gantes
gantes
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@martin27 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/589308#Comment_589308
If there was no counter play the devs would do something about. The problem becomes "how willing are the players to learn the counter play?" I couldn't figure out the counter play to looping and said i think it needs to be less effective. Then a survivor told me how i was wrong and told me how to counter it. Now i'm back in the game at purple ranks
Please don't use this argument.
You can't say people "can't be bothered to learn" when you're talking about people consistently at red ranks and playing this game for years and expect it to stick.
I got to purple ranks and above too when I learned to counter looping, because it's a pretty basic skill. People sitting on red ranks for years still get cucked by moris or omegablink Nurse.
And no, the devs wouldn't do something if it had no counterplay, because their balance, as much as it's been getting better, is still far from perfect and there's still busted stuff in the game.
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OK, here's the thing.
Forcing people to avoid interaction is poor game design.
Especially in a game like DBD, where the action part is the most fun for the overwhelming majority of players.
It's OK to like stealth, it's not OK to force people to play immersed because they're going up against something overpowered/with no counterplay when the killer actually finds you.
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Have you stopped to think that if they deviate TOO MUCH we'll have an even more unbalanced mess?
Killers have to obey certain design thresholds to be healthy. When you deviate too much from that, you have abominations such as release Legion. And Nurse comes close in terms of breaking game mechanics too, she's probably the limit of what they can do without destroying the game completely.
They are very creative inside of what can be done while keeping the game healthy.
And comparing Hag, Trapper and Freddy in terms of traps, just as comparing Spirit and Wraith in terms of invisibility, REALLY takes away from your point.
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@WhoDatNinja said:
No rework for gens should be done on any map. All maps are different so lets keep it the way it is. Every map shouldn't be easy for killers. Killers just need to get better and stop whining.
@WhoDatNinja said:
Why are y'all killers complaing on large maps and gens being "too" spaced out. Stop your whining. Learn how to be a good killer. Killer is so easy to get a 4k and im a survivor main. If all gens were close to each other then survivors would never escape. Bad enough killers are faster and keep getting buffed and can shut hatches now your gonna complain about gens being too far? Ridiculous.
Spotted the wild rank 20
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Balanced Landing: opens potential infinites. Also strong by itself at creating safe zones.
Dead Hard: bad players faceplant into walls. Good players reach another safe pallet with the dash distance and extend the chase by a lot. There's a reason why it's the most used exhaustion perk at high ranks.
Sprint Burst and Lithe aren't as good, but can still gain you time. And Adrenaline is VERY good.
Head On is a meme but a very good one.
There's absolutely no reason whatsoever for survivors to be able to use any of these perks twice in a chase, especially DH. You could, instead, talk about buffing other, significantly worse survivor perks to give survivors a reason not to run exhaustion+Adrenaline+DS/Iron Will/BT/the occasional Unbreakable.
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@Horus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/583529#Comment_583529
That probably explains why flashlight arent good
I mean, something as impactful as removing someone from the killer's shoulder after they went down SHOULD be hard to achieve.
I believe flashlight saves are in a good spot now. Hard to pull off, counterable and reward skill.
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BTW people defending this huge ass map or saying 'git gud' should be locked in a basement and forced to play 10 games of Huntress a day on maps of this size for a month.
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No map should be allowed to be that big.
It's amazing how many problem maps in this game could be fixed by shrinking or decluttering or both.
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laughing so hard here, as always
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Absolutely nothing is scary after you spend 100+ hours playing, and if it is, it'll sorely lack in other aspects to keep people coming back.
The action aspects are what keeps the playerbase alive in this game. People come for the horror and stay for the action.
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Hex: Denial
Every time you bring up how obviously bad a killer is, 1/2/3 of the 5 mains the killer has across the entire playerbase will jump out of a locker and DESTROY you with FACTS and LOGIC about how they're actually good because you can 4K against stupid survivors using them.
This effect persists until the devs rework that piece of garbage.
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Oh god, it's this guy again.
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Since my idea of having fun doesn't involve making other people miserable, I do neither. But you guys do you.
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I only use it for dailies and tbh mori dailies shoud not even be a thing.
Ebony guarantees you kill everyone as long as you don't play like a potato. It has no place in the game.
