jrinkwater
jrinkwater
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@four said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1906665#Comment_1906665
Chases were incredibly short, I got iridescent in gatekeeper and silver in the other 3 despite getting 10 hooks in total. Killer rank is 8. I don't understand why the game encourages you to chase longer, that's basically encouraging you to lose unless running Myers' perks
Because being chased longer means you are paired with players worth your time. Obviously an odd metric with such current trash matchmaking, but their intention is that.
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@Regulus47 said:
I kind of like the struggling we have now, feels very intense. Having it be automatic would make being hooked even more boring than it currently is.
######### lol. You are probably in a group of 8 people that think this way
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@Shirokinukatsukami said:
Doing gens is the counter, but it's not a solution.
Camping is a problem in this game but it's like nobody wants to admit it.
We've all given suggestions over the years to fix this but they fall on deaf ears. I used to try suggesting it before, if Killer is within range of the hooked survivor the sacrifice timer slows down or stops entirely if in face camp.
People said it's too abusable. Perhaps.
But the games mechanics are broken and make for camping and tunneling, and it's just a miserable experience for the person being camped and tunneled.
This is where you are wrong. Many admit it's a problem and even the devs have come forward to support it. Not only that, have heavily surveyed hooks on stream before. Now face camping? That's different.
Your suggestion, which has been said by many players... Is terrible. It is far too abusable. The timer should NOT stop or slow down. It's been explained a thousand times so I will spare my weak paraphrasing.
The only thing they "could" do is to have BP penalties within a small range of the hook that also affect one of the medals. But that range can not be far... because a killer shouldn't be punished for hooking someone in a basement and getting looped above them in a main building or kill shack. Even with this change, they will not be able to stop a killer from face camping because many who do it, do not care about that. And if they do, will find a way outside of that range.
What about Hag for example. A killer sadly allowed to proxy hooks? That would have to be adjusted as well. Where traps disable around the unhooked. Nurses blink back to hooks. Demos teleport back to hooks. So are we talking "camping" or specifically staring in your eyes. Because while the "face campers" can possibly be penalized a bit, those killers that can "return instantly" to hooks can still avoid punishment.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1903656#Comment_1903656
I don't think you even read the thread at all.
Hey, if you aren't going to actually respond to any of what I said.. then just don't reply to me lol.
You commented
"Why would a killer be rewarded with a kill by just standing still?"
I responded.
That's what you need to keep on topic with.
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Oh yea, the RNG that makes this killer the most inconsistent in the game where survivors will get it off in 1-2 boxes generally. Killer needs a rework of all abilities before add-ons can be touched. DBD is also not meant to be fully fair (iri head, inf t3 myers, etc). If you happen to be the 1 in 100 people that get their head blown by this add-on, then well... next game.
You mentioned the pig can chase you for some time, however... that ruins the Pigs game as the player will get gen rushed. In addition to that, your timer STOPS when you are chased or slugged. And if one of your teammates loops the killer to you while you are attempting to get it off, a player SHOULD force you off that box and send you on your way with your timer.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1903644#Comment_1903644
Why would a killer be rewarded with a kill by just standing still?
Well, the killer doesn't if the team forgets about you and finishes the game. Which is what should be done.
And killers aren't rewarded for hook camping unless silly survivors take the bait. Often depip with low BP earnings as well.
Is it right? Well, it's not fun. But the killer isn't here for your fun or your rules. They either admitted they can't compete or they just don't care to. (This is exaggerated by tome challenges, dailies, or just plain being annoying)
I get facecamped all the time. I get smacked on hooks. I get trap spammed all around hooks (which is a bigger problem)... and I just deal with it. Because like it or not... the counter is to occupy their time for your teams gain.
Now the killer also robs the team of map pressure which in turn robs them of points as well... but hey... do you expect change anytime soon with the tiny amount of bug fixes and content we get?
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@JPA said:
Poor Bill was actually trying to work gens whilst you guys were wasting time with keys. I'm glad he got the hatch in the end though.
Same.
Can't wait til the key/hatch system doesn't reward players for disengaging with the game.
