jesterkind
jesterkind
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@The_C12H15NO2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2814815#Comment_2814815
Nah Undying was nuked into oblivion. How often do you really see it these days? I only see it when I play against Blight. Meanwhile the COH "nerf" only added a couple seconds extra. So yes technically it was a nerf but it didn't change the new meta.
Boons need either tokens so survivors don't have unlimited blessings and/or killers should have an option to bust the totem so it can be reused.
Could you elaborate on why a token system or breaking totems would be a fair nerf for the other three boon perks, and how it'd actually fix the problem of CoH?
From my view, it wouldn't be fair and it wouldn't fix the problem, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2814848#Comment_2814848
I think original poster is asking though is, for example, say I’m awesome with Doctor and I play Nurse periodically. I play Nurse a few times, my MMR is really high because I’ve played a lot of Doctor, and I get decimated when I play Nurse because my base MMR is so high. Losing with Nurse lowers her individual modifier and my base rating very slightly after two or three losses. I go and play Doctor again ten more times, win a bunch of matches, and now when I play Nurse again my MMR is even higher with her.
...Is that how it works? I don't think it really works like that, I think the averaging only kicks in when you first start playing a killer.
I also don't think that is what OP is asking...? But I'll definitely let them chime in to clarify before I go any further.
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Well, the reason you don't start from scratch with every new killer is because having a high MMR on one killer means you know how to play the game.
Sure, you won't know how to use the new killer's specific power, but you understand general gamesense and can at least loop as an M1 killer for a bit while you learn. Starting you against genuinely new players would result in you stomping them even if you never use your power once, because you already know how the game works in general.
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The difference being that while survivors were finding all four totems (in different spots, mind you), the effects of the very strong Hex perk that's associated with them is still active and the killer is unaffected, able to continue chasing and pressuring.
Compare to boons. Hell, compare to the actual problem, CoH- usually relit in the same spot, and inactive once snuffed. It's not a constant map-wide healing boost for the entire match, it's intermittent location-specific healing boosts that requires a survivor go out of their way to relight it.
Is that balanced? Absolutely not, CoH is a monster and it needs a proper rework. Is it comparable to old Undying? No, not even close.
I've noticed that people are really bad at separating the boon mechanic from CoH in specific. Boons aren't completely fine, there are some problems, but they are not synonymous with the gigantic problem of CoH- and no change to boons as a mechanic are going to do the job of fixing CoH, either, it has to be a change that affects the perk itself since it already breaks the intended design of boons to begin with.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2812720#Comment_2812720
Low to mid C tier should never be okay. Imo all killers should be A tier or at least A tier when played properly.
That is literally impossible by the very nature of how tier lists work.
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Nemesis is very fun! His zombies are really nice info, too, if their arms go up that means they're chasing someone.
Once you get good with his tentacle he can be beastly, too. He's one of the two legitimately antiloop killers in the game, and knowing where you can get a hit makes him very viable.
Welcome to the Nemesis fanclub, my friend.
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Agreed, it's very cool and I love seeing more inventive M1 weapons.
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@Kurri said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2812943#Comment_2812943
If it takes the Killer and Survivor to get to the same place in the same amount of time, it's just easier to say equal. It's not my fault you didn't understand, or you're just trying to nit pick and trying to make others look bad to push your own biased narrative.
That's a pretty huge "if".
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@Kurri said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2812925#Comment_2812925
Right. Now include map layout (windows, tight corners, etc). If you look at "other" forums, you can see people discussing how 2% breaks the game for them, and subtle enough not to get caught.
Oh right. Totally forgot. Survivor skill is based on players that don't take the time to learn the game, while Killer skill is based on Otz. I was speaking like as if we treated everyone to have the same skill level. My apologies, completely forgot.
Nah, dude, you said it "raised survivor speed to equal killer base speed". That is flat out wrong, and a completely different argument to the one you just swapped to.
Now, do I think the boon is OP? Nah. It's strong, and a nice example of how boons can be strong without being completely broken like CoH, but 2% is only an edge, it's not a guaranteed escape. Combined with it being in a range that the killer can turn off, it strikes a nice balance between being useful but also limited.
But if you do think it's too strong, you can convey that without literally lying about it, that's my actual point.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2812916#Comment_2812916
She doesn't know what she wants to be....does she want to be a wraith clone.....a Freddy clone......a Spirit clone......or something in-between.....I played a small bit of her and let's say..... Trickster.....is better....
Trickster is probably better now but he was dramatically worse on his PTB, that's my point. He was legitimately awful on his PTB, and Sadako is pretty decent, solidly average.
