jesterkind
jesterkind
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@Bartlaus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2809232#Comment_2809232
Duuuude, did u just call me fat? Never heard about occam's razor but thx to wikipedia Im smarter now :'D
Who says that current MMR is broken and doesnt work as intended? I mean Im dying a lot and Im getting matched with worser and worser teammates and opponents. So it seems to work to me. Is there any official response from the devs? Otherwise Im not sure what ur point is :/
It was in the latest QnA! The matching portion of the MMR system is not working as intended, it's prioritising speed over accuracy in a few situations that lead to people getting unmatched games.
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@Bartlaus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2808802#Comment_2808802
I'm being penalizd in every single match now, believe me. I die a lot because I play too altruistically in solo q ---> low MMR ---> im getting matched with 6 trained guinea pigs. 2 guinea pigs for each mate. One guinea pig at the mousepad, the other guinea pig at the keyboard. That's why my MMR stays so low. Nothing will change until I play completely selfish or in swf a-team.
Again, wouldn't it be the simpler, "occam's razor" answer that you're just suffering from the matching portion being broken right now? We know that part is broken, and because of that there's no reason to suspect it's the win/loss based MMR changes that causes it.
My point about penalising is just a reminder that, when the system is working, losing MMR is not a penalty. It just matches you more efficiently against opponents you can handle and who can handle you. It's currently broken, but when it works it's not a reward or penalty.
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@Themuncho said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2809196#Comment_2809196
I see, so maybe playing at peak times will help in facing players around my skill level?
You'd stand a better chance at peak times, yeah, but it's also worth grappling with the idea that it's just going to be inconsistent for a little bit.
I've found, personally, that I get more consistent games on killers that I should have higher MMR on since I perform better on them, so maybe that helps?
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The MMR system currently has some pretty severe issues regarding the matching portion; it'll prioritise speed over accuracy in a lot of instances, like off peak times, backfilling games where someone left in the lobby, and other such instances.
It's unfortunate, but it's been acknowledged and is ostensibly being fixed.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2808814#Comment_2808814
To your point then, Vigil doesn’t fully counter hindered. It just makes it wear off faster. 🤷🏼♂️
I will agree with that- it's not a complete hard counter the way Small Game was, but it does still warrant a change. Small Game was obviously worse and obviously needed the change a lot more, that much I won't argue.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2808463#Comment_2808463
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2808461#Comment_2808461
Iron Will arguably neuters Spirit’s power, Calm Spirit stops screams against the Doctor, Urban Evasion soft counters Hag traps. This perk counter to killer powe stuff still exists in the game, despite the nerf to Small Game (wrongfully done in my opinion).
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2808484#Comment_2808484
Right, but I was only talking about the comparison of his hindered effect compared to the other killers’ exposed effect.
Iron Will is a good counter to Spirit's power but doesn't even come close to neutering it, Calm Spirit stops screams but doesn't stop Madness from ticking up (to my knowledge), crouching in general is the counter to Hag traps and Urban Evasion just helps. You'll notice that perks in these examples can help with aspects of a killer's power but don't hard target the core functionality.
Spirit still has speed and invisibility, Doctor still has Madness, Hag was... kind of a poor example because the actual counter didn't require the perk.
All Clown has is slowdown. It shouldn't be affected by perks like that, the same way that Small Game obviously shouldn't have made Trapper even weaker by targeting his only power. Though, it's slightly different since the perk had to be changed in that case, whereas here the power is the part that needs the tweak- Vigil is barely going to be affected beyond not helping against Clown specifically, and let's face it, people don't run Vigil because they want to counter the Hindered effect that Clown brings, they bring it because they want a lower Exhaustion timer.
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I think it's a bit of a mistake to assume this is because of the win/loss conditions, considering that the system is currently broken and not matching people accurately.
(You're also not being penalised, your MMR lowers after enough losses but that's completely neutral.)
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Absolutely I am. I want to see how BHVR are gonna adapt what I understand to be their most challenging license so far, in terms of what there is to translate into the game. Even if it doesn't end up being a killer I would find fun or appealing to play, I really want to know what her power and perks are gonna be.
Plus, y'know, PTB patch notes are always fun to read over.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2808531#Comment_2808531
Why doesn't anyone ever talk about it then?
I've never heard it brought up in the monthly "next Killer for DBD is X" threads. If nobody ever talks about it, how am I supposed to be clued in that it's actually extremely popular?