I do not feel the Bill did anything wrong. I don't really think you did anything inherently "wrong" either. Just didn't play out. Killer got two instead of one so he is happy
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1903631#Comment_1903631
The issue I have with that is that I am not in a SWF. Why would a SWF get more points for doing gens while me, the solo player, is hanging on the hook for like 2 mins?
Because to the games way of recording effort, you didn't do anything. You shouldn't be rewarded for being camped. It sucks, but why on earth would you get a reward lol?
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@Shirokinukatsukami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1901333#Comment_1901333
You're the only one who likes to do that.
Riiiiiight.
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@ASpazNamedSteve said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1902452#Comment_1902452
I don't wanna be whiney, but I feel like almost 5 months is more than enough time.
Oh yes, it is. Way more than enough time and certainly a large flaw to be IMMEDIATELY addressed.
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You know I never understand the hate or love for dead hard. As a survivor, I avoid meta perks generally and don't find the need to use it. As a killer, I never find it hindering me as most are obvious with it or are forced to use it in a chase at a point where gaining distance to a pallet/vault isn't an option.
I laugh at dead hard as a killer because it almost never does anything for the survivor. But I do love a survivor that does it right and extwnds the chase because... fair play. This perk should be at the bottom of the list of things to address atm. OoO and DS are the only glaringly obvious perks to address on the survivor side. (Tick tock)
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@AnnoyedAtTheGame said:
Having a totem counter in game will give such a massive negative effect on totem based perks. This would be another killer nerf again.
Bingo. It is completely unnecessary and will not be healthy for killers. Totems are far too counterable already.
To the poster above, it takes like what, 8 seconds to cleanse a totem? This is hardly ANY time on gens when you compare it to the time a killer loses (regression or element of surprise)
Totem counters, if anything, should be an option widget on the UI for a killer. But honestly, neither side should have this information
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The way I don't get upset is, I focus the key holder for just being silly enough to not drop the key in a safe spot. But I remember your face, oh I remember your face <3
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@AhoyWolf said:
It will hopefully come in the next Chapter, I heared that the reason for Blight's toddler PoV was due to balance reasons... (I think I heared it in one of the Dev streams when the Blight came out, but I'm not really sure)
Sure its great balance to make the camera see ants but let his model kiss the sky.
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@darkcloudlink said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1901333#Comment_1901333
SWF groups don’t get any benefit out of a totem counter because they can already tell each other how many totems they cleansed each, it makes no difference in that regard. And knowing the number of totems doesn’t hurt NOED really because you still have to go out of your way going across the map to look for totems. The only realistic benefit survivors get from knowing that information is whether or not they have to waste time looking for a totem, or if they can just do a different objective. The issue with not having a totem counter is that the devs are promoting totems as an objective, but with so many hex perks, it’s not really optional anymore. When there was only ruin and devour hope and what not, it was fine, but now we have undying which makes running hex perks a viable option for killers, and adds a layer of free pressure for the killer (with the caveat being if they’re cleansed, it’s a wasted perk slot). All in all, it only really helps to make the game more fair for solo survivors.
It makes a huge difference for SWF. Totems are already easy as hell to solve hex problems with their predictable and terrible spawn spots. Especially with the ruin undying nerf only requiring 2 cleanses... not sure it needs a further weakness. (And I never run ruin undying). The caveat you mention is literally this in red ranks...
Spawn. 1 gen touched. Ruin gone in less than 4 minutes. And you mention MORE fair for survivors? This game is already heavily tilted in their favor. Don't get me wrong, there are some things tilted in killers favor as well, but not nearly as much.
I am personally against totem counter. You raise valid ideas but I just do not agree
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Full console lobbies or key lobbies.
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Am I the only noob against this? I don't want a totem tracker. I like the idea of hunting them and not knowing if they are all cleansed. My immersion is being eliminated as this game grows and some element of surprise is nice. I, myself, like to do them but would hate to know the count as I have absolutely memorized every single spot. You'd be sorta helping solo que survivors but immensely helping SWF groups. As someone that does both, I am just sick of the info in this game. Hook counters is one thing, as is gens because they are a main objective.... but totems? Let them be in the killers favir by being a question. If its hex anyways that is active, totem counter hardly matters. Really only hits noed hard.