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For most M1 killers it's Enduring+Spirit Fury
For Huntress, Nurse's is essential
Spirit benefits from Nurse's and Sloppy because you have to heal against her
Nurse can run whatever she wants
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@thesuicidefox besides, dude, here's the thing. You're claiming to have knowledge that people here don't. A lot of people play Nurse and Spirit (mostly Nurse) and roflstomp everything and everyone on stream. I've never seen any of these players get countered in chases consistently. If you have the knowledge and skill that people in red ranks and veterans in this game do, everyone would appreciate if you recorded yourself doing it consistently. People learn, everybody wins.
If you're just going to theorycraft, it doesn't help anyone.
It's exactly the same thing as people who claim every killer is rank 1 viable but show nothing. You're not helping anyone.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/577106#Comment_577106
I could literally make the same demand.
Until someone can provide video proof that these killers are overpowered, where they just absolutely dominate every survivor in every game, then it's just theory crafting.
The only things I would say need fixing for Nurse, Spirit, and Billy are their add-ons. Multi-blink/Prayer Beads need to be changed, and Billy's add-ons should be higher rarity or something (this was something I agreed with on Scott's video). But at base, I don't believe these killers are overpowered or uncounterable. Strong? Yes. Can't be countered? No.
I mean, when the player legit master them, there are plenty of videos of no one being able to counter anything so
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People saying no are the same people that complain SWF has too much information but propose nothing to improve that.
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The whole totem system could use a rework.
Better hiding, maybe more totems, totem counter for all survivors.
People can either spend more time off gens or risk NOED. I think it should have been implemented a long time ago.
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Anecdotal evidence is just anecdotal until there's footage and it's consistent, and this seems like a hard concept to grasp in these forums.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/576586#Comment_576586
Maybe because I just don't buy into this idea that Spirit has no counter play. She definitely does. It's just every time someone makes a point about some counter play you just go "BLARG that's not real counter play". It's like those anti-vaxxers that just ignore plain evidence right in front of them. Let's go down the list...
1) Stealth. Yes it's a counter play option. You basically play cautiously and hide when the killer is near and/or move to a new location if the killer is looking for you. You always make a point that you can't stealth and do gens, which is false. You totally can, it's just that when you are doing a gen and you hear the killer coming you leave. You don't wait around the gen or do anything to draw attention to yourself. You just leave. Find another gen and work on that while the killer wastes time looking around the other gen for you. It's not optimal, I will agree to that, but you definitely can do gens and hide from the killer. It seems to me that your idea of stealth is just hiding in a locker or on the edge of the map doing nothing. Yea that's stealth, but its not PRODUCTIVE stealth.
2) Iron Will and Spine Chill. "OMG perks as counters" yea well here is the thing. THEY EXIST. You can't just look at things in a bubble and pretend that everyone plays perkless. Perks exist in the game and therefore you have to consider them when talking counter play. True it may be more difficult to counter play Spirit without these perks, but when you DO have these perks it makes a very VERY huge difference. I know, I use them both all the time. They are both very effective against many killers. When I get a Spirit I tend to not even have trouble with her because of these perks. It helps me stealth her AND it helps in a chase. I get Spirits, GOOD Spirits, to waste a lot of time on me, usually even escaping the chase. You can sit there and say "perks are not counter play" until you are blue in the face but until the devs introduce a perkless mode that's not a valid argument. It's like, I could argue that Hag has no counter play if you don't use Urban Evasion and a flashlight, but that's not true either is it? And even though Hag is a very strong killer, if you have UE and a flashlight it will be a cake walk.
3) Windows. Windows are very strong against the Spirit because she can't vault while phasing. So long as you don't do anything super predictable, you can use the window to get her to waste her phase walk and keep the chase going. You vault a window in the right spot now she has to go around and by the time she gets to the other side her power is gone. I'm sure you will make a point about how this isn't counter play either, but it very much is. I generally ignore pallets and just go for windows against the Spirit, and it works. With or without my perks it works. You just have to use the unpredictably, as running straight for a window, making it obvious you will vault, isn't going to work.
4) Unpredictability and reading skills. If you act in unpredictable ways then it will be a lot hard for the Spirit to catch you. She will be constantly coming out of phase walk at the wrong time, or missing a juke and then wasting her power. And if you can read your opponent, ie. predict what they are going to do, then you can act even more unpredictably. Doing weird stuff that wouldn't make sense against any other killer in a chase will throw off the Spirit player and give you more distance in a chase. Knowing what she is thinking and acting on that prediction will allow you to avoid getting hit out of phase walk.