It didn't even chart in the poll done on Twitter about most wanted licenses.
https://twitter.com/LeaksDbd/status/1482615918815494144/photo/1
I'm not saying it isn't popular. I'm just saying that nobody has ever given me any indication that it is.
Have you ever seen a reference to a creepy girl with long black hair crawling out of a TV? The Ring.
Have you ever heard a joke about needing to show someone else a thing within seven days? The Ring.
Not many people are aware of it firsthand, so to speak, but it has a place in pop culture just as entrenched as The Texas Chainsaw Massacre or Nightmare On Elm Street; parts of it have been bandied around a ton, and among horror circles it's well known. I don't know it either by name, but as soon as someone mentioned one of those two things when explaining it, I knew what it was.
I hadn't personally heard of a bunch of the licenses in this game, but they're still well known. I'm not sure why you're fighting this concept so hard?
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I'm at least going to install and log in so I can check everything out, even if I don't end up playing. I'm curious to see what's what!
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I am also learning for the first time that Vigil apparently reduces the time you're Hindered by Clown's power, oh my god. As if he doesn't suffer enough, down at the bottom of the barrel...
I don't think it would be an insane buff to make the slow duration unchangeable. People don't often run Vigil and Clown's already a weak killer, this would just remain consistent with the change to Small Game; a killer power shouldn't be uniquely targeted by a perk like that.
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Monstrous Shrine: Basement hooks now count as Scourge hooks. Scourge hooks cannot be sabotaged and respawn 45 seconds after a sacrifice is completed on them. All former effects discarded.
Territorial Imperative... I'm not sure that it should be a basement perk, but if it does have to remain one, then it shouldn't have a cooldown or timer. If someone's in the basement while you're at the right distance, you get to see them for the entire time they're in there until they leave, period.
It still wouldn't be useful, but it'd be consistent enough you could try to make it work in a gimmick build. Maybe.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807592#Comment_2807592
With all due respect, actually, I said :
"Because AFTER we fix these problems, then the game will be ready for a real Ranking system with competitive play and ranked games, with division placements."
Ranked games. Division placements....
Foster a more competitive scene, and create a new grind to keep people playing, which lowers queue times, and garners more attention to the game.
Alright, I'll cop to forgetting that- but it would still divert a lot of resources away from future issues and hamstring how much attention can be paid to maintenance for outdated designs and balance.
I do want to contest that it'd lower queue times, though. Surely it would run the risk of making queue times worse, because the playerbase would be split between two separate game modes?
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807582#Comment_2807582
Simply because they failed in the past, does not mean it cannot be done in the future.
It can be. In fact, a lot of the work has already been done. The game already tracks all of the major stats - such as time being chased, etc..
all you need to do is have a discussion on it, and assign numerical values to each activity, and the length of the activity, etc... I mean, they already kind of do this with the emblem system, but it's not where it needs to be.
It doesn't really change the overall point, though.
Let's grant that an emblem-based competitive mode could still work. It still doesn't really make any case for why you'd want that. The only concrete thing you've given me for that is the idea that an e-sports team would bring in more players, but we've also gone over why optimal play kills tournaments already if they don't put a ton of arbitrary rules on those games and it still doesn't change the fact that designing the kind of system you're talking about would take an immense amount of time and resources.
And at the end of all that time... the core game would still have every single flaw it currently has, and nothing's actually been fixed. It's just not a good idea, you'd have to change so much of how DBD works just to get it limping across the finish line- and the issues with the core game wouldn't be addressed, which would only make it weaker.
Bottom line is: Changing the emblem system to incentivise altruistic, active play is a great idea. A competitive mode has no intrinsic merit and would be an absolute bottomless pit of dev time and resources, on top of actively undoing at least part of that incentive to play actively and altruistically.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807571#Comment_2807571
Ranked divisions and e-sports can have two separate win parameters.
Ranked players grinding ranked, can have their personal performance judged to climb or descend ranks.
But an e-sports situation, we would create separate parameters on what is or is not a win, because it would be a 4 man SWF correct? So in the case of e-sports and organized competition, a win would be defined by K/E. Thus problem solved.
That's a very dicey proposition. Remember that we've had a "personal performance" based rank system before and it was utterly awful, it was completely unfit for purpose and the idea of fixing it was an extremely tall order.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but I am saying that the overwhelming likelihood is that we'd just have the rank based matchmaking system back, flaws and... not even "flaws and all", because it was all flaws.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807556#Comment_2807556
Remember, BHVR decides what is or is not a win condition. Decisions can be made to get where we need to go.
But again, if we define a win based on kills/escapes in the current meta of DBD... then a 3 escape, 1 death survivor team is a win, yes?
so.. affecting how many of your teammates escape IS a win. Is it not? If your heroic highlight reel play caused 3 survivors to escape instead of only 2.... is that not a competitive play that affected the win condition for your team? And would entirely be reasonable to do in a competitive/ranked environment??
The win condition has been the same throughout the entirety of the game's existence. The win condition for the survivor is to escape, the win condition for the killer is either a 3K or a 4K, that's the only ambiguity.
As for your point about the highlight reel play: "If". If it doesn't, you messed up and everyone's chance at winning just plummeted due to how much pressure the killer got.
Compare that to playing it safe and optimal, which has a much lower chance of messing up that badly. Even if you go down, you're away from your teammates, who are all on generators advancing their objective.
If your only goal is to win because you're in a competitive mode, which of those two tactics are you going to pick?
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My take is that DBD is actually pretty balanced, if both sides are bringing their strongest stuff.
...The snag in that is that the Killer bringing their strongest stuff locks you into one of like, four killers, on top of the strongest perks. Survivors get to bring at least some of their strongest stuff all the time, and while that's a pretty decent (if flawed for non-strength reasons) matchup for, say, a Nurse playing well or a Blight with an adequate build, it's massive overkill for a Clown running average perks.
Since there's a lot of reasons to want to play different killers it leads people to saying that DBD is "survivor sided", when the real issue is that there's not enough consistent power throughout the killer roster. After all, the difference between Clown and Nurse is immense.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807527#Comment_2807527
Of course it affected the win condition. Although we should define what a win is. But let's use the current standard of kills/escapes.
In the scenario earlier, as the game stands today, where I was injured and on death hook... nobody is taking that protection hit for me (barring Tome challenges or WGLF farming). I am going to be downed and dead. That is almost a certainty. So that's a +1K for killer.
However, with these suggestions, jesterkind swooped in and took the protection hit for me. This type of gameplay is being designed and encouraged by BHVR. So that +1K for Killer, is now 0K for killer. Jesterkind is now being chased, and he's never been hooked this match so he can take the hook.
This affected the Kills/Escapes for the match. This affects the win conditions.
I agree that your changes would help for regular gameplay, since people like being rewarded and people generally are more interested in having fun than playing optimally. So, with your changes, yes! A player will swoop in to take a protection hit so that their teammate can hopefully escape and the game will reward them for that with a cool title at the endgame, more BP, maybe some other incentives we can brainstorm.
But none of those rewards are there for a competitive mode. The goal there isn't to have fun, or to maximise BP, or play to a points system. The goal there is to win. Your emblem score doesn't matter in an e-sports match, after all, the only thing that matters is whether you win or not. With an actual win-based incentive system, the kind that people wrongly assume MMR currently is, there's no reason to play it flashy- if you go for a cocky play and fail, you're actually punished for it by losing rank in the ladder.
So you'll play it optimally. Trust me, I've been in ranked ladder systems, it is not the place that flashy and interesting things happen- you play the meta, and you play optimally, or you get flamed by your team.
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I don't think those are really the biggest problems with his traps. I would like to see more addons that punish disarming his traps a la Killer Instinct, but I don't think it's necessary as a base kit thing.
What's hurting him right now is twofold;
1: He's a setup killer that still can't set up immediately. Getting an extra trap absolutely helped, everything that hit in that patch helped tremendously, but now the problem is that sometimes traps spawn on the complete opposite side of the map where you never want to go to. My proposal is that they should spawn on the same side of the map as you, trending towards the centre. That way, you can set up to your heart's content without wasting a tremendous amount of time.
2: Visual design for newer and updated maps, while objectively better for the game as a whole, are hurting him. I propose that he have his Tar Bottle reworked to provide map-specific camouflage, on top of maybe changing the base visuals of his traps a little to be more neutral. The Tar Bottle hurts more than it helps in enough scenarios that it warrants changing, it's no longer objectively one of his best addons, and Trapper deserves a little future-proofing so the game can continue going in the right direction without leaving him behind.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807505#Comment_2807505
And the changes I suggested would make DBD more exciting. It would banish the toxic selfish gameplay of "hiding and wait for team to die".