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@SocialDistomancy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1898602#Comment_1898602
Sometimes, somebody is waiting at a gate if they feel more confident about getting out safely that way and believe they have enough time on the gate they're on to open it and get out. I've done that quite a lot by now. They always look for the hatch, are faster, if the gates are far apart and on the map I think I have a better chance of going for the gate and hiding near it I do that instead. Not too often, but over time I've done it a lot.
Hell yea. If i got a thought that the killer was looped by the hatch, im waitin at a gate
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Devs are well aware and have acknowledged. Probably going to have to wait for map rework?
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Prestiging for me did not yield any better bloodwebs.
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@SocialDistomancy said:
Your own title is it's own brand of clickbait.
Yep
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@TheClownIsKing said:
Play with your friends. I don’t care about that.
But maybe play the game as intended once in a while instead of with information bloat.
How about... no :) you can not ask in 2021 for players to not add their friends and coordinate. Sorry. And this game is not "intended" to be without comms as it is not bannable.
You know what's more problematic? Perks like OoO, spine chill, chase music, and all the other indicators that hand hold players to avoid a killer before approach
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@Rawrbot5k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1901279#Comment_1901279
I main hag when i play killer, and for the most part hag and her built in mechanics are one thing but something that any killer can take advantage of every match (whether they do or not) punishes the survivor on hook. Hag strategy allows players a chance to run, chase, unhook etc. This strategy screws everyone over in terms of pip gains, bp gains and enjoyment of the game.
You are incorrect. Any hag player can be oppressive with their traps on hook and you will not escape those who know how to hit right off the trigger.
The survivor who is camped just has to deal with it. To be transparent, I agree with what you're saying regarding how it affects everyone but there are too many variables to redesign to fix this, and it's not just rewarding pojnts or protecting rank. And honestly, do not ever expect BHVR to ever do it. Watch the devs play their streams, you will see they don't see it as a problem to be fixed. Hell, even seen it done by them (heavily proxying as well).
You see, they admitted they aren't seeking to create a balanced game. And players are abusing the less skilled options to vent their frustrations since the incentive to play is not there. A lot of the playerbase is hardly having fun nor inspired by content. There is really no design shaking up this old game and the devs don't seem to be in touch with the community in the slightest.
So take your pip loss, bp loss, and just head to the next game. Or play killer and play it your way
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@Rawrbot5k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1901273#Comment_1901273
And for the record I am blaming the game for not balancing this out. Killers lose what 10-20 points for "proximity to hooked survivor" shouldnt survivors be compensated similarly?
What system do they create to reward a player that did not do anything? And no, killer usually depips and gets horrible bloodpoints by camping three hook states as long as no one falls for the bait
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@Rawrbot5k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1901273#Comment_1901273
Still climbing up ranks is hard enough after a certain point without the hidden punishment of an unsportsman like "valid" strategy. Survivors should get a bonus to points for proximity to killer while on hook. "Staring Death in the Face" or something.
Climbing ranks personally is not difficult in the slightest. But for arguments sake, camping is a strategy even if a bad one. Take hag, she spends the entire half the game optimally locking down three gens and killing players off hook. In fact, that is the best strategy for a hag.
Is it bs? Sure. But how can they punish it? Honestly camping one player punishes the killer greatly in my games.
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@katoptris said:
I'm still tryna to figure why both sides dc cause they lose or goes down first.
Like this is anything new in the gaming world lol
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Blame the game not the killer. He admitted defeat. Now your team can easily win and go fight a killer worth your time.
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@Gay_Police_Dept said:
embrace toxicity?
I love it, it fuels me. That's the main reason why i love playing pvp games :D
By that i mean that i love getting toxic pm, i'm never the one who starts it.
I love watching people be toxic to each other immensely lol. And i love it thrown my way too, because no matter what you say I have nothing but funny, relax responses and I am smiling :)
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Here is the truth. As someone who is often face camped by red rank bubbas...
He is fair and sorta balanced.
