miketheratguy
miketheratguy
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Whatever the Wraith now has, and whatever the Spirit has always had.
The Wraith in particular. ######### that guy. He used to be really solid, borderline OP. Now he's merely invisible (from a farther distance), silent (thus removing pretty much his only weakness), AND way too fast. Yaaaaaay!
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These are really interesting! I WISH I haven't seen as many Hags as I have. I think I MAY not have seen her on any of the Elm Street maps but I'm not totally sure. Similarly I feel like I have a vague memory of seeing PH on Hawkin's but I can't be 100 percent certain. Definitely saw the Nurse in Midwich, that was actually one of my earlier, more memorable matches. Killed me JUST at the gate after a good, competitive game. Ghostface on Dead Dawg sucked, as he's an annoying killer, the map has plenty of places for a ducking killer to blend in, and it's the one map I don't like.
Seeing The Plague at Hawkins lab WAS really strange. I barely ever see her - that was probably only the fifth or sixth time - and it was about the last place I expected to see her in. Got lots of Leatherfaces, especially recently, and they're pretty much always on the farm-type maps (appropriately enough).
Some of you who have only seen certain killers on rare occasions surprise me. Only one Demo? A few Pyramid Heads? I've seen both at least a couple dozen times in various different maps. I've seen Trickster absolutely everywhere - on every map, multitudes of times. I hate it. That's what I get for having the unfortunate timing of getting this game RIGHT when he launched. There were days when he comprised probably 80 percent of my opponents. I'm way, WAY over him. The good news is that everyone picks The Wraith instead now. The bad news is that everyone picks The Wraith instead now.
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@FrenziedRoach said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2139455#Comment_2139455
Yah, I'm not getting it either tbh. I think too many people stress those first two lost gens too much when frankly they just need to look at it as territory they no longer defend. But that's my viewpoint on it.
It's weird, when I DO play as a killer I can see that the gennys do sometimes seem to go REALLY fast. Yet in countless survivor games we can go five minutes (and sometimes the entire game, which also lasts five minutes lol) if we're against a really skilled killer.
I think that the gen speed is largely fine, the strange number (little more than a minute, not quite a minute and a half) seems to me to be the result of fine-tuning and not just something arbitrary. I wouldn't want it extended nor shortened. I don't think that either the survivors or the killers need to have extra tasks thrown at them. At this early stage in the game for me (about 250 hours total, some of which are on the Lite and thus not counted, unfortunately) things seem to depend more on skill and strategy than anything, as it should be. I've had all four survivors escape the nurse and all four survivors get killed by The Plague. I may be in the minority but I feel that tweaking should remain with the characters and / or perks, not the gameplay structure.
Though I can also see how random placement can really alter things, such as multiple gens popping at once or killers hooking survivors within the first 30 seconds.
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@FrenziedRoach said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2139440#Comment_2139440
it wasn't aimed at anybody in general. But it's where i go to destress and blow off steam if I'm not feeling up to pushing myself.
Was just a general suggestion for somebody looking to blow off steam stress free if they felt the need.
Oh okay, just wondering because I did mention to someone a few days ago that I played F13 first. Good game in its own right, great fealty to the source material. It's a true act of love. Not as good a game though, at least in my opinion. Multiple Jasons are cool but there just isn't enough variation between them and there are (or at least were, at the time) only like half a dozen survivors. Only around 8 or 10 (largely interchangeable) maps too, I think.
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@HuDawg said:
I heard people talking about removed threads can someone care to explain what removed threads are?
One of the ones you made after this one.
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@Bambizzle said:
I dodge SWF lobbies. I like having chill games. Even if 4 survivors escape, its cool. As long as I'm enjoying the game. Toxic coordinated SWF try hards think otherwise.
I can deal with SWF by playing tournament style, where you have to proxy camp and tunnel. But I would rather not. It's just not enjoyable.
- PC only lobbies gets dodged
- 3 or more SWF gets dodged
- Friend list on private gets dodged
- 1000+ hours gets dodged
- 4 flash light lobbies gets dodged
- 2 or more toolboxes gets dodged
- Survivors with same characters, clothes and name theme gets dodged
The above survivors will find killers that are willing to play against them. Just not me. Been having really enjoyable games ever since I started actively dodging SWFs. The only time I would tunnel someone out the game is if they use For the people to insta save immediately after a down.
This may be a stupid question but how do you know that these are all signs of a SWF team? I'm a solo player and sometimes carry a toolbox or medkit, how can one tell that I'm not with the others even if they're together? On that note, how can I MYSELF tell? I'd just as soon play with other randos. I didn't know there was a way to identify a team (short of similar naming structure) from the lobby alone.
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So many comments about survivors being able to start doing gens too quickly yet here I am being attacked by killers within fifteen seconds of the match starting...
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Is there a way to see who made a topic before I click on it?
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@FrenziedRoach said:
I mean... if you aren't willing to take the challenge - Friday the 13th has a nice single player mode that you can destress in with very little effort.
You have to go in to DBD expecting that you might get one of those teams that run circles around you for 15 minutes. It is what it is. If you can't multitask well, it's going to be a headache regardless.
