gantes
gantes
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The latest patches for DBD have been so ######### good. Keep it up devs.
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@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745307#Comment_745307
No viability is the ability to compete with hardcore players. You need to sweat your balls off as anything less than the current top 3 to hope to win in red ranks even against less coordinated Surviviors.
Wow, you need to play well and hard to win? Who'd have thought
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The only way to reach the conclusion that only Nurse and Spirit are red ranks viable is if your idea of viability = ez 4ks
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@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745270#Comment_745270
Then every single one of those killers need buffed to Spirit level. Bc every killer should be viable at red ranks. And if Nurse isn't gonna be their standard bearer then Spirit needs to be.
Those killers are already viable at red ranks, minus Huntress on some maps. If you can't pull them off, I'm sorry, but you're the problem.
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@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745240#Comment_745240
Good. This game is 4v1. It should be on Surviviors to outplay the killer, not the other way around. Nurse was the only killer that forced Surviviors to play a different game, to play HER game. That's how every killer should be. Instead Nurse is now in the pile of killers who play the Surviviors game.
You know I'd have been fine with Spirit and Billy getting adjusted if this Nurse rework wasn't gonna dumpster her. But it's pretty clear that it is, so Spirit at least Should be ignored. She's the only killer that comes anywhere close to making Surviviors play Her game anymore.
When survivors who have played this game at a high level for literal years can't counter those killers, I'm gonna say "their game" is unhealthy.
All other good killers make you adapt in healthier ways. Billy can curve around loops and punishes you in open spaces. Freddy punishes you for greeding pallets. Demogorgon demolishes jungle gyms and shack. Huntress punishes you between tiles and in short loops. Hag controls small areas better than everyone else. THOSE are healthy ways to make survivors play your game, and there's nothing wrong with that. And those killers should be the balance standard for the game, not Nurse or Spirit.
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@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745228#Comment_745228
I don't believe you for 2 seconds. Bc you apparently think Huntress is way easier and a Nurse can brute Force chases just fine while Huntress is throwing if she tries.
I never said Nurse can brute force chases, she still has to use her power.
That doesn't mean I've ever watched a good Nurse player lose a game without messing up horribly, multiple times.
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@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745207#Comment_745207
I really recommend you play Nurse and see how wrong you are. But I implore you to play her now while she's still good.
And sweetheart I play High execution fighting games almost every day. I have an MK11 addiction. Nurse is the only real skill based killer in this game and BHVR just gave us all the middle finger.
Being the best and being OP are not the same thing. Base Nurse was perfectly fine. She became problematic when add-ons entered the equation.
I am a pretty mediocre Nurse who can still 4k in red ranks 3/4s of the time with no add-ons, which is obviously not fine. Hence why I think she should be nerfed.
People who are actually good with her are unbeatable, or close to it.
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@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745171#Comment_745171
1. No she isn't. Huntress can brute Force a chase. Nurse needs her power or she loses. This is how I know you don't play Nurse.
2. Being the hardest killer gives you every right to be the best. Base Nurse was balanced. The add-on changes are anywhere from meh to "I can't believe BHVR thinks this was a good idea" but Nurse didn't need add-ons previously. Now she's gonna rely on her add-ons that recover her blinks faster to resemble addon-less Nurse right now, which is balanced.
Meaning she's gonna need add-ons to be balanced.
Huntress can brute force a chase, yes, if you wanna throw the game.
I'm not even gonna address the first point too much because it's entirely subjective.
HOWEVER, your logic on the second point is extremely flawed. Even if base Nurse was balanced (which I don't agree with), what you're saying implies that balance is a binary, yes/no switch, and it isn't. Post-rework Nurse can still be balanced, even if base Nurse is balanced right now. Balance is a spectrum.
And NO, being hard to play doesn't mean the character gets to be OP. No serious game balances things out like this. Playing a hard character should be a choice because you enjoy the character, not because you want something OP.
Most fighting game characters are 10x harder to execute than anything on DBD and they're obviously not all OP. A lot of MOBA characters are hard to execute and the devs still balance them.
In fact, for anyone who thinks Nurse is hard to learn, I recommend you to play literally any high execution fighting game. Spoiler: nothing is hard to play on DBD.
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Bad Spirits are an absolute joy to play against
Good Spirits make the most miserable experience in the game for survivors
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@PickCollins said:
1. BHVR promised slight tweaks to her power if they exist at all. The change to her base power is anything but slight.
2. Her add-ons were the issue, base kit was fine.
3. She's the hardest killer in the game, she should be the most powerful.
1. Huntress is harder to play well 2. being hard doesn't give you the right to be op
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745112#Comment_745112
Yes, because it's enough to just pick Nurse or Spirit and you can already 4k in every of your games, what I can tell.
Not Nurse, but you can legit play 10 games as Spirit and start roflstomping most people with her. She has the best cost/benefit to learn in the game by far.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/744872#Comment_744872
If Nurse is close enough, there's no real counter to her, a good Nurse will still get you. Those outcries have enough similarities.
I'm telling you man. The biggest problem with Nurse players is that the mediocre ones think they're very good and the character has counterplay because survivors juke them. Never have I heard an actual god Nurse player claim she has counterplay in her current state.
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I honestly feel like people lean on Spirit and Nurse that much because they're too lazy to learn basic M1 and tile gameplay, plain and simple.
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To be honest, playing both MOBAs and fighting games (two genres with overwhelmingly more balance changes than DBD has) I can't imagine how miserable I'd be if I got so salty every time a character I play gets nerfed. Ya'll making the DBD community look real soft
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If Spirit gets any changes it will be to make her less frustrating to play against, not in relation to her power levels.
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@MemberBerry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/744987#Comment_744987
Well neither are keys, toolboxes, instaheals and DS, but no one is batting an eye on those, naaaah man, if survivors find something unfun it's gone, if killers find it unfun who cares? After all we're just play-toys for survivors, am I right?
No one is batting an eye on those? All killer mains do in these forums is complain all day long, I don't know what you're talking about.
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Now that new Freddy and Demogorgon are in the game, you have no excuse to need Nurse or Spirit to do well at red ranks,
Hell, you didn't even have an excuse before. Billy exists. Hag exists. Huntress exists. There are quite a few killers who can perform at red ranks and honestly, if you need Nurse or Spirit to do so, you're either not as good as you think you are or you just want 4ks with little to no effort.
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She'll still be top tier without add-ons.
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@ShadowRain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/744993#Comment_744993
Imagine being that ignorant thinking 1 of the 3 viable killers getting destroyed is balanced
One of 3 viable killers lul
Destroyed lul
Thanks for letting me know so quickly you can't be taken seriously
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@ShadowRain said:
Nurse is dead that’s why. They lied to us that’s why. “Small tweak” has to be the most ignorant lie I’ve ever heard. She’s garbage tier now
Imagine being so bad on Nurse that these nerfs will make her unplayable to you
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@MemberBerry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/744935#Comment_744935
Well maybe if they stopped being little children and started juking and running counterperks instead of ragequitting as soon as they see her, she wouldn't have the highest amount of dc's. But the era of adapting to killers is gone, the new trend is ragequitting and whining on forums.
No matter how many counterperks you run she's still extremely unfun to play against
People just don't give a #########. This isn't an esports game. People care a whole lot more about having fun than winning, most people anyways. You think survivor mains who have been playing the game at red ranks for literal years feel like they have something to prove to you? Do you think they care that much about escaping? They just wanna have fun, and Spirit isn't fun to go against for most people.
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Moris can only be used on survivors you've hooked twice
You can't just erase someone from the game anymore, neither can you roflstomp an entire team. You can still get a small advantage and you get to see the sweet animations.
Done, fixed.
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Spirit will get looked into eventually, as she should. It doesn't even need to be a nerf, just something that makes her less miserable to go against.
People forget that everyone is playing this game for fun. If they ain't having fun they'll complain and DC and suicide on hook and not even try. No matter how much fun you have playing the Spirit, you're not the only one in the match, and your fun is no more important than anyone else's.
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@MemberBerry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/744907#Comment_744907
If the does, then the devs will truly show us how much they don't care about killers.
Yeah right imagine dealing with something that makes the other 80% of the playerbase miserable and is actively harmful to the game by generating the biggest number of DCs since old Legion
what a joke right, how dare they try to make the game more enjoyable
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We got Freddy AND Demogorgon in a row and people still think they need Nurse to do well in red ranks lol
People just refuse to learn new things
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Because now you can't just rely on her lack of downtime to carry you to red ranks.
People who are actually good with the Nurse will still do well with her, and she'll still be top tier. Not on a tier of her own as it is right now probably, but she'll still be very ######### good.
People who just got carried by her to red ranks will struggle, and I'm fine with that. When some people put into the time and effort to get so good with her you don't miss a single attack most of the time, those are the players the killer needs to be balanced around. Not your everyday scrub who picks her up and thinks they're hot ######### because they can get to red ranks with her, as if that means something in her current state.
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At least Spirit is manageable with Iron Will and a big map. You're not gonna outplay her in chases, but you can drag her around and finish the game fast enough that she doesn't just kill everyone with no counterplay.
And people just DC against her anyway so idc
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Imagine thinking survivors even play against Spirit lol. They just DC.
There are quite a few killers that can be viable in red ranks without being OP/miserable to play against. You just want easy 4ks if all you can play is Nurse.
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I feel like now that she won't be disgustlingly OP anymore maybe there's room to buff her base MS to 100% (same as running survivors) just as a QoL change. But I don't think it's necessary by any means.
Good Nurse players ain't missing attacks too much anyway.
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Here's my hot take. People who are actually good with the Nurse will still do well. People who are carried by her will struggle.
As it should be.
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I remember a stat about Nurse having a kill rate of about 77% in red ranks iirc. @Peanits can you confirm that for me?
Could we see stats for add-on less Nurse maybe?
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By the way, for all the people saying that the training wheels add-on becoming lower rarity is "a buff", give me a ######### break.
It's a quality of life change. A buff is a change that makes a killer stronger. That doesn't make her stronger, that makes it easier for people to get into the character. We have A LOT of valid reasons to complain when it comes to the Nurse, stay away from the ones that make no sense whatsoever.
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@Omans you're not gonna be able to reason with people who feel entitled to win 90% of their games because they had to "work hard" to learn a character (in any high execution game, like any fighting game, learning the simplest character's execution in-depth is still harder than learning the Nurse in this game).
I still stand by my point that I've never seen a godlike Nurse with no add-ons lose a game, and I watch A LOT of DBD content. I've watched some close calls when the Nurse player made a fuckton, and I mean A LOT of misplays, but they still killed everyone. A godlike Nurse, even when add-on less, is like the anthytesis to a godlike SWF group against mid tier to lower killers - the ammount of mistakes you need to make to lose, regardless of how the other side plays, is absