herbaljellyfish
herbaljellyfish
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It's literally a "screw survivors" patch. And to hell with solo q. This isn't even about the perks anymore. Killers just got straight up buffed quite significantly and survivors got nerfed. The perk changes just adds salt to the wound. I'd love to see the stats on the PTB with these changes
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I've been getting a lot of reverse pallet stuns by just using pallets normally. It use to be difficult to get reverse pallet stuns but at least 3 out of 5 pallet stuns I get, the killer teleports to my side. And yes, I've been getting hit from 5+ meters away. On the other side of the coin spins have been way more successful at close range and it seems like FOV techs work way better taking the killer several seconds to realize what's happened, almost like my game is a few seconds ahead of theirs.
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gotta feel really great as a killer to "outplay" someone without any tools. I mean, nothing says smoll pp like beating someone who's defenseless, right? As a killer, you should literally never have to try. Every game should be ez pz 4k.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2927993#Comment_2927993
Stealth got nerfed, and that's about it. All the buildings have 1-2 God Windows and 90% of Pallets are God Pallets
Would love to see you loop any pallet on this map more than once. Please. Show us that they are god pallets. You're so full of crap. The windows in 3 of the houses are broken I can agree with that. The pallets however are unmindgameable trash that are just two straight lines on both sides.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2927903#Comment_2927903
House of Pain has two really strong pallet spawns. A lot of the pallets are short walls with 2 long sides meaning that without a range attack you have to break the pallet anyways since there is no way to play around them unless you bloodlust. There's like 2 pallets I can think of where you can realistically play around them without bloodlust when they are already thrown.
I'm not sure what kind of pallet strength you want, but the weakest haddonfield pallets are stronger than the pallets that existed on Hawkins where the killer could easily hit you on the otherside without really trying.
Other than maybe 2 pallets, they are all literally straight lines on both sides, making them completely non-loopable, you may can get one loop, but then will be hit by a lunge because they are literally just a straight line. The maybe 3 car loops are OK at best, same as the car loops on badham. If you don't get the stun, you take the hit, but can only loop it once before a lunge will hit you. The rest of the pallets are even worse than the care loops because they are long STRAIGHT LINES. One loop, and a lunge will hit you and the other side is so short you can just walk around because there's nothing but a dead zone by the pallet.
I will say there are 3 houses that are VERY strong, but that's it. Three spots on the map and the rest is ######### pallets and just an absolute dead zone waste. It's annoying as a killer to have a chase in one of the 3 houses and it's annoying as a survivor to be literally anywhere else than those three houses. It's a horribly designed map and woefully imbalanced. Killers DC, Survivors DC just when this map spawns it's literally THAT BAD. Seems people would rather suffer a penalty than to play this gutter trash. 80% of the map is killer sided, the other 20% is unbelievable broken for survivors. It's like having 3 shacks with the rest of the map being dead zones.
If you struggle getting hits/down on one of the INCREDIBLY unsafe pallets, idk what to tell you honestly. You know that if you hold M1 you can do a lunge instead of a quick attack, right? Do that on any of the pallets and you'll get a guaranteed hit. Or just bate the drop and walk around the short side. Survivors can't mindgame these pallets. They are straight lines and don't block LOS. The three houses though, yes those are completely broken.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
Congrats. I’ve never actually heard of a succesful ban appeal before.
What can I say BHVR is just! If you were innocent, I imagine they would lift the ban like they did for me! Just wanted to brag about the BHVR team a bit because they did me right!
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@SuzuKR said:
Ah yes, the stuff people say every time there's a new horror asymm and then never works out.
one day, it probably will work out then BHVR will be like, "oops". Only reason they don't give a ######### is because there is no competition, but competition is inevitable. If BHVR won't listen, some dev eventually will
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I have mained Legion for a long time. I honestly thought he was plenty strong enough, easily 3-4k-ing 85% of my games without addons. But to me, that's just the killer role being pretty easy to play. I welcome this new change. Having mained him for so long I know how to counter him really well at pallets, using FOV techs and lockers. He was pretty long overdue for a buff, however. I don't see him getting nerfed, people just need to get used to his juiced up playstyle now. He's incredibly easy to counter if you don't panic, but that buff to frenzy is really, really nice. People just aren't used to it yet. Staying injured all game can be annoying, much like with Plague, but it really puts a hinderance on his power. If you have a solo team that keeps trying to heal all game like they cleanse all game against plague, nothing will get done and you're gonna get smoked so I can see it being an annoyance for a good solo survivor to go against, but solo is just annoying in general. I wouldn't worry. Many people may not even be aware of the change and are just finding out the 5th hit can down. I'll still main him no matter what happens because I'm already used to pre-buff, but for now I'm having a hell of a time playing as and against him.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2825442#Comment_2825442
Just imagine if her place as a free killer was swapped with Trickster and I think that you can appreciate her more, again :)
I don't mind Trickster at all. I rather enjoy his chase interactions. He's also extremely easy to beat and doesn't have an annoying hum. Would rather face 20 trix in a row than to face a huntress once
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The lullaby is super annoying and the hatchet hits rarely feel fair and are visually atrocious. It makes trying to dodge her hatchets almost a moot point unless the killer has superb latency. Anything above 50-ish ping will result in "#########" hits. She can be tolerable sometimes, but again it heavily depends on the killer having fantastic latency. She's just a poorly designed killer for how hitboxes and killer client hit registration are designed. It's only her too. Other killers with projectiles: DS, Nemi, Plague, Tickster seem fine to me and work really well generally speaking. Huntress is just very poorly executed, but hey the devs seem to love it. I would be happy if I never had to hear that stupid humming again too.
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@Pulsar said:
Killer is completely playable and most matches are winnable.
Few matches are actually fun, however.
Yeah. I picked up killer about 1,500 hours into the game after maining survivor expecting to just get ######### on based on what I see online and it's exactly the opposite. Sometimes I get my butt kicked but most matches are completely one-sided in my favor as killer. Perhaps because it's easier because I'm so intimately familiar with how survivors play and run tiles, but I rarely have issues playing killer. Since MMR dropped I almost exclusively play killer now because Solo Q is a joke. Wish I had friends to play with, but solo is just not fun anymore, but at least I'm having a blast as killer. I loved Legion before and this rework is super nice and I love him even more now.