My point here is that Spirit can be counter played, it's just none of these counter play options seem to be good enough for you. I don't know what kind of counter play you expect to have, but as someone that generally does not have a problem playing against Spirit (at rank 1 surv against good Spirit players, and as a rank 1 Spirit player) I can tell you she indeed does have counter play. It's just most people lack the skills necessary to really do it, particularly when it comes to #4. And refusing to use perks to counter a killer does not mean the killer has no counter play. It just means you refuse to engage in that counter play.
Just like the Nurse situation, I'd love to see footage of a top level Spirit being consistently countered in chases.
Until I do, theorycrafting is just theorycrafting.
Stealth isn't counterplay IN CHASES. A great Spirit can be beaten depending on the level of the team and the size of the map, but she has no counterplay in chases. Not until I see it being consistently done.
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@ShyN3ko said:
Daily or too see the awesome Memento Mori Animations.
This is my opinion, but I think we need more kill animations ingame.
Definitely.
Some animations are so cool. I'd love to see more in a non scummy way, especially when I'm playing Hag.
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@miaasma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/576607#Comment_576607
typing tons of text doesn't mean you have anything of value to say
people have brought plenty of counter arguments to your attention, including myself, but it's been shown to be completely ineffective, so why should anyone bother? you aren't entitled to others' consideration if you cannot address what they say
It seems like a trend in these forums tbh. People post obvious bait/previously defeated arguments that no one can be bothered to answer anymore and then get mad when people don't engage on yet another pointless discussion.
Oh well.
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I only use moris to do dailies tbh.
It's the same reasoning behind never using instaheals as survivor for me: after you play the other side, you see how ######### these things are to go against. and I'd rather not make anyone else's experience in the game miserable.
I do think both of these are seen rarely enough to warrant not being in the highest priority list for changes tho.
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@Acromio said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/576010#Comment_576010
Funny, I could say the same thing about you.
Except you'd be objectively wrong.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/576149#Comment_576149
You completely misread what I meant but that is maybe cause I was still drunk when I wrote it. I think adressing what he did and the way he did it, is rather bad as it just adresses survivor complaints who seem to me lack all knowledge of nurse. There are other nasty combinations right now and those will simply replace the addons people complain about now if they are left ignored.
Addons should have some reason as to why a killer would want to a) buy them and b) use them. I don't see range addons with the proposed change being something that is to be desired at all because a lowered travel time will result in a miss no matter what. I dont want to see stupid status effects applied that nobody wants as they are just meh. Sorry i want viable addons in the game and not more stuff i can waste bp on.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/576156#Comment_576156
Nah you confuse me with yourself because I actually argue with people.
You are the person that just drops oneliners and snappy comments without bringing arguments in every thread regarding nurse. Oh and other threads where it is about swf which play optimal and what could be done, you make such "great" contributions as and i literally quote "no".
I've already talked a lot about this argument that "people lack all knowledge of Nurse" and few things annoy me more in these discussions. I see that thrown around here a lot, but it's never along with anything that actually explains that magic, hidden knowledge Nurse players have about the character that other people who have been playing this game for literal years don't. So please, when you drop something like that, explain what you mean.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/576195#Comment_576195
Well think about it this way... if she has no collision she can just run ahead of you to the pallet and come from the other direction. Whereas with collision she either has to come from behind (which is predictable) or she has to go all the way around to the other side of the pallet, which is slower and gives the survivor an opportunity to take another path (if they predict it).
That's what I would do. I'd just run through people and attack as they run into me, and they have no way to really tell what direction I'm going. It's not that hard to realize "oh this survivor turned around" mid-phase just using sound cues.
Point is, I don't think this would have the result you guys are looking for.
What I would say is adjust the way her hitbox works coming out of phase so that's it's more strict. That way you have to be a lot more exact with your post-phase walk attack. I think that would have a much better result because it makes phase attacks more skillful compared to a normal attack.
If you are survivor against a Spirit and you suddenly find yourself bumping into her, that's your cue to get squirrelly with your movements. I rarely find people because they run into me and I didn't know it. Most of the time I knew where they were and I used my collision to block them from a window or something on purpose.
If you're a Spirit and you bump into a survivor, you get a free hit. That's the difference.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/576070#Comment_576070
Yea but you can use the collision to your advantage as survivor too, did you watch the clip? Having collision means she can be body blocked. It also means that you can bait her to pass through a pallet and then hit her with the pallet before she can react.
There are upsides and downsides to both, and I think it would be more detrimental if there was no collision mainly because then you wouldn't be able to do stuff like we did in the clip. She would have just flew right past all of us and got Dwight.