It would promote heroic, highlight reel plays.
A teammate is injured, on death hook, and running from the killer.. oh no it looks like he is going to go down here..... but wait, his teammate runs to him, swoops in and takes the protection hit!!! WOW!! WHAT A PLAY!! The injured player is getting away!! What a fantastic play by jesterkind!!! The killer is chasing him now! And he hasn't been hooked yet, so he can sacrifice a hook to save his fellow survivor, wow!!
All game design choices would be based around turning DBD into this type of team oriented gameplay. etc.
Except none of the changes you've suggested actually affected the win condition. It's a good idea to promote active, altruistic, heroic plays for everyday matches because that's more fun and engaging, but if players are playing to win, which is what a competitive mode and e-sports tournaments would be, they're going to ignore all of that and play efficiently.
Split up on gens, always bring the strongest tools for speeding them up, run away from the killer immediately to delay getting into chase, predrop pallets and continue holding W... those are the most efficient ways to play the game and they're boring. Obviously it's a good idea to incentivise doing other things regularly, but in a competitive setting the only incentive is to win. You'd have to change huge swaths of the game to make it any different, far beyond the scope of anything you've mentioned so far.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807490#Comment_2807490
The benefits of a game having e-sport tournaments is self-evident. These events alone would bring in viewers and players.
Why? Don't you want DBD to be a better game? to have more money to fund more staff and take DBD to levels never seen before?
And a ranked system with division placements would replace the bloodpoint grinding method. What I mean by this, is, once you already have your chosen Survivor with every perk, and even P3. Now what? What is the point of keeping players to grind more DBD? Aside from the "Gotta catch em all" mindset and wanting to turn every Survivor into P3.... which let's face it, the grind is horrific and I don't see myself doing that. I have my one or two survivors who are P3 and have every Survivor Perk, and that's it.
At that point, people will only play when they feel like a game or two or three. But, if you introduce a ranking system with division placements, now BHVR will have a lot more players play a lot more DBD because they are trying to grind into a higher division.
E-sports events only bring in viewers and players if they're popular, and they tend to get popular if they're exciting to watch. DBD played optimally isn't- that's why tournaments have to put so many custom rules in place, to try and force players to actually interact in a manner that's fun to watch. DBD would have to change dramatically on a fundamental level before it'd be ready for that on its own.
Of course I want DBD to be a better game. A ranked mode doesn't inherently equal "better", that's my point. Instead of pouring time and effort and resources into that, they could actually improve the game in a myriad of ways.
That... doesn't replace the bloodpoint grinding method, it just caps the bloodpoint grinding method. You still have to go through the horrific grind in order to get there in the first place, and that only applies to survivors; killers actually do have to grind on every single killer they want to actually play.
As for people wanting to grind into a higher division... grades. That's what grades are for. If you want to argue that getting a higher grade should be more impactful, I totally agree, but that's a million miles away from a ranked mode.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807480#Comment_2807480
Rome wasn't built in a day. I cannot allow negative people like you to dampen my positive, forward thinking and visions.
Dead by Daylight can be a competitive game where players can have Ranked games and division placements, e-sports, etc.
This alone would replace the horrific bloodpoint grinding method that they have in place right now.
The game's playerbase would grow tremendously, and thus more skin sales and DLC sales, and BHVR would have more and more resources to pour into the game.
Right, but- why.
What would be achieved by having DBD be a competitive, e-sport game? What is the benefit of that kind of approach towards the game?
You're skipping a step by just saying it can be, you haven't really laid any foundation for why it should be.
The game's playerbase wouldn't inherently grow at all just because it has a competitive mode, and certainly not tremendously. I also don't see the connection between a competitive mode and the bloodpoint grind, those two things would be completely separate...?
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807474#Comment_2807474
If you don't know the answer to that....
are you new to online gaming?
Not at all, and that's exactly why I know trying to make your game as e-sports friendly as possible isn't always the right call.
There's no reason to assume that DBD would be ready for a competitive mode even after the changes you promoted, there are still a lot of balance issues that make DBD played competitively very, very boring. At its core, the game just isn't designed for it.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807439#Comment_2807439
Because AFTER we fix these problems, then the game will be ready for a real Ranking system with competitive play and ranked games, with division placements.
...Why on earth would we want that?
