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@JediWithASniper said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2009083#Comment_2009083
Well said. What do you say to the flip side of that which is, the threat posed by ignoring totems goes up substantially, and now survivors will cleanse them?
When I enter a game, I assume NOED is incoming unless I check the killer has 4 different perks. Cleansing 5 totems alone take 70 seconds of team effort along with finding them that tends to be quite time-consuming. In new and reworked maps some totems can be difficult to find even with Detective's Hunch showing its general location and if you fail one NOED activates. It's a trade-off of doing 6 gens instead of 5, not counting the searching time.
@katapad said:
Totems are in a desperate need of a rework regardless. The majority of maps have spawns out in the open, in fixed locations, appearing directly next to generators... etc.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2009083#Comment_2009083
This only applies if you're the only one doing bones. If everyone is keeping an eye out for the totems during the game and does them when there is an opportunity, NOED is useless and hex totems get cleansed. If you're that scared about NOED, run a perk to counter it.
I play mostly SQ and killer. I can't count on teammates pulling their weight and when they do, I can't communicate with them. Hex perks tend to be frequent enough that Detective's Hunch is a staple in my builds. Yes, Hexes need rework. No, making all totems dull is not the best approach.
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@JediWithASniper said:
Totems should not be lit and dull, they should all just be dull. Why do survivors need the alert that a totem is lit?
When RUIN is active, you have an affect icon showing onscreen in your HUD. So then you have to do bones to find it, or live with it.
This also buffs surprise Hexes like haunted ground.
So we by chance have to do 5 totems by luck? Like old Undying? The one that just got nerfed?
Before you start hating me, hear me out. There is an element of strategy in NOT cleansing dull totems, one that was cleverly used by many members of the community before Undying's debut. Say you're playing a game where the killer didn't bring hex totems and, by the time the last gen is finished, you've seen 3 dull totems. Then the exposed notification pops up revealing NOED is active and the 60-second clock for your teammate's death starts ticking. Remember that a totem takes 14 seconds to cleanse.
Scenario A: You ignored the totems. You now have a 60% chance of knowing where the totem is and you can head directly to them, check and cleanse if found.
Scenario B: You cleansed the totems. The only clue you have is that the 2 remaining totems are not close to the ones you destroyed, you still have to find them in less than 46 seconds and if they were not found so far, they are in some nasty hidden spots.
If another team member tries to rescue the best outcome is a hook trade for 60 more seconds and the worst is the killer getting 2 kills. NOT doing bones gives a better average outcome than doing dull totems. Exceptions for that strategy are:
1-You have Detective's Hunch and/or a map and know the location of every single totem.
2-You rule out the killer's 4 perks and confirm he doesn't potentially have NOED.
3-You run Inner Strength and need healing.
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The game needs more catch-up mechanics and less snowball IMO. NOED is not a reward for playing poorly, it's a reward for playing the early and mid-game with 3 perks.
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@Kolossoni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2008067#Comment_2008067
I think those are kind of unintentional since half of the time he pounces through, half of the time he doesn't.
He's a core mechanic around The Twins' gameplay yet he is so weak it makes me kind of wonder why they made them in the first place.
I personally don't find him weak. IMO there are many reasons for the twins to be unpopular, but I think that one that's quite important now is how unforgiving the little bastard can be for new killer players. Missing a pounce puts you in a vulnerable state that no other killer has.
The best comparison I think is Hillbilly. As a new player trying to learn how to curve around loops if you fail the survivor, in general, will have enough time to run halfway around the loop, but not to abandon it to a safer tile and you can keep looping around practicing with little to no downtime.
A new player learning to maneuver Victor will possibly be kicked after missing a pounce. You can't just try again, you need to wait for the CD, release the little person run back, and trying to find the survivor that is now possibly hiding. The punishment for someone trying to learn is exponentially higher. There is the other side to the coin, though. Survivors playing against Victor tend to stay somewhat closer to him so they can kick him in time. The game becomes spicier and feels like you can fight back.
That said, no zone on the map should be safe against a killer. Just like lockers were fixed for the twins, areas that can only be accessed through vaults are incredibly difficult for Victor to access, that's why I think he needs to be able to vault windows (Haddonfield houses being the worst offenders).
IMO, allowing Victor to pallet vault would just create the same stale playstyle of trying to dodge a Legion in Frenzy. There is only one pallet at the moment that creates a safe zone and it's in the reworked Gideon, but that is a dead-end and can be used by the killer to trap survivors inside.
In summary, I really enjoy playing against Victor and wish more people would put the time to overcome the twins' steep learning curve. QoL adjustments like the window vault could help there tho.
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He just needs to be able to vault windows IMO. He can already pounce windows and pallets with the exception of Haddonfield houses that launch him to the other side of the street.
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NOED is not gonna be nerfed.
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If you really enjoy dumpster-diving, I would recommend having Head On ready.
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@Hex_Salt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2004461#Comment_2004461
I appreciate the effort you've put into this and it's good to have people think outside the box. However the main concern i have is this is very very survivor sided. So what about the killer? Do you know how hard it can be to get 8 hook states at red rank? So now I have to get 8 until someone dies? What about ridiculous gen rushing? Even at a 3v1 survivors can still be optimal but now it's 8 hooks until any death? What about the sweaty 4 man SWF they already break the game is this gonna make it fair?
As I said i appreciate the effort and im not trying to be confrontational but please answer me this;
What's the incentive for me to play killer?
The love of the game- it comes and goes. And of late I'm getting impatient with the constant sweaty SWF
Balance- very survivor sided as is and nerfs to gen rush perks and combos don't help.
Higher BP than a survivor game- but is it worth the stress?
So, what's would my or anyone else's incentive to play killer be? Apart from increased stress levels and/or no longer playing as killer if this was implementation why implement this? Sure it'll help tje survivor side but having even less killers playing won't help it either.
Not including the low rank killers, facecamping or 'hard tunneling ' - aiming only for the unhooked and ignoring other survivor, as in going out your way to tunnel- ask yourself one question;
At higher ranks why does proxy camping and tunnelling occur??? What makes a killer do that? If 3 gens go in 2 minutes do you think I'm going to pkay by the survivor rulebook?
Maybe thats a question we should be asking ourselves
I believe that this is a deeper discussion between the devs and the community.
The hot topic and one that intertwines with this post is: what constitutes a win? The proposed changes skew the answer towards the 12 hooks instead of the number of kills. The only concrete info we have is provided by the in-game tutorial: Survivors need to escape, Killers need to kill as many as they can. But if you do either efficiently, you do not progress in ranks. If survivors fix gens and leave in 4 minutes no one pips. If the killer kill manages to down everyone in 4 minutes, no one pips either. That dichotomy is more a symptom of design changes that happened as the game evolved into something more than it was intended to.
If the game was remade today, I am certain many changes would be made to its core, or at least I would hope to. How would you change the game to make the premise of victory clearly delivered to both sides? There are many possibilities, my personal favorite would be:
1-Make each player in the Survivor Team select 3 different characters and 1 main to start the match, for a total of 12 characters in the team.
2-The 8 remaining survivors start the match trapped, inaccessible, and uncontrollable by any Survivor Players.
3-Hooking a survivor instantly kills that character, no questions asked, and the Survivor player goes idle.
4-Upon hooking, a limited duration trap key spawns on the floor by the hook. If the duration runs out, the survivor team effectively loses one active player.
5-Upon retrieving the trap key, any of the remaining caged survivors can be released and will be controlled by whatever an idle Survivor Player.
6-Idle Survivor Players can be rescued as a survivor character that belongs to someone else.
Hook counts effectively become kill counts, The killer can still camp the trap key to reduce the number of active players in a match, and the message of winning is delivered clearly to both sides as the number of casualties in the group of 12.
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Doc: Hate stealthy survivors.
David: He is nice to look at.
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@RyRapsYT said:
What is the point of the perk No Mither? It is so bad, if anybody has any arguments why it's a good perk please post reasons why.
Some perks are intentionally designed to be bad and that gives a frame of reference for players to identify when other perks are good. There is no design space to make every single one competitive, viable, or even good. If devs buff a bad perk into awesomeness, a good perk will become more undesirable or unfit for the meta.