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While I don't want to call people baby killers or tell people to get good, I had to vote no. There are almost no playable pallets other than a few meaning you just have to drop the pallet and run, you can't loop them. Also there are no viable window vaults except for 1 T&L wall. Those one time use pallets are pretty much all you have other than possibly a handful of loops on the entire map. A lot of the loopable pallets require you to get a stun too because the loop is incredibly unsafe and not playable after being dropped.
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@Phasmamain said:
Probably because he is amazing against solos due to the coordination required to solve the box effectively
Every Pinhead I see already knows the lament spawn locations. Even if it's the first thing you go for as survivor, he gets to it first due to killer speed. Rinse and repeat for an easy win. Can't do gens, can't heal, can't loop, just pick up the lament when it spawns and it's a guaranteed win. That's why he's the highest kill rate killer. He takes no skill, just knowledge where the lament spawns. Even Spirit who has an incredibly low skill floor has a lower kill rate, and it's because it still requires the player to outplay the survivor. With Pinhead, simply picking up the Lament shuts down all loops and any activity a survivor can perform. Keep doing this and there's literally no chance of not getting a 4k at 5 gens.
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Anyone that has a chance to solve the Lament, you HAVE to be in low-mid MMR. Every Pinhead I play against grabs the lament before any survivor feasibly can, even if it's the first thing they do. They force the initial chain hunt, effectively shutting down any chance of gens, healing or chase, and just keep doing so when it respawns. The passive ability literally wins them games for just picking it up. He's a no skill, high knowledge killer where if you know the lament spawns, you automatically win. He's the highest kill rate killer, and it's due to a passive ability that requires no skill. I wish for once I could have a game where solving the lament was even possible, but most will use the addon that hides it from survivors and just go pick it up, ensuring the win within the first 10 seconds of the game.
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@chargernick85 said:
Sounds like bad luck to me. I am exclusively a solo survivor and my escape rate is much higher then yours. It takes a dc, gen phobic survivors, or a great killer and even then sometimes we still win. All it takes is one bad chase for the killer to lose.
I don't feel like MMR is doing what it's supposed to be doing. I'm much like OP. I care very little about escaping. Chases and sick plays are what's fun to me. I'll have a game where I complete 3 generators all by myself, get 5-8 flashlight saves, do 2-3 totems, run the killer for a total of 4 and a half minutes without getting downed, 3 safe hook saves, heal a total of 6 health states on other survivors, have 5 protection hits either to help a survivor wiggle off or prolong their chase....I'm the one who ends up dying while the urban nea did half a gen and hid in 10 lockers all game gets the escape. I'll check after the match and see I'm paired with three survivors with less than 20 hours in the game(meanwhile I have 2.6k) and we were matched with a killer with 5k hours. If you're escaping consistently, I hate to break it to you, but you're probably the one being carried or you are just EXTREMELY lucky. Bad survivors consistently get boosted to higher MMR because they get carried, so even at higher MMR you still have several paint eating teammates. Occasionally I'll get some savvy teammates and we'll rock ######### out, but almost every game I'm matched with survivors who are scared of the terror radius, will DC on first down, will crouch walk while the killer is across the map, throw pallets as soon as they hear the terror radius, will leave you to die on hook for their own preservation, can't run the killer more than 15 seconds and fail skill checks constantly.
I honestly think that the matchmaking does this on purpose. I remember when I first started playing years ago, it was impossible to escape as a survivor, especially when trying to learn the game. DBD is a hard game to get into as survivor because your first 50 hours will feel impossible and like the game is extremely killer sided. I think I'm consistently matched with new players to bolster their escapes. Sure I get mad at new player stupidity, but I can't blame them. I sucked ass until around 1k hours. Sure I COULD play selfish, not engage in chases, not take protection hits and not take self-risky plays to save others, but not only would that make me a bad survivor, it would be incredibly boring.
The problem is, tunneling and camping are too effective against baby survivors. I honestly think killers are very aware of this and use it to their advantage but would NEVER admit it. Many games I play, If I get found first, the killer will give up on chase after about a minute when they realize they won't catch me easily and may have to exert a lot of effort and/or time to hook me. After running the killer for a minute, they leave and about 20 seconds later I hear a meg scream and see she's down. Then that killer will just tunnel them out. I'll see the killer occasionally throughout the match, but they'll never commit more than a few seconds chasing me. They repeat the tunnelling process on the other survivors until they're all dead and they'll either slug the last one so I can't get hatch, or hopefully hook them. Much like OP I escape probably 2/10 games, but those two times are through hatch, which has no effect on your MMR. I'm sick of getting 20-30k bp every match while the rest of my team got less than 10k and I either die or escape through hatch. It's super annoying. I don't care much about escaping, but I'm sick of having to sweat every single game, carry 3 other survivors on my back to a sweaty killer running ruin/undying/scourge/noed EVERY SINGLE GAME, against people who installed like a week ago.
Of my 2.6k hours, roughly about 800 of that is killer, and while yes I think SWF can definitely be frustrating, but this idea that EVERY game is an optimal SWF is complete bull. I main legion and have overcome flashlight squads, boil over/breakdown squds, etc and it's some of the most fun I've ever had playing this game. Maybe it's because I'm a survivor main, but even as Legion I can end chases super quickly because I know how the survivor will play. I know when/where to keep gen pressure, know when to look out/handle flashlight saves/ boil over etc. I don't think survivor is hard, but I don't think killer is either in any way shape or form and that's just my honest opinion. But matchmaking has ruined the solo survivor experience. Just some competent teammates is all I ask for. Hell, I could escape 1/50 games, but as long as the game is fun, I wouldn't care. I would love to see states of individual survivors now. I can almost guarantee most survivors have an escape rate of 15% or less in a game where killers think that getting a 3k means the game is survivor sided. The current perk meta for killers combined with the matchmaking makes this a golden time for killers. Even huge streamers like OTZ thinks that killers have it super easy these days. He also pointed out that even if you get a 4k 50 times in a row, the one time you got a 3k will leave a bigger imprint and frustrate you. That's insane seeing as how being a solo survivor nets you a loss 90% of your games.
