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Knowing how to run different tiles correctly, and also the best alternative methods if the killer runs it in a way that prevents the survivor from doing so is one specific example. This is a skill both sides have to practice and it can make a huge difference, look at a killer that runs a TL tile correctly vs one that runs it incorrectly. In one example it leads to mindgames where both the killer and survivor can fake their direction, in the other it leads to easy free vaults for the survivor.
Yeah, there's not much mechanical skill involved besides consistently hitting great skillchecks and good movement, but there's a lot of knowledge involved that seperates a good survivor from a great survivor.
And don't get me wrong I think "god windows" and boring braindead loops with no LOS blockers (like the ones in the middle of Blood Lodge) are incredibly boring and uninteresting to play, but on actually interesting tiles there's a lot more going on than the two players holding W.
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What? Unless I missed something the hatch still appears as usual - when the survivors have done 1 more generator than the amount of survivors alive. 3 survivors alive = 4 gens, 2 survivors alive = 3 gens and so on.
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@Exxodus21 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/983617#Comment_983617
The Ruin nerf isn't even live yet so I doubt that's the reason. Keys seem to be used in more matches than mori's from my experience, though I do6have any data to back that up.
Doesn't stop people from thinking they're making a "statement" by playing as "toxic" as possible already, and proudly proclaiming it on the forums. At least one poster I saw even "subtly" implied they would intentionally derank to specifically target new players with it too.
Almost like they missed that the only way they can make any relevant statement whatsoever is by not playing or spending any more money on the game.
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@Chewy102 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/983477#Comment_983477
Matchmaking being out of wack could very well be caused by SWF.
DbD was built to support 4 solo Survivors. Finding 4 random people within a rank and matching them to play with a random Killer. But SWF confuses that supposed simple system by needing to mix/match group sizes. The more complex you make the matchmaking, the more it tends to break and/or slow down.
SWF is also taking players out of their intended ranks. Currently it is taking low rank players and putting them into high rank lobbies. That leaves less low rank players in total slowing that matchmaking while clogging high rank matchmaking slowing it as well.
It is no longer giving an advantage, but SWF is having negative effects on matchmaking as a whole. This isn't the first time either that matchmaking broke due to it being unable to handle the added complexity and SWF shifting players between the ranks out of the natural flow.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/983559#Comment_983559
Read the above to see how SWF has an effect on matchmaking.
Also, you don't need support/information perks as solo. If you know your fellow Survivors, IF you can trust them. It is a constant complaint that teammates are worthless. They don't work gens, they can't loop, I can't trust them for anything!
Sound familiar? That is how DbD is was built to be. Survivors not knowing if they can trust each other, not knowing anything for certain without seeing it for themselves. This makes your perk build a choice. Favor information? Want to help others? Be out for yourself? There is suppose to be a give and take. Instead, we have meta builds thanks to SWF making too much information freely available and adding too much co-operation for DbD's balance to handle.
But as you said. The backlash of removing SWF would likely kill the game. That's why you don't remove SWF. Just make it unranked and return ranked to what it was built to be. If it is impossible to balance solo and SWF, then you don't attempt to balance them at all. If all you care about is playing with friends then playing in an unranked mode shouldn't have any effect on your group at all.
Make it so you can earn BP and have an option to make that lobby a custom game if wanted where you have full access to map selection and perks for free at the cost losing BP gains.
At the moment weird stuff happens even with no SWF involved, at least in my experience. I've had lobbies where it's confirmable everyone is solo (public profiles + no one showing up on eachother's friends lists on PC) that still get bizarre rank spreads like 2-2-13-14 vs 12, which completely breaks the +/- 6 rank guideline matchmaking is supposed to follow no matter what.
I agree that the way any party with even one red rank survivor pulls everyone away from their lower ranks is a thing though, it is a big part of the reason why killers have long queues at low ranks and short queues at high ranks. I play EU and at most with one other survivor in SWF that's very similar rank as me, so obviously I can't know first-hand how bad it is in lower populated regions as personally I never have an issue finding a match as killer or survivor.
I genuinely believe the players lost if SWF was removed or severely restricted would make it worse than it is or I can imagine it getting though. Not only would it be the removal or restriction of a feature that's expected from a modern multiplayer game with any sort of team play, it would be the removal or restriction of the way a lot of people got introduced to the game in the first place.
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As both sides I mindgame myself because I always expect my opponent(s) to try to mindgame me. I'm never perpared for the forbidden "hold W and never look where I'm going" strat 😄
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@Chewy102 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/983245#Comment_983245
That's double standards though. It is no different than saying SWF is better than anyone else. They dont need to follow the rules, but you do. You can't get free perks, you can't choose your rank or matchmaking, you can't just give yourself an advantage at will. But SWF can.
What makes SWF so special? What makes SWF better than anyone else? SWF isn't following the rules, they are ABOVE the rules!
Call it what you want. But SWF is held above everyone else for no reason other than they are SWF. It isn't fair, it isn't right, and there isn't any defending it. You said it yourself.
SWF is allowed to work outside the rules for no reason other than it is SWF.
They are following the rules because they're not breaking any rules. As silly as that sentence might sound, it's the complete truth. There's a rule against getting advantages from third-party sources, but VOIP applications as well as post-processing software like Nvidia Freestyle and Reshade (which arguably helps killers more than survivors if they want it to!) are explicit exceptions to that rule, either by developer statements or by being present on EAC's whitelist.
You can think it's unfair, I think it's an advantage that's impossible to emulate as well. That's an opinion shared by many people, and why a lot of people discuss ways to lessen the advantage ranging from somewhat realistic ideas on how to balance the game around it to what is arguably pipe dreams about applying all sorts of restrictions and handicaps to it.
But cheating is a completely binary yes/no matter. If the developers or EAC's whitelist say something isn't cheating, it quite simply isn't because players won't get punished for doing it even if all the proof is present. If you take the third-party advantage rule 100% literally then recording the game or streaming it would be cheating too, as you get the advantages of being able to review your gameplay to figure out where you made mistakes more effectively than others, and if you're streaming someone in chat might decide point out a totem you missed or keep track of how many times you've hooked different survivors even if you lost track.
And also SWF can't "choose their matchmaking". Matchmaking is broken in general at the moment but SWF parties are matched based on the highest rank, which isn't exactly an advantage for the SWF party. It certainly used to be a thing when any rank 1 survivor could family share the game to a new rank 20 account, make them invite 3 rank 1 survivors and as a result not get matched in red ranks where the party obviously belongs, but that's not a thing anymore. Any possible remaining matchmaking "advantages" they could have are much weaker than a killer's ability to dodge a lobby they don't want to play (which I personally don't have an issue with, for the record).
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@sorrowen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982513#Comment_982513
But ranking is busted it would make logical sense if ranking wasn’t complete trash and matching wasn’t busted.
@Zagrid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/982513#Comment_982513
Even though after falling through the ranks the game will still pair you with rank 1s even if you are a rank 13 killer
I should've been more clear, as this is why I italicized the word "supposed". I totally agree that for the purpose I stated the ranking and matchmaking in DBD isn't exactly functional, but I'm fairly certain that's what was meant by the post in the OP.
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All that post says is that if someone consistently depips in any given rank, they'll do so until they end up in a rank where they black pip/pip enough to stay there. That's sort of the entire point of a ranking system, it's not supposed to just be a climb to the top ranks and then staying there.
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@Chewy102 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/981789#Comment_981789
Stopped reading at pipping at 1 kill. A low rank can pip with 1 kill, but the emblem system is often more ruthless than a woman on Black Friday. Iv had far too many 3 kill or 25K BP black pip games to count, but don't recall ever earning a pip off a 1 kill game outside of yellow ranks.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/981831#Comment_981831
You asked me for proof. I gave examples. Now Im asking for you to do the same. That's now these things work, you gotta back up your claims with examples. Not just a "he said/she said" one line reply.
Please explain how SWF isn't cheating when if gives information Survivors aren't suppose to have without paying a cost and/or when it actively bypasses ranking and matchmaking systems.
It's not cheating because the developers say so. It really is that simple, in any game it's the people running the game that decide what's allowed and what isn't, and both playing SWF in general and using VOIP applications of any kind is explicitly allowed in DBD. It's quite simply completely irrelevant if you feel it's "legal cheating", "kinda cheating", or anything else, just like it'd be completely irrelevant if I thought it should be allowed if it was considered cheating.
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@Chewy102 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/981431#Comment_981431
Hex is on Killer shack side. Hex is near main building. Killer is stealthing towards X/Y landmark.
You don't need to be exact to have a good idea where something is and only an idiot would say something like "by a tree". You use landmarks to give directions. Main buildings, shack, harvester, cow tree, freezer, bathroom, ect. Once you have a landmark, any player that has played more than a few hours should be able to find any totem. They often aren't hidden well enough to start with to need directions anyway.
Even saying "OH #########" is more information than Survivors are suppose to have as it tells everyone that the Killer is in chase and that it is 100% safe to do anything you want even against stealth Killers without any fear till that guy gets downed or says the Killer broke chase.
