jesterkind
jesterkind
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2805288#Comment_2805288
Most of us paid for base game, which includes nurse.
Not me though.
It includes Nurse, and Trapper, Hillbilly, Wraith, and Huntress. Hag and Doctor if you're console.
You aren't being robbed of what you paid for by Nurse being killswitched any more than you're being robbed of what you paid for when they killswitch Circle of Healing for crashing the game, or certain map offerings because of bugs. This is a normal thing that happens in paid games, not some failure, imposition, or theft.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2805192#Comment_2805192
Why not. I mean they screwed up programing something I paid for so I can't use what I paid for while they fix it and it's not like they lose money giving out BP no one is asking for shards or cells
She's been disabled for a fix. This happens in other games all the time and nobody's clamouring for compensation there, it's just a normal thing that happens.
Also, you didn't pay for Nurse. She's a base game killer.
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...Why would they give out compensation for killswitching something?
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I'd hope so, especially if they can touch up some of the killers that are really starting to show their age- I'd adore a model update for Myers, especially.
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HEUUGGHHH HEUUGHHHH
Clown's laugh just hits different man, it activates some neurons or something
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@buzzaman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2805070#Comment_2805070
I completely understand where you are coming from i terms of the Ruin change. My problem with Ruin is this: Its either completely useless or an absolute game changer, and that serverly depends on what killer youre playing. In general, high tier killers like Nurse and Blight will benefit the most. My change attempts to find a middle ground where Ruin isnt as oppressive to go against if survivors dont find it, while making it a viable perk for any killer to deal with early game pressure. It wont ever be a fun perk to go against, but thats the nature of slowdown perks in general.
Im sure DH would be annoying still, but it would be much harder to use. You couldnt just use it to cover up any mistake since the distance is severly shortened, you would have to use it smartly. Its surely one of the most difficult perks to rework or change. Your idea sounds interesting, but im not sure if it wouldnt just render the perk useless since you always dh to reach a pallet or window.
Is it a problem to have perks that are more useful on some killers than others, though? Take Save The Best For Last; useless on, say, Huntress, but very good on Demogorgon or Trapper.
While the upper level of how powerful Ruin can be may be a problem, that's more to do with the strength of the killers that use it most effectively. I'd also argue it genuinely isn't useless on less mobile killers, it's just not as powerful- which is a good thing, it encourages perk variety depending on what killer you want to play. If you wanna play Trapper, you might wanna pick different generator defence perks since Ruin is less useful.
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Shouldn't the scaling go in the opposite direction?
Regarding the actual effect, though, I think it could be viable- though I think more things should deactivate it, especially since this perk could be monstrous in the endgame where no generators are left to be repaired and they're obviously not in a chase if they're going for a gate or the hatch.
Maybe just a caveat that it deactivates after the last generator is completed?
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Ooh, these ones are interesting... Let's take 'em one by one, I love these little list deals!
Ruin: This one is unfortunately not a great idea. As someone else pointed out, just making actions take longer isn't particularly fun design, and while it is defensible when it's a hex, Ruin right now is actually pretty well balanced since it rewards killers for pressuring survivors off generators.
DMS: Fully agree, I was genuinely a little surprised to learn that this wasn't how it worked already. It still works out well for the killer since it encourages survivors to group up instead of splitting pressure across multiple generators at once, so I'd be totally on board with this change.
Dead Hard: While I agree with you on what the problem with DH is, I don't know that this would fix it, it'd still be obnoxious and annoying. I'd propose making it so that, after using DH, you can't interact with pallets or vault spots in any way for a few seconds, so using it for distance is dramatically less viable.
Iron Will: Agree, but with the caveat that No Mither should have its reduction increased to 100%, so that it's a more viable perk with a hefty downside. If you want total stealth, you should have to give something up for it, right?
Prove Thyself: I'm... not convinced this perk is actually a core problem when it comes to generator speeds, I think other perks might be better to look at. I genuinely don't know about this one.
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And to tackle someone else briefly...
@BoriskyTheFox said:
I would like to see killer meta nerfs. Evryone knows how unfun it is to go against perks that makes doing gens impossible.
The question is, what killer perks are there that can be nerfed? In order to bring in some hefty nerfs to killer perks, they'd have to be universally problematic, or at least problematic on a majority of killers instead of just two or three. I'd argue no killer perks actually fit that criteria, the unbalanced parts of the killer meta come from the powers and addons that people bring more than anything else- and those should be looked at, I'm not implying otherwise.
The killer meta perk-wise is also a majority slowdown, and those are perks that are necessary due to the current state of the game; you can't nerf those without also nerfing generator speed increases, the same way you couldn't nerf Borrowed Time or Decisive Strike without also giving survivors some way of avoiding tunnelling in the base game. Some perks cover flaws in the game design, and nerfing those is a bad idea until those flaws are addressed.
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We got a midchapter that was primarily focused on health, and everyone immediately kicked off that there was "nothing in it" and that it was "very disappointing", so I don't think the community would respond well to a health chapter in the least.
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2804271#Comment_2804271
No way out doesn't have a sgnificant effect if survivors haven't been hooked. Starstruck has a 30 seconds duration on survivors. Devour hope needs stack by hooking numerous times, and getting far from the unhook. Killers needs to be quite active to get value from them. That's not the same with noed in a good rng.
Neither does NOED. Getting one guy on a hook if nobody's been hooked means everyone is totally healthy and not at all vulnerable, making cleansing and saving far, far easier. If you want value from NOED, you ideally want at least one person dead already, otherwise the one person you down is going to have three other people to rescue them.
They're all still perks that, if you're skilled, you can use to turn around a losing match. Same as NOED- except all the perks listed are stronger and more consistent than NOED.
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2804243#Comment_2804243
No way Out ask the killer to hook all survivors once. And killer can't be passive about it. Wrong!
If you're gonna do the whole "Wrong!" thing, it might be worth making sure you're actually correct.
No Way Out is improved by the killer hooking all survivors once. With zero hooks, No Way Out still activates and still allows the killer more of a chance to turn the endgame around. That also doesn't address the other two examples I gave, of perks that allowed the killer to come back in the endgame.
It's also worth mentioning that you didn't ask for a perk that had no activation requirements (even if NWO still qualifies), you asked for a perk that let the killer turn things around in the endgame after having a very poor match.
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2804220#Comment_2804220
Tell me one other perk that allows a killer to snowball as much after getting beating to a pulp. There is none. That's why the perk is a problem.
No Way Out.
Also, depending on how loose we are with strict definition, tons of perks. Starstruck has actually carried me to extra kills I likely wouldn't have gotten without it because survivors tend to get cocky when they think they've already won, and I've also personally had late game Devour Hope carries after only getting a few hooks. Both of those happened after the last generator was completed, so it's definitely comparable.
There's also the fact that the fifth generator being completed doesn't actually translate to "getting beaten to a pulp". Sure, if that point is reached when you've only got a few hooks, that's a poor game for you, but it's still not over and you can still turn it around with the help of perks, and your power.
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2804175#Comment_2804175
When a killer get two hooks all throughout the game he doesn't deserve a come back because of one perk. A good killer can snowball with any perks... take noed away they won't. That's the problem. Take NOED away from the equation, they would never make a come back. So NOED is the problem within this scenarios.
Cleasing a totem or fighting a timer is different. Cause one is rng related. Not the other. And the gameplay would be more interactive since the killer would have to choose between taking risks or camping till the end. He won't be passive and getting as much value from it.
Comebacks happen in the endgame all the time, NOED or not. As for a killer not deserving a comeback because of a perk, that seems a little excessive- if it takes skill to actually perform that comeback (which it does), why exactly is that unfair? You still need the skill to actually use NOED (or whatever other endgame perk you have, No Way Out is the same way) and a trash killer still doesn't benefit in the way you're suggesting, so what's the problem?
The game isn't over just because the last generator is done, it doesn't matter how many hooks the killer has. If they have the skill to make use of what they have available, NOED or not, that comeback is earned.
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2804145#Comment_2804145
Putting it on a timer has more counterplay from survivors. Cause choices to make are more clear then. Like, if the timer exceeds the hook state you just leave. Otherwise you wait it out. With a totem its different. Very different. It all comes down to luck.