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807422#Comment_2807422
And once again instead of asking WHY it is an attractive option they instead look for ways to "fix" the issue that cause even more problems.
Where are you getting that from? They have said literally nothing about how they're approaching this, from the angle of what questions they're asking OR what kind of approach they're going to take to fix it.
I'm sure you're implying that killers only facecamp because of the balance of the game, but that's obviously not true. Some killers, maybe, but certainly not all.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807414#Comment_2807414
Step 1 - Drop the edgy nonsense about "go it alone" and declare that Survivors are a TEAM that depend on each other to survive the horrific killing ground, and all game design choices will take this into account.
Step 2 - Due to this change, we are now able to develop an accurate MMR ranking system. Because we now have direction in how players SHOULD be playing, we can now accurately rank their performances. Players can now be given scores and cool match titles for their team oriented gameplay that leads to escapes. Looping aka total time being chased, unhooks, heals, curses cleansed, protection hits, etc.
Step 3 - Change the results screen to reflect these changes. Add Survivor titles to match a player's performance in that match. For example, someone who was never chased by the killer, but helped repair 4 generators and destroyed a cursed totem, is given the match title "Tactical Genius"...... someone who looped the killer for 3 generators combined total time, and did 2 unhooks and helped heal 3 survivor states, but DIES is given the match title "Heroic Martyr"...... someone who crouched around and was too scared to do gens, barely repaired 1 generator, did no totem cleanses, did 0 unhooks, and was chased once would be given title "Scaredy Cat".. these titles would be just for the ONE match result ending screen...
Step 4 - This will promote healthy gameplay.
Step 5 - This will promote positive attitudes with the match results.
Step 6 - The community will see a drastic change in bitterness.
Step 7 - Game design choices would have much more clarity.
Right, so, I agree that the things you're trying to promote in the playerbase would be a healthy change for the game, but why are you highlighting the MMR system for that? Wouldn't it be a better idea to change the Emblem system to reflect the things you want to achieve here?
The MMR system isn't a progression system, it's not going to show the players anything regardless of how well they did. What you're looking at there is the emblem/grade system, and your proposed changes would be a fantastic change to that system! I'd love to see players incentivised to play more altruistically, it's more engaging for everyone involved, even the killer.
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@BubbaDredge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807406#Comment_2807406
The devs are fine with facecamping, they've said it over and over. Giving survivors ways to deal with it isn't the same as "we don't like it".
I believe the last thing they said about it was something to the effect of "we don't like that it's such an attractive option for a lot of players".
Also, that's kind of splitting hairs? The point of them wanting to make it a weaker tactic by giving survivors more ways to deal with it is functionally identical to them not liking it at all for the purposes of my argument.
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Most people who say they would likely wouldn't, though.
We got a mostly technical midchapter, and almost all the responses I saw were people saying that it was disappointing because nothing was in it, or hyper-focusing on the handful of mediocre balance changes it had as well.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807406#Comment_2807406
Your post does not address all the various ways a good looper will die.
This game has no direction and it needs to embrace the fact that it is a TEAM game. Drop the edgy crap about "go it alone"
This one thing would fix a lot of problems and make the results of matches much more enjoyable, and it would promote HEALTHY gameplay
No, but my first one does. You're not gonna win every game, sometimes you die. If you are a good looper, then you'll be winning more games than you don't- and excepting for actual flaws that have nothing to do with the MMR system like facecamping, if you're losing more games than you're winning how on earth could you be considered a "good" player?
I don't necessarily disagree with the idea that survivors should be encouraged to act as a team more, though I do think it's only tangentially related to this topic. Thankfully, the devs seem to agree, given their comments on SoloQ improvements.
Though, how does the concept of encouraging team play affect the MMR...? Those two things are pretty separated as far as I can see.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807394#Comment_2807394
but since it doesnt track chases does it matter? you could win 3 chases as per the emblem system, lose 1, then get facecamped because the killer overcommited and now is desperate for a kill and suddenly you died and you werent at all skillful. add in a healthy dose of solo queue and the more consistent you make your ability to prolonge and extend chases, the less likely you are to actually survive.
The devs don't like facecamping and consider it an issue to address. Similarly, they want to make solo queue more bearable and shrink the difference in escape rates.
The system obviously can't be built around known and acknowledged flaws in the game, because then it would have to be rebuilt once those flaws are fixed. Everything the devs have said about the MMR system is more or less correct, people just don't like hearing it.
...Though I found the hockey analogy a little bit clumsy. Still, what he was getting at with it was sound.
@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807394#Comment_2807394
And get hooked eventually and die more often than not because the goal scoring hockey players leave them to rot on the hook or escape.
Lol at being a good looper who gives your team time to do the final gen. You eventually get hooked, they do final gen, and surprise, killer has NOED. Now the goal scoring hockey stars just leave match and you die.
This happens so often it's a meme.
See above.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807388#Comment_2807388
Good loopers can replicate their good looping.
More common sense news at 11.
Great. Then they'll win more chases than they don't, right?
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Obligatory reminder that the MMR system tracks averages, not individual games.
If you looped the killer for the whole game, regardless of if you die or not, the system doesn't care. It cares if you can replicate that consistently, because it's your consistent skill output that matters.
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@NemeanXIII said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807178#Comment_2807178
I wouldn't mind a modern horror but it has to be a good one.Slenderman would be a great choice over Springtrap.
Is it really just that you don't like FNaF, is that it?
I guess I can respect that, but I was hoping there was something more there. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, no shade.
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@NemeanXIII said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807157#Comment_2807157
Because it's silly, it's cartoonish.His lore isn't tragic ,it's quite awful and doesn't make sense.
Other people have given more a better reasons most talk about the political standpoint.
This is also more for about Fnaf taking the spot of a really good license that could get missed.There not going to keep adding licenses they've already stated that and the great classic's should be first pick.
Surely you could argue that a lot of lore is silly if you look at it with a bad-faith lens?
A guy wearing a Halloween mask and holding a knife doesn't sound particularly scary. A guy with pins sticking out of his face sounds downright comical. A lady wearing a pig's head like a mask just sounds impractical.
I'd certainly agree there are some licenses that should happen before FNaF, especially if there really is a limited number of slots, but people don't often argue that point. They argue that FNaF wouldn't fit period, and that's just not true.
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@NemeanXIII said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807145#Comment_2807145
Face it Fnaf is not a good pick for DBD.They can make a power for the Giant Mario bullet but does he belong in the game ? No no he does not.
I'm a horror veteran and that isn't a character that needs to be in the game, sorry it's jmo.
But... why?
It hits all of the requirements. It's horror, it's iconic, it's influential, it doesn't break the rules by being exclusively characters that are minors or hard sci fi in genre, and the visuals of the game don't clash with DBD's aesthetics. What makes it not a good pick?
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@NemeanXIII said:
1. Silent Hill ,Re classic licenses not really a hard choice.Fnaf is probably iconic to memes
2.That would be a cool as map.
7.Nah then it wouldn't feel like the Predator only wraith with electronic cloak then it rains on some maps so it really make sense.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807117#Comment_2807117
All of Pyramid Head and Nemesis power's make sense.The only powers they gave Pyramid Head was POTD and Rights of Judgement.They added cages in a mechanically way that makes sense we don't know how he puts people in cages but he does,but lorewise it says Pyramid Head gets all of his power from Silent Hill so he came in with his own abilities.
Yes, exactly. They pulled from his existing lore to give him a power that's more mechanically interesting than doing literally what he does in his games.
They would presumably do the same for Springtrap. They'd adapt him. There's no way for them to force you to play FNaF whenever someone picks Springtrap, after all, so the gameplay of that franchise is irrelevant.
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@NemeanXIII said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807108#Comment_2807108
It's a better alternate to Fnaf
I don't know somebody says Fnaf has something to do with furries and stuff and if you like animal people it's a better pick and deeper.
There are plenty of better alternatives to FNaF, that's not my point. My point is that FNaF would fit within DBD and therefore is a legitimate pick for a license.
For the record, I don't like FNaF either, but it's obviously something that could make it into DBD. It's iconic, it's influential, it doesn't break any of BHVR's rules for licenses that I know of, and a lot of people would really like it. Besides, I've never bought the arguments that FNaF's gameplay is boring and so therefore it'd be a bad license for DBD either, because... you wouldn't be playing FNaF? You'd be playing DBD? BHVR would give Springtrap or whoever new mechanics, like Pyramid Head and Nemesis.
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@NemeanXIII said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807102#Comment_2807102
GO AND WATCH DONNIE DARKO. Frank is the Fnaf slayer
...What does that have to do with anything...?
