gantes
gantes
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I mean, they're better for killers, but I don't appreciate the ammount of Bloodlusting that happens there
On either side, to clarify
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Sure, let's nerf something M1 killers use to have a fighting chance. What could possibly go wrong?
Besides, it can most definitely be played around.
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@SovererignKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/603968#Comment_603968
Would you say the same if the Killer Mori cancel spammed you for the whole time you’re bleeding out.
Not remotely the same thing.
One directly affects your chances of winning, the other doesn't.
One is about rendering someone unable to do ANYTHING, the other is merely a way to get to psychologically weak people.
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I'm sure now that you ORDERED them to do so they will, thank
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I just can't understand how weak minded you have to be to get THAT pissed off over teabagging
I mean, wow, the survivor player pressed CTRL vs you repeatedly. Talk about a way to not affect the game whatsoever and still piss off people for some reason
By getting pissed off you're just tilting and making the game easier for survivors ffs
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@KaoMinerva said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/602704#Comment_602704
You damn straight. I played nurse yesterday around R7 or so and survivors literally tried to LOOP me. Yes, they tried to LOOP me around debris. These are the players that claim nurse OP.
Oh stop. A potato can rank up to rank 1 in this game by playing enough games. Ranks =/= skill, ESPECIALLY rank 7 jfc
Before red ranks balance shouldn't even be a discussion, and bad players can absolutely get to red ranks by playing enough
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I guess running no items to assert dominance is the new filthy tactic for toxic survivors to tilt poor killers
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Wow.
Not even using items.
And no perk in this game is worth complaining THAT MUCH about anymore.
He's just salty he lost, happens sometimes.
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@DocOctober said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/602065#Comment_602065
So what?
Survivors like dismissing the Depip Squad when it comes to SWF, why should that be different in case of the Nurse?
Double standards much, hmm?
So since some people are full of ######### everyone else is allowed to be?
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/601662#Comment_601662
You realized you got trapped in a corner and no way to explain yourself out of it
I wrote a reply on your question for someone I take more seriously
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@Bravo0413 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600554#Comment_600554
Truly I hope if they choose to visit prayer beeds that they just rework it to a whole other thing that's still strong as hell..
Yeah I think her other purple add-ons embody it well. They're EXTREMELY strong but not absurd like Beads.
IMO in order to be allowed to be that gamechanging, add-ons should be pink. Purple are supposed to be the very strong stuff but still in line with the lower tier of add-ons.
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Mark my words, those changes will be GOOD for the Nurse's health overall.
Even if she gets a small nerf at base (probably not gonna happen), Nurse players will have a choice of add-ons instead of using the same 4 in different combinations every game.
Even with the Freddy blocks/Legion pins being meme tier, add-ons have been quite decent lately. I'm sure they'll do a good job on her, considering how popular she is.
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@bkn said:
We don´t know the changes yet, all we know is that the devs tend to not play their own game.
You arguments are based around "IF´s"...
How many Nurse players can actually perform that well to compete against 4 SWF´s with voice comm, meta perks and toolboxes? Lets say 5% of all Nurse players which would be like 1% of the playerbase? And i said compete...
Yep, nerfs are definitely needed here.
I am not asking for SWF nerfs, because there is the Nurse as she is right now to deal with that.
Some people are playing solo in a rank 20 team and get butchered by a decent nurse and immediately screaming for nerfs, thats the problem.
Dude, YOUR arguments are based around IFs.
I'm only going based on what was said.
We had 2 different sources saying 1. changes to the add-ons and 2. changes to the add-ons and SLIGHT base kit ADJUSTMENTS.
Paranoid people are just assuming she's going to get butchered, while I'm going on facts and on what the devs have said.
No, BHVR's "history" isn't an argument here. They haven't issued a MEANINGFUL nerf for free for quite some time now, and the Freddy rework, unlike what many people say, was a pretty significant net buff.
Just chill and wait ffs. If they end up wanting to nerf her too hard, I'll be right there protesting with yall.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/601690#Comment_601690
At the very least, DC compensation points NEED to be moved to the sacrifice category. Brutality is ridiculous because it's one of the most reliable and easiest categories to max out, so by the time you get the bonus it can be 0 points. Sacrifice on the other hand can never be recovered from the remaining survivors, and requires a basically perfect game to max out anyway. It only makes sense to put the points there.
Yeah I never understood why Brutality in the first place.