I'd be fine with noed being permanent if the killer has hooked all survivor once... because trash killers wouldn't benefit from it in the first place, what is my only issue with the perk from a survivor perspective.
I'd argue choosing whether to wait out the timer or not is exactly the same amount of counterplay as choosing to cleanse a totem or not, with the sole difference that cleansing a totem is more interactive than waiting in a bush.
Your second point is the one I have bigger problems with, though- NOED may feel as though trash killers get too much value, but one of my main points throughout this thread is that I genuinely don't see how that could be true. If a killer is trash, they'll get one down, the perk will be revealed, and then their more skilled opponents will go cleanse it or they'll just leave. The only way a trash - or even just average - killer gets all that much value is if survivors play into it, not because the perk itself inherently gifts it to them.
What I think it boils down to is that survivors see a killer that's having a poor match, assume they're trash, and then get mad that they successfully leveraged NOED into a few kills because they don't think a skilled player could possibly have a bad match- or more realistically, because they don't realise how much they or their teammates played into NOED and gave it value. It all comes down to perception, and while there's merit to saying a perk that feels bad warrants changing, it's important to understand that it just feels bad so you don't suggest things that'll make the problem far worse. Changing NOED to give the same or better value so that "trash killers can't benefit" will make the perk a far bigger problem, because currently, trash killers only benefit if the survivors play poorly- and a skilled killer will get much more out of a less counterable version of the perk.
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2804123#Comment_2804123
In your opinion. I could also say that a timer limits the snowball potential that is problematic, but make it consistent enough so that other problematic aspect gets addressed. I could also say that endgame builds needs a good noed or they'll be worthless, and that asking for the four survivors to be hooked once before the fifth gen pops is enough restriction to reward the killer with good permanent pressure. NOED has its own core, no need to change it... just create another perk if you have a good idea for endgame.
Sure, in my opinion, but we're just discussing opinions here anyway.
If the timer came with the removal of its hex status, it would end up in the same scenario- you already need to have quite a few hooks going (ideally someone dead) before NOED's going to do all that much for you, so it'll be in the exact same spot. But... that's bad? It would be just as annoying to survivors because nothing about it has actually changed beyond it having less counterplay, and it's still not going to be a particularly great perk because the benefits being on a timer means survivors will be more inclined to be immersed until they're no longer Exposed.
If it's not on a timer, and it's just permanent... that makes things far worse? Now it's a strong effect with no counterplay at all, I don't see how that fixes anything.
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2804116#Comment_2804116
But by denying that aspect... you're also preventing buffing the perk accordingly in the end.
...No? I think the perk is too weak/inconsistent and think it should have a completely different effect, because making this effect stronger risks actually making it OP and making the effect weaker by forcing a token system or timer onto it is obviously the wrong call.
I am not interested in making NOED more finnicky and inconsistent to actually use, even if it comes packaged with some stronger effects. I want it to be consistently useful.
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2804093#Comment_2804093
Its not BS. You don't want NOED to change. When a change would eventually make it better for killers also. If you understood what i said, i'd actually buff NOED in the end. I'd buff it for good killers. And weaken it for the trash ones.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2804095#Comment_2804095
I mentioned content creators to say that thinking that noed is unfair doesn't come from nowhere "since players of that caliber came to the same conclusion". From what i've heard, they dislike noed for his snowball potential against solo q players... the same argument you all just put aside.
I know the thought doesn't come out of nowhere, I just disagree with it. I don't think that NOED actually does unfairly punish solo q players, for reasons I've laid out throughout the thread.
Hearing Otz thinks it does have too much snowball potential doesn't change my mind because it doesn't address any of the reasons I think the things I think.
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@BoriskyTheFox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2804077#Comment_2804077
No no no. NOED, as a end-game hex perk, is stronger than other hexes. Because survivors might think that the killer has no hex perks and not waste time cleansing totems. And once the end-game starts.. killers can get surprise instadowns and secure kills.
Sure, but that assumption is going to be proven wrong the first time someone's hit with it. As soon as you see "CURSED: NO ONE ESCAPES DEATH" show up on your screen, you can go find and cleanse the totem- or if you're the one hit, your team can so they can go for a save.
And if they don't... well, people don't always get saved in the endgame without NOED in play, it happens.