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@Kurri said:
They just came out with a Boon perk that increases the movement speed of survivors to equal that of base killer speeds. Like how that perk idea even left the board baffles me, is there anyone in office that is designated to go "Yeah no that's a bad idea, and here's the common sense why".
They wouldn't listen to the player base on this stuff before, and are running their game into the ground because of it. I doubt they would start listening now.
...? The boon increases movement speed by 2%, for a total movement speed of 102%. Base killer speed is 115%, or 110% for some.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2812720#Comment_2812720
The issues are her ability to condemn survivors.....it's hard to give them the Pips and too easy for them to remove them. Also when they grab a Tape survivors can still hold their items.....the tape magically gets put into a pocket dimension....she will need alot of work to not be put into the trash tier at the end of the PTB.....am I hopeful....yes a little...but past experiences prove otherwise
Condemnation is where I'd want to look for tweaking her, yes, but even as she is she's not bottom of the barrel. This isn't a Trickster situation, she isn't completely awful. Just average.
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This aged well, eh?
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The counter is to go cleanse it again. It's a perk that hinges very heavily on making the survivors do something they rarely have any reason to actually do anymore, it's the epitome of the risk/reward factor of hexes in general.
You already know where the debuff totem is, too. You've cleansed it once already.
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I never dodge (unless my ping spikes, but I don't really consider that dodging), but when I get the four-man clone army, I always brace a little for accusations of tunnelling in the endgame.
It's happened before, and apparently saying "i literally could not tell which one of you just got unhooked" isn't a good enough defence...
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2812714#Comment_2812714
Yeah, She is definitely as playable as legion.
I'd say she's definitely better than Legion, map traversal and a power that can down put her above them. If I were pressed to put her in a tier list based on super early initial impressions, I'd say she's low to mid C tier? She's alright, could use some tweaks.
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@CyberDragoon656 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2811817#Comment_2811817
Well it doesn't help when you read her perks and power and find out that due to the current game balance she will lag behind so for a licensed character you have to pay for it seems like a slap in the face that seemingly the devs aren't even trying to make killer an enjoyable experience anymore.
I think you're exaggerating. Could she use some tweaks? Sure. Is she unplayable? God no.
She's been out for a day, nobody even knows how to play her yet. Calm down.
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They rewrote Nurse's code almost from scratch to fix her litany of bugs (I don't play her myself but as far as I'm aware they succeeded, she just has a new one), they took steps to address Dead Hard validation giving false feedback, they tightened up security, they implemented some accessibility options in the form of wiggle skill checks and the action toggle feature...
You know. Game health stuff.
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The key to understanding the cosmic truth of the situation is...
...People aren't going to be happy with anything, and they're always going to complain. A similar thing happened recently; over and over people say they want a "game health chapter", but when we got a game health midchapter, people complained that there was "nothing in it".
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What Clown buff are you referring to, did he get a buff while I wasn't looking somewhere?
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2811770#Comment_2811770
Fair. A good change would at least be limiting boons to not go through floors/ceilings.
The timer thing...Hmm...Maybe if it was based on use? IE: If the boon heals 2 full health-states in total; now the Killer can see it? That means it got dang good use.
Or maybe just have CoH deactivate once it heals <x> amount of health states. The only problem with that is that the Survivor can't re-apply it unless the Killer Snuffs.
Not a terrible idea, but if the change is universal then it needs to apply to the other three boons too, and only one of them can really actually be easily defined like that.
I think a static timer is probably for the best- could be limited to time that someone is actually in the radius if we want to put more of a requirement on it.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2811749#Comment_2811749
TBH; I still think they did. But as that's my personal view, and I know it won't change; I won't demand anyone 'change my mind' or anything, because that would go nowhere. By my admission; it won't be changed.
As for alternate ideas; what about the one Ripley posted, or my reply to them? Both valid ideas.
The one Ripley posted is slightly better, but it does still hit both the same notes; more of a punishment for SoloQ who aren't really the ones who can use CoH to its fullest right now anyway, and overkill for the three other boons that aren't nearly as problematic.
If we are working within the restriction of applying a nerf universally, I'd say the best option would be to intermittently show the killer a boon totem's aura after it's been active for a set (low) amount of time. Boons are balanced around the idea of being snuffed consistently by the killer, and CoH's most broken aspect is that the killer doesn't ever have to even know where it is for it to give full value. This way, the other three just hit their intended counterplay more smoothly, and the killer can always at least know where CoH is to go snuff it.