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@squbax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2874258#Comment_2874258
When you make a crow take flight a cooldown activates right after, man doesn't even know how the killer works and here dissing everyone who plays her, and since when is ruin still good? With the recent meta if survs let ruin active more than 30 seconds my guess is even an addonless trapper can clap that team.
The cool down is based on how many crows were used. Looks like YOU are the one who doesn't know how the killer works lol. Also ruin is really good on Artist, because she can monitor it with a bird or even camp it while putting pressure elsewhere, especially on gens giving her even more ruin value. Why do I have to explain this to a Killer main?
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@Adaez said:
I looked at every killer in the game,and all of them have viable counterplay except The Artist.
Trapper - Disarm his traps,m1 killer that can be looped and juked.
Wraith - Stealth m1 killer that can be looped and juked.
Hillbilly - Can be looped and juked,obstacles and breaking line of sight are very strong againts him.
Nurse - Pallets dont do much but she can be juked,breaking line of sight helps a lot,even a well timed pallet drop can stun her.
Myers - Stealth m1 killer that can be looped and juked.
Hag - Hit and run killer that can be looped and juked.
Doctor - M1 killer that can be looped and juked.
Huntress - Ranged killer that can be looped and juked,tall obstacles and breaking line of sight are very strong againts her.
Bubba - Can be looped and juked,windows are very strong againts him.
Freddy - M1 killer that can be looped and juked.
Pig- Stealth m1 killer that can be looped and juked.
Clown - M1 killer that can be looped and juked.
Spirit - M1 killer that can be looped and juked.
Legion - Hit and run killer that can be looped and juked.
Plague - Ranged killer that can be looped and juked.
Ghostface - Stealth killer that can be looped and juked.
Demogorgon - M1 killer that can be looped and juked.
Oni - Can be looped and juked.
Deathslinger - Ranged killer that can be looped and juked.
Pyramid Head - Can be looped and juked.
Blight - Can be looped and juked,obstacles are very strong againts him.
Twins - Can be looped and juked.
Trickster - Can be looped and juked,talle obstacles and breaking line of sight is very strong againts him.
Nemesis - Can be looped and juked.
Pinhead - Can be looped and juked.
The Artist - Cant be looped or juked in a chase because of her zoning,holding W or avoid chase is the only thing that works but I dont think that's viable counterplay.
You can't reason on a killer main biased forum. You are completely right. She's not even a skill-based killer, but a knowledge based killer(knowledge of loops and tiles). Her zoning is through the roof. People LOVE to point out her coooldown on birds, but SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO USE ALL 3 IN A CHASE!!!! That argument is not only tiring, but completely illogical. The only way to counter Artist is a bad Artist. Her base speed makes "shift + w" go out the window. You either eat the bird AND take an M1, or you take an M1 trying to move to another tile, which by the way is completely dictated on the placement of birds(zoning). She has no 1v1 counterplay. She can completely zone and deny direction altogether. There is NO REASON as an Artist that your chases should last more than 20 seconds. I would NOT say she is braindead, but easily the most oppressive killer in chase WHILE having incredible map/gen pressure. Can't tell you how many times I've been hit by birds while she is chasing someone else because of their infinite range. It's insane.
She's easily S tier, but not played often because she is incredibly boring. Hell, I see more Legion's than Artists. Her gameplay as a killer is boring and going against her is just unfun. There is no mindgame and no outplaying her. Artists get easy 4ks but nobody plays her because she's extremely busted. Killer mains just LOVE to cry that other people are crying when something is incredibly busted. Throw on Ruin/Undying/Pain Resonance and she is God in solo Q. She's not even allowed in tournaments because she is busted.
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Yes, thanks for not reading any of my post.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2846684#Comment_2846684
“If a nurse can reliably hit her blinks”, you mean, the blinks that rely on her winning her mindgames? If she’s reliably winning every mindgame, she SHOULD be hitting her blinks. The survivor needs to get better at not being so easily read.
Yeah, and that saying is also wrong. Something being commonly said is literally irrelevant. People commonly said the earth was flat in the past too.
Did you read my comment at all? Even if she loses the initial mindgame, the second or third blink allows them to correct their misread. Hence, if they can reliably hit blinks, they will score the hit, even if they initially misread the mind game. Mind gaming is eliminated after the first blink. Subsequent blinks are just correcting.
"Even if you out mindgame her on first blink, they just correct with a second blink and now even a third one" you literally just didn't read. "Reliably" in the meaning of distance
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2846684#Comment_2846684
"If a killer can reliably win a match, there is no way to defeat them"
It's not untrue statement, but plain stupid.
I have no idea where you're pulling those words from. Certainly not my comment.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2846670#Comment_2846670
Nooo come back! ☹
The game is not as bad, come on! There are killers that are very fun to play like Pinhead or Doctor because they require precise mindgames and practice, and feel very rewarding!
I cannot agree with you on everything: Nemesis is not strong or A tier, he's B tier, so is Artist, she's not that strong.
I disagree. Maybe against god tier SWF Nemi and Artist aren't that great, but they are fundamentally broken. But again, It's just a band-aid to an actual problem. Those two killers(and a god tier nurse which is rare) are the only killers with no actual counterplay. They are completely busted and anyone who knows how tiles and loops work can easily zone(completely negating the terrible advised counterplay of "hold w" for easy downs with no need to mindgame. But that's beside the point. I'm not picking on killers. I play killers too and there's plenty of stuff busted on the survivor end. I've just grown to hate the game now. It's massively unfun and/or boring 90% of the time. It was fun for a while, but now imo it's one of the worst multiplayer games due to the just blatant poor design choices. Legion is my main for killer so you can imagine how rough that is. I don't want a win handed to me, challenge is welcome, but the dependence on perks/killers you use is ridiculous. This game could disappear from my steam library at this point and I would just say "good riddance". I don't even care if I've spent $100+ on it. It's an incredibly ######### game.
