easier to loop than sadako.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3275044#Comment_3275044
Yeah but he can easily fall in the overwhelming side of killers. And as far as I can tell and correct me if I'm wrong, mechanically he is not challenging, so making overtuned is rather risky. I do believe his bugs will be ironed out no doubt although it'll take a while, but exactly because he is so different than the rest I think he is more difficult to balance right.
I personally will wait a little, I understand killers are not happy with him. I don't exactly understand how they wanted him to play out if I'm being honest and killers were also saying Dredge and Sadako were bad and the stats came out and people were making all sorts of guesses as to why is that because it didn't fit their narrative. Of course I cannot deny I could be way off with this Killer but I'll wait and see personally.
Dredge and sadako are bad, the thing is the majority of players are so bad they will even die to them, hell even trapper got a sort of decent killrate, showing that some people will literally die to killers that should be a guaranteed 4 man escape.
Now what does the stats show us? That even the 5% best players are really bad at the game, ehich in turn means balancing for good players is not really a wise option for the devs.
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Nah, as a killer main, new DH is leagues more balanced than abomination we had before, if the survivor has good timing they get rewarded, if the killer is patient they get the down, no more uncounterable crap (there are some cases but they are very scarse).
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@Regulus47 said:
A good fix would be making it so when the killer hooks someone they teleport to a hook far away so it's harder to camp. Like pyramid head's cages.
Doesn't that erase all pressure from having someone hooked in the first place?, the killer has to carry the person, hook them and then if survivors are smart they will get instasaved and the killer literally did absolutelly nothing, at that point a slug is way more effective.
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About the bug you are right, that needs to be fixed ASAP, about the power...LMAO, his guarda are easier to loop than sadako, and thats in of itself an achievement.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3271799#Comment_3271799
I -main- slinger, I'm saying this from the perspective of someone who is tired of people DCing if you go 'yeah, you know what, you're running straight for that loop, I'm going after your friend over there', and these people STILL sticking around to complain how 'looping is a must in the game, because points'... like... sweetheart, no.
I do agree that some people will DC when you do not play into how they want the game to gi, but that doesn't mean slinger is unloopable, you can keep him busy for a long time.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3271541#Comment_3271541
It'd be great if the game would finally reward approaching different killers differently.
Deathslinger's the best example. By design he's not meant to be engaged in a chase. But the game does not reward staying out of his sight. Instead the points are just the same kind as you'd get for looping a killer like e.g. trapper or huntress.
Since his changes I can asure you looping him is not hard at all.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3265775#Comment_3265775
They are? Wow, news for me tbh
Twins are an incredibly powerful killer when played right, victor is unloopable practically.
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@Marc_123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3264659#Comment_3264659
Don´t play Solo Q?
Or you are just too good :-)
For normal players Sadako is strong.
Sadako is easy af to destroy, but you are right, the average dbd player somehow dies to her, both of you are correct, sadako is weak af, but since even the top 5% players are still really bad at the game she will still get a good killrate.
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What Im getting from this thread is that people do not know how to use the remnant in a good way, if you place the remnant and then just circle the loop, you are doing the most boring and predictable play, there is so much you can do, like fake the remnant, or doing a short burstbor change the looping direction, outside of looping you can hide the remnant and use it as a trap.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263386#Comment_3263386
You also dont need to compare the absolute weakest with the absolute strongest in terms of killers. We all know that trapper's kit is outdated and relies more on gimmicks and basement builds in his current state.
But there are B-tier and maybe some C-tier killer that can get you rewarding games but people only use nurse and blight because their power/addons are so strong that they can crush everything they see.
You can get reqarding games given that the survivors are bad or are playing a killer favoured map, yes.
Even more as the stats showed most survivors are bad at the game even at top mmr, but that doesn't make those killers good, its just oponents being unable to use the amole counters those killers have.
I am a slinger/dredge main and each time I get a 4k I can think of how easy it would have been for those survivors to just dunk on me if they actually knew how to play.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3263345#Comment_3263345
they are
its just people dont like putting in the effort to learn a new killer who wont yield the same results right away and is punished more for their mistakes
You can put all the effort you want into learning trapper(or another meme killer), but the second you face a decent team there is no way they let you get away with more than a 1k, now as most people who play the game a clueless they will probably be killed by a trapper, but if you are facing people that actually know how to play the game, you could be the best trapper oit there and still get dunked on.
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Ok im gonna stop you on something, you are saying that nurse/blight/spirit are the only viable killers, which in turn is true if you are playing against good players, but as the last stats they released show, even the 5% top mmr are really bad at the game, and on that note it showed a relatively high to medium killrate.
Which means now that killers are somewhat stronger than before, even tho survivors are given all the tools to destroy most killers, they do not know how to use them. so buffing killers in general even more will create a situation where the average survivor player has very few chances to escape.
This is coming from a diehard killer main man, the game does not need more general killer buffs until it is showed that a good portion of survivors are decent at the game, it would ruin their experience.
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I mean, people would just play the survivor with the most usefull passive/better obligatory perk, and now you got only 3 survivors bring played, I do like that you propose the discussion of the "should it exist" in the first place as this suggestion has been done before without thinking this specific question.
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Aren't his only good addons like barbs glasses and that other brown one?
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@Regulus47 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3258292#Comment_3258292
Hell no! Blight needs a nerf urgently he's not the "most balanced". That'd probably go to demopupper or billy in trained hands.
Demo and billy are incredibly easy to dunk on if you are a good survivor, like even comp billies get clapped when they face a good looper.
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Tbh i applaud anyone with the timing to dead hard victor. His pounce is lightning fast
His eyes warn you when he will pounce, you can force lose-lise situations very easily if you are getting chased by viktor, its not that hard, but seeing as even the "good" players manage to die to sadako, yeah few people will know you can very easily dunk on viktor.
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Lmao, like literally just lmao.
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I get the complains that legion is boring, and doctor is annoying, but thinking those two jokes are busted is seriously a symptom of what is known as a skill issue.
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@cburton311 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/353622/its-a-shame-they-abandoned-sadako
I wouldn't hold your breath, Oryno currently has one of the kill rates at all MMR and high MMR.
This shows how awfull even the high mmr players are at the game.