Problem is his camping potential as mentioned above. And that's not really a bubba problem, it's a game design problem. It's not nearly punished enough to do it and thus people do it. Often because they are triggered (I have a clip of going down nearly when the game starts after looping one all over Haddon... and he sat on the hook in my face til I do while everyone did gens and left. He kept smacking me)
We are getting to the point where the entire hooking system, positioning, and overally mechanics are outdated and aging poorly. But at this point, this is what system we have and we will just have to deal with bad games at times if a killer wants to throw the game to piss you off or bait the team.
My rules are always
1. If i am being facecamped pray my team finishes everything and lets me die. I understand
2. If i am hit with NOED, kill myself off hook because game allows so no one has to lose to risk getting me because the killer rightfully only has one choice to proxy my hook
3. Not take it personally and just move on to the next game and NOT play killer the same way
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@GodLikeTerror said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1899061#Comment_1899061
I don't look for validation or anything. I just try to be nice, but it seems like it will backfire in this community, because people can't appreciate anything, but instead complain because of their mistakes. Instead of fixing their mistakes, they much would rather pin point the problem on someone else rather then themselves. I don't know I've played games way more longer than dbd I have 1300 hours in, but the old cod days most of the toxicity was banter and fun, and a lot of the older games before companies started cracking down on toxicity and actually banning people for it. DBD it's legitimate toxicity over people just messing around. I think I've been called every name in the book on this game, and told to jump off a cliff etc... You get the idea, but it's legitimate over banter. I think that's a serious problem. It doesn't hurt my feelings at all, but at the same time it's just like why do it.
Again. What i said exactly, stop looking for appreciation. Why are you even concerned with being "nice" and others acknowledging or accepting it? Call of Duty toxicoty was certainly not banter and fun in the higher tier lobbies (speaking call of dity mw2/4 era) but I can not speak on any of the newer ones.
All the things you are describing (violent toxicity which is rare to ever be more than empty words to trigger you)... is far more prominent in other games because of voice comms or access to other ways to reach put to you. DBD i pretty tame with one liners or sentences meant to bait you into being upset.
It's not that you being nice is backfiring, it's that no one asked you for it. How people play the game with you is generally how they play with thousands of other killers and absolutely not specific to you. You seem genuine but I implore you to not except it in return from others because that's just not the way they want to behave. Just adapt how you react internally.
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As a pig main I may not like this idea, but I do really appreciate the thought put into it. Right now pig is low tier (very low) based on consistency. But her fun factor is suspense, as mentioned above. This rework idea takes away from the game and just makes it added objectives. Put lock on, survivor runs ti box and removes, 3 times potentially.
Having players run around and pray gens don't pop and having no clue above where pig is at times in between searching nor their attempts is great. Honestly, I do not think ANY survivor should see box auras UNTIL ACTIVE. (remove the add on doing so or change it). The 1,2,3,4 idea is also thought out but still leaves two survivors guarenteed to remove their trap without much effort and it becomes "hope im the 1 or 2" instead of complete confusion.
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@offwhiteknight said:
I'm curious how often Killers dodge lobbies and why?
I know I will occasionally dodge a lobby if I catch a whiff of the "griefer team". You know....key, map, 2 flashlight, and they're all steam friends or private profiles or console players. I mean, honestly, killer queue is so fast it doesn't really matter to me. I'll be done with a game before they're even in one.
4 people with the same identical skins
multiple keys
3/4 toolboxes
All PC players with multiple TTVs (not that I can't beat them because I do often, it's just they tend to make it feel like a trolly game fighting perks and not players)
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@[Deleted User] said:
Just had a streamer just abusing his team so much, insulting them and such in post game.
They just kept going on insulting me, insulting their teammates, being a vulgar awful human being- yet this person has more viewers/followers than some decent streamers who are not terrible people.
This is the kind of behaviour that this community endorses and chooses to exemplify as the "okay" behaviour. I just can't stomach it any more, nothing is done about this kind of thing in game, I know there is nothing done because I have reported someone in our discord for telling people to go kill themselves, get cancer and die, and so on in postgame chat in the few matches I played with them and nothing ever came of it ever. Eventually they got banned from the discord thankfully at least.
Still; why on earth does this community insist on treating everyone like absolute garbage?