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@ad19970 said:
Meh I enjoy going against him, he is harder to counterplay at loops than the majority of killer but he certainly does have counterplay, although less than most killers. I wish i would go against him more often.
No idea why you are going against him so often. I dont see him too often and didn‘t think he was so popular. Has this been only today like that or longer?
what counterplay? You mean dodge a whip, gain 3 meters and eat an m1 anyway? His ability to break pallets is just too much and his recovery time after missing a whip is practically non-existent. I'd rather do away with the contamination mechanic and just have him injure on first whip with the length of tier 3 but not be able to break pallets. Other killers that can break pallets quickly like billy, leatherface and demo cannot recover nearly as quickly as nemesis when he does so. Either extend his recovery time for breaking pallets or remove the mechanic altogether. I've you play solo q, Nemi will get t3 in 2 minutes flat and there is literally no counterplay in a chase at that point. At least with like Demi, he has a long recovery time after using shred that you can extend a mid to long loop for another loop if you dodge, you can't do this with nemesis unless it's at an unsafe pallet. Admittedly, Nemi is super weak early game, but once he gets perma tier 3, he's unequivocally unstoppable. Sure you can dodge a few whips but best case scenario you extend a chase by a few seconds. Nemesis and Artist are the only killers I have a problem with because you don't need to be a good player while using them to be insanely oppressive. I'd rather go against Blight/Nurse/Spirit 50 games in a row than ever see a busted ass nemesis/artist. I mean, compare Nemi to Myers who has limited t3 and can't break pallets to Nemi who has infinite t3, can break pallets, zombies and near non-existent slowdown when missing a whip attack while having normal base speed. Same problem with artist, base speed is just too fast. People say "w away" but that only adds 2-5 seconds to the chase if the killer is competent and knows how to zone.
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@[Deleted User] said:
There are a shocking number of players who think she "ignores game mechanics" as if she doesn't have her own unique set of mechanics. And if you try to explain Nurse counterplay to people, they'll move the goal posts and say "...but a *good* Nurse". Half of it is literally running away sooner and not greeding a 40% gen against a killer who can cover 20 meters
I mean, it's not untrue. If a nurse can reliably hit her blinks, there is no counterplay. Even if you out mindgame her on first blink, they just correct with a second blink and now even a third one. True, she's hard to get that good with, but many people are. It doesn't matter if you break LOS or mindgame, that second blink is always going to be there to correct their misread on the first blink. Unless your default build consists of IW/Q&Q/DWM/DH, you're not going to be able to do much at all.
It's often said that survivors don't juke Nurse, she just misses her blinks.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
It needs to go. Survivors take of as soon as they hear it and it ruins most her steath.
She has a lullaby? I've only ever heard her chase music and when she teleports or starts phasing(when she's close to you). Otherwise, she just pops up out of nowhere. She's gotten so many free hits on me because there's no terror radius or anything. I'm aware she has the oblivious addon, but I honestly wondered what good it was because I can't notice a difference. I honestly dig it especially when you can't see the TV from the gen your're working on. "Do I stay on this gen in case she didn't teleport to the closest tv, or do I start running". Sure, remove her lullaby. I don't think I've ever heard it anyway. The surprise is fun. Or maybe even make the oblivious addon her basekit.
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@GoshJosh said:
Don’t.
Came here to say this. Just don't. Game is in the most stale, unfun and tilting state it's been in for years. He got out, stay out.
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@SkeletalElite said:
Allow second hits to do damage to the deep wound meter based on the number of survivors you've deepwounded with that use of power.
So if you've gotten no hits and you just use frenzy to get another hit on an already deep wounded survivor it does nothing, so it cant be used to get guranteed downs after long amounts of time..
But if you deepwound the whole team THEN second hit someone you can get a down from full meter with your power.
If you deepwound 2 or 3 people before second hitting one hte deepwounded ones, you drain their bar partially and can maybe drain it fully later if you manage to spot another survivor during your chase with them to chain power again.
Id rather have feral frenzy just be infinite until cancelled or all survivors deep wounded with a longer cooldown time. I main Legion and generally don't have too much of an issue, it's just on bigger maps, their power is pretty useless because you can't reach everyone.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
This post has the purpose of collecting the opinions of veteran/expert Dbd players that have been playing Dbd for a lot of time, and that preferably have been playing both sides of the game (survivor and killer) constantly up to now (or 3 months of absence max), about the current balancement state of dbd. So, if you've been playing dbd just for a bit/are a new player, or are still learning but don't feel confident enough, please tell us how confident you feel playing both sides and your number of hours so we can see and confrontate the different opinions comparing the hours and the knowledge of each other. ALso everybody, if you can please share how many hours you have in total or how many hours experience you gained watching content creators would be much appreciated :D
So, I've been wanting to create a thread like this for a very long time, but I wanted to wait until the new DLC came out, so we have a lot of time to confrontate the different opinions and discuss interesting things until the mid chapter patch comes out. I hope this thread will achieve a lot of opinions during the course of a month, and will stay alive for a very long time!
So, talking about the balancement of Dbd is a VERY COMPLEX MATTER, no doubt, and we gotta set a definition of what we're talking about and DON'T TAKE AND EDGE CASE ONLY. Yes, they're important, but they're not THE ENTIRE GAME.
If you have any doubt about anything here's the Dbd wiki:
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Dead_by_Daylight_Wiki
7 are the big categories that determine the balancement of the game:
- Killers with their respective powers, and there are 27 killers in total right now. Survivors apart from changes to the loudness of the grunts of pain(with Ace and others being harder to hear, and instead Jane and Jeff and other being very loud, and others like Jake and Laurie being a mix because they have inconsistent breathing and are very good against Spirit) and stealth visibility cosmetics (and female survivors being smaller usually), can all be considered skins, so don't matter.
- Perks
- Maps(realms)
- Items
- Add-ons (both sides)
- Offerings
- RNG/luck. With this it's included things as a corner of the map being full of pallets or a complete dead zone, thing that can completely turn the game around, especially against some killers like Bubba or Billy; the luck mechanic, survivor spawns, totem visibility and spawns, hook spawns, etc.