Were you responding to me? Because in my case it's just the anxiety disorder itself, the feeling of looking like a total ass because all the attention is on my inexperienced killer talents. I actually enjoy an active and somewhat challenging game. Friday the 13th does have a single-player mode, to its credit, but it's only Jason vs. bots (and not vice versa, for programming difficulty reasons) and sadly Jason is so OP and the bots so basic that it's not really fun. Maybe a good way for aspiring killers in this game to practice their confidence and aggression with, though.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2139394#Comment_2139394
Switch doesn't run at 60 FPS and has been heavily downgraded graphically.
I'm not sure if Switch has Crossplay with PC and other Console's.
No, I believe it runs at 30. What I'm saying is that I have pretty much the same experience on the Lite as I do on the PC. My performance averages the same regardless of which one I'm using. According to BHVR's own website it's cross-play with all other systems that also have cross-play, so some PC (or home console) players may be going against people playing a portable version of the game, and vice-versa.
You're correct about the graphical downgrade, that IS something I forgot to take into account, but (and this is subjective) I don't find it anywhere near as dramatic as people have made it sound. Some muddier textures here and there, sure, but otherwise the same game. This was done so it WOULD run as smoothly as its counterparts (which, to me at least, it largely does). Swapping between the two doesn't feel much different.
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@dspaceman20 said:
Did you just coin the term survivor toxicitism? I'm going to start using that.
I, Don King, am completely opposed to any kind of toxicitism and will be promulgating this pugilistic performance of perfectionalistic profundity with the utmost respectable, delectable, thrillectible, God-given grandiosity worthy of your precious pennies to the point of pugnacious perpetuity.
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@wxnickxw said:
I dunno I main nea but that's just because I started with her and since she was the first I leveled up I just sort of had more perks on her so when I leveled my other characters to unlock there perks I kinda just kept adding them to her since she already had the most perks and it spiraled from there. Do you guys play your survivors based on anything else, I mean they all play the same anyway
I did the same thing. I began as Dwight because I determined that his perks were most suited to my playstyle. After trying out some of the other characters as well and enjoying them too I decided to unlock all their perks and share them amongst each other so I could play as all the characters that I like whenever I feel like it. I swap between them all but many of my games are as Meg because I figure that if I'm going to be staring at my character the whole time it might as well be a really attractive one. I plan on leveling up a few of the other girls for the same reason, lol.
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@GodLikeTerror said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2137621#Comment_2137621
2080 TI 10900k here 64 gb ram. I still get frame dips and it's the only game I get frame dips on lol. Low graphics too
Nvidia Geforce 1060, 16gb ram, 3.6 processor. Ultra settings. No lagging or frame drops whatsoever. Is this game really that inconsistent? Half my friends don't play it because they say that their computer can't handle it, I didn't believe them but now I'm wondering.
EDIT: I just realized that most or all of you are playing on Windows 10. I forced my computer to work with Win7 even though it's meant for (and some parts are falsely listed as only compatible with) Win10. I've heard that some games perform worse on Win10, I wonder if that has anything to do with it. Wouldn't explain the console framerates that some of you are suffering with though.
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I don't understand why so many people are reporting frame drops / low FPS. This is admittedly completely anecdotal but I was able to get a 4K using Michael Meyers while playing the Switch Lite, with cross-play on, in a Walmart, while standing up against a wall. I've been playing this game for five weeks. Either I happened to get a bunch of people on other consoles who were somehow also newer and / or less skilled than myself, or the game held up well enough for me to be able to compete fairly.
I'm not saying that I don't believe you (I do, I have no reason not to), just that my own experiences, at least on the Lite (can't speak for the PS4) have been essentially identical to those on the PC.
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@BangBang said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2138826#Comment_2138826
But that doesn't deny the fact there are SWFs who utilize full potential of voice comms.
The point is, using voice comms gives you advantages more or less in some degree.
Some SWFs exploit the full power of voice comms like an army, some SWFs like you and your friends just use voice comms casually without caring winning too much.
But even with the casual way of using it, it's still more beneficial than not using them at all.
Like, when your friend gets excited and shouts while being chased, that's already an information which solo ques don't have.
The amount of advantage you get from voice comms varies, but as long as there are advantages in them, there will be people complaining how voice comms are unfair, because they are actually in a certain degree.
I was just giving an example but I know, you're not wrong. Not only were my friend and I likely the exception, not the rule, it's also true that even just reacting to each other's unintentional reactions are giveaways as to where the killer is.
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"Ideal world" hypothetical:
- Perfect balance. Everyone plays a lengthy, fun game with lots of points. Winning is completely unpredictable.
- No toxicity. No one abuses anything, no one pisses and moans about the other side pissing and moaning.
- No looping. I hate that this is such an integral part of the experience. I didn't buy the game to play tag.
More realistic:
- Allow survivors to block matches against specified killers.
- Massive reduction in cosmetic prices. Buying them all would be something like twenty times the cost of a full retail game.
- Realistic, fair, practical changes. A smarter ranking / matchmaking system. A reworking of the algorithms to ensure that killers start a fair distance from the nearest survivor. Better map randomness (any realm that has 5 maps should not have a 5x chance of appearing instead of realms that have only one). A props / thank you / report system that works.
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@sesawyer3127 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2139303#Comment_2139303
I hear ya,,,I even ran the add on "start farthest from the killer" and somehow the Killer finds me first and fast lol. This has happened so many times I avoid that addon in the bloodweb like the Plague lol.