From my experience playing Spirit (and I play her quite a bit) collision during phasewalk is a godsend to her. Especially when people are running Iron Will.
I get that you can do some cool plays as survivors in specific scenarios, but having collision benefits the Spirit player way less situationally.
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My take on the Pig stuff: yes, her power was designed to be RNG. RNG is fine-ish in most instances in this game, but not as an entire killer power. She needs SOME consistency.
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Dude, it's the second time I see you make an obvious bait/extremely uninformed and innacurate post and then get pissed because people won't respond properly.
BTW it's not a free kill when you already failed to do all the gens. It's a deserved kill. And you have the chance to take that deserved kill away because it's really dull gameplay when there's literally nothing you can do to escape, so that's fine. But end game absolutely SHOULD be killer favored.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Yea the nurse changes seem to me like someone who has no clue about nurse.
Maybe we can throw in blindness and hemorraghe (whatever i am drunk idc). Sorry that is just proof to 0 knowledge on the killer. Yeah the choice after those changes will be pretty clear and i doubt survivors will like it one bit. But whatever preach to the "nerf"choir.
The changes to nurse are so blatant and obvious and the bias is too. Spirit "no more collision" nerfing prayer-beads, while another addon remains untoched because reasons. I am glad that nobody thinks of even adding a little downside to that but hey at least nerf several blinks and omeganurse.
I mean, from your comment it just seems like you're blindly defending the Nurse without arguing why multi blinks or absurd range are healthy.
You can say whatever you want that he wants those nerfs because "he has no clue about nurse", but nerfing multi blinks and range are pretty much consensus in the community. Even most (good) Nurse players I talked to agree that those add-ons are BS. But if you want her add-ons to remain the same and have a couple overpowered options while everything else just sucks, fine.
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@Acromio said:
Who?
I've been in these forums for the longest time and I'm still waiting to see a constructive post of yours.
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@katoptris said:
Different groans I feel weird running Jeff or even Jane only cause their groan sound so load to me
Don't get me started on the Jane noises.
She doesn't sound like she's hurt when she's, well, hurt. It seems like... something else.
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Sometimes stuff in videogames matches their visuals and it's a beautiful thing when it happens.
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@Ihatelife didn't he say at the end of the video that he the fixes he sees being possible with Legion are "too much to fit here" or something?
And I definitely agree, there's not an easy fix for Legion.
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@TAG said:
The one thing that I am confused with is his proposal for Leatherface changes. Can someone ELI5 to me how this would improve Bubba?
Beyond that, I think I like the majority of these changes?
I think the reasoning is to at least make him as effective as Billy up close, because he manages to be worse up close and have no pressure at the same time.
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If block add-ons stop being meme tier before live I'm good tbh
I mean, he won't be a GREAT killer, but besides Nurse and Spirit who is really. He'll be fine.
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@[Deleted User] said:
@gantes you’re just being intentionally offensive
I'm most definitely not, unless DBD Freddy has feelings that are being hurt by my comments,.
All I'm saying is that it's hard to get results with him because he's bad. The same applies to Bubba, Doctor or Trapper. You have to work a lot harder with them at red ranks than Nurse or Spirit, but it's not because their skill ceiling is high, it's because they suck when compared to actually good killers.
The same is true for Freddy. He has just as much as a ceiling as any other M1 killer. He's hard to get results with because he's bad, not because he's hard to play.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/560508#Comment_560508
Woah @gantes
You’re treading dangerous waters now.
Against good, experienced survivors, ESPECIALLY SWF, Freddy has to work EXTREMELY hard and CONSTANTLY make good judgement calls on chase/looping abandonment in order to frequently keep survivors under the Dream Demon penalties OR intentionally engineer high volumes of failed SC so that the survivors themselves are creating their own pressure.
To suggest that this take little to no skill is thoroughly offensive.
If it were easy to grasp how to do this effectively we’d see more players using Freddy, AND so few of them would get as seriously stomped as a lot of them do trying to wrap their head around using him.
He's hard to get results with because he's bad, not because his kit is hard to learn.
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I really like the option to down vote.
It was an easy way of saying "I don't like you or your opinions and I'm petty so I'm going to downvote your posts no matter the content."
And that's why we can't have nice things.