I think that, after 4 years, everybody can retain the @marth88gaming Depip squad experiments OUTDATED, because TOO MANY THINGS PASSED SINCE MARCH 2018. Almost all maps got reworked, a lot of killers got buffed and reworked; BNPS, Instaheals, Toolboxes, Mories, and many other GAME CHANGING things have been completely reworked, and other game changing perks like Corrupt Intervention, Pain Resonance, Ruin, Undying, Dead Man's Switch, Deadlock have been introduced/reworked, and many maps with infinites/god windows EXPLOITS (as the devs themselves called it. I'm not joking, they declared them exploits when they started reworking all the maps in 2019/2020) have been reworked. Decisive strike was a completely different game changing perk back than (even now, and thank god it and borrowed time exist otherwise why not just tunneling 1 survivor always to win much more often), so that's why you have to be up to date.
To consider the balancement of the game, we gotta aknowledge that the win condition is actually, as SBMM/MMR declared it, killing and escaping, and consider the survivors as a team. So if 4/3 survivors escaped the survivors won, if 2 escaped it's a tie, if just 1 escaped or nobody survived the killer won.
Now, and this is why I need veteran/expert players, and if possible even competitive players if there is any, we need to consider the survivors being, other than as efficient as possible, in full voice communication, able to callout positions on the map with a clock system as competitive players do. Like when playing chess, a rule that is kinda implicit is that YOU GOTTA TAKE FOR GRANTED THE OPPONENT WILL ALWAYS DO THE MOST EFFECTIVE THING, so don't hope that survivors will be in a lack of communication because that's not a reliable way to balance the game around.
With this in mind,
I'd like you to talk and consider as much as possible about the balancement of the game considering as many cases as possible, and both sides always balanced. If for example you wanna consider the Nurse with no perks or add-ons, you gotta also consider the survivors with no perks and no add-ons and items. Or if you wanna consider a Nurse with 3 blinks and recharge + Starstruck you also gotta consider the survivors with the best perks, offerings and add-ons combinations. If you're playing the worst killer but with the best possible build, you still gotta consider the survivors with the best stuff combined. Etc, I hope you understood the concept. Still, include the edge cases, because not all edge cases have a counter, or have the proper organisation available every match.
So, try to consider the average if you wanna put all killers together for example, and discuss as much as possible about individual killers/perks/etc in a profound way, SO PLEASE NO THINGS LIKE "KILLERS ARE OP", OR "SURVIVORS ARE OP", because we all know that there are scenarios where these statements are definitely not true.
To conclude and sum it up, consider killers and survivors playing as efficient as they can in all cases, so no archives or side objectives, and completely exclude the fun factor, so if a killer like Pyramid head is super good at tunneling 1 survivor out of the game due to its power you gotta consider it.
please share your opinions if you're a veteran/expert, let's have a good discussion!
2.5k hours here. Actually just uninstalled the game today. No game should tilt you or make your blood boil and this game absolutely does. I'm going to lay out what I think about balance as follows:
Balancing in DBD for multiple years now has been completely artificial. Band-aids really without addressing any of the real problems. One of the biggest tells here is the use of meta perks that both sides use to feel they even remotely have a fighting chance. There is no existing casual gameplay to DBD. For instance: Ruin/Undying/Pain Resonance/Pop on Spirit/Nurse/Blight/Pinhead/Artist/Nemesis...etc... Don't blame killers for running these though. Gen speed is a problem and instead of reworking core gameplay it's "bandaided" with perks creating the "meta". But if you're say a solo survivor, dealing with this EVERY SINGLE GAME is exhausting and unfun. These types of builds are not balanced for a solo q experience, especially when SBMM is so broken that 2k+hour survivors get paired with 3 other <20 hour potatoes who can't contribute to countering these builds. When you try to buff killers to make them more viable to go against SWF, you completely break solo Q(at least with the current state of match making). But if you try to balance out solo q, then you inherently buff SWF making killers even more miserable against coordinated groups.
There are perks to counter perks, and perks to counter gameplay styles and it's honestly just way too much. Things like BT/DS/UB shouldn't need to exist to simply artificially help with tunneling and camping. The core gameplay should be fixed where these types of "tactics"(honestly, lack there of) make such little impact that perks like these aren't needed. It feels terrible when you're like "oh I'm not going to bring DS this time" then immediately get tunneled out of your next match thinking "well, i'm never not bringing DS again". Or going against a facecamper and having BT. The existence of these perks also punish killers who do not use these "tactics" and it's not fair to them. Or like I mentioned above, killer perks to slow down gen speeds because the core gameplay is just rotten. So we have this never ending cycle of meta perks on both sides.
Then there's certain iri addons(i'm talking both killers and survivors). Let's not call them ultra-rare, because they aren't. If you have any p3 character, you're getting iri's at least every 3 bloodwebs. This is not "ultra-rare" in the slightest and some are just insanely powerful that tilt favor in one direction or another far too much to be as common as they are. But again, these types of addons only exist to artificially show balance.
Then there's maps of course. Maps are one of the most unbalanced things in the game. Maps are far too heavily dependent on who the killer is. Then you have maps like The Game, which is disgustingly littered with VERY strong pallets(I would say it is the most survivor sided map in the game) versus large outdoor maps that are full of deadzones with generators in them artificially giving killers "free hits" or downs in those areas that reflect neither the killer or survivors skill.
All in all, I think the game is just so poorly designed from it's objectives, to it's ranking, to it's SBMM all the way down to it's gameplay. The only reason I personally feel DBD has a player base still is because there is no competition. I mean, VHS is coming out soon, but I can't speak on it because I've never played it.
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@Adaez said:
When will it finally be time for BHVR to acknowledge the fact chapters will only increase the playerbase for a short period of time,but now not even that because of the glaring issues the game suffers from.
These are the main reasons I think its driving people away,old or new:
SBMMR is not working at all.
Encountering cheaters daily.
New games of the genre coming out soon.
The fact 90% of your games as survivor are againts campers and tunnelers,because its a strategy that just works in the current meta of rushing gens then dip.
Playing killer is not fun because playing the game normally without camping or tunneling is tedious and feels unrewarding.