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2804068#Comment_2804068
They have quite the experience with the game. That's why it is relevant. It doesn't say that they are automatically right.
I agree! It doesn't mean they're automatically right, and it also means they aren't experts, they're just people with a wider knowledge base to pull from.
They're relevant, but they're relevant because their reasoning might be persuasive, not just because they hold a certain opinion. I don't care that Otz thinks NOED is unfair, necessarily, but I might care why he thinks that.
(I don't, in this scenario, but hypothetically I might.)
That's why it was an argument from authority; you weren't bringing up his argument, just mentioning him because you (presumably) thought his name was inherently more persuasive.
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@BoriskyTheFox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2804033#Comment_2804033
NOED is different and stronger because its a end-game hex perk. And its effects are way stronger compared to the other hexes.
Surely that would make it weaker, though? The killer has a very small window of time to actually make use of it before it's either cleansed, or the survivors just leave the match.
It's still just one lit totem, so I'm not sure why it being the endgame would make that much difference? Maybe the killer's defending it, but in that case you can just go open the exit gates and leave.
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2804052#Comment_2804052
They are experts on the subject not you. You can't put they expertise aside for no good reason. It doesn't work this way. When you want to know if someone is responsible or have a mental illness you ask a psychiatrist... not the local bookseller.
Slight correction, they are not experts on the topic we're discussing, because we're discussing potential balance changes. Otzdarva and the others are very thoroughly knowledgeable on how the current currently is but that doesn't automatically translate to having any particular authority on how it should be.
That's why bringing them up here isn't really relevant, in this area they're just people who play the game whose opinion has about as much weight as anyone else's.
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@BoriskyTheFox said:
Countering it requires a lot of effort and killers can secure at least 1 kill thanks to NOED. Thats why its unfair.
Legitimate question: What makes countering it require a lot of effort? It seems like other hexes can be found and cleansed really quickly, what makes NOED different?
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@CaptTurner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2802098#Comment_2802098
well then, what's their purpose then? for aesthetics?
The emblem system (and by extension the grades that correlate to them) is something of a monthly progression ladder, it's how far along you got and therefore how much of a reward you get on the 13th when they revert back to 0.
It exists to give you a measure of how well you played within a specific game, the matchmaking is totally separate now.
(Worth mentioning that the devs have floated the idea of removing your teammates/opponent's grades from the score screen at the end, as a thing they're considering to help cut down on the confusion.)
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Good to know they're taking it seriously and bringing her offline for a fix.
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803948#Comment_2803948
Do you think he's the only one? Cause he's actually not. Truetalent thinks that NOED is unhealthy and bad designed also. It doesn't come out of nowhere.
A lot of people on the forums also think that, an argument from authority or an appeal to the majority don't really mean much. Otzdarva is a great content creator, probably my favourite, but he has blind spots and it's kind of silly to expect anyone to be right 100% of the time.
I have actual reasons for thinking what I do about NOED, hearing that some other guy thinks otherwise isn't inherently enough to change my mind.
Having the perk work on a token system is honestly the worst idea I could think of, that just weakens an already inconsistent perk- especially if it's still a hex and has all its current counterplay on top of that. At best, it fixes nothing, and at worst it stops NOED from even doing the thing it's supposed to.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't those jungle gyms moved from another point in the map, rather than having been added in on top of the existing ones? I'm pretty sure it works out to either be the same, or slightly weaker since there are fewer loops you can chain together.
I've not actually been able to play for a little while, though, so I can't verify that myself.
Also, obligatory mention that it's not that big of a map.
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@Faulds said:
I'll bring fuel to the discussion. Why does Otz (a content creator killer main with several thousand hours into the game) ask for NOED to work on a token system on top of being a hex? Because it allows killers that does bad in chase to snowball (no other reason). To be honest, i think it would be an overnef. I'd prefer if it was not a hex and put on a timer... or permanent after getting the four survivors hooked before the fifth gen pops (what would be a buff in average settings).
Because nobody's perfect and everyone's going to have bad ideas sometimes?
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It's Clown. Other killers may have inconsistent kits, but the absolute best that Clown can do is shorten some loops IF he isn't hard countered by the pallet being pre-dropped. It is admittedly kind of a tie between him and Legion- while he unambiguously just does less stuff than they do, nothing Legion does is especially strong either, so I get why people would say them.
For my money, though, at least having some mobility, slowdown, and tracking put Legion just a hair above Clown, whose only utility is a mediocre chase power.
As for how to improve him... give him a suite of dramatically more impactful addons. Each one makes his second bottle do something completely different; at base it's still the yellow speed-up gas, but he could have gases for the mangled status effect, gases that degrade generators over time, gases that reverse survivor controls, that make survivors louder, that mess with the survivor's camera, that buff him in various ways... when you load into a match with the Clown, you should have a moment of trepidation and uncertainty. "Oh god... what's he gonna do with those bottles..."
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Except they don't.
Remember Me yes, but you don't have to work for No Way Out to activate. That perk's only requirement is that someone touch an exit gate after it's powered, and you get extra time for each stack that you have.
Additionally, the reason you don't have to work to make NOED activate is because it can be both prevented from ever activating and turned off after it does activate. It's a hex, and it's only active in a small window of time at the end of the match, adding hard requirements onto it like Remember Me would only make it even worse than it currently is.
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Honestly, I'd like it. I really doubt that it'd get OP with a short cooldown, and I'd like to see it more in my games so I would be very on board for this.
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@Faulds said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803516#Comment_2803516
I dunno. Make selfcare (the perk) at 100% of the normal speed, and i'm pretty sure you'd have the exact same issue. They balanced it by making the speed 50% of normal speed. Further more, making every boon have different conditions of activation from another might be making things more complicated (coding wise)... when you can balance the buffs themselves way more simply and directly.
Right, but the problem is that Self-Care is a garbage, useless perk if you use it like that, because it's designed to be used with medkits, which offsets the reduced speed. Unless you also give CoH the same benefit to medkits that Self-Care does, that just makes the perk dramatically less attractive while not really addressing its core issues.
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This poll is missing the "neither" option- the problem with the perk isn't the benefits it gives in either of those areas, it's that you can do it all the way across the map from the killer.
The other boons are balanced in part because using them to their fullest requires the killer to be in their radius too; hidden scratch marks is useless if you aren't in a chase, and the likelihood of crawling to your boon for Exponential is very low, you're better off going down in the radius. This lets the killer know where it is (at least roughly) and thus begins the intended back-and-forth nature of snuffing and relighting boons.
CoH, on the other hand, can proc somewhere on the map and give massive value before the killer even finds it, let alone has a spare moment to snuff it. It's unique among the boons because you actively want the killer away from it, letting you heal up for free with no risk because the killer can't even begin to start playing around it.
I don't know how to fix this, but that is what the problem is. Lowering some speed values may help, but in my opinion it would be better to give CoH a unique cooldown among boons so snuffing it gives more value once it's found, alongside maybe more of a cue to the killer as to where it is. Make it riskier than the other boons- it broadcasts itself more and takes longer to come back when snuffed in exchange for a stronger effect, whereas the other two boons are weaker but more consistent.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803454#Comment_2803454
Enough for it to still be a thing? I don't exactly have access to that kind of information for other survivors. Also, I main doc, so my killer matches really won't help, as madness is a factor. I just know that the number of people failing skill checks is more than zero.
I'm all for fixing it so that If you leave a gen slowly after working on it for a set amount of time (even if it's just 5 seconds) it doesn't explode. However I do feel if you rush off the gen it should (just like fast vaulting and closet hopping while sprinting does) and I don't think we should be doing anything that brings back annoying bullshit we got rid of before (like gen tapping).
I'm still not convinced it would bring back gen tapping when, to my knowledge, that tactic was a thing specifically because of old Ruin.
Also, if you want the generator to explode if you sprint off it that would be a change, because that isn't how it works now. It might happen because it could happen any time you let go of a generator, but it's not a guarantee. Right now there is no safe time to let go of a generator, it could happen at any moment.
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The matchmaking portion is currently broken, so it may be that you just got unlucky playing at off times or getting shunted into a game it needs to backfill as quickly as possible.
It sucks, but it's been acknowledged and should hopefully be fixed soon.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803428#Comment_2803428
Sure if the gen is slowed by the game itself that's one thing. If it's slowed because my teammates are asses, that's a different Matter entirely.
How is "denying a chance at the killer getting a notification on which gen I'm on" not an advantage?
But the only way the killer would get a notification for which gen you're on is if you miss a skill check, and who is actually missing skill checks so regularly that gen tapping is a viable strategy? You lose so much more than that miniscule potential advantage that it really seems kind of silly to bring it up in this context.
Skill checks aren't hard, I thought pretty much everyone agreed with that. Unless I'm missing something regarding your argument here?
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803420#Comment_2803420
1. It makes it so that my survivor matches are just visually more annoying watching my teammates t bag gens.
2. It makes them longer as it takes longer to repair.
3. It screws over killers who rely on the information based gen perks.
4. It is the literal definition of exploit, so why should the fix to it be removed?
1: Yeah, fair enough.
2: ...Is that a bad thing? Gens fly past very quickly right now, and anyone who actually cares about gen speed isn't going to do it since they want skill checks so I'm not convinced it actually would end up that way.
3: This one is a fair point and I agree, but it still assumes that a majority of survivors will gen tap when it does nothing for them. It used to because it circumvented old Ruin, but that isn't the case anymore.
4: Maybe this is me being pedantic but I'm pretty sure the literal definition of exploit requires that it give some kind of advantage, not just be an unintended effect. To borrow from another game, in Borderlands 2 you can do an amusing camera trick with certain shotguns where it visually spins around if you aim while looking straight up- it's unintended and it's even a bug, but because it does literally nothing for you and is just amusing to look at, I don't see anyone calling it an exploit.
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Don't delete it or any other problem map/perk. Fix them.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803276#Comment_2803276
They may or may not be. Just like afk pig isn't really putting themselves in a position to win, just like running to the top of the map to keep from being hooked wasn't getting gens done. I could list more examples, but my point is we are far from a place where players only try to win.
Also yes, the gen tapping to get around skill checks was something that used to occur, so I don't doubt it would return.
My point is more that it gives no advantage and doesn't really have any downsides, so why not? Leaving a generator and having the skill check spawn at the same time just feels bad, and the hypothetical of people avoiding skill checks only counts as a flaw if we aren't accepting the reality that getting a skill check is a good thing once you've played more than a handful of games. You want to hit skill checks, there are a ton of mechanics and incentives surrounding it.
Gen tapping to avoid skill checks would return, but... who cares? What would the benefit for that survivor be, and what would the downside for the killer/other survivors be?
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Some of these are pretty interesting! Up The Ante is definitely the one that catches my eye, though- when you say you get a boost to skill check odds, does that make them more likely or less likely? Otherwise, the only objectionable part is that no perk should affect Trapper's traps, they took that off Small Game for a reason.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803324#Comment_2803324
Because the killer would be face camping and tunneling. Thats my point of why people don't like NOED.
You can't go for save cause killer is face camping so you just pressure gens and leave. By the time the exit gates are ready the hooked person is dead. Killer gets someone else with NOED and face camps them. Guaranteed 2k no matter what.
I mean, you absolutely can go for a save if the killer's face camping, unless that killer's Bubba. Even if you couldn't, though, that's a problem with face camping and not NOED...?
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801377#Comment_2801377
Thats my point. If you can't save all game because its too dangerous why would you be able to save end game?
I'm not sure I'm following, why wouldn't you be able to save before NOED activates? Is there some other part of this scenario that I'm missing...?
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2803239#Comment_2803239
Yes it does, bad players gonna do extremely strange action like repeatedly spamming M1 to cancel all the skill checks.
Right, but what would they actually gain from that? They'd be denying themselves BP, they'd be denying themselves the possible extra progression from Great skill checks, and they gain... the ability to avoid doing something that is trivially easy with a tiny amount of practice?
They'd still be making things worse for themselves by doing that, and it would avoid the problem being discussed, so I don't see any reason not to do it.
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@spodamayn said:
In the total time I've played killer I've never seen the failing skillchecks when getting off of a gen "feature" as a necessary thing. It's just bad game design, and if you have to rely on bad game design to be any good at killer.. you're probably not very good at playing killer.