I think the game should have a system where compensation/extra event points (like No One Escaped for example) should just go automatically to a category that's not filled up yet/has the least points. I generally don't care for Deviousness with Hag, for example, because I max it out nearly 100% of the time, so No One Escaped becomes kinda pointless.
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I would LOVE that.
It rewards Legion for playing the way they're supposed to play without encouraging just going for one survivor.
A dev should see this. I actually think it's a good simple way to buff them.
The only nitpick I have would be to cap the stun at a minimum of, idk, 1.5 second because of interactions with add-ons. But I love that.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/601681#Comment_601681
Even considering that, it's a terrible argument for why this exists.
It's not supposed to be an argument, it's supposed to be a joke. Sorry if it was bad.
I still think it's healthier to give killers more DC-compensating points though.
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@bkn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/601662#Comment_601662
I think you dont reply because you can´t give a proper answer... It doesnt make a difference who asks a certain question.
Why is the Nurse judged on her highest potential and survivors are not?
Do you want a fair game overall? Balance around competition...
Do you want a game that is artifically balanced for casual players? Balance around solo survivors...
If the Nurse gets nerfed you can basically just play the games intro in every trial because the game becomes like a interactive M1 movie...
Here's the thing.
I've said this before. Nurse won't be butchered. There is NO WAY her kit is anything below "absurdly strong" unless if they rework her from the ground up.
The only meaningful changes will be to her add-ons, which are overkill, even against SWF, if the Nurse player is at the highest level. A small nerf to her base kit, which probably won't happen anyway (they said "slight changes", it will probably be something to accomodate the new add-ons) will NOT put her below SWF in balance most likely. Thus balancing Nurse around the highest level, even the current highest level for survivors, is probably either power neutral or slight nerf-worthy.
Then you can just buff the other killers and buff solo survivor.
Secondarily, there is no way to nerf SWF meaningfully without 1. altering core mechanics, which will mess up EVERYTHING ELSE or 2. make SWF-specific changes, which will also mess up everything else because their code is disgustingly intertwined.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/601671#Comment_601671
Utilitarianism aims for the greatest net gain. One survivor gains 5000-7000 depending on how much they contributed to generator progress, minus the points for a final chase.
On the other hand one person loses all of their points which is almost guaranteed to be more than 7k if they are the third to last survivor, as well as the killer losing AT LEAST 1400 points, plus chasing and hitting points, and potentially hatch shutting points, as well as the 2500 no one survived bonus.
So it's overall a net loss, unless you're only counting "happiness" which is a pretty terrible measure when you're considering 2 people are gaining happiness by cheating another person and ruining their game. Which is one of the many reasons utilitarianism collapses quickly.
I mean, one person chose to sacrifice themselves for the last guy, so they don't really care about their points in that situation. Take them out of the equation.
I just feel like they should be able to sacrifice themselves for someone else if they wanted to. Put a larger DC compensation for the killer if that's the problem.
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Their data interprets DCs as kills.
It's not reliable in the slightest.
Until they start punishing DCs accordingly, we'll never have reliable stats for this game.
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@Tzeentchling9 said:
The number of people who didn't actually read the OP and just keep parroting the points covered in it is quite telling.
I mean, what OP is implying is pretty false. Things definitely don't need to change in any game to be perceived as too powerful over time. That's just not the nature of games like DBD.
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The utilitarian in me really finds it hard to get mad when that happens
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@Madjura said:
Your wish is granted, have some more extremely bright cosmetics that no one will use because P3 Claudette is darker
That is what you wanted right
Right
It's funny cause it's the truth
Let's also buff the trollest perk in the game (Head On) surely survivor lobbies will flood with people right
Not that I didn't like Head On being fixed but come on, that's not enough to make people play survivor over literally reworking a killer from the ground up and making a brand new kit for him
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/601586#Comment_601586
Why is Nurse judged and evaluated at her highest potential whereas survivors are not?
I was writing a long and convoluted reply but your posts are generally so trolly here I'm not gonna bother
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@bkn said:
The Nurse is the only skill-based killer, and nerfing just means hindering her and the player.
SWF´s with voice comms can still get the gens done and escape, i dont know where people see a problem actually.
Considering that one of the biggest complaints in the game is the gap between solo survivor play and SWF, I don't think it's healthy if you NEED to be a SWF to escape against the Nurse.