Insane grind that's very unfriendly especially to new players.
Game has become too stale because BHVR never took a risk until now,since they didn't need to.
Game is missing basic quality of life features that other games of the genre have.
You mean "Escaped Based Match Making". Skill is not calculated, just escapes. And length of match?(Apparently)
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Why? Killers dodge lobbies all the time especially if they suspect SWF. What's the difference? Only killers get the agency to determine if they think a match is going to be unfun or not? Please explain why you think it's moronic to let players decide if they would like to choose to dodge a match they presumably deem to be unfun? Do you play games to be miserable, or to enjoy yourself?
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2846557#Comment_2846557
But then you not only take away the killers fun you will have certain killers who wait 20 min to play there Favorit killer because the mind of four people need to align to no dodge. But hey your opinion is totally valid and I bet there are more people that share that mind set. But I want to say on the same aspect of facing incredibly annoying stuff I would in return love to know if someone bring CoH or DH because that stuff isn't op but so annoying so I kinda understand your point
Exactly. If killers see 4 flashlights or 4 tool boxes, they'll likely just leave because they know it's not going to be fun. I just think that if all players, survivors and killers retained the agency to choose if they would like to stay in a game or not based on who they're up against before the game starts, you'd get a lot less DCs happening. Also, I didn't mention earlier but the MMR probably plays a huge part in DCs.
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@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2845946#Comment_2845946
Same for me, I rush killer to iridescent, then mostly dabble in survivor for the rest.
Yeah, for me it's always been vastly easier to pip as killer all the way up to r1 than solo survivor.
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@IamFran said:
As solo survivor is way harder.
Truth. 4 pips on gold and keep getting depipped due to facecamp lol.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2845976#Comment_2845976
That can never happen. What you said is exactly the reason why you can't see wich killer you are up against because people would just dodge till they get a weak killer or a killer they now how to counter. It's incredible frustrating to see people dc on a regular basis right now because you play a killer that is far from op but survs just don't want to deal with. If such a thing would be ever come into dbd they could refund every one that owns legion plague nurse blight bubba doc and many more because you won't get a game
Or or or...and I'm just spitballing here, the killer is just not fun to play against. Like the example I gave above. It's not that the killer is OP, just takes a complete masochist to enjoy it because it's annoying and busted. Do you not play games for fun? You remove the element of fun, people DC and they have every right to do so because they're playing to enjoy themselves. Some of my favorite killers to go against are some of the strongest, Pinhead, Nemesis, Blight, Spirit, etc...They don't have mechanics so heavily dependent on server tick rate and killer latency that makes the whole match feel unfair. Also, que times for survivors is generally 5-10 minutes, so dodging a lobby would only extend this time, but would allow you not to have to be subject to a miserable game that's just unfun. I see nothing wrong with this whatsoever.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2845967#Comment_2845967
There's a very big difference between a hex that inflicts Exposed and COH. That difference being that the former can be permanently removed from the game once found. The killer also has no control over where their totem is placed.
One perk (or group of perks) existing does not make another perk balanced or unbalanced.
Also, if a totem is far out of the way, then while it may take time for a survivor to run there to rebless it, the killer also spent a lot of time walking there (assuming they're not a killer who can teleport) to get rid of it. It's a win-win for survivors: either you get free healing, or more generator progress gets done in the time it took the killer to put it out. COH ultimately buys you gen time if used correctly and if the survivor is smart about where and when to light their totems.
I feel like you're stretching super hard here. It takes like what 2 seconds of animation to snuff a totem? Why on earth would use as a killer just waste time standing around a totem to keep it from being blessed? That is an extreme waste of your time. Use something to give you exposed and counter healing altogether. Also, you're negating the fact there are many other perks that cause exposed status other than hexes. As I said, exposed is a direct counter to heals, and also survivors can be permanently removed from the game. You're making some very illogical arguments that seem like you have put no thought into it. Personally, I wouldn't even care if boons were removed. I don't use them and I play solo only. I may get value out of a boon 1/15 games because I'm not spending 20 seconds to run across the map for a heal.
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@FACK_theFog said:
I think DC penalty makes sense when people are excessively backing out of matches.
But, when gamers are experiencing issues with internet disconnection, or game crashes I find it to be a little tedious. If there is a way to indicate, these issues I hope you guys find the time to action on this matter. As someone like myself is experiencing this issue recently, and I'm sure myself and others would like to get back to playing the game.
Killers can dodge lobbies. Just let survivors see who they're about to go against so they can leave beforehand. Make it where survivors have to lock in their loadout(perks and items) BEFORE they can see the killer, then choose if they want to leave or stay during the prep time. This way people can't abuse loadouts while seeing the killer beforehand, but now they won't have to go against a killer they absolutely hate playing against. You'll probably get far less DCs that way. Me personally, I'd never play against another Huntress ever again. I don't think she's OP or anything, but between the visibly unfair hatchet hits and that super annoying humming, you'd have to be a masochist to enjoy playing against her.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Heal speed was not broken part. It is infinity. Let me picture for you.
Work on generator if killer is not chasing you. Finish your generator. Look around. Bless totem if you find any.
Now your team does not need to heal each other, nobody will waste to time for heals. Survivors have free heal area. And killer is not coming this area because there is not any generator. This is destroying killer's pressure so hard.
If they were destroyable, i would go to the area and destroy boon. It would worth the time i spent for taking pressure back. But it not worth to kick it because survivors will bless it again.
I don't personally use boons, but with all the perks and hexes that give killers exposed status effects, I think it's fine. Survivors waste so much time though going all the way across the map to heal themselves or to relight snuffed totems. It wastes a ton of time, that's why I personally don't like it. However, any exposed perk is a direct counter if it bothers you that much.
also, do bones.(Just kidding - this is a joke - do not take it seriously)
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@N8dog said:
anybody using this offering knows full and well that it is to annoy other players for the entirety of the trial. This map is by far the most hated map of all time.
I love it as survivor. It has a ton of unique tiles and is one of the few maps where you can link half the map as a massive loop without having dead zones. I'm never upset when I get RPD. Midwich can suck a dick though.