You still haven't made a counter argument. But you read like someone who doesn't bother to try nor cares to get better at a game and simply plays a game to just play it. Not exactly someone who would know much about details anyway.
The thing is it's a complete waste of resources to try to do anything about SWF in a way that restricts it, pretty much anything they do could be circumvented easily. Restrict VOIP apps? People can just used alternative methods like using Discord on PC while playing on console, Discord on their phones, straight up calling eachother on their phones or even bizarre solutions like using party chat on console while playing on PC.
And mechanical restrictions like less perks or gen speed penalties? People just dodged lobbies until they got eachother as "solos" before SWF was added. It's not even that hard if players are close geographically and rank-wise but would still mess with queue times for everyone be they killers, solos or other SWF parties.
This is why approaches like changing base survivors ("solos") and killers, SWF indicators, bonus BP and to some extent seperate queues are discussed more often. They actually have a non-zero probability of ever happening and couldn't be easily circumvented, and there'd be less reason to circumvent them in the first place.
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I mean, I disagree with the Ruin changes but no way I'm gonna bother actually discussing it at the moment.
It's pretty funny to see total megaminds ""subtly"" encouraging review bombing get banned though.
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Not really related to what role people are playing, but sore winners and losers alike.
As long as it's not breaking any rules it's pointless to get mad at people for using things in the game to their advantage, be it BT bodyblocks, aggressive DS use, moris or whatever else. Blaming the player when it's an annoyance that should be blamed at the game is scrub behavior.
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That's unfortunate for them, just like survivors that for whatever reason expect to escape before they've actually left the match. This is more of a multiplayer action game with a horror theme than an actual horror game.
One thing's for sure though, if they really want to go for the 50% goal of theirs killer emblems in high ranks need to change to actually work with that goal, even if emblem-cucking elements like instadowns or ... Plague in general are involved.
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I haven't seen any of that, but if there's stuff to unlock in it that I want? Sure.
While I disagree with the Ruin change despite rarely using the perk myself, nothing I've seen will make me enjoy the game any less than I already do.
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I rarely use it.
I'm not accusing anyone of it but I noticed that for myself it made me rely on it and think a game was automatically over if Ruin was cleansed early, so I simply stopped using it for the most part.
Works for me. Win some and lose some, but I must be doing something right as I still hang around in red ranks.
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I'm a player with a fairly casual mindset towards the game so I don't see any reason to stop playing. Don't use Ruin a lot and still end up hanging around in red ranks.
Do I win or lose consistently? No, I win some and lose some. But clearly I win enough and I have fun with it.
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If you think that would actually accomplish anything worthwhile whatsoever, I don't know what gave you that idea.
If you're specifically doing it in an attempt to make random players that probably never wanted a Ruin change in the first place miserable you're kinda silly, or even worse you've gone head first into the cringy my side good your side bad tribalism bullshit.
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They're actually interactive structures as opposed to scrap pile loops with no LOS blockers where both players just run around it until something happens, so they're perfectly fine with me.
They're not an issue at all on their own. If they spawn in a way that easily link them to another compatible and strong structure (like a long wall gym with the window facing the shack window) then that's incredibly strong, but that's not the jungle gym's fault.
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Any implementation of this I can think of would be pointless at best and encourage more dodging at worst.
You already have people that are surprised when they figure out that camping, tbagging or whatever else isn't a reportable and bannable offense. You'd probably also get the people genuinely "playing for salt" trying to get a bad rep just like they desperately bait people to leave messages on their Steam profiles 😄
If it was only positive it'd be better, but at that point it's again kinda pointless.
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But it's not cheating.
Sure people can read the rules without thinking any further about them and think it's a violation of the third party program rule, but that's irellevant when it has been explicitly whitelisted.
It's an exception to the rule like stuff like Reshade/sweetFX, Nvidia Freestyle and others that are explicitly whitelisted programs despite offering players advantages. The same goes for the use of voice communications in general, they've been clearly stated to be okay, legal and fully endorsed. I mean there's even voice rooms for SWF teams on their official Discord, isn't there?
There's no such thing as "technically cheating". It's either cheating that can get a player punished, or not. And it very clearly isn't.
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@The_Second_Coming said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/967361#Comment_967361
But let's talk about all those killers that are bad for believing the same thing I do? Let's talk about that, which you, once again, ignored. :D
I just have to say that you shouldn't be talking about logical platforms and invalid arguements when you've constantly thrown out assumptions and discarded them whenever they turned out to be untrue, until you're down to "you need your crutch" and clinging to your appeal to authority.
Please stop being so concerned with proving people's opinions "invalid" or finding a reason to make it justified to disregard their opinion. You're not talking to flat earthers, you're talking to people that disagree with you about a perk in DBD.
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Because Trapper could be greatly improved by simple changes like letting him start with more traps, carry more traps as base, make it take longer to disarm traps and that sort of thing. His traps work but it can be cumbersome and time consuming to set them up, he really doesn't need anything resembling a full rework.
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Clearly they don't know you can just say the magic words "camper tunneler -_-" or "swf -_-" to instantly invalidate their loss! They'll learn with time 😉
It is nice when people actually compliment you though. I complimented a Huntress on being really accurate with even longer range hatchets the other day and even though 3 escaped they seemed really happy about it, it doesn't take much to be a little bit positive!
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I just switch perks up a lot in general because it's more fun that way as both sides to me, but I use meta perks if I feel like it too.
Some perks are hard for me to unequip though like Iron Will, Borrowed Time, Unbreakable, BBQ and Whispers. Always end up missing them whenever I take them off it seems, like how the game after I take off Unbreakable the perfect opportunity to use the perk shows up 😄
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As said earlier you can hit players behind hooked survivors in the way someone mentioned in this thread.
And exploit ruin? Do you mean gen tapping? The devs have explicitly said that's legal and not something that's reportable so I don't see how that's "toxic" whatsoever. Unless they miss every skillcheck and get a lot of them they'd be better off just doing the gen normally.
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I'm pretty sure it's a minority that believe a perk to help against tunneling doesn't belong in the game in any way shape or form, most people just want it to deactivate if it seems like the killer actually isn't tunneling.
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It's part of a 3-4 game rotation and has been that for over a year at this point. I alternate between mainly playing one over the others, but always play them all a decent bit anyway when I have the time.
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Don't really have much of an opinion on it one way or another, don't really see it too often in red ranks personally.
As killer I'd rather use perks that are either relevant throughout more of the match or at the very least active from the start in some way.
As survivor I don't really care if I die to it. I understand how people might feel "robbed" even though I disagree with that mindset, but I'll happily die to NOED when I "should have escaped" over getting mori-tunneled or something earlier on. If you die to NOED you lived until the end of the game, so you should've had plenty of time to get to get BP, emblems and general gameplay by then.
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I like it. Totally agree that in situations where it's clear the killer is genuinely tunneling it's totally fair for the perk to be stronger than it is at the moment, while events that makes it very likely the killer isn't actively chasing the player in question (getting healed to full for example) it's weaker or gets deactivated. Perks and the syringe medkit addon that lets survivors heal even while being chased (like Second Wind and Adrenaline) are a bit tricky and I don't really know how to handle them.
When it comes to slugging it sort of balances itself a lot of the time. Most of the time the killer will down them and then chase someone else which often lets them get up (from other survivors or Unbreakable), if the killer is genuinely just standing around the slug for 60 seconds and the other survivors catch on that's a lot of completely free and safe objective time for them.
Nice to see an idea with some thought put into it, as opposed to the ones where people seem to be heavily opposed to the idea of a perk to make it harder to tunnel someone in the first place 🙂
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Would be a nice touch. Either that or maybe make the generator sound like it has less progress than it really has while the survivor is working at it or something.
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Now I wonder what their "club" really is. Is it just their Discord server or stream viewers? Personally I like to imagine they're gonna ask everyone in the movie club at their college to report your or something 😄
Good thing actual proof of rules broken is required though, and how nice of them to provide proof of them threatening to "report brigade" you without you even having to ask!
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Unhooks are probably the most time-effective way to earn points, more points than doing an entire gen solo in just a second (assuming it's a safe unhook). At least We're Gonna Live Forever requires a safe unhook nowadays, back when it didn't you saw some truly selfish stuff 😄
The real pain is when you're using Kindred and you're on the hook, and you still see all 3 survivors race eachother to the hook. I'm using this perk specifically so two of you can stay on gens unless the person closest to me gets found, cut it out 😥
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She's fun and rewarding to play, and strong too on many maps.
It has always seemed like it sorta goes in "waves" with her though. There's a while where there's a lot of Huntresses, then a while where you rarely see it. I like playing her and playing against her no matter if I win or lose though so I'm not complaining 😃
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"Bullying" requires intent and it's not bullying when matchmaking messes up. Just like you get games where the killer is lower rank, you get games where 2 survivors are lower rank even without SWF - it sucks but it happens and hopefully it gets fixed.
But it's not bullying regardless without intent and the same goes for anything from looping (including hugging god windows), tunneling or whatever else.