Just..leave..the..lobby. Close..chat. You are choosing to be affected by it. And don't say "this community" because some tainted your day.
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Ya when a killer kills me with Noed, I don't even feel a way about it. I just hope my team is opening the gate and prepared to leave me behind. :)
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@bingbongboi90 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/222190/is-it-too-much-to-ask
If tunneling needs to be punished then also survivors who sit on gens.
Tunneling is Just the most effective way to play killer. It also punished survivors when they make bad Plays. For example standing under the hook after a unhook for their we Will make it.
The ungoing trent i see with survivors these days is that they want to nerf anything that can happen to their misplays.
You can not compare tunneling to gen repair. lol. I understand what you are trying to say, but it is not the same. It's also not the most effective way to play the killer in MANY scenarios or for many killers.
With that said, to the OP...
You are frustrated... they are trying to... stay... rank 1? Huh? Don't be upset at people playing their best and using the mechanics of the game to frustrate you. They are NOT there for your fun and do not have to give you any sense of accomplishment. They are there to outplay you and piss you off to throw off your game. Just like when a killer tunnels or camps hooks, I've finally learned myself that either the killer has admitted defeat and is resorting to scraps... or they are baiting everyone to fall into their lap. Survivors literally can just go do gens while they killer camps and leave their friend.
I've never waited 19 minutes for a killer match so your problem may be regional. My wait is generally 20 seconds to 6 minutes. You should be penalized or receive less for facecamping and camping hooks. You aren't chasing, kicking gens, breaking pallets, hitting other survivors, or any of the other parts of the game to acquire rank/BPs. You deserve to lose rank lol, just like survivors that AFK on gens and don't do anything else who walk away with less than 16k BP and may lose a pip for a quick game.
I play both sides equally. Both sides need nerfs to many things and need more punishment. But one thing that will always be true is... no one is here to make your time good or fun. There really is no such thing as a "sweat" or "tryhard"... other than gamer terms that attempt to put a negative mark on a player. Just relax and try to not take anything to heart.
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I love franklins because my friends freak out and rage over losing pixels in a video game where they aren't even necessary to win lol. I think it's funny and fair.
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How about just stop looking for validation or appreciation and just play the game. Take nothing personal. Kill them all or give hatch, but close end game chat and goto next.
Literally just stop taking it to your emotions and literally understand you're all playing a videogame. What they say or don't say has no merit.
And to add, by far the LEAST toxic game I ever played lol. (Counterstrike, rainbow six, league of legends, cod4, etc)
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Both sides for sure.
I get revealed by nonsense
and I seem to struggle revealing him in plain sight
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@[Deleted User] said:
i guess it is technically a buff
it's 100% a buff all around. And you can still play as normal if you want with new reload
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@AnnoyedAtTheGame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1895596#Comment_1895596
Don't punish player for playing with their friends. Punish them for using comms.
I laugh. So hard. Because comms like discord can not be banned and will not even be close to a discussion. swf features saves this game. Even as a solo player I can't imagine the population drop without the groups lol. And comms? That comes with it.
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@DoctorMadness said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1886901#Comment_1886901
For the last freaking time DS WAS NOT DESIGNED AS A ANTI TUNELLING PERK holy s*** how many times does the devs have to say this crap
HOLYXHSHASDHA Dude. Whether it's said or not, it's CLEARLY designed as anti-tunnel disguised as "anti-momentum." It's a really dumb perk in its current design.
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@crunchie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1896303#Comment_1896303
The end game collapse I get that is a strategy not at the beginning of the game. kindred is a good begging game perk for hook campers. I was only implying they do more for it because the beginning game plays get hook camped and never play the game again. For the traps yeah something like that. I had my friend in the basement and the trapper had doubled up traps all the way up the stairs making it impossible to get him. Now he doesn't want to play because he doesn't even have a chance to get better or even play lol. I was trying to throw ideas out there because I want more people to play this game including my friends. hook camping is toxic and is killing the chance of new players.
Kindred is respected by the top players of this game as being a solid perk for ALL levels of skill. It is quite a stellar perk for ANY solo survivor to run. It is absolutely not a beginners perk.