If paired with something to stop boons going through floors (a necessary evil, even the balanced boons benefit from this unfairly), that's much more elegant than actively restricting them.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2811727#Comment_2811727
How is it situationally different? If it's always 25%, then it's always, at maximum, 4 seconds more self-heal and 2 seconds more heal others. Which is what they should have said. Instead, it looks like they were trying to hide what amounted to a non-nerf behind a very impressive sounding 'We reduced it by 25%'.
If your take is the more reasonable "the change wasn't enough and they probably shouldn't have bothered until they could tackle it properly"
I guess it does rather boil down to that, yeah. They did nothing, and then made that nothing sound impressive. I'm sorry, but given the track record of how they operate; it's not beyond reason to think it was deliberate.
Frankly, I should've called out the main objection from the start here, but how is this relevant?
It's an idea that I would hope sparks interest in a change, while also knowing such a change will never happen. Hope springs eternal, and all that.
Great, I'm glad you've backed down to "looks like". The next step is admitting that it looks like that to you because you're angry, not because it's got any basis in reality. I have no idea what in their track record would cause anyone to come to this conclusion.
Anyway, I did have interest sparked in your change- I came in to discuss it because I think it's flawed. I didn't actually want to have to field very weird accusations levied at the developers to do that, believe it or not.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2811708#Comment_2811708
They could have said '4 seconds' and '2 seconds'. I'm sorry but I'm convinced they said '25%' only because it sounded like they were making a bigger change than they were. They had to be aware that 4/2 seconds was NOTHING, and Killer players would not be happy with such a non-nerf. So they went with the more impressive sounding '25%'.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2811709#Comment_2811709
Or just make it so certain boons can't have more than 1 effect in play at a time, but if more than 1 boon totem exists, then CoH will jump to the next active boon when Snuffed by Killers.
So your problem isn't that the change wasn't good enough, but that they should have broken convention and used situationally-accurate time measurements instead of the always-accurate percentages?
It's not always four seconds and two seconds. It is always -25%.
If your take is the more reasonable "the change wasn't enough and they probably shouldn't have bothered until they could tackle it properly", I agree. But surely you see how that's a million miles away from the borderline-delusional "they obviously lied about the change to mislead their players for some reason"?
Frankly, I should've called out the main objection from the start here, but how is this relevant? In your world where they'll never touch CoH for "reasons", they're obviously not going to change boons as a mechanic either, so in order for this conversation to even happen we have to 'pretend' that they'd listen to the hypothetical best change- which is still changing the actually problematic perk, not the fundamentally sound but somewhat flawed mechanic it rests on.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2811687#Comment_2811687
I would have liked a real change.
It seems to be a trend that Killer perks that over perform are nuked from orbit and buried in the deepest pit they can find.
But Survivor perks are very gently touched, because heaven forbid a Survivor perk be killed while people still enjoy it.
No no, be specific. Within the restrictions laid out for that midchapter patch, what should they actually have done, to avoid it being "deceitful" and "lying"?
What would a real change look like, under those circumstances?
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2811674#Comment_2811674
You're hinging an awful lot of justification on the idea that BHVR are refusing to nerf CoH and want to lie to the playerbase.
They made a 'nerf' and touted '25%!' which SOUNDS LIKE allot. But when the math was done, it was a whopping +4 seconds self-heal (+2 seconds healing someone else). Since they must have known these numbers, it makes one wonder why they pushed '25%' so hard.
It was deliberately deceitful. Or they actually did not translate '25%' into an actual number. So which sounds better for the balancing team; Lying, or not doing their jobs?
"Pushed 25% so hard"
You mean... put 25% on a still image they flashed up on screen to show the nerf, something they've done for every equivalent change they've showcased in a QnA...? It was identical to how they showed the initial nerfs boon totems got between their first PTB and the live servers, too. Calling this lying is an extreme stretch, and calling it deceitful is only very marginally better.
Again, it was a quick bandaid fix to make it less problematic without nuking it. What would you have wanted, them to lower the numbers down to 10% and anything short of that is lying? Surely you see this line of thought isn't exactly logical?
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2811651#Comment_2811651
I really don't think we're going to fix CoH with a change that affects all boons. It has to be a fix to CoH itself.
I'd agree, but the devs already showed they will basically ignore all feedback and use misleading numbers to avoid actually changing Survivor's #1 crutch perk.
And since we now can't trust them to actually change it in any meaningful way, given they went out of their way to effectively lie to Killers; It's time to just demand all Boons get shafted. Nothing short of screwing all Boons will actually see change happen.