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@Ember_Hunter said:
New fresh things would also be nice for survivor game play :)
Yeah survivor gameplay has been pretty stale lately.
Even though I play a bit more killer, it would be nice to have new DECENT stuff to use as survivor. Not MoM levels obviously, but anything that deviates from the standard optimal build.
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Running and endgame build at a high level is already a bad idea on pretty much any killer, but ESPECIALLY on a killer who literally loses their ability in the endgame.
I feel like endgame builds in general are already a band-aid fix for when you're bad at other parts of the game and can't consistently apply pressure beforehand.
Come on, Freddy has a teleport. You don't need endgame crutches to perform with him.
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@Dabomb932 said:
while a lot of these ideas are kind of heavy, they are very easily workable. one thing i loved about old DBD before SWF was feeling like you were alone. even though four survivors were facing the same person as killer, each one had they’re own story of what happened that trial, and the only cooperating was if someone had kindred, and that was basically, “haha you’re closest, go unhook him.”. while some suggestions like them not being able to leave at the same time are similar to perks like blood warden, the nerfs like slower gen repairs i do really like. if these survivors get the added bonus of east cooperation, they should have to rely heavily on that to succeed.
This game's core identity nowadays is of an action game with horror elements, not a horror game.
Unfortunately those feelings don't come back. Even if SWF didn't exist, people would play efficiently anymore, and the fear factor would also have vanished.
I'd love to be able to play this game as a fresh experience again, too, and feel dread when trying to hide from Huntress while hearing her lullaby, or the first Hag/Myers jumpscare... But those days are long gone, and ain't coming back.
Even if SWF didn't exist, those feelings are but a memory.
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@IamFran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600819#Comment_600819
So Legion mains don't know what argument have to use for defending that unbalanced and badly designed mess which was Legion and the new argument is a massive conspiracy of experienced players who only want to please their youtube suscriptors, blaming about Legion... Ok...
Legion had the dubious honor of being designed considering the only the fun of playing him/her without considering the fun playing against him/her. The most unfun to play against for me, over the top, worse than Doctor or Hag, which is saying something.
DEFINITELY was the worst killer to go against.
Doctor is annoying, but is loopable. Nurse also doesn't have counterplay, but if she makes small mistakes at least you feel like you're an active part of the chase and not just a mob that the Legion player was farming.
Legion removed all skill from both sides, period. They ignored the game fundamentals in a way that not even the Nurse does, even if they were trash tier. Old Legion was the epitome of "I'm not winning, but you're not having fun either".
The worst thing that ever happened to this game, hands down.
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@Dehitay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600917#Comment_600917
The very first post in this thread has 5 possibilities that would reduce the impact of oppressive swf groups without affecting solo players, but just for the hell of it, I'll give even more cause the ideas aren't hard to come up with if you actually try to think of them instead of be close minded.
- Make only one instance of certain perks available amongst all players in an swf group. Obviously perks like WGLF should be available to everybody, but forcing variability in a number of the more potent perks like Balanced Landing and Self Care would reduce impact.
- After the game has loaded, show in the HUB which survivors are part of a swf group. This gives the killer a significant amount of info about what to look out for which is only fair considering the massive amount of info survivors get from voice communication.
- If one swf member disconnects or suicides, the hatch won't open if the last remaining survivor is also in the same swf group for a minute after they die.
You do know you're suggesting group-specific changes in DEAD BY DAYLIGHT right? The game that has a code so messed up that changes to, idk, how the grass rustles makes a perk boost your action speed for everything?
Keep it realistic, please.
I'm not even sure killers should know who's in a group. Our community isn't mature enough for that.
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@Dehitay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600928#Comment_600928
That has nothing to do with SWF and everything to do with how much power a lone survivor has over the majority of killers with how long they can loop them. That's an entirely different problem, but also one that needs to be solved, just like hard camping, gen rushing, tunneling, and intentionally disconnecting.
You do know that identifying problematic structures and knowing when to give up chases is part of being a good killer right?
Not saying there aren't BS tiles and maps, but people blow that WAY out of proportion.
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I'd be fine with either.
Freddy rework is a good example of a strong killer that's 115%. Not as strong as Billy, obviously, but still high mid tier.
However, I feel like we're only getting a new top tier if it's a 110% killer with a very strong ability.
For variety's sake, I'd take another 110%. I do think they're afraid of making a killer as strong as Spirit again though.
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You do have to keep one thing in mind though.
The devs recently worked on Legion quite a bit already, and many other killers need some love too.
Your main isn't more important than anyone else's.
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By the way, I had really low expectations for how confusing the lullaby would be, but the devs did an amazing job.
Many survivors got confused while playing against me as Freddy and it made it a lot easier to hit them while they're asleep.
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@ArecBalrin said:
You draw dividing lines when it suits you Gardenia.
Can't balance individual survivors swiftly because of the dynamic between them. Killer can be balanced in multiple knee-jerk ways though, because there is of course no dynamic between the killer and the four other players in the game.
OK I'll bite
tell me how to """balance""" SWF without making the game even more miserable for solo survivors in an easy way. I'll wait.
It has to be a fix as easy as tweaking a killer btw.
And it can't make the solo survivor experience worse.
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I feel like Purple Ranks are the optimal range of fun in this game.
You can run pretty much any killer you want and still have a fighting chance.
You can play not super tryhard as survivor and even meme a bit and not get too screwed over
The game is overall more relaxing and less punishing
DBD is probably the only game I play where I feel bad ranking up tbh
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@Talmeer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600617#Comment_600617
sighs there was more counterplay.
The way how you argue shows that you event don't know what is was, but as said before, I don't see a point in writing now a tutorial for it, because I know, you will find some short words as excusment why you have not read that tutorial, or why that can't be the truth, even if it got written by pre Legion main - aka. the person who should know its best, since mains spent the most time with their favorite character.
Think, what you want, but this mindset will you always lead to killers that are op for you.
Actually I've probably heard all that """"counterplay""""" before, so don't even bother. I know it'll be bs
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600611#Comment_600611
I still think 3 blinks will be an ultra rare add-on for Nurse. Not saying it should, but I have a feeling that one of her pink add-ons is gonna add an extra blink.
If Nurse is allowed to be BS with pink+purple add-on, I'm kinda fine with that.
I mean, Iri Head exists lol
As long as she's not BS with green+yellow anymore I'm fine
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@Talmeer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600608#Comment_600608
1-The Legion had counterplay, but I will not waste any words here to that, if not absolutly necessary, because of what I said before.
2-The Legion had need not more or less skill, as any other character in the game.
If you really like to show skill, start watching counterplay videos to the killers you have a problem with. That would be the first step to show skill.
Besides that, dbd is not Stacract Broodwar, it is also not Counter Strike, or Battlefield. Dbd is a game that has a easy learning curve in some way.
You just need to spent enough time with your favorite character and you are good enough for the most situations and that is good. I don't need the time back, where I needed to play 8h+/day to be good enough to play with someone that calls himself a "pro", nor I would have today the time for it.
Dbd has its errors, but the learning curve is it definitely not.
STAB STAB STAB STAB STAB
cooldown
STAB STAB STAB STAB STAB
the counterplay was hoping the Legion player was bad enough to miss the attack several times and wait for the power to run out
and he could just do it again so it wasn't really counterplay
but surely, you're right. Sorry.
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@Mc_Harty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600608#Comment_600608
I'll toast a scotch in your honour once 3 blink Nurses are ######### buried.
YES
The day when people who put extra blink + greek range and think they're the ######### will need to learn the game to get to red ranks
That will be THE day.
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@Talmeer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600554#Comment_600554
1-The Legion was one of the few good designs in dbd. A good design is not copy&paste from one character to another (looking at you m1 killers, basicly) and a good design let you choose how you want to play your character.
Further then that, its design introduce thes archtype of a fast stabbing killer into dbd. Something the game hasen't before and that was something that has also many people join the dbd community (me included). The Legion advertisment video had exactly promiset what many people had look for.
2-Surviors tend to say that we killers should look at the things differently. That is a legit argument. The thing is... Survivors prove always that they can't do the same in return.
If the Legion was so unhealthy to the game, why I had in my endgame chats people that had thank me for a challenging game? Why was the Legion the only reason to buy dbd?
That sounds for me pretty healthy^^.
Imo, the survivors in the forums have just their personal hatred. You see it even on the arguments. Mostly they start then to talk about exploits, or no counterplay, aka. they forget that also survivors had play with exploits and they resist to read tutorials, or watch videos that could help them.
In every other game, that behavior would not even worth mentioning besides a "rofl", but here it leads to nerfs :|.
The truth is, while many people accept that the Legion had darker sites, some people are not be able to see the other site. The site were people have enjoy playing the Legion and playing against the Legion.
Besides, I have seen in the Legion and Nurse nerf threads a behavior what I really find disgusting.
It is ok to be pro nerf for Legion, or Nurse, or to be against it... We all have our opinions, but... To go then in a thread and celebrate the nerf, just to put more salt in the wounds of the playerbase that has now to struggle with the nerfs and has lost more interest in the game they had like to play?
No thanks... I have never post in a survivor/perk nerf thread and I will for sure not celebrate if surviovrs got nerfed. Not important if we talk then about a nerf I can understand for them, or not.
My experience with survivors is totally different when I look at the game and then in the forums and I at least can see the difference.
Why survivors see always and only the exploiting killers, or op addon using killers? I don't get it.
Dude, the overwhelming opinion of the community was that Legion was unhealthy. What you present is anecdotal.
Erasing individual skill from the game is unhealthy. Being literally unable to lose chases is unhealthy.
A chase is an interaction between two players. When that interaction becomes essentially a PVE game (because Legion required no skill to win chases) it's bad design.
Also, I celebrate whenever I think the game is going to a good place balance wise. I celebrated the hell out of MoM and DS nerfs for example. I want the game to be good, I'm happy when things that will make the game better happen.
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@DrDeepwound said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600583#Comment_600583
This is called semantics, when debating on forums.
I mean, I think it's pretty clear to people who understand words that OP = too strong.
The subjective part is what you define as too strong.
Thinking anything isn't too strong just because you have to lEarN it first is pretty questionable. That's not how game balance works.
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@Dehitay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600377#Comment_600377
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600415#Comment_600415
So I assume both of you are upset that they're "punishing" the nurse for building up skill. Well, either that or the much more likely possibility that you're massively biased hypocrites.
So every time you nerf something that's remotely hard to play in any game you're punishing people for getting skilled?
That's a very pretty false equivalence you're defending there.
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Doctor can be weak AND have stupid stuff in his kit at the same time guys.
Since he's getting revisited, some fixes AND buffs would be good.
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@DrDeepwound said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600570#Comment_600570
Overpowered and broken can be the same thing but "broken" is just a term used on the forums, Overpowered has been used in game design for at least 20 years LOL People use the term "broken" when they mean OP.
Yes, but it's a pretty innacurate use.
People I know in game design use the term broken to define something that breaks a game's mechanics, period. It can be something that's so strong or automatic that automatically wins a game, something that literally crashes the game, etc.
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@Jdsgames said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600542#Comment_600542
See, you are facing an inexperienced killer in terms of balance.
New Killer ---------------------- Average Killer -------------------------------- High Tier Killer
New Survivor ------------------- Average Survivor ------------------------------ High Tier Survivor
^ Any new Killer can beat new Survivors. Again they are both new and will make tons of mistakes. A baby nurse, however, is not only a new killer. However, the mechanics of nurse are muscle memory. Even High Tier killers struggle with nurse simply because they don't use the power enough to get the Time/Distance ratio down.
However, generally when you say survivors can bully nurses they can bully any low tier killer. Anyone with more experience in the game than the killer knows certain loop combinations and rotations of loops to get the best yield.
However, once you come to high tier play this is all thrown out the window by the mechanics of the nurse.
Walls forget about them, Pallets see what happens, Mind Games I will use my second blink. The fact of this matter is in many cases Nurse has too much map pressure and chase potential considering she can cover large distances at a time. "Oh but they nerfed her base speed to be super slow" Well that is amazing and all but doesn't help when she uses her blinks for movement now don't ya think?
Generally speaking the only times I have lost using nurse and I mean <2k was when the map design had dead zones where you actually couldn't blink or it would assume a short blink. This does not make nurse balanced. If they didn't exist I would have went on my merry way. Almost like perk and bug exploits. Just because you know how to use them doesn't mean they should exist.
"A good survivor can..." - Yes, generally can get an additional fatigue in here or there if the Nurse happens to make a dumb mistake or collision decides to be wonky as usual or attacking bugs out. However, if you for some odd reason are being beaten at any point you can resort to slugging or hard-core 3 genning. Which again due to the insane map pressure and distance you can cover. This is not the hardest thing to do in the game.
However, just because you don't have a muscle memory time/distance down for the killer doesn't mean those who do have any skill. As I keep saying you can't skill a straight line. It is similar to riding a bike or walking once you get it down it is down. You struggle at first because it is new and it is nothing more. Skill is mind-game ability and being able to outsmart the survivor. You don't outsmart when no matter the distance or location you will catch them.
The analogy between learning the Nurse and learning to ride a bike made my day because of how accurate it is, after thinking about it a bit. Thank you <3
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@DocOctober said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600557#Comment_600557
Hey, just a heads up.
I don't give a damn. I'll argue definitions all day long if you want to.
Overpowered may have had a distinction to broken, but not necessarily anymore these days.
Even going by your definition, base-kit Nurse is not OP, unlike what people like Thaznar try to lobby for.
I'd argue that OP and Broken used to have a lot less distinction back in the day, but nowadays, with how widespread discussions on game design and balanced are, they both are very different things.
But OK then, you do you. Keep being angry as a hobby
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@DocOctober said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600522#Comment_600522
You are arguing semantics.
The terms "overpowered" and "broken" are defined as things that are so strong, that you will win with them, no matter your personal skill level.
You cannot argue definitions, no matter how deep you dive into those personal anecdotes you like to share.
The Nurse is by definition neither OP nor broken. She is generally one of the weaker Killers in terms of kill rate across all ranks. If she were OP or broken, she would have the highest kill rate across all ranks.
Generally, any Killer wipes the floor with Rank 20s, that's just how the game is, however, we've all heard of the baby Nurse, that even Rank 20s can bully. That wouldn't be a thing if she were OP.
Hey, just a heads up
What you defined: Broken
The only thing OP actually means: more powerful than it should be (you do know that OP literally means "overpowered", right? And nothing else. So it's a subjective term at heart).
The Nurse is not broken, but she's OP.
You're the one that should stop arguing definitions when you don't know what those definitions are. Careful with that!
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@MegMain98 said:
@gantes True...a small change will not hurt the Nurse’s base kit. It is already super strong. If it is indeed a small change, she will still be super strong.
They haven’t mentioned changing Spirit but she is the next strongest killer people complain about. I am doubtful anything will happen to her to be honest, just sick of hearing bitching over and over again.
Old Legion was a curse...Legion overall is an AWFULLY designed killer. Never should’ve seen the light of day.
Exactly.
And the devs already said they ain't planning on changing Spirit. As much as I wish she had more chase counterplay, she doesn't NEED nerfs and she doesn't compare to the Nurse in terms of overall power (Nurse lacks counterplay AND has better map pressure AND ends chases faster AND her power has no cooldown).
I wouldn't worry about base Spirit. I wouldn't worry about anything other than Prayer Beads really, that's the only thing I see seeing actually nerfed.
Legion is such a bad design it hurts. This killer was always bad if you didn't cheese the chases. Hell, they were even worse. (I do count the previous deep wound reducing timer on hit mechanic as cheese because it required no skill and I doubt they saw through all the consequences that design had when they made the killer). It's sad that they need to be held down to not be unhealthy, but I honestly prefer Legion to be bad than to ruin everyone's experience like before.
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@KaoMinerva said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/600440#Comment_600440
Didn't they say that with legion? Didn't they say the ghostface changes were small?
The GF changes were, indeed, small. If you can't play him right now it's on you.
Legion is a completely different story. If they said the changes were small, they were mistaken. On the other hand, people conveniently like to ignore that the Legion changes were overall power positive when compared to the way the killer was MEANT to be played anyway. You know, without cheesing game mechanics to win chases every single time.
I do think Legion needs a complete overhaul to be both good and healthy, but I can't take anyone who thinks old Legion was healthy for the game seriously.
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Stop with the false argument that "if she was broken she'd stomp at low ranks".
That's not how balance works.
Starting from the premise that balance should be made at the highest level, it matters very little how bad Nurses perform. The absolute best Nurses matter when talking about balance.
And no, hours spent playing her shouldn't allow her to become broken. Someone who took the time to master her should NOT always win, especially against people with the same time played as survivor.
I sure hope the balance team doesn't have people who think like that, because it's TERRIBLE design. Can you imagine how hellish every single moba would be if characters with high skill ceilings were allowed to win every time? Hell, in competitive games, something with a 60% win rate is already a major red flag. Surely we can't trust the stats from DBD because of DCs, but S T O P arguing that a 77% kill rate would be OK. Because it wouldn't.
"Let's just learn this thing so I can't lose anymore!!!!" Ffs