The entire system of traps/hook camping is so stupid. That we agree on strongly! My 2 friends I just got the game for quit within a week. Rank 20 going against Rank 10 and 3 and 1's. Constantly. Hook camping can be toxic a lot of the times (while surveying the hook imo is legitimate mostly). New players hook camp because of pressure and lack of game sense. That won't change unless they change alot to this game, which they will not
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I can play 20 survivor games and call it a night sometimes. I can only stomach maybe 3-5 killer games.
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Well, Maybe 2 out of 10 games I meme along or play nice. 8 out of 10 in my red rank games survivors are annoying and entitled. So I do everything to power up my fun and destroy theirs ;)
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@crunchie said:
HOOK CAMPING IS CHEAP AND RUINS THE GAME.
Can the Devs please do more about this. I don't want to play this game anymore because of this. I know ways to counter it. But against bubba or insta down killers its a switch off.(or they pull you off while unhooking) . I've been playing for a long time and only see it in high ranks 11 and above. but I've been trying to get friends to play this game and now they don't want to because of this. I want to make this game enjoyable for both killer and survivor.( no I was never toxic and its right off the bat hook camping.)
- Can you put an automatic kindred after a few secs. (I don't want to waste a perk slot because of hook camping)
- More blood point loss because they always break even or pip up
- Stop the bleeding out while they face camp
- trapper traps cant put all of his traps in one area.( around the hook )
- If I do get hook camped I don't loose progression or blood points.
1. For one, kindred is one of the best and strongest perks in the game. Not a waste. The devs aren't going to grant everyone free kindred for a killer camping a hook.
2. They do NOT always break even or pip up. Can absolutely be a loss. If others do gens and leave you there to die... the killer loses so much hook, chase, and other potential earnings.
3. This will never work. Too easily abused by both sides
4. This should be a given for both trapper and hag. Where the traps disable within a small radius (8m?) instantly during the unhook.
5. I mean... you got caught. You got camped. You are going to lose points and rank. It is what it is. Do I wish there was a measure to stop this killer "plan"... yes. But I sure as hell think it comes with a complete overhaul of a few mechanics which I do not trust the devs to ever get done... or even start. Plus, hook camping at end-game collapse is completely understandable, which would have to be differentiated.
Look, in the devs and many players minds... this is better for the survivors to rush the killer out the game. But, at the cost of this game rewarding (even just satisfaction of ruining someone's game without playing the game with effort) + grooming bad behavior. I'd be less frustrated if they just remove this AWFUL struggling design to something that isn't annoying and that doesn't allow players to just give up cause their tilted or stupid fking hatch plays.
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@LittilAvindar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1870456#Comment_1870456
"I think I heard..."
Oh boy, someone who can't articulate their actual point.
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Maybe I am lucky, all my hours with this game and I can't say I ever found 1 cheater
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All these comments that no one plays Elodie lol. ..? I see her all the time. I've seen Felix or Ash maybe less than 10 times since the last two months.
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I don't see a difference any day of the week.
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@Ifill99 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1882763#Comment_1882763
Why the ######### do I want to pip up, playing this game on red ranks is just literal cancer, if you're proud of being a rank 1 solo good for you, but don't expect others to grind out the most mind numbingly ######### parts of the game and farm your friends and hide in the corner, but I know if you were being chased by the killer for more than 30 seconds you'd crumble, rank is not about skill don't get it twisted, it's just the most hours you've played... Loool if I just need to 'practice and get good' why am I at rank 2 makes no sense, I want to pip down but there's no way I can since this game is so bad I have to be stuck on my rank without dcing... Just ######### dull now
I made a suggestion because you are complaining. Rank 1 isn't even mind-numbing lol.
Getting down in 30 seconds? Well, buddy. You sound like your ego and pride are both damaged. I'm sorry to hear that. Most players who are "decent" at this game can loop far beyond 30 seconds, and 30 seconds is still a "decent" amount of time. We don't hide in corners and farm our friends. That's simply YOU projecting and YOU not self-assessing your lack of skill to overcome your mistake.
Take it out on yourself, not everyone else.