Thanks for the confirmation. I'm glad to know that it isn't just happening to me. It's been driving me nuts. I could always post video but yeah, just tonight in Midwich I had the Spirit on me literally one room from where the game started me. I crept through one of those holes in the walls, started scoping out the next room, and the terror radius music came on and almost IMMEDIATELY switched to chase music. Same thing happened in the hospital, I start in a hallway so I begin creeping through two small rooms thinking "this makes more sense than being in the main aisle". Before even getting out of that second little room, here comes the terror / chase music. I don't want to lose my cool and jump up and start running because I haven't even been given enough time or distance to know where to hide. Yet by continuing to crouch I'm just letting the killer catch up that much faster. I don't mind being the first person the killer finds but my god, at least allow me to develop some spacial awareness first.
Wasn't by a gen, wasn't using the "furthest from killer perk", just randomly got slapped like 200 feet from the killer. That just shouldn't be happening (though I do appreciate the input about that perk, never thought of it that way).
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As a solo survivor main I try my best not to do anything toxic, ever. No teabagging, no moving around to various hiding places to wait for everyone else to do the work (like the Claudette I played with against Ghostface in Springwood tonight. Great work, Claudette player). I also swap between roughly four different survivors, and will make it 6 or 7 by the time I unlock all the perks I'd like. Nea is one of the characters I play. So, in short, I can speak as someone who plays Nea and does nothing deliberately toxic at all.
Speaking of perks, once the preferred ones are unlocked and "taught" then all survivors are the same except for visual differences, meaning that every one of them is equally capable of being toxic. I've never understood, for example, the people who say that they hate Meg. Why? What special powers does Meg have that no other character in the game can ever have?
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Is there any stat that keeps track of how often the killer starts within ten seconds walking distance of a survivor? In fact is there any minimum distance requirement between survivor and killer at all (I mean, beyond sharing the same screen) at the start of a trial? I played for roughly 90 minutes today and had at least 3 or 4 matches in which I JUST start creeping around to find the first gen and before I know it a killer is running right up on me. Literally fifteen seconds or less and the chase music comes rushing at me before I can do anything or even identify a safe direction to go. Surely I can't be the only person this is happening to, I'd love to know if there's a way to look at statistics of "fastest downs" or something.
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@MigrantTheGreat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2136788#Comment_2136788
While I strongly agree that survivor objectives is the main source of killer stress, I believe increasing gen times will only make survivor more boring.
I would propose instead of increasing gen times, give survivor's a secondary objective prior to gens. For example every 25% progress gens overheat and become too hot to interact with so survivor's have to find a bottle of oil to pour into the gen to cool it off, than it becomes intractable again. At the same time I believe this will shift the killer meta and give other perks a chance to shine.
I don't think looping is the problem, I think the problem comes from the fact that killers have to hope and pray that survivor's make a mistake or that they are out positioned to win the chase, instead of being rewarded for playing well (let's exclude Sally and Rin from this).
I agree with the negative vote of expanding gen times, but I also feel that giving survivors more objectives would sort of swap the roles. Then instead of the survivors just having to get gens (which isn't as easy as people make it sound, I've played plenty of matches where we get down to 2 or 3 gens and suddenly the tide starts to shift dramatically, the killer catching up and getting every single one of us), the "oil for the generator" system arbitrarily doubles how much the survivors have to do while not increasing how much the killers have to do.
Then the survivors (perhaps rightfully, I don't know) would complain that the killer is the one who has it easy. Every generator would now take maybe two minutes or more, given the extra task involved, while also forcing them to run around more and be more exposed. That's basically just advantage = killer, and some of the killers already have way too much of an advantage. I'd hate to not only have to handle a bunch of gennys and unhooking companions while also running for oil and finding the gen broken upon return while other companions are dying and the Spirit or Wraith are somewhere flying around.
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For me there's not an easy answer. I have GAD and as long as I'm the star of attention in a match, I feel anxious. Triple that with every mistake. Which begins a vicious cycle of me being too nervous to make any mistakes, thus making mistakes, thus making me that much more nervous. I hate looking like an idiot and being one of the few killers who often has less points than most of the survivors. It's not that I don't know HOW to play, it's that I'm not GOOD at playing, because it's difficult to just get out there and be aggressive and have fun. All the responsibility for my "side" resting on me and me only is too much sometimes.
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@Friendly_Blendette said:
I got all the killers and all the survivors I want so I don't have a use for shards and sometimes I have games where the survivors/killers were really good sports and I have even had killers give me tips on how to be a better survivor and I would love if I could like gift them 90 shards or something. I think this would also discourage camping/tunneling/generally being toxic as if you play nice there is a much better chance of someone giving you a few shards to help get you're next killer. Maybe even just have it be a give props thing that gives the other person like 3000 extra BP or something.
At the moment I could really use some shards, there are a handful of cosmetics I'd like to have but I already spent $50 bucks worth on my favorite ones and I'm not made out of money. Shards come at such a slow rate I have to save them for potentially good perks in the Shrine.
So yeah, I would love something like that. If someone doesn't have a use for their in-game currency it would be awesome of them to share, and of the devs to allow them to share, what they don't need with someone else who can use them. I'm in a similar situation right now: I have dozens of items and offerings that I either never use or don't need because I'm going to prestige a character and lose them all anyway. I'd just as soon leave them in a match for someone else. I've already done that with a couple of items like a loaded map, but doing this one at a time for 50 different things would take forever. I wish I could just donate them.
I also wish there was a functional thumbs up function (or even just an animation) anyway. Why have one that doesn't work?
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@Polishnope said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2138890#Comment_2138890
I am half of the time being called toxic for downing the survivor that was healing under the hook
I myself don't see that as toxic. It sucks to be hit right after you're unhooked, yes, but that's why players should only unhook teammates when it's clear. And a survivor who's healing right under the hook is basically asking for it, they're being bait as literally as they possibly can.
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@rosyvous said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2138875#Comment_2138875
Okay, my comment vanished after being edited, so I'll start again.
First of all, thanks for keeping the discussion cultural, I appreciate it. Second, I get your point. People are different, you can stumble upon cool guys or total douchebags. I have 1k hours in game, and I can say that I had fun most of the times. I am not the type of person who plays to "win" by escaping. For me it's more important what impact I had on the match, if I did good and if the match was fun for both sides and if it was competitive (but in the casual way). But then you have killers like this and you can't really do anything, especially on the map like Rotten Fields. I know that devs won't get rid of tunneling, but they said that this is the game of choice where for example from last stream they said, that killer has choice to either camp or go for another guy, and it's ok. But what's my choice when I'm being tunneled with nothing to help myself, and even god-like skills in looping has nothing to do, because besides 360-ing I have nothing.
I see what you're saying. What counter is there to being chased by someone in an open area? Objectively speaking I suppose you'd have to equip yourself with a strong evasion perk or two, and try to get better at juking / misdirection. I know that's hard though, and I try not to be the person who says "get better" because that's honestly not really advice. A survivor shouldn't HAVE to rely on specific perks in order to get away in an open field. That scenario shouldn't automatically be a death sentence.
And I'm like you. I don't play to win, I don't care if I win. I'll take it if I can get it of course, but as long as I have a match that feels fair, lasts a decent amount of time (at least 7 or 8 minutes), and ends with me getting at least 10-15,000 points, then I'm satisfied. I don't play to beat everyone else, I play to enjoy myself. And as long as I'm doing so, and making some progress along the way, then I'm happy. Fortunately this describes the majority of my games.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2138881#Comment_2138881
I agree. I've always thought it looked like a patchwork voodoo doll kinda face. Or like a IDV icon or something outta Binding of Isaac, I dunno. But it takes effort for me to see the gears instead of a face.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UPM46TSUOU4C/delirium-ingame.png
I actually didn't even see the gears until you mentioned it, so good on you. I just always read it as a cracked skull.
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@Polishnope said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2138879#Comment_2138879
There's a few definiton of tunneling the one that you are here using is chasing down one specific survivor the one that i am using here is chasing the survivor that has been recently unhooked .
That does not mean your definition is bad or something .
About that SWF i know a lot of people does not have ability to play with friends but if you are playing solo's you need to understand that not every survivor is going to be like top tier survivor player
I see. I've only seen "tunneling" described as obsessively going after one survivor and one survivor only, to the point that if they do it to you in more than once match they can supposedly be banned for it. That's the only definition I've seen but I agree that it may not be the only definition that people have for it.
If "tunneling" can also mean "immediately going back for the person that was hooked" then man, I get tunneled way more than I thought I did. :P
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@FrenziedRoach said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2138860#Comment_2138860
A wave-off animation would be flippin' awesome for the first stage of the hook.
In the early years, we've also asked for a "refuse rescue" via some sort of kick for situations where the killer is on the survivor's back, but I think the devs refused that idea early on.
Personally, I'd like to see the BP points for the struggle increased dramatically to encourage less survivors to suicide on the hook.
Did they explain why they didn't go for the idea? I understand that adding animations isn't the easiest thing to do and can often lead to various other conflicts, but it WOULD be cool to have a simple way of trying to express to other survivors that you're not interested in their assistance. I mean again, I've actually gotten killed because a survivor ran up and decided to go for the save even though the killer was clearly closing in on us. It's like "thanks man, you just hastened the struggle stage for me", lol.
I personally don't want an in-game communication system for a myriad of reasons, but a single gesture of disapproval would probably go a long way in encouraging better play. "No, I appreciate your help but please let me do this generator by myself". "No, I get what you're trying to do but focus on gennys, don't try to rescue me right now. I'm fine waiting for a better opportunity". Even if no points were given for the hooked survivor this would at least help to educate others to the fact that altruism isn't always the best play. But yeah, if some points or other kind of reward were given to a hooked struggler, then it wouldn't just make it a little easier to swallow for the survivor but also help to discourage suicides and disconnects, which I'm sure are just as irritating for the killer side. If a killer starts a game and within just a couple of minutes half the survivors DC, then he (or she) has also been removed of his agency. Now HE's the one who's being denied the ability to play the game.
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The survivor icon reminds me of a Madball. Anyone else here old enough to remember Madballs?
...Then again I guess they did get brought back for a while. Never mind.
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@Polishnope said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2138854#Comment_2138854
So dont play solo Q with players that has no BT Tunneling isn't toxic its just a unfun tactic for other side like bodyblocking .
