gantes
gantes
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@JC316 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/924035#Comment_924035
I don't mind an action filled game either, I enjoy the chases and the mindgames. The problem is that people don't want action, they want a bully simulator.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/924964#Comment_924964
Fine under normal circumstances, but not when used by survivors that are trolling. I get the feeling you're one of these bullies and don't want your "fun" affected.
The only time BT has come into play before the gates were open was because of auto aim screwing up. Once the doors are open, I am 100% entitled to keep a kill that I earned, not have a survivor walk right up without consequence and steal it. That's the whole point of tunneling before the gates are open, ensuring that BT or DS won't come into play and cost you a sacrifice.
I've never said that toolboxes or medkits are OP. Lights aren't OP either, EXCEPT when they can blind outside of FOV. That doesn't even make logical sense, if you can't see something, it can't blind you.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/925102#Comment_925102
Yep, I'm not above dishing out the same abuse that I get. In my experience, 85% of survivors behave in a toxic manner, so I chalk it up to punishment for something they got away with earlier. I play survivor a lot actually, it's stupid easy compared to killer.
I did point my face at a wall, still got blinded, hence the rage.
Dude, honestly what makes you think you're entitled to a kill in the endgame after you didn't kill anyone else before? You allowed the survivors to complete their objective. Now earn that kill or have a 0k.
Just as much as you're allowed to 4k sometimes, survivors are allowed to have a 4-man escape sometimes too. That's the way it goes.
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Honestly I still think some sort of universal map pressure for killers and then balancing the game from that would be ideal.
But no, increasing gen times is not a good idea. Making players' experience less fun is never good game design. I'd definitely take a new objective over that, but I still think gen speed is less of a problem than weak killers or bad maps.
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Yes, you are obviously overreacting. They're not gonna nerf what's literally the least popular killer in the game.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/924812#Comment_924812
I can tell that certain players want to be able to use this perk more reliably. I think that's a bad idea given the current balance state.
I don't think that's gonna happen though. I doubt they'll buff it any more than they did by buffing protection hits (which was OK because protection hits were, and still are very inconsistent).
Right now it's anything but overbearing. Not only is it difficult and time consuming to activate, it's extremely obvious for the killer that you're trying to stack it. You're probably helping the killer by running it on most scenarios.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
Neither of them should exist in this current version of DbD. If killers were a lot stronger by default, then I might consider them acceptable perks.
But for now they shouldn't have any role in the meta. Killers already have enough to deal with.
On a side note, I would be fine with DS if they nerfed it somewhat. You should lose DS if you get fully healed, unhook a survivor, or touch a generator. I'm still on the fence about locker protection.
How is MoM anywhere near overbearing unless the survivors are running godly medkits or instaheals? The amount of time you waste trying to get the perk to work nullifies its benefit pretty much
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@SnakeSound222 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/924556#Comment_924556
Oh yes it is. With DS, you can do practically anything without fear of being hooked. Found a Survivor in a locker near a gen? Surprise! They're the DS user. Survivors rushing the hook during the endgame? That Survivor will get out no matter what. The stun is way too crippling at that point. The fact that a Survivor can do just about anything and not get hooked because of an "anti-tunneling" perk is bullshit. The perk needs to deactivate when the Survivor interacts with something and after the gates are powered and activate if the Killer is only within a certain distance when getting unhooked (probably something like 32 meters). It also shouldn't activate when you jump off the hook. This way, it'll actually be an anti-tunnel perk and not an unhealthy invincibility perk. Let's be honest, if the Killer's halfway across the map, comes back to the hook and still finds you or you kobe after 0.1 seconds of being hooked, then that's not tunneling. That's you failing to hide or wasting a valuable opportunity.
My only problem with BT is it activating during the endgame. Aside from that, it's fine. Hell, two of my favorite Killers (Doctor and Freddy) can turn BT against the Survivors.
But then again, I'm not green ranks or below, so what do I know?
Just a nitpick: if survivors are hook rushing at the end, I assume all 4 of them are still alive. If that's the case, the kill should be hard to secure, because you already failed to kill anyone else before and 4 escapes should be a thing just as much as 4 kills are.
It's already extremely rare, at least in my experience, for all the survivors to escape. It's kinda easy to just focus on one person and guarantee one kill. That's why perks like BT and DS should exist imo.
Other than that, I agree the safety is a bit too much. I think the locker interaction needs to go, because that's when the perk becomes invincibility, since you can't slug either. Other than that it's fine and you can go for like 10 matches as survivor without getting to use the perk or 10 matches as killer without being hit by DS. It's situational but strong, like Unbreakable or Deliverance.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Otz says he doesn't play Hag because he thinks she is too strong and snowballs too easily.
I think that is true but only if you are very good, for most people it's a disorienting mess lol.
Hag snowballs stupidly hard but she has absolutely no early game so there's that
She's very feast or famine and a very good killer but she's fine
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The reason why Ruin is so good, especially at higher ranks, is because it helps with the early game. It's not meant to last. It's meant to cover the lack of map pressure most killers have before the crucial first down.
After you down someone once, you'll have pressure rolling. Before that, unless you can down someone absurdly fast, you need some sort of pressure to stop gens from popping too fast.
Corrupt Intervention is OK I guess, but across all my games I felt like it did less than Ruin on average, even in the games Ruin got destroyed early.
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@FriendlyGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/924055#Comment_924055
He said the nurse base nerf were fine. He also said the spirit nerf was not enough. And he clearly stated, that oni is op.
He got no facts, that prove his argumentation, that's why i think he got no clue.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/924073#Comment_924073
If he would just say his opinion and base it on facts or observations there would be no problem.
He lost me completely while he ranted about spirit and told people over and over again how op she is, oh sorry, how little counterplay she got, completely ignoring the 1v4 aspect. He ignored facts and basic maths at this point only to spread his obviously really biased opinion. Not very cool imo.
He said MULTIPLE, and I mean multiple times that he didn't think Spirit was OP at all and asked for adjustments, not nerfs. He (rightly) said that the nerfs don't adress the actual problems with the killer, and iirc he was even fine with adding some power elsewhere if those problems were adressed.
Nurse base kit was too strong in the eyes of many people, including mine, and a good Nurse can still perform well with her, so it's hardly a controversial opinion and I don't know what your point is on mentioning it.
Not everything in this game is as black and white as "killers weak, survivors strong".
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If you fix the locker thing and maybe make the perk deactivate once someone else is hooked DS is fine imo.
Mettle of Meme is a great way of asserting dominance if you somehow manage to proc it.
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@Hex_Flex said:
I would still take Spirit Billy or Nurse as more powerful than PTB Oni. Oni was A-tier, but not S. Insta-down required you work for it, gave a global notification you had it, and lasted just a minute.
Now his power is best used for moving across the map, you can not catch survivors at loops with it anymore due to charge time increase and reduced flick.
From A-tier to another boring B-tier, arguably C-tier.
He was virtually immune to looping in the right hands, had no pallet breaking animation during his power (getting rid of pallets instantly) and had minimal cooldown so you always gained ground on the survivor while using his power. He was most definitely a better Billy.
Truth is, after you get the first use of your power you have it almost all the time. His only weakness is his early game (well, now he can get looped pretty well, but the next changes are probably gonna make him counter most structures again);
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It's something that's easy to play around and spices chases up a bit. I think it's good.
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The stats show that like 3 people play Hag.
She's not gonna get touched at all. There are many higher priority killers.
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Yeah I think some challenges don't encourage good gameplay tbh.
But it's their first take at this, so I firmly believe we'll see improvements in the next tomes.
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@FriendlyGuy said:
Scott got no clue about balance. Sometimes he got good ideas, but for the most part he's just crying for killer nerfs for some reason.
...I don't think I've ever seen him ask for anything other than Nurse and PTB Oni nerfs, and they were both actually bonkers?
He was actually fine with release Oni.
Just because someone doesn't get on the echo chamber of "Survivors OP, killers bad, buff pls :/" it doesn't mean the person is anti-killer you know.
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There's always someone asking for high skill stuff to be removed from the game, on both sides.
Anyone can use sprint burst to get to a safer zone, but you actually have to be good and have good planning to use SB to its fullest.
That's the type of decision making and high skill play we need in the game.
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I'm satisfied with those changes I guess,
IMO it was kinda silly to turn 180 degrees so 90 should be fine.
However I hope the current issues get fixed fast because they suck the fun out of him
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I,for one, am absolutely thrilled when survivors waste all their time doing stuff that doesn't progress the game at all.
I mean, I've resorted to camping/tunneling when it's beneficial to me or when I perceive the survivors as overly altruistic. It can win you games sometimes, it's all about the game state. But when I get to the point of doing stuff like this just to be petty, I know it's time to take a break.
Besides, there's your answer to why survivors hook dive/do risky saves: because it's boring af to just do gens to oblivion. Most survivors would rather die and have an action packed match than escape while doing nothing. It's a core difference of gameplay between survivors and killers (not killing everyone as killer is frustrating, as survivor you can die and still have a blast) and I don't think that's gonna change anytime soon.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/803728#Comment_803728
I absolutely agree. Huntress is crazy good if the player is good with her. Even if the map is Yamaoka or Ormond or another bad map for her, she’s still a viable killer.
I still do believe Plague is the most underrated though. At least most players know Hag and Huntress are great killers. People really sleep on how good Plague can be.
People sleep on Plague because they can't stand running tiles and she has to do it.
I swear to God if people would stop playing Spirit for 10s and actually learn the game fundamentals, they'd see that pretty much half the roster is most definitely red ranks viable.
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Considering the entirety of your gameplay as Myers should be levelling out of T1 as fast as possible, that change will most likely be negligible to his viability.
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@AkiTheKitten said:
There's only two problems with Spirit, and they're not even really related tbh:
The other killers are underperforming (the Spirit "overperforming" is just fancy talk for "she's good unlike the other killers that we've gotten used to being bad"
Other killers are weak and survivors have gotten too used to bullying the weak ones so when they see a Killer who's strong (as they should be) they dc and claim "op"
Well, everything you said contradicts both my individual experience and every single piece of data the devs have, but OK have at it
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@hiC said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/803791#Comment_803791
Great reply with a great understanding of what makes this game fun.
Yeah I don't see how people can miss this point honestly. Very few people who've been playing this game for years like hiding, standing still and praying the killer is dumb. There are plenty of killers who manage to be strong without ruining what is fun about the game.
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The only thing that holds Spirit back from being impossible to handle is her weakness to big maps. She can't afford to use her power fully for map pressure and still perform as well as she does in chases, at least not without add-ons dedicated to that.
However, her problem isn't her power level. It's the same problem that plagued old Legion, but to a lesser degree. The main thing that makes DBD fun is the chases, and the skill expression involved in both sides. Aside from overbearing, overly safe loops, that's the best thing about this game. Chases involving the Spirit require a good headphone and that's it. The only way you're pulling that to your favor is if she misplays or you brought 3 perks to handle her specifically, and once she knows you have them your advantage is almost gone.
Chases should ultimately be in the killers' favor, of course, but not to the extent that Spirit controls them. She doesn't even have to be nerfed. Just move some of her power away from chases and into map pressure and she'd be A LOT better to face.
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@PoisonN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/803682#Comment_803682
Huntress viable? Almost every map hurts her. I think Hag is so much better
Even on the maps where she's at her worst she's still viable if you know what you're doing. Her ceiling is crazy high.
Hag is obviously better. But being worse than Hag isn't the end of the world, she's extremely good. Most underrated killer in the game imo.
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Besides, this narrative that people complain about everything until it's nerfed is simply false. Nurse has been OP for ages, old Legion was unpleasant and as soon as people started learning how to properly play the Spirit she became omega unfun to play against. Only a minority complains about anything else.
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@hiC said:
I’ve been saying this a lot recently, but it doesn’t seem to be catching on as easily as I hoped. The idea that Spirit is the only killer that’s viable at red ranks IS COMPLETELY UNTRUE. Red rank survivors don’t dislike Spirit because she’s the only one that dominates them. Hag, Billy, Freddy, Plague, Huntress, and Ghostface are not only viable, but oppressive in the right hands.
The reason survivors dislike Spirit is that there is no interaction with her power. She has an insurmountable advantage while phasing where the only thing a survivor can do is make a guess and hope they’re right. There’s no mind gaming; it’s simply a guess that determines whether or not you take a hit. That feels terrible, especially when you compare it to the other killers who need to earn a hit or down from you.
People confuse "viable" with "easy wins".
That's why people say that Nurse and Spirit are the only ones viable at red ranks. Nurse pretty much can't lose if you've 100% mastered her, even after the changes. And Spirit is simply the most bang for your buck as far as killers go (as in, has the highest performance/effort and skill).
Billy, Freddy, Hag, Huntress and Demogorgon are absolutely viable in red ranks. People just assume that you can't win if you have to run tiles as killer, which is simply not true.
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@Entity_Burger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/802403#Comment_802403
Oh yes, because being able to actually catch up to someone once every 5 seconds is balanced. Taking away half of the Nurse's power without giving her ANYTHING in return is balanced. What a joke.
'Git gud'; the cry of the entitled player. I can tell how happy you are that the Nurse is basically unplayable now. I bet you're getting ready to scream about Spirit now. It's never you being bad; it's OP Killers. Just scream louder.
Christ, if ever there was proof of a Survivor bias, it's the Legion & Nurse 'tweaks'. BHVR took 2 powerful Killers and ensured they can't hurt anyone now.
It's okay, bad Survivor mains; if you whine loud enough, BHVR will completely slaughter whatever Killer has a greater than 2/4 killing average. You never have to actually improve. BHVR will keep lowering the bar so even the worst Survivors will be able to bully whatever Killer they want.
Might wanna work on a Killer bot program, because if you keep beating every good Killer into a coma, no one will want to play that role anymore, BHVR.
Just to clear up this misconception, every single killer has more than 50% kill rate according to the devs, even the worst killer in the worst map. And the Nurse's kill rate was over 75% the last time I checked iirc. So yeah, I wouldn't use stats as an argument to buff/stop nerfing killers if I were you.
At the end of the day, the Nurse will still be the best killer in the game when used by people who can actually play her. I'm sorry again, but this is, indeed, a "git gud" scenario.
One point I can see being valid is how fun (or unfun) she feels to play after the patch. Personally I feel like she still feels fun and powerful, but that's purely subjective.
The devs are most definitely not "survivor biased". They got rid of old DS this year. They got rid of the abomination that was old MoM a lot faster than I expected. They've been, for years now, handing out (very necessary) survivor nerfs. If killer mains are going to have a meltdown every time they change killers (and I don't care how much you liked old Legion, for example, but they were extremely bad for the game as a whole and anyone who's not willingly ignorant can see that) then we'll never be happy.
We just recently got reworked Freddy (one of the best reworks I've ever seen in any game), a very strong killer in Demogorgon and all the releases after Legion have been between solid and good. We got buffs to stealth killers. We've been getting new/redesigned maps suited specifically to make weak killers' lives easier. If you choose to ignore all that because a blatantly overpowered killer got slightly toned down, then I have very little hope for you.
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Demo does not need buffs in the slightest
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Imagine telling people they should be forced to play a game they're not enjoying.
I'm not responsible for your fun bud. I very rarely DC, but if I'm having a miserable experience I ain't playin. If I want to have zero fun I'll study or work or clean the house. Gaming time = fun time.
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What timeline is this where people complain about GEN TAPPING of all things
We've legitemaly seen it all
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I honestly don't think Legion can get to a state where they're both strong AND good design without a big rework
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/751505#Comment_751505
Teabagging and spamming the flashlightis also bm and bhvr did nothing about it.
Let's just remove flashlights and the ability to crouch 4head
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Spine Chill still works, which is fine, because the amount of information it gives is limited when compared to straight aura reading.
Kindred trumps all killers' stealth abilities so it should still trump undetectable.
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They did make the "training wheels" add-on for the Nurse a common now. That's very good for new players. I think it's a step in the right direction.
The changes are not even that big of a deal anyway.
Instaheals, on the other hand, got obliterated when compared to their original form, which is a much needed change. Do moris next please daddy bhvr
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I'm pretty sure she's still #1.
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@DaGreenBolt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/747585#Comment_747585
We will see, but from what I'm seeing since the Legion and now Nurse nerf, it looks like if you DC enough, you can get anything you want nerfed.
The Nurse nerfs are most definitely not due to DC. If that's the criteria the devs were looking into, Spirit would be getting nerfed now, not Nurse. People DC A LOT MORE vs Spirit.
And Legion deserved those changes.
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@DaGreenBolt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/747565#Comment_747565
Hmm let me remind you that survivors DC against any thing they don't like, they did this with legion, and nurse, and BHVR nerfed the crap outta them.
The DC epidemic is still going on, what's to stop survivors from dcing against Billy after spirit is nerfed. Cause I saw a lot of "nerf Billy posts" during the summer.
Killer mains shouldn't accept this cause survivors will use this against anything they don't like (again they did this to legion and nurse, and now they are doing the same to spirit).
Dedicated servers looks like they ain't coming anytime soon with the bugs and lag it brings.
I'll tell you why. No one DCs vs Billy.
Survivors aren't in any kind of high level conspiracy to ruin your game experience bud. They DC vs Spirit because she's garbage to go against. Same for some survivors with the Nurse. But I've seen survivors DC vs the Doctor more than against Billy. When people DC against Billy it's because of instasaw, which will probably go with the add-on rework.
You can't force people to play stuff they don't want to play. If they don't want to go against Spirit they won't, and it's up for the devs to solve that.
Every single other high tier killer than Nurse or Spirit offers a more fun gameplay experience for survivors, while still being viable at red ranks. Those killers will not be nerfed.
EDIT: just like, as killer, I absolutely refuse to play Haddonfun if I'm not Nurse or Hag. Same for the Game and Yamaoka sometimes. Until the devs improve those maps I'll most likely not play when I get them.
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I absofuckinglutely guarantee y'all that if Nurse and Spirit are tweaked we'll have like 7 killers being popular in red ranks. When you get down from their pedestal, the other high tiers are pretty balanced and still viable.
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@DaGreenBolt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/747460#Comment_747460
Lol after they nerf spirit, survivors will cry for a billy nerf. You really underestimate how much survivors will cry nerfs on high tier killers, bhvr said they would rework the add ons for billy, and so far it's looking like they will not only rework the add ons of billy but probably nerf billy's basekit just like the nurse's basekit. This game is going on a downwards spiral and I'm already quitting seeing that nurse is being trash, and the next two killers will be spirit and billy. After they nerf billy, they will somehow find a way to then nerf A tier killers, and B tier killers. The cycle never ends.
I highly doubt they'll nerf Billy's basekit because guess what, unline Nurse, he doesn't need changes in his base kit.
Stop with that fearmongering mentality "but muh they'll nerf everything11!!!1!!!!" No they won't. That's not how balance works. You establish a range where you want the killers to be and target the outliers. Nurse is a CLEAR outlier. Billy is not.
There are quite a few killers in this game that are strong without needing nerfs and they're plenty viable in red ranks. Stop whining. If the Nurse changes bother you that much, just leave, you won't be missed.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/747191#Comment_747191
Maybe people who say she has counterplay haven't bothered to consistently play against good Spirits.
See, I can flip nonsense around, too.
I love those players who think they have some magic way of dealing with Nurse or Spirit that somehow no one else, including survivors who've played this game at a high level for years, has bothered to learn.
They must be very special and have a very high IQ
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She's absolutely on their sights, no doubt about it.
Maybe consider that your fun isn't the only important thing in the game for the devs.
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@TLP_Legion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743090#Comment_743090
It doesn't matter if one or two players are absolutely unstoppable with her. You don't nerf something because a couple people are good with them.
So we shouldn't ever nerf SWF then, by that logic.
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For red ranks play in general and getting to rank 1, you realistically can do it with any killer, with enough effort. In terms of consistently being able to compete without add-ons, about half of the killer roster can do it.
That's just something people like saying because they want to blame their losses on anything but themselves.
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The only people who'll stop playing Nurse are the ones who weren't very good at her to begin with.
She'll still be #1. The Nurse players simply won't afford to make as many mistakes as it's currently possible (which is A LOT). No other killer can currently make half the mistakes you can make as Nurse and still win, this will slightly bring her in line a bit.
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The more I play and watch streams of the PTB the more I realize the nerfs aren't even that big of a deal. Nurse will still be #1, 100%. There just won't be a Nurse tier above everyone else anymore.
People love overreacting to stuff they know very little about.
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@SteelDragon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/94078/having-seen-new-nurse
nurse will be B tier at best now, next will be spirit to where they will probably make it to where you cant see scratch marks or hear people while phasing without a purple addon at least
See, this is why the devs don't take the forums seriously
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@Mc_Harty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/746385#Comment_746385
It's ######### beautiful ain't it?
Sure shows people's true colors when they're asked to do exactly what they demand everyone else to do
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Imagine being so entitled that you get mad when the character you play no longer is in a tier of their own
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ksksksksksksks
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Considering they're the ones who constantly tell people to "adapt" and "get good", Nurse and Spirit players seem pretty scared to have to adapt to changes
Kinda ironic