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@nikodemo said:
Dead Hard needs only one change. It has to lose the invincibility.
It should be short distance burst perk for extending loops by helping to reach a vault or pallet, and that's all. The invincibility frames are excessive and, imo, out of character for the game.
With all of the perks and hexes that cause exposed status effect, one damage mitigation perk(that can only even be used once in chase) is completely fine. Dead hard is not a big deal whatsoever and is easily countered by baiting it. Just wait literally half a second and you've countered it lol.
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@Raccoon said:
Probably 5% of the time, for me.
It's usually pretty clear I'm going to be camped by the time I get down during these instances.
Interested to hear your HONEST estimates.
4/10 games. You smack a killer in the face with a pallet once or blind them, they gladly throw the game just to see you die on a hook. I'm tunneled probably 8/10 games, but tunneling is much easier to deal with. I'm very pallet conservative during chases so I can make sure I have plenty of resources at end game.
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I reach iridescent with Legion lol. Getting rank 1 with killer is not very hard and generally quicker for me to do than survivor, though with suvivor or killer I can reach rank 1 in about a week of playing. Focus on pressuring gens not killing. SWFs like to play risky so getting downs isn't too difficult if you keep applying pressure to gens. Bring lightborn too. On legion I like to run ruin, haunted grounds, lightborn and brutal strength. I average 2-3 kills a game even against SWF. Plus I mainly play survivor after reaching r1 on killer so mind gaming and zoning is super easy for me.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2843859#Comment_2843859
Nurse ignores game mechanics, ok. And Spirit ignores my eyesight. What's your point?
Nurse has to charge her blinks, recharge her blinks, enter fatigue (successful hit or not), and has a much slower base movement speed. All the while making clear visual and audio cues of what she is doing. I can try to mind game where she is blinking to based on what I see and hear. Spirit completely bypasses vision. How the kicked up dust nerf/change never made it to live is beyond me.
Yes, fun is subjective. I have more fun having counterplay as a survivor than not.
Spirit has directional audio Q to where she is. You don't have to see her at all to know where she's at. Also, simply walking while she's phasing is a HARD counter to her power. I like playing against Spirit, she's very interactive and there's never anything that feels "unfair" when going against her. Also, as someone who always runs IW and a flashlight, I'm always prepared to face her as IW and a flashlight are super strong against her. Blight also has a hard counter of just turning one way when he swings. I've messed up so many blights doing this. Especially when in a small to medium loop. It's the same strat I use against Nemesis. Hug the loop one way and juke the other way of the loop at the pallet when they go to use their power. Blight is essentially and M1 Billy. You can also hard counter blight with lockers when he's using his power.
What people are trying to explain to you about Nurse, is that she has no hard counters. Sure, you can break LOS and be unpredictable, but that second blink allows them to correct the misread. And now, she can have 3 blinks at that. Survivors aren't juking you, you're missing your blinks, making bad reads and not correcting them properly.
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I think she's fun to play against for sure. Her phasing mechanic is really fun during chase because it makes her mind gaming strong. Feels a bit like playing against spirit.
I do think she is a bit weak. But at the same time, I've played against some that have started to put together some pretty nifty tactics that have steamrolled some of the solo Q games I've been in. I've noticed that Devour Hope is really common to run on her(i'm assuming because of the teleport). The problem there though is that eventually survivors will catch on and watch out for totems after first hook. It will still probably be super effective against solo Q, but SWF would smash it out pretty quick.
Another thing I've seen them do is(I don't want to say "abuse" , but kinda) the teleporting TV mechanic to build up condemn super quickly and keep pressure on gens, pretty much forcing people to grab tapes and have to drop them off quickly. I've also seen them use this during chase, just injure the survivor and zone them near tvs, teleport then down them and mori immediately taking someone out of the game in the first few minutes.
I think people are still figuring out how to play her. One thing I like though is that she is far more popular than when The Artist released. I think this really speaks to how boring the artist actually is. Even though she's easily A tier, people just don't like playing her. Honestly, I hate playing against her.
I think we need to wait a little bit for people to get the grasp of her using different builds and tactics then make tweaks from there. I can say for certain though that I thoroughly enjoy her chases.
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Massive balancing issues. Stale meta perks on both sides. SWF. Solo Q is garbage thanks to MMR. Also being a new survivor is just complete cancer. Booting up the game for the first time going against a ruin/undying/pain resonance/dms/noed that also tunnel/camps is just completely gives new survivors a hopeless feeling. Not to mention, good survivor perks are locked behind a paywall with a hefty grind to get. I've tried to get about 8 friends in the past year to play this game with me and they all quit after a couple days and never touched it again. I myself have like 2.5k hours and didn't have to deal with these sweaty ass builds from the get go. Meanwhile killers usually have a wonderful expience AT FIRST and have access to some pretty useful crutch perks like noed without having to grind an insane amount to get it. Eventually they get to higher MMR and have to deal with SWFs which can be discouraging.
Honestly, I must be a masochist because I play solo and every night it is incredibly infuriating. I get paired with 20hr survivors who barely know how to play the game going against the sweatiest meta killer builds. I don't blame the killers for running the builds bc they may be going against a coordinated SWF and need to be prepared, but those builds just demolish and steamroll solo q teams. Every night I get multiple games of 3k+ hour killers with 3 survivors who have less than 50 hours and it's just an utter L. I still have to take week long breaks every now and then because honestly this game is just not fun. I feel like I'm forced to run meta perks like DS, DH and BT along with a flashlight every single game just to get 2 gens done by myself and get the hatch after the killer kills the the other 3. That's after I've been flashlight saving them all game, taking chase and getting hook saves.
However, I'm sure killers go through similar situations with SWF crews where there's just literally nothing you can do even if you're playing really well.
This game is just so based around meta, it's no longer fun.
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@Mechanix82 said:
I think its unfair that killers can turn when they pick up. I think Killers should only be able to pick a survivor up pointing towards then head of the survivor so we can have a better chance at flashlight saves!
Absolutely not. Flashlights take practice to get good at them. Also, killers CANNOT turn when picking up, they are animation locked. You have to time it so that when the blind takes affect, it's the exact moment the killer is no longer animation locked. Flashlights are extremely powerful tools that I use almost every game. At this point, they are a necessity in solo q so I can keep the potato survivors from dying super early in the game. Also, chain blinding is borderline nonsense lol. I've blinded killers up to 8 times in a row using double lenses. Go do a kyf with your buddies and just practice flashlight save timing. You can do all kinds of stuff to save your teammates with flashlights. CJ techs being one of the harder methods but it feels great pulling it off. You not only waste the killers time, but can set free a downed survivor without having to heal them.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2834069#Comment_2834069
There was a poll on this forum asking if the people here were survivor mains, killer mains or played both sides. The overwhelming majority of the players on this forum play both sides.
Despite the claims of a very loud minority that this forum is a killer echo chamber.
If you open a thread and complain about survivor perks, then you'll get the same amount of bait and git gud answers as someone who complains about killer perks.
In regard of camping, I'll never forget a streamer who sat there in the corn without moving, while he complained about the killer who stood in front of the hook. He failed to realize that they both did the same thing. But it's only seen as bad, when the killer does it.
Or let me rephrase it. If you see a gen at 90% and regressing. Do you leave that gen and go for a fresh one, or do you stay and wait for the killer to leave, so you can finish it?
The threads do not reflect what you're saying in the slightest. I mean, I don't have anything else to say other than go look through the threads, and if you still disagree...well...um...you can lead a horse to water, right?
I'm sure it's completely impossible for either killers or survivors to claim they play one or the other or both in order to push their agenda by appearing to have a "nuanced" view by pretending to be the opposite side while saying something to benefit the other side.
It only works for steam, but people could easily post their stats if they wanted to prove they play both sides. For example, here's mine:
https://dbd-stats.net/profile/76561198024224074
Clearly very survivor heavy(90% solo q) but also hundreds of hours as killer
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2834093#Comment_2834093
They do. The problem is my scenario happens way more from my own experience. It is rare to get a game where the doors instantly open and survivors just leave if someone is on the hook. You also need to consider that a killer disconnecting or doing nothing, is just one killer. A survivor disconnecting will likely result in 4 kills with the latter being way more common (every pinhead game )
Doesn't matter if it's 4 survivors, it's only one game's statistics. Whether you get a snowball 4k because of a DC or due to overly altruistic plays, Or the killer DCs or boosts the lobby resulting in a 4 man escape, they affect the statistics the same because it's for one match. And I certainly don't mean to be rude, but "in your own experience" is another example of bias as if other people can't possibly have different experiences. You're fixing your own personal experience on the larger image to confirm your bias on what you think without only anecdotal evidence and nothing with actual substance. Again, sorry if that sounds rude, but I thought I should point it out since this is what my whole post is about.
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@RaSavage42 said:
So using these forums and subreddit... not your own games....
Really though I've been told to Git Gud way too many times before... and it came from survivors who were gloating or salty
I play fair (not Camping and Tunneling) and receive "Git Gud", "Baby Killer", "GGEZ"
Yeah i'm not saying it doesn't happen in games. I'm specifically addressing the forums and reddit. You can camp and tunnel all you want. If that's how you want to play, more power to you, dude. I would only consider not playing fair if you're purposely increasing your ping to take advantage of killer client priority hits or using actual cheats. Otherwise, it's fair game.
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2834069#Comment_2834069
I'm not going to sit here and say that you are wrong...
But there are some of us that have level heads about the differences in Killer and Survivor
We do come here to complain cause we are the only ones who plays the game (not in a group or party)... so yea it may seem like it's Killer favored but truly it's no more then players venting about a match that just got done
Don't get me wrong buddy. I even said in my op that this game suffers from massive balance issues, but that's not what I was getting out. I think every single person is entitled to their opinion based on their own experiences. I'm not at all saying killers cannot have complaints, but here on these forums survivors cannot.
"I think maybe The Artist base speed should be 110% instead of 115%"
Response:
"Lol, bad bait 2/10" - 20 upvotes
"This is a joke, right" - 37 upvotes
etc...
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2833924#Comment_2833924
It certainly isn't the kills and escape ratio. The statistic that includes disconnects and ignores context. Can't count how many games i have got aa 3 or 4k after all gens are done and the gates are open because survivors refuse to leave someone behind. The fact it is so close to 50% shows just how weak killers are tbh.
In an asymmetric game, how is a near 50% win rate not ideal? See, why is it believed that killers should win/get 4k-3ks much more often than the survivor escapes. That's already a massive flag for bias about killers. Also, the same can be said about context of killers. I can't tell you how many killers I've made DC just because I won't let them down me or get frustrated with being constantly juked. I've also experienced several "boosting" killers who are doing a daily with a killer they don't want to play and throw the game and everyone escapes without even being hooked. Do these situations also not skew the stats, or again, anything that veers away from the killer status quo on these forums just don't matter? Funny how you gave an example that would inflate killer stats, but completely skip over the fact that the opposite happens.
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@Brokenbones said:
The Killer and Survivor role both have a skill ceiling to them, however there are RNG factors that tilt specific matches in the favour of each side which can make it feel really unfair at times
Map offerings, big example. If the killer burns a map that favours them - not only do they know what map they are going to but they can prepare in advance. Be that picking a specific killer, loudout etc. Obviously the same applies to survivors in every way.
Map RNG itself is another factor. I've seen some tile layouts on backwater swamp maps that heavily favoured survivors with many pallets in the middle and layouts that favoured killers with massive deadzones in the middle.
I recently played a game on RCPD where, no word of a lie:
There was three generators in a straight line near the S.T.A.R.S office. Two in the hallways outside of the office and one in the showers.
I don't disagree with any of this. And I think this is a conversation for another thread. My main reason for this post was just to point out how unbelievably killer biased and completely illogical and contradictory statements are constantly spewed on these forums. I have nearly 3k hours in this game and have played for years. I have plenty of complaints for both sides, but the mere mention of something from a survivor about a negative experience is met with extreme hostility, condescension and completely irrational beliefs that people couldn't possibly have different opinions/experiences. Hell, I can say with utter certainty that my experience drastically changes from night to night.