I think you're swapping "tunneling" with chasing. Every killer can, and should, make it a priority to grab a survivor if they see one. Tunneling is a little different as it implies that the killer is only going after one specific survivor, even at the dismissal of other survivors. I've had that happen to me. I've been on a gen with two or three other people yet the killer goes for me, and only for me, despite the fact that they'd already chased me earlier. There are multiple other targets right there, but they have chosen to isolate me as if I'm their obsession and they'll get more points for it. THAT is frustrating.
As for not playing solo queues, some people don't have a choice. I don't, only two of my friends are interested in this game and they don't play it anywhere near as often as I do. I have no choice but to play with randoms.
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@rosyvous said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2138838#Comment_2138838
But I actually was tunneled immediately after being unhooked. Sorry for not being clear in main post.
No, you were. I was the one who misread it.
Firstly, the person who responded above is correct, there IS too much complaining about this game. I think that your concerns are valid and I'm not including you in this appraisal, but just to let you know, since your post count suggests that you're new to the forum, be prepared that there is a LOT of argument about just about everything in this game, lol.
My own experiences have been thankfully mixed. I've had some great, skilled, merciful killers who respected my play enough to let me survive at the end. I've also met devious killers who toy with me and allow me to think I'm going to win, going to the point of even opening the doors for me, only to then grab and hook me. Players, like people in real life, are a mixed bag. While I don't usually play as a killer I have also seen that the complaints of killer mains - that many survivors are toxic, love to taunt and teabag, etc., are completely valid. I haven't had one killer taunt me through chat after the game, but I HAVE had it done several times by survivors. Anecdotal, but it is what it is.
As for tunneling, no survivor likes it. Much of this game revolves around the looping mini-game, which I hate. I don't like looping because I have no interest in looping. I don't find it fun. I do it because I have to, and still need to get better at it, even though I don't want to. I wish that so much of the game didn't depend on this. But if there IS nothing to loop around, or in my case you're only just starting the game and a killer has already immediately honed in on you, yeah, it really sucks. What are you actually expected to do, other than magically be "better" or somehow have late-level perks with low-level characters?
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@FrenziedRoach said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2138798#Comment_2138798
This is why I advocate as I do. I'll try to break down my thought process now that we have this good dialog going and maybe we can see eye to eye. Because you aren't wrong - it does suck to be in that position where you are literally just rotting on a hook. I get it.
- Step one - make the playerbase understand camping is part of the game and the devs will literally do NOTHING about it due to the situations I outlined above. Nothing outside of incentivizing leaving the hook.
- Step two - when people understand it's part of the game, they'll stop blaming the killer for doing what comes naturally. Deflecting the blame on your opponent removes any incentive from the victim to seek other solutions outside of seeking punishment for the behavior which is a waste of time due to what I've outlined in step 2.
- Step 3 - Once people understand it's on them to train these killers better, more and more people will pound out gens and show these killers it doesn't work - people aren't going to take the bait. Their progression through the game will slow to a crawl. Out of boredom, they'll start seeking chases then finally understand what us more experienced killers have been trying to tell them.
- Step 4 - with it understood among the playerbase the right call is to do gens, less survivors will try to socially shame their teammates with "why didn't you rescue me calls" I understand some of this altruism comes not from the greed of points, but from social pressure to rescue teammates. However, the playerbase must understand that sometimes for the good of the team, you gotta let some people go. It sucks, but if you want a better game - you need to be better players.
The last step is probably going to be the hardest. People want to rescue their teammates either due to social pressure or those points. But sometimes the right call is to just nope out and getting people to accept that is hard.
To be honest I don't think that either of us are inherently wrong, I think that we just both feel passionate about our respective positions. I think we agree on the overall scenario though.
I do wish that other survivors, in general, realized that they need to play more strategically when one of their teammates is hooked. Work together as a team to try to distract and evade the killer while someone else sneaks in from behind for the save, etc. It's doable (if difficult), I've seen and participated in such things. I learned VERY early on - after like the second day of playing - that dropping what you're doing to go hellbound for the save is suicide. You don't want your teammate to die, because that's going to leave you at a disadvantage. But you don't want to lose another teammate or two in a save attempt either. You have to pick and choose your battles. And as long as the prevailing strategy is the kamikaze save, camping will remain a viable strategy.
I also learned early on that wiggling on the hook used to be a (more or less) universally recognized sign that read "the killer is camping, don't try to save me". But with new players who aren't appraised of this now somewhat obsolete code, the message has probably been misinterpreted enough as "I need help, come get me" to the point that wiggling does nothing either way. It sure hasn't in my games, where the players can generally be counted to do the kamikaze. Sometimes it does help, and I'm thankful. Often it doesn't, and my heart continues to sink as we lose even harder.
In lieu of more survivors using a bit more restraint, which for some reason doesn't seem to be happening as often as it should, I wish that there were a couple more animations in this game- one which is a wave off, like a "casino dust" that declares with a swiping of both hands, "NO".