It needs to be changed, but I'm not sure the best way to go about it. Making it similar to overcharge skillchecks would fix it, but it'd look a bit silly.
Honestly, would it be a bad thing if letting go of a generator during a regular skillcheck simply cancelled that skillcheck?
Gut instinct may be to say that's abusable, but I don't really think it would be. Good skillchecks are not hard to hit, and if you're not doing any skillchecks at all you're missing out on the BP gain and potential extra progression from hitting the Great.
Obviously special/harder skillchecks shouldn't have that quality, even the one in the game that currently does, but just regular ones it seems a bit unnecessary.
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I'm not sure how they'd fix that, though- maybe after an offering is claimed from the bloodweb, it can't show up again until every other map offering has? But at that point, people who want to stockpile offerings for a specific map (say, Scratched Mirror Myers players who want a lot of Gideon's, Lery's, and Midwich offerings) would end up in a worse off spot. I'm genuinely curious, do you have a way of fixing the issue?
(Also, minor point, but I'm pretty sure Overwatch is almost dead because of the staggeringly awful controversies surrounding its developer company more than just because it got a bit repetitive, lol.)
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2802792#Comment_2802792
I'm not sure if I've ever heard anyone say that Survivors should be punished for leaving the gen as a Killer approaches.
Because Survivors think they should have everything work in their favor.
If you think about it, instead of brushing me off, you'd understand what I mean; It's punishing Survivors who don't leave early. The ones who have to SPRINT AWAY because the Killer is 10 meters away.
But, again, you think it's a 'QoL' thing because clearly nothing in this game should favor Killers in any way, shape, or form. Anything that does is CLEARLY an oversight and needs to be fixed.
Wait, hold up a sec- how would leaving the gen early solve this problem? The issue is that if you let go when a skillcheck spawns, it fails, no matter whether the killer is ten metres away or on the other side of the map. You could do everything right and leave the gen early instead of greeding it with the killer in your face, and what's being discussed will still happen because the core issue is that there is no truly safe time to let go of a generator save for the millisecond after you hit a skillcheck, and that's not a reliably predictable event.
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@PatriotZest said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801123#Comment_2801123
when did you get them
In the... second or third wave of them being given out? I was one of the people who initially gave MandyTalk their CloudID so it was definitely after the first point they were supposed to have been given out.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2802057#Comment_2802057
Stop lying dude. This is why I am going to start recording gameplay, starting today, of every Bubba I play against, and create a youtube compilation for the community to see.
Being able to TURN HARD CORNERS and getting instadowns from the 1st minute of the match with NO Prerequisitie (stalking, or whatever), is broken.
What am I lying about, man? The sweep lasts a limited amount of time and turning corners is less efficient, thus using up more of it. It isn't impossible to outplay- it's hard, but it requires Bubba be right on top of you so the counterplay is more about getting distance and utilising pallets + windows to eat up valuable sweep time.
Getting him to bump a corner is definitely the best outcome, though.
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If people don't like when Bubba facecamps, but also don't like when he actually uses the fun and engaging chase power he has, I'm not sure what's going to be left of poor Leatherface once he's been changed...
In all seriousness, turning corners with the chainsaw is what differentiates Bubba from Billy and it's a core part of his kit, you can't just nerf him to take it away or he'll be a genuinely terrible and useless killer. It's not impossible to play around it, you just have to not be super close to him when he starts the sweep- which, y'know, I think it's fair for a killer to have an edge if they're right on top of you.
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@Raccoon said:
Wondered why this went from an interesting fast paced convo to a slow paced crawl (looking at post times).
Banished to Feedback :(
I genuinely don't understand why people don't check feedback more, since everyone already knows it has interesting conversations in it. Really weird, right?
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801977#Comment_2801977
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2801981#Comment_2801981
The game needs more than just minor to medium tweaks though. even the last two patches have introduced more performance issues for a significant part of the userbase, and some stuff has been going on for years without being touched. There are many people (myself included) who DO appreciate the under the hood work that gets done over time, but the problems add up faster than the fixes, and its been like that for a long time.
I really wouldn't call last midchapter minor to medium tweaks, and the point still stands that the community reaction to actually getting a patch that primarily focused on game health was to ######### and whine about how it "didn't have anything in it".