They already showed they don't actually want to nerf Circle Of OP, AND they showed they're quite happy misleading Killers with deceitful language (The '25%' SOUNDS so much better than the BS '4 seconds' it equates too). So, if we can't get the problem fixed; nuke all Boons. They never should have existed in a properly balanced game, anyways.
You're hinging an awful lot of justification on the idea that BHVR are refusing to nerf CoH and want to lie to the playerbase.
Maybe that is true. My interpretation had been that because all of their actual programming power had gone towards the massive amount of work they put into game health for that midchapter, all perk changes had to be number tweaks or similarly programming-light changes (this part is true, they said as much in the QnA) and so they decided to slap a bandaid on CoH until they could fix it with more actual programming effort. An earnest attempt at stemming the bleeding, so to speak.
Whether that's a good idea or not is a separate matter, but I'm sure you'll agree that it's just as valid an interpretation as yours with perhaps a little more basis in actual proof.
To cap it off, no, don't nuke all boons. They're a fun and interesting concept, and all of them except for CoH are relatively balanced with only minor issues.
...Except Exponential, but that one's just bad lol
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I'm not sure I agree with that, myself. It seems like that'd be the double whammy of being overkill for any boon that isn't CoH, and also falling back into that awful trap of making perks only really usable in a SWF without being viable for SoloQ because you can't coordinate who has the boon up at any given time, it'd be a logistical nightmare and unfairly punishes people playing on their own.
I really don't think we're going to fix CoH with a change that affects all boons. It has to be a fix to CoH itself.
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@NeverGone said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2811624#Comment_2811624
and what is with swamp? no rework? and they call themselves devs XD
Why single out Swamp specifically? There are a few maps that haven't been touched by the reworks yet.
Also, I'd imagine it's because Haddonfield is currently offline for a rework.
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Probably because we already knew there wasn't going to be one?
I would like to see more, but this isn't a surprise. I don't remember when exactly they said they'd start new maps up again but it's not yet.
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Why can't hex totems be reused when they get destroyed and blessed? Because in most cases, that would be overpowered.
Why can boons be reused infinitely? Because they're designed around being limited-area buffs that survivors want to waste time relighting, and for the most part, the core idea works pretty well.
What you're missing is that for every boon in the game except for Circle of Healing, the killer actually also has to be in the radius of the boon for it to work, meaning that they'll know it's active and know roughly where it is, and always have the choice to snuff it. Even if they drop chase to do that (which I wouldn't recommend, snuff when you get a down), that's a guaranteed extra however many (14? I think?) seconds of slowdown they get from a survivor who is not on a generator during that time.
If they down the survivor first, it's a heck of a lot more slowdown on top of the pressure they already gained.
Circle of Healing is broken because the killer doesn't have to be in its radius and therefore it always works out in the survivor's favour if they're smart. I don't know how to fix it, but nuking boons from orbit with those changes to render every boon except CoH worthless is not the right call, in my opinion.
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The cold hard truth is that NOED simply isn't a very good perk, it relies far too heavily on survivor mistakes at a time in the match where there's a pretty heavy incentive for those survivors to play much more safely and simply leave. Putting even more limiters on it is a bad idea, it's already not very good.
Now, a complete rework that has it do something completely different? That I could be more interested in, though I don't know what it'd look like.
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I adore Trapper. He wasn't my first main, but he's my most enduring one and I fall back on him whenever I don't know who else to play at any given moment.
The setup and reward of picking the right spots and then herding survivors into them is one of the most satisfying parts of this game, and the recent suite of buffs that he got in one of the more recent chapters only dialled up how satisfying he is when things go right. Just a shame how many things out of your control can contribute to them not going right...
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Is that what used to be called Mouse Acceleration or whatever? Having that turned off is practically a requirement for playing any kind of game on PC that requires use of the mouse, otherwise it's a nightmare.
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@NathyP11 said:
What time is it usually released UK Time?
Four PM, in my experience. Somewhere around there.
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Logically, antiloop must be killers who fundamentally make looping unsafe. I'd buy Pyramid Head and Nemesis as proper antiloop killers since pallets and windows don't matter to them, but most of the time people use that term to describe just... any power that can be used in chase, seemingly.
I guess I'd buy Nurse and Blight as like, pseudo-antiloop in that they don't have to loop at all, but that seems like a technicality.
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I feel reasonably confident that a killer like this is going to have a teleport mechanic revolving around the wells, and I'd cautiously hazard a guess that there's going to be some kind of status effect being inflicted a la Plague and Nemesis to represent a curse? That seems like a solid bet, but maybe they went in a totally different direction. Those are my called shots.