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Probably 70% of my time as survivor is played with a single friend of mine in a 2man, and the rest is solo. Been months since I did 3man/4man at this point. I greatly prefer playing with one friend over playing solo because even having a single player I know I can rely on is nice.
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Similar reason to why killers dodge lobbies they don't want, and exactly the same reason that some killers alt+f4/force close the app if they see undesirable offerings like Haddonfield or maps that screw their killer of choice over hard.
It's no deeper than that. People see something they don't want to deal with and avoid it.
Besides, depending on how DC penalties get implemented doing this in any way might be punished in the future. If force closing the game in any way counts as a DC in the offering/loading screen moris, map offerings as well as any last second switches the survivors do can't be dodged without punishment in the first place.
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If it's "just" insults they'd probably have to be racist, sexist or anything like that. Simply telling people they're ######### at the game isn't really comparable even though it's incredibly pointless and unpleasant of people to do.
It's anecdotal of course but I've seen 2 people I've reported get a "1 game ban on record" on their Steam profiles before, complete with the usual "banned from dbd for no reason :((" type text on there too. Obviously permaban-worthy offenses like death threats in both cases, and they probably did it to other players and got reported by others as well as they were obvious desperate trolls both in gameplay and post-match behavior. So it does happen, at least in the really clear cut black-and-white cases.
And also, if it ever seems like Streamers have an easier time getting offenders banned, that's not really preferential treatment. If the offenses happen live, there's proof being broadcast live AND in the VODs afterwards. No need for software like Shadowplay to capture it after the fact, they're caught live on camera.
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It's not that bad in my opinion.
I totally agree that a training area would be nice though. Just some generators, immobile survivor bots and hooks would by itself be nice to just get used to controls and practice stuff like nurse blinks and hatchet throws. Perhaps a killer bot constantly swinging to get yourself injured as survivor if you want to test healing speeds, bonuses and so on.
Doesn't have to be anything super complex or configurable, would be nice anyway.
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There's not a single "objective" definition of what counts as toxic, so whatever people personally consider toxic (if anything).
Like for me no in-match actions that don't straight up break the rules are toxic. The term is exclusively reserved for stuff like genuine harassment or threats post-game. To some it might just be tbagging, and to some pallet blinding, bodyblocking and "excessive" looping might count as toxic no matter what.
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When it comes down to it, you can camp whenever you want.
When it comes to camping during end game in particular it's more commonly "understandable" to a lot of people than any other time though. Even if you just want more points and not too worried about sacrifices it makes sense to at the very least "proxy camp" so you can try to take hook trades to prolong the game at that point.
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I don't really initiate it myself, but I'm fine with playing along if someone else does. Especially if there's multiple BPS in play.
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Probably gonna finish my survivors by getting Steve and Yui to P3-50, then I'm not too sure if I want to go for all perks on Ghostface, Wraith or Doctor next 🤔
Don't really prestige killers, getting all perks is my personal P3 for them pretty much.
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@ThisGuuy83 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/959363#Comment_959363
I'll just bring trapper... Bye bye god windows...
Good on ya, Trapper can do some work on Haddonfield, especially if he gets the impossible to disarm traps on the balconies set up. Same with the grassy "hallways" between the houses and fences, so many nice routes to trap 😈
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@kcwolf1975 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/959595#Comment_959595
Tunneled because of bond?
Bond helps you make decisions that makes it seem like you're... you know, sentient at all.
And everyone knows that automatically means 4man SWF! /s
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My Steam name changes quite often.
My name here... well, it was pretty much picked just because I thought it'd fit the Stridor icon and I couldn't come up with anything else 😄
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/959363#Comment_959363
They do im pretty sure the devs said they accounted for pretty much everything (which for some reason included if the server itself shut down or dbd itself crashed).
I guess we'll see if they change anything about it. I personally do believe that alt+F4ing on purpose being punished is fine, I just hope they find some way to limit the amount of people that get punished for things entirely out of their control.
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Sure, go ahead.
I wonder if DC penalties will apply to alt+F4 in the offering/loading screen actually. If it does you better get ready to see 4x toolbox + haddonfield offering last second switches, and better be ready to play the match or get punished for it 🙂
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It's fine to be competitive as long as it doesn't involve genuine entitlement, hypocrisy or unrealistic personal goals.
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She can struggle with certain maps or specific tiles, but in that example you mentioned that's 100% a player problem and not a Huntress problem. Huntresses that refuse to just force a pallet with M1 when it's the right choice to do so are very easy to run for ages, and all they need to do is mix it up and sometimes just lunge through the pallet.