No Mither is bad but is also THE bad boy.
The sin of bad perks is being forgettable. Very few in the community can tell without stutter the precise benefits of Babysitter, Premonition, or Dead Man's Switch but everyone knows what No Mither does. It transcended into a meme and is truly unforgettable.
If you're interested in discussing intentionally bad design, take a look at this video:
https://youtu.be/A_ndD-QmPJg -
@Superyoshiegg said:
Sorry, but a single game with bad opponents is not nearly enough to confirn such a bold claim.
Come back when you've tested several dozen matches as every single Killer.
Until then, I think I'll take BHVR's word on it.
There has been suspicion raised by anecdotal evidence by different members of the community. Then again, it might be biased.
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The idea sounds interesting, but I might have some concerns:
1-At the moment killers tend to search and find the weakest link in the group to focus, remove, and make the match a 3v1. How would the change solve the issue with a killer focusing on the weakest player to eat the most amount of team hooks?
2-How do you think a team composed of the average DBD players with a shared hook resource pool would address an inexperienced team member dipping too much into that communal resource?
3-How do you think the average first hook suicidal teammates would dip into that resource while trying to leave the game?
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@WiiFitTrainer said:
I dont think so. I main legion af rank 1 and I consistently get green-brown ranks every night. Its just typical bad match making.
MMR doesn't take rank into consideration for matchmaking. How have been the outcomes in your games on your main killer and on alt killers?
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Never seen a Nurse run SF+End. No plague wants to eat the stun and lose corrupted purge either. Slinger and Huntress don't run those perks bc they can shoot over pallets.
The only real options are the Chainsaw gang + Blight, but as I said it's a stunt you don't expect to pull twice against the same player. If I know one of those 3 have SF+End, I won't be trying to stun them either, I'll just drop early and let them have pallets for breakfast.
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IMO Vigil does too little to ever be meta. Those numbers need to be pumped up dramatically to be considered.
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Best one I've seen so far was Dead by Gay Dwight.
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Yes please
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I digress. Spirit Fury+ Enduring has a counter, you drop pallets early. It's a trick you cannot play 2 times against the same player.
We already have 80+ perks on each side. Wanna counter Doctor? Calm Spirit. Wanna Counter Spirit? Iron Will. Wanna counter Medkits and self-healing? Plague. Wanna cointer flashlights? Lightborn. You cannot counter every survivor item, perk, killer, and addons in the game. This only leads to an unpleasant game of rock paper and scissors where the side that didn't make the right unforeseen choice is at an inherent disadvantage.
If the options they give us are not self-constrained, there is little room for skill expression, only inevitability or poor choices.
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I'd be happy if they just kept the prices and allowed me to exchange the items back to the entity for half the price.
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@C3Tooth said:
Every topic about Jane, I throw this
"Careless" lol
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@Idontknowtbh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2001843#Comment_2001843
I only recently started playing as Jane and have noticed getting chased for a long time (considering I don't last long in chases) and getting one hit and automatically leave me without being the obsession so I now understand better.
Playing Jane and Kate is inviting guys with attachment issues
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Not 100%, but it is legal as long as the ECG is triggered. You should not prevent the game from progressing, like using Victor and Charlotte to body block everyone into the basement.
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Balanced Landing, Iron Will, We're Gonna Farm Forever, Detective's Hunch.
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I am not sure how I feel about that. My main issue playing legion is not the frenzy duration, but that I feel like a killer without power while trying to down an injured survivor.
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If they are well coordinated it can be incredibly difficult, but most SWF tend to be overly altruistic and you can exploit that. If one person is following you with a flashlight, that's someone less working on gens. Make sure to bait pick up and briefly checking surroundings.
Also, rescued survivors tend to overestimate BT to protect their peers, follow them for the duration of the Endurance but do not hit. They tend to panic when the effect is running out and you can get some clutch grabs on vaults and take their DS out of the game.
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T_T
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@ALostPuppy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2000656#Comment_2000656
Idk about restraint but discipline and range together is definitely pretty busted. The other ones are meh. They have nice effects but I wouldn't say they did anything significant. And I still don't know how Drey plays that much Doctor and doesn't get bored. 5 years of playing basically only 1 killer's gotta get old at some point.
I think Drey mentioned that he started playing Doc bc of difficulties tracking survivors due to color blindness. I have trouble finding and tracking stealth survivors and his toolkit helps a lot. There is an innate pleasure in dragging people out of their safe heavens that no other killer has.
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@Gay_Police_Dept This is the post, officer. This evildoer has been hoarding all of the pips that the system defrauded us in the past few weeks.
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Kindred is a mus in SQ.
Sprint Burst discourages a killer from chasing you.
Iron Will can easily make the killer lose you.
the last one to your taste.
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Period.
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I think Archdruid Drey only plays Doc without add-ons. He mentioned that some add-ons are so good (Doc's Restraint for ex) that after playing a while with them, switching to another just impacts your performance.
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So now we know where our defrauded pips have been going. I'm calling the cops!
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Balance and design are intertwined and if you want to keep those black and white, then there is no purpose in this discussion. Freddy was redesigned and reworked bc he was previously ineffective/unfun to play as or against.
1-The issue is that Freddy's new kit does a lot for him passively and effectively and I stand by this point. Also, look at the design gap that was left with his rework. All of his perks are supposed to build into this powerful late-game unstoppable monster only for him to lose his mobility?
2- Quantitative data is objective, the knowledge one extrapolates from it is not, just like the Nurse fallacy you tried to pull out. I'll try to illustrate the adequate logical negative for you. The opposite of the statement "IF a killer has high kill rate AND high pick rate THEN they are an effective killer" is "IF a killer is not effective THEN they do have low kill rates OR low pick rates". Guess what? One of the two free killers that I mentioned that are more popular than Freddy is Nurse, which still holds my statement as true.
3- "If they fail a Skill Check, the Generator will explode and lose 10 % of the maximum Repair progress. In addition, during 3 seconds, no further progression will register." Official source - https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Generators#Skill_Checks. Yes, you seem to have a lot of experience.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1998497#Comment_1998497
No one is disagreeing that his skill requirement is much lower than the other top tier killers, but that wasn't the question.
"1- He can teleport to the main survivor objectives without setting down or activate portals. This also makes half of his power useless in the late game."
Requires a cast time, tells the entire team he's using it and shows the person at the gen he's coming. What's the issue?
"2- His most effective addons are boring % penalties to actions and the ones that could be hun (fake pallets ex:) are gimmicky."
As I said, boring, but not OP
"3- Survivors are passively falling asleep. There is no way for Freddy to accelerate that besides hitting them. There is no way to slow that down, only wake up by going to the other side of the map."
Uhh literally just failing a skill check or clapping a teammate wakes them up. You aren't forced to the other side of the map.
"IMO, he needs change."
Nothing you mentioned points out a need for change.
The question was: Does Freddy needs Balance? I gave my answer as to why he needs it. His gameplay is stale, shallow, and effective.
1-Demo is the only one with a similar teleport and also "requires casting time, tells the entire team he's using it, and shows close-by people that the portal is opening" and it's still required to setup. Also, have you read the second sentence? No other killer that loses half of their power upon reaching late game.
2-Freddy has the highest kill rate among all roster and is the 4th in pick rate (behind 2 free-to-play killers). Can you show me official data that corroborates your statement that he is not OP?
3-Oh yes, bc it takes 2 failed skill checks to stay awake for the time it takes to fix a generator. 20% penalty that is equal to 16 seconds penalty while alerting the killer twice. When his best addon applies 8% and his second-best applies 4%. Sure, you seem to have quite the experience playing against him.
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They could change that to add some lore flavor or even balance changes in the future. I'd like to see more of the killer x entity dichotomy.
According to the wiki, the Entity has "the intent of feeding on its victims' strongest emotions" and " is described as an "Emotion Vampire", with sustenance coming in the form of strong emotions, such as the Killer's rage and anger, or the Survivors' desperation, hope or even affection towards other Survivors."
Hooking a survivor could count as an act of devotion by the killer, awarding certain benefits during a match. Meanwhile, if the killer camps for hook stages, he wouldn't be granted those benefits as they "deprived" the Entity of the emotions it could've been fed.
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A lot of Freddy's gameplay is passive or given. That alone makes him extremely effective in inexperienced hands. Freddy is just an easy pick for someone who doesn't want to put the effort into more skill-intensive killers and there is nothing wrong with having killers with different skill expressions. My issue with him is that there is much going on passively and lowering his skill floor moment that he becomes too effective, some examples:
1- He can teleport to the main survivor objectives without setting down or activate portals. This also makes half of his power useless in the late game.
2- His most effective addons are boring % penalties to actions and the ones that could be hun (fake pallets ex:) are gimmicky.
3- Survivors are passively falling asleep. There is no way for Freddy to accelerate that besides hitting them. There is no way to slow that down, only wake up by going to the other side of the map.
IMO, he needs change.
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3 of the 5 games yesterday had DCs.
One killer was going for adept Myers and DC after 2 or 3 gens were done. Another was a Freddy that DCed in Badham after he tried to predict me jumping down the window and lost me twice. The last one was a Dwight that was lagging hard in the beginning and DC in the late game (this one I think was genuinely just a poor connection).
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@Pirate said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/MI0BP0HEL79P/grafik.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9L0B83CQ7L8Y/grafik.png
For 2 big reasons...if you know what I mean.
Jokes aside she has potential.
Yes, SNU SNU
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Pinhead Please, and this one.
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@MongolPSR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1996411#Comment_1996411
It's really not. Can still see him from under 20m. Detection perks like spine chill completely counter him. Its also extremely expensive to run. If you pay attention you don't need the bell to know he's there.
I do pay attention, but not all maps are open like shelter woods and lots of gens have some type of covers that facilitate the ambush.
Also, I don't think it's fair to point out a perk to counter a killer's add-on that removes his main source of counterplay (the sound clue). This same argument could be used to justify pre-nerf prayer beads.
And the cost is rarely an issue. The majority of Huntresses I see use Iri head. I myself have a few survivors P3 with all perks and am dumping points on killers rn.
Coxcombed is just infuriating.
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BBQ and WGLF. They could do nothing in a match (WGLF did nothing until a while ago) and people would still use them.
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Are licensed characters on the rift? (Genuine questions)
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This meme is really paying itself.
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Not sure how I feel about this. There are gimmicky builds that only work on certain maps (spooky Myers) and removing map offerings would really discourage them.
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@Aneurysm said:
Wraith has good add-ons, which are fun, strong without being overpowered, and can combine to make for different playstyles. As add-ons should be. Before this the combinations were more difficult bc if you don't have windstorm you feel like an invisible snail.
Trapper has a similar thing going on with bag addons.
Coxcombed Clapper is OP.
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@Irisora said:
Why would he do that? Does he even fit inside one of them? Im sorry 🤣
IMO, change lockers for those small clown cars and let him ride around.
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It's so circumstantial. I usually don't perform unsafe unhooks when I don't have Bt, but if they are about to reach another hook state it's worth the shot even if you don't have BT bc they might have DS. Other times it's the last resort, hoping that the killer will slug them and come after me so someone else can pick them up or they might use UB. Even immediately unhooking without BT might be justified in a very late-game scenario.
BUT excluding the situations above, I've seen my share of scumbags. I was playing as Doc when a Bill unhooked the Ace not even 5 seconds at the beginning of the match. I knew what he had done when I turned and Ace just stood there, he had given up. My usual protocol when that happens is to eliminate the victim so he can find better teammates in another trial and while I torment the hookbomber in a 3v1. This time the guy was so broken that I didn't have the courage to do that, so I left for Bill. Even after I killed both, the Ace thanked me in the post-match chat. Some people love their stacks more than their mothers.
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Iron Will for the mind games,
WGLF for extra BP,
Kindred or Spine Chill if you hate stealth killers,
Your favorite exhaustion perk.
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I'd rather see the farm and swamp reworked. If it costs us new maps, I am fine.