Or, again, even just some kind of small BP "award" for suffering or something. Again, I'm less about punishing the killers for camping than I am for balancing out how miserable it is to want to play the game and find oneself unable to. If I got a reduced amount of points for the match, as opposed to nearly none, then it wouldn't be so bad. Instead of thinking "GEEZ, I cannot stand this camping crap" I could think "ah okay, fair play, he got me. If I don't win at least it wasn't a total waste". And if not BP (because those equal leveling up) maybe shards for cosmetics or something. That's all I'm saying, ya know? Just make the camped feel like they didn't totally waste their time. Each side can still do their thing, each side can still benefit from a one-sided scenario.
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People will likely scold both of us for this but yes, I too have had matches (way too many, to be honest) in which the killer was close enough to find me within literally ten or fifteen seconds, as I'm still sneaking around trying to get my bearings, and I'm pretty much instantly in a chase. They're faster, they already ran up on me before I knew what was happening, I don't know where everything is yet and I'm downed.
I don't know what the algorithm is for starting killers and survivors apart, or if there's some kind of minimum distance that's set between them, but lately I've had an inordinate amount of killers catching up to myself and / or the other survivors before we can even get to the first generator. That seems a bit much.
EDIT: I misread your post and didn't catch that you were tunneled not immediately but rather after being unhooked. My issue is a little different, I apologize.
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Yes. I rarely ever get her (and I generally enjoy it when I do, I like the character) but I've found that whenever I'm puked at it seems like 50/50 whether it goes right through me or hits me from a foot or so away like most killer's regular attacks do.
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@v4lor said:
90% of my games are babies, even at Red Ranks. They run past pallets and window and die in open fields. Going against even mildly coordinated SWFs is the most fun I've ever had in this game, playing since Dec 2016. Killer is in the strongest place it's ever been in the game, and it's not even close.
On top of that, when I SWF with friends you want to know what the comms is? 60% RuPaul memes, 30% dramatic screaming, 8% ripping on each other, and 2% talking about the current match. And yet we still win the majority of games, on average having 1 person die.
The reality is 99% of SWF you face aren't deathsquads, just people messing around with friends barely paying attention to the game. If you are losing frequently enough to that to complain on forums, then maybe the problem isn't "overpowered swf on comms reeeeeeeeee", maybe the problem is that you aren't as good as you think you are.
And no, being "red ranks" doesn't mean anything for validating you opinion. It hasn't for a long time. If you *are* red ranks AND losing that frequently, all it means is you've put in way too much time without any of that time reaping noticeable improvement, and again, the problem is you, not swf comms. A group of good players will win against bad killers, comms or not. Accept it, stop blaming outside factors, and get better.
I played with an actual, previously existing friend in this game for one day. Roughly five hours. We chatted through Discord. Most of our commentary was chatting to each other about what we like and dislike about the game, him telling me (as it was my very first play) how the game works, general gameplay mechanics, etc. Beyond that it mostly reacting to each other's heated exclamations, laughing and describing things that just happened, discussing what we thought about various maps as we got them, etc.
While this is obviously a little different than the "normal" SWF experience, I can speak for the two of us that this would be our regular candor. I've seen the Leroy Jenkins video like anyone else and all I can say is that when I play games with my friends we don't coordinate like we're in an actual war. We goof each other and have fun.
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This is apples and oranges but I don't know why killers like Billy are nerfed whereas killers that get, by FAR, the most amount of complaints like Spirit are left alone.
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@DemonDaddy said:
Get better at survivor. Killers can't camp until you have failed to avoid them.
The logic to be inferred from this comment is that all successful hits and hooks are the fault of the survivor, always, and that at a certain level of skill a survivor can avoid both in perpetuity. I find that to be a flawed argument.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2138756#Comment_2138756
Your asking for a punishment for camping.
The punishment is:
Lack of emblems,
Loss of bp (only hitting a survivor at max 4 times (getting 2 people max) rather than a potential of around 15-20 a match. That's a max difference of 4800 bp and chase points and kicking gen points and breaking pallets points. Plus loosing 2 kills worth of Bp.
On top of this often de pip-which when rank rewards come out will mean something.
Its not a laughable amount of bp.
The counter:
For the person first found- don't get caught easily (get good at looping, it's your job to waste the killers time as much as possible). On top of this don't give up on hook. Try and give people as much time to do gens as is possible + escape.
For the people not caught first- get your asses on gens once you've assured that they are being camped. You'll lose at max 20s doing this. That's more than enough time- assuming you get at least 2 gens done in first chase- to get out and make him only get 1 other person.
Other counters: DS, BT, soul guard/UB and DS.
So overall there's counterplay and punishment. If you don't like it, then maybe this game isn't for you.
The very first thing you said is that I'm asking for a punishment for camping, which is incorrect. In fact I've made many posts to the contrary.
You should attempt to objectively understand my argument before telling me that I shouldn't be playing the game.
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@FrenziedRoach said:
And let me make something clear here.... camping is not my default behavior. Hasn't been for a long time. Because let me throw down some facts for newbie killers here that think they've "Cracked the code" by camping.
See my post above? About 4 survivors and it only takes 80 seconds to do a gen?
If survivors were actually smart, you should lose 3 or 4 generators camping one person, and they have a good chace of probably get the 5th and walk out with you having no points.
The RIGHT play in most situations is to go chase somebody else. This game really is about time management, and survivors on generators is time the killer is losing. So if nobody is coming to the hook, they might be making you lose a LOT of your playtime with your victims.
Chasing sombody else guarantees that there will be at least 3 survivors not on generators for a bit. 1 on the hook the person rescuing them, and the person you're chasing.