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Some of these I agree with, I think any killer that's basically just "some guy" would need a lot of work to make interesting. Mr Shining may be intimidating with his axe, but in DBD he'd be bottom of the barrel comparatively.
Nothing wrong with FNaF, though. Like it or not, it's an iconic and influential juggernaut of video game horror, by all definitions it absolutely would fit within DBD.
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These aren't bad changes by a wide margin, but I'm not sure they really address what makes Twins feel so clunky right now. In addition to these, I'd also suggest that during Victor's post-down cooldown, you can swap to Charlotte at any time.
They want to avoid Victor chain-downing people, and I'm fully on board for that as a thing to avoid so survivors have breathing room and the killer has counterplay, but if you have to commit to the ludicrously long cooldown after downing someone with Victor, it paradoxically incentivises you to try and keep downing people with him since you've already committed all that time into him. If you could swap to Charlotte, you have more incentive to not go on a rampage with the little man.
(Also, the Twins are really good, BHVR weren't wrong when they declared them monsters at high MMR. If you know what you're doing with them, and that is a HUGE "if", they're genuinely an A-tier killer.)
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@BoriskyTheFox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2807068#Comment_2807068
Judging by their latest killer designs, She is just going to be another anti loop killer that has no counterplay.
...There's been one anti-loop killer in the past year, two if you're extremely generous with that term and count Artist. All of them have counterplay, too.
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I don't know that much about this killer's source material, but from what I do know I'd hazard a guess that there'll be a teleport mechanic and some kind of unique status effect that she inflicts on survivors. Maybe with some kind of timing mechanic a la Pig's RBTs?
I'm honestly really excited to see what it is, I'm super curious.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2806860#Comment_2806860
Why is he acting like whiny survivor main when he is literally on leaderboard in both killers an survivors? I don't ######### get it.
Commitment to the bit, my friend.
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Hi. I'd like to talk to you about Homestuck.
Beyond that, I'm honestly not sure. I'm somewhat stuck on wanting to give legendary skins to characters who actually share a theme or at least weaponry with them; give Hillbilly a Kanaya skin and it doesn't matter as much that those two characters have nothing in common personality-wise because the point of commonality is that they both use chainsaws.
I think any franchise with underage protagonists is most likely to be relegated to either killer-only paragraphs or legendary skins, since BHVR don't like minors in their game and have historically only been comfortable aging up by a year or so.
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It's definitely a good idea, and would go a long way towards shrinking the gap between SoloQ and SWF. You obviously can't implement anything into the game that would correct for bad decisions being made (at least not without massively unbalancing everything), but giving solo players more information is absolutely the aim of the game.
If you know a teammate doesn't have Unbreakable, for instance, you'll be more inclined to rush off and go pick them up when they're slugged. If you know Camaraderie is in play, you'll be inclined to try and make use of it. It'll make the trials more dynamic and interesting for everyone because fewer people will be playing it super safe out of uncertainty.
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I'd honestly rather see them improved.
It should be possible to implement a proper Fog mechanic without reverting it to how utterly awful the game used to look with how dark and murky it was, and if they can manage something fun and engaging where it maybe makes stealth easier or hides things on the ground I'd be all for it, I'd even use my fog offerings.
Especially on Trapper. Imagine thick ankle-high fog that swirls around and helps to hide your bear traps if survivors aren't particularly perceptive, or maybe you have to use a flashlight to dispel it temporarily, maybe a map to see things through it...
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2805696#Comment_2805696
When people object valid points my position evolve. I still didn't see any one else doing the same though.
It's not just about evolving your position, it's about engaging with other people's positions in good faith and responding to them seriously. Saying someone is biased, that it's clear they don't play one side, that they want to make the game worse, and anything similar isn't good debate form and that's on you to fix, not your conversational partner.
(Though, if someone's position is clearly ridiculous you can also just not engage.)
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It's not a great look to bemoan how debates often feel pointless, and then near-immediately start accusing the first person who disagrees with you of being biased and wanting to make the game miserable for one side.
It kinda makes it look like you just want people to agree with you without any pushback and that if they don't the "debate" was pointless, y'know?
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
@jesterkind said:
This thread was the place I saw this happened to me as well lmaoGod this is confusing what could possibly go wrong
AAAAAAAAAAAA NO THE QUOTES LOOK WEIRD
Oh NO AHHHH
I'm assuming this is broken or something, this looks odd right now -
This thread was the place I saw this happened to me as well lmao