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Can we please just kill this discussion already
The devs already stated the ranked system is gonna change to compare killers to themselves and not killers in general. You can either wait or keep whining about a bad ranking system in a game where ranks mean very little AND said system is getting an overhaul soon which is even more important
This whole thread is just a big pity party
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@razaluna said:
how bout this, huntress lullaby always has a random time between the ping and the skill check coming up, and the tokens add an additional .5/1/2 % increase to failed skill checks capping at 5 tokens.
I think buffs would be nice, but for starters I think it'd be enough to only light the totem up when the perk is actually working.
Huntress Lullaby is nowhere near as powerful enough to warrant warning survivors before the perk actually does anything.
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Do you really feel like GFs design promotes any more camping or tunneling than your average killer? I honestly don't think so.
He's not even particularly good at camping. He can't really expose people if he's camping. Good campers are the killers who can down rescuers fast imo.
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@Kilmeran said:
Good to see a lot of other chill players in DBD. Sometimes, these forums make it feel like the players all treat DBD like they're in the Overwatch League.
I feel like DBD is just an objectively more fun game for both sides at a mid to high level instead of a top level.
At least I have a lot more fun being able to play all killers or doing stuff other than holding M1 at gens as survivor.
High green to purple ranks are the most fun ranks to be imo.
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I play to chill mostly.
When I'm trying to pip as killer I just spam Hag/Huntress/Spirit, but I do admit I feel a lot more comfortable staying at purple ranks and memeing around with all killers.
As survivor I like trying goofy builds. Especially involving Head On (but my favorite is still the magic trick build with Lithe/Q&Q/Dance With Me). I rarely play solo and mostly play with my bf but we both just play for fun and mock/ocasionally sandbag each other.
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Imagine thinking the GhostFace "leak" wasn't an extremely smart publicity stunt
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There's an argument to be made that at 5 stacks, people need to pay more attention to gen repairing because of skill checks and it takes a toll on other aspects of their performance, but at least personally I don't see this happening.
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@Orion said:
It makes sense. When you hear the cue, you know you have a certain time to focus on the screen and find the skill check. When that time is gone, you just pay attention all the time. It's the same logic behind how safety features can make you less safe.
Yep. At least in my case, coming from fighting games/platformers has trained me to use audio cues for a lot of things. If you're conditioned to rely on something's sound to answer to it, any small change to it can really mess you up.
Especially considering the overwhelming majority of seasoned players already use sounds for basically everything in this game (when they work lol)
Huntress Lullaby could use some changes in the future, and if they look into it I hope they consider this.
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Always always always have a Windstorm. It gives him map pressure, one of the most important things in the game to have as a killer.
For secondary add-ons, I'd run Swift Hunt.
Other than that, the silent Wraith build with Coxcombed and Ghost can be very scary in closed maps like The Game or Lery's, but Windstorm with Swift Hunt can be good in every map.
Other add-ons are okay and fun but the two builds I mentioned are the strongest without a doubt.
For perks, optimally you need to have Enduring, Spirit Fury and Ruin always. For the fourth slot I alternate between BBQ and Save the best for last.
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/560508#Comment_560508
If this is the bar, then any number of things would need to be removed or reworked -- Hex: Ruin, Overcharge, Corrupt Intervention, Thrilling Tremors, Deerstalker, Doctor in general, Pig in general, slugging in general. Most of those mechanics have some form of counterplay, as does Freddy's sleep state (fail a skill check or get woken up by a teammate).
The bigger issue is that -- by design -- it is always in the killer's best interests to draw out the game, because time is never on their side.
Pig and Doctor have interactiveness on their game delay. Removing Pig's trap is probably the most fun part about facing her, and Doctor... Well, not so much for snapping out of it, but at least it's a series of skill checks and he needs more than right click you to delay the game.
Overcharge doesn't really work against good survivors other than specific builds. Ruin is universal pressure and can be cleansed, and hitting greats is somewhat skillful counterplay. Thrilling Tremors does almost nothing to delay the game, it has a lot more to do with the information you gain. Deerstalker is for slugging builds, which have a lot more to do with pressure than anything else.
None of those you mentioned is a slow down action speed for free that you get by right clicking someone. Slowing down action speed classically doesn't promote good gameplay, they've mentioned how they feel about that multiple times. Having a killer's entire design promote ######### gameplay - unlike a specific perk or add-on doing so - isn't a good thing.
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@GrootDude said:
@gantes Some of us knew how to use his power to stall the game, even a high ranks.
Tell me how a power that's designed EXCLUSIVELY to make the game longer with little to no skill expression or interactiveness is good for the game.