I'm also sure she's going to be called 'antiloop' despite there being only one single antiloop killer out of the lastsixbut that's not really a PTB prediction, it's a community prediction. -
@Jacoby2041 said:
Survivor perks-
Perk 1: On reveal: "OH MY GOD THATS GONNA BE OP" 1 week later: "lol who even uses that perk it sucks"
Perk 2: Its just an ok perk. But with hidden meme potential 😉
Perk 3: Obligatory Boon perk that's basically going to be a totem decoration because they don't want another CoH
Killer perks-
Perk 1: Not too bad, but it doesn't work with half the killers in the game including this one
Perk 2: Batteries not included. Some assembly required
Perk 3: Obligatory Scourge Hook perk that will do the same thing as another perk but when you hook somebody
I'd argue a more accurate second perk for survivors there is "useful for beginners, but not very useful for anyone else", they've done that more often than meme perks recently.
For killers, 1 and 2 are spot on, but I think it's a bit premature to assume the obligatory scourge hook perk is gonna be the same as another perk but on hook, because they've only done that once.
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Just a hell of a downer to spring on a convo, that's all.
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@CyberDragoon656 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/310483/ringu-perks
And if it's normal dbd fashion its going to suck and it's just going to be another waste of money.
You feeling okay, bud?
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I'm stuck on crappy WiFi right now so I won't be able to actually play, but I fully intend to download it and check everything out at least. I am very curious to see how they adapt this franchise!
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@throwaway79465468797 said:
I'll be excited for the game when it has a big balance patch that addresses a ton of problems
...Last midchapter, then?
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I'm kind of a lightweight but I think I could outdrink Claudette. She strikes me as even more of a lightweight than I am, so I'll take that easy victory.
I wanna say same for Meg, but something about her tells me she'd be good at handling her liquor without having that much experience doing so yet.
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The way I see it, they'd have to do the same amount of work anyway- any perk that has its effects merged onto another would need to be replaced, otherwise you'd end up with some characters having fewer teachables than others. Hell, some characters like Huntress might not have any teachables at all, pretty much all three of hers are rubbish.
So, I'd rather see them improved, and in a few cases just flat out reworked. It's simpler that way.
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If the dev's "basekit BT" tease ends up being a literal case of making BT basekit instead of a case of doing something similar to BT for the same effect, then BT should probably have its effect shortened to compensate.
As it stands, the current duration is fine. Bodyblocking is a problem but that's because of what BT does, not how long it lasts.
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If it happens over multiple days I'd assume there's a central cause, but if it's just one day it's probably a random coincidence.
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When I first started playing, I technically mained Huntress, but once I branched out into survivor I chose Jane.
I still play her! Though I've been doing everyone's Adept achievement to teach myself the survivor fundamentals, so I've not touched her in a little while.
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MMR. It's hard to properly gauge balance for perks and such when the game is currently not matching people accurately, so a solution for that is kind of a necessary first step.
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All of them, either together or separately. Part of DBD's strength is that all the characters would function as a horror movie villain, that's part of their design!
But if I had to pick...
If the goal is to make a movie about Dead By Daylight's lore through the lens of watching one of the killers in action, in the trials or outside it, absolutely Trapper. He's a deceptively interesting character, at least to me, so I'd love to see some more of him.
If the goal is more of a conventional slasher movie, we've got a few good options. Huntress would be good for something like Blair Witch Project,
but better,whereas you've got Doctor for something playing off people trespassing into an abandoned hospital and getting murdered for it. Blight's great for more of a monster movie, since that's kinda what he seems to be based off- those scenes where someone's running around a sharp corner and the monster just careens into the wall before continuing the chase. Plus, y'know, Jekyll and Hyde stories are generally fairly popular, right?Trickster and Yun-Jin would be pretty great for more of a subdued psychological thriller that focuses more on Yun-Jin and her growing suspicion + guilt over actively choosing to prioritise her own career over potentially stopping the murders, I think that pair is pretty uniquely suited to that kind of story.
There are a couple I don't think would work that well. Much as I love The Legion, I think they're more suited to stories where they're not necessarily framed as the sole antagonists- though a story where they drill down on the implication that Susie feels pressured to perform more of the violent acts over generic vandalism could make for an interesting one, you'd just have to kinda make the Legion the protagonists instead of the antagonists, which I feel like isn't quite what people would want.
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...Only one of the launch boons was overpowered, and the one that released after those was actively garbage. I see no reason to assume there'll be another overpowered boon when only one of the three we have right now is OP and that one's been nerfed once + is still on the chopping block for a more nuanced change.
Do you guys just like complaining or something?