Now..... camping is still viable in certain situations, which is why I often jump into these threads. Times when it's a smart play to camp include
- You've walked away from the hook previously and some nitwit immediately saves before you take 10 steps away. You've established a pattern of behavior from at least one of them at this point and can safely assume that one may be greedy for the altruism and may be nearby on the next hook. it's okay to make a sweep at this point.
- You've downed somebody near an active hook - 2 survivors are off gens now.
- You've hooked somebody and you turn around to find somebody appearing to bait you nearby and try and get your attention - you can't help but feel like there might be a 3rd nearby ready to pounce the hook. Go for a quick chase and see what they do - but I'd say it's allowable to turn around and see if they had a teammate waiting for you to take the bait
- The generators are done - you having nothing left but doors to defend and the survivors got a full game out of you. Camping is justified here and they really can't complain because, as I've stated, they got a full game out of you.
I now leave you to your regularly scheduled attempts at socially shaming players into playing in a manner that makes no sense to most reasonable people.
And you are correct that, when someone is being camped on the hook, the other survivors SHOULD focus on gens and only go for the save when there's a truly safe window, which presumably at some point there may be. But here are the two problems with that:
- If you're a solo player like me, there's no way to get the other players to realize this. Most of them care more about the altruism points (or perhaps just the spirit of the match itself) and go for the save as soon as they can. I can't tell you how many times I've said to myself "no, no, no, you idiot, just do that gen over there first", only to be unhooked, swatted right back down, and put right back on the hook to die. None of which I have any control over.
- If you're a SWF player and have a team with which you CAN communicate such things, many killers hate you and go out of their way to punish you for it it. I can't speak for this as I don't SWF, but I see the sentiment regularly.
So basically what it comes down to is that the survivor who is hooked loses no matter what. He loses because he can't play his game while he's hooked, he loses because the other survivors go for the save 75% of the time or more, he loses because he gets unhooked but the killer is right there to just smack him back down again, he loses because he gets virtually no BP if he's hooked early in the match, he loses by killing himself on he hook and sacrificing any potential gameplay if he WERE lucky enough to escape, he loses if he disconnects because then he gets a temp ban from playing, and lastly he loses because no matter what happens he didn't get to play the game and in may cases spent quite a few now-wasted minutes waiting to even try.
So, just to be clear, I reiterate that I'm one of what seems like a minority of survivors who feels that camping IS a fair and viable strategy. That doesn't mean that it's not absolutely miserable for the person who's getting camped. It's basically a complete loss of time and effort, and it leaves one frustrated and not wanting to play. It's not just a matter of being bored for two minutes, it's a matter of his agency being removed and getting nothing in return for it (and, to top it off, being punished for trying to get out of the situation and move onto another match so he can try to have fun again). It sucks to have the ability to enjoyably play one's game dictated by another player who insists on doing something that is, while fair, largely regarded as "cheap". But do I think that this cheapness should be banned or made impossible? No. Again, it's a valid strategy. I simply wish that it wasn't a total waste of time and source of complete frustration to sit there and wait for it to take its course.
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@Thr_ust said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2138759#Comment_2138759
I definitely wouldn’t mind something similar to the “dying as obsession” survival points being added to trigger on stuff like killer proximity or what hook you die on. Definitely would be nice to have another way to get survival points
That's all that I, personally, would like to see. I DO think that camping is a viable strategy because, as Roach has said, it CAN be countered. This is a fair and correct observation. My problem is spending so much time waiting to get into a match, only for all of that time (as well as the time of the match itself) to be wasted because I happen to get snagged by someone who wants to utilize this strategy. It's a combined ten or more wasted minutes of time. That may not seem like a lot but I challenge anyone who thinks so to immediately drop whatever they're doing the next time that they're having fun, walk to the nearest blank wall, and just sit there quietly staring at it for that same amount of time. It isn't fun.
A lot of people call for the camping to be banned, or for killers to be punished (killers ARE already punished, but so little that it really doesn't bear arguing. Besides which, many killer mains obviously don't care). To me it's less about saying "no, you can't do this" and more about asking for some kind of...something, anything, to make it worth having to sit through. Spending ten minutes or more with nothing to show for it but a few thousand BP is thoroughly counterproductive, to the point that I (and I think many others) would rather be doing just about anything else. If the killer wants to play that way that's fine, but at least give the survivor a reason to put up with it.
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@Thr_ust said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2138719#Comment_2138719
It’s not the killers responsibility to make survivors have fun.
this argument is the same as saying you shouldn’t be allowed to go on a killing spree in a FPS because it’s not fun for the other team.
Dead by daylight is a pvp game the fun of the other team should not be your concern both for killer and survivor. Now I’m not saying camping is always done as a strategy some do it just because they’re malicious. But sometimes camping is a viable strategy and people need to accept that.
I agree that it's not the killer's responsibility to make survivors have fun. That's why, while I find camping cheap, I've never called for its banning. In fact all of my posts regarding the subject support the killer's right to do this. That doesn't make it any less of a waste of time for the person who has to sit on the hook, not playing because of someone else's personal decisions.
That's why I've been calling for some kind of reward system for those who are camped. A point bonus to at least make it so that the survivors who have nothing to do all match have an incentive to sit there and do nothing. Throwing a bone to someone whose match was ruined because the killer was allegedly "trying to make the other survivors learn" would make it less of a waste of time for the camped survivor without punishing the killer in turn.
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@FrenziedRoach said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2138749#Comment_2138749
I know math quite well. In fact, let me throw some numbers at you
80 seconds to solo a generator, times 4 survivors
120 seconds to die on a hook
You picking up what I'm layin' down here yet?
If your math equates to "the other survivors can do gens instead of go for the save so who cares about the person whose game I'm ruining by camping" then no.
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@FrenziedRoach said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2138735#Comment_2138735
I don't understand why people pop a vein over hanging on a hook for 2 minutes out of their entire night...
If you don't understand how frustrating it is waiting up to five minutes for a queue, then another minute in the lobby as some ######### lets the entire timer run down, then another half a minute or more for the actual match to load, only to then spend two minutes of gameplay not actually playing the game, then I don't even know what advice to give you. Attend a math class?
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@Dragonshensi said:
Had two tbaggers at the exit gate. Other two already dead and it was a tough toxic match on Haddonfield. This Meg(of course a Meg) angled herself wrong with her tbag. When I hit her she fell away from the exit gate instead of into it. It was the most glorious thing to pick her and take her to a hook and kill her. My 2k became a 3k cause they wanted to be little dickweasels. Does anyone else have stories similar to this?
Hey now, I'm a Meg and I never teabag. I've never done it and don't think I ever will, unless the killer has been a REAL scumbag and is asking for it. I'm a grown man, I find teabagging childish. I laugh when I get an escape and catch a quick glimpse of a teabagger getting theirs behind me.
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@FrenziedRoach said:
"It's so boring". OMG, I'm so sick of this statement.
I find getting carted in Monster Hunter boring, so I get better at it
I find getting sniped in a FPS boring, so I avoid his kill zone and go around
I find losing all my HP to torpedos in World of Warships boring, so I learned to randomize my headings.
I find getting camped boring, so I punish the behavior by doing gens for 5 minutes.
Welcome to ######### video games.
Welcome to playing with cheap players who don't care if they make the game boring for everyone else, yes.
Hanging on the hook is boring. Period. There's nothing exciting about it. Any player, no matter how great, is susceptible to being downed and hooked. No one is excluded from this, yet I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of them don't find it to be an inherently positive experience. Camping doesn't strike me as any more fun than spending the whole game moving from locker to locker would be, unless the joy comes from ruining the experience for others at the expense of any real benefit to oneself.
I respect the killer mains who don't like to camp. They find it boring too, as they should. Just sitting there not playing the game is...well, sitting there not playing the game. I'd rather the both of us risk a loss by getting out there and actually doing what the game intended.
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@bm33 said:
All the non-horror and younger audience stuff on the survey makes me think DBD is going to start being adjusted to have a lower rating to bring in more/younger players since they tend to have more disposable income.
I was concerned about this as well. There were all those questions about whether we found any of the content offensive or if it had a place in the game. And then the Scooby Doo thing. This is on top of a handful of joke / meme outfits already in the game.
Please BHVR, I really don't want this game to be another Fortnite. I quit playing that game after a weekend because of how obnoxious it was and it's only gotten more extreme since.
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@CountInzwilt said:
In the new survey one question was what licenses we want in the future, and there where options given like F13 or Supernatural. But also Scooby doo! Is this really a serious option? What do you think?
I was seriously hoping that this was just a joke because if the devs don't think so the audience sure would.
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I just began playing DBD, sadly almost exactly when All-Kill was released.
My first survivor main was Dwight. His perks suit my playstyle. I've since transferred them to Meg, my babe.
I only play killer occasionally, it's a more anxious game to me. I don't have a main but on average I do best with Clown.
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@Senpavo said:
If a killer camps he gets less points. If a killer is camping and that killer can down you in a hit you, don't go for it. Simple as that.
The point loss for camping is negligible and from the amount of campers who do it it seems obvious that many don't even care. As for going after the person who's hooked, yes, you're correct, but when YOU are the one who gets hooked and camped, your game is basically over. You just sit there with your hands folded watching yourself not play. Where's the fun in that, especially after waiting through all the BS that you have to just to get to the actual match itself?
I do not agree that campers should be punished. I am on the side that feels that it's a strategy, and one that can be countered. But that means nothing to the person on the hook, who was unlucky enough to be snatched right away (usually because of tunneling but that's another topic). If something can be done for those who have to just hang out helplessly on the hook - let's say 100 point survival bonus for every second that the killer is within X amount of feet, after the first ten seconds of being hooked - then at least the game wouldn't be a total loss for the person who was camped.
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I think that Wraith went from great, solid character to OP. His bell shouldn't be silent (which in my games it seems to be on a random basis, unless it's something that the killer can control) and he certainly shouldn't be able to read auras. The guy can already zoom around the map at top speed while ######### invisible, that's not powerful enough?
All I know is that my Wraith games used to feel fair on both sides. Now I face him constantly and everyone loses because he knows right where everyone is and just flies up to them, silently uncloaks, and hits them. Rinse, wash, repeat. Where's the counterplay?
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Hook suicides (and for that matter, disconnects) happen because it's not especially fun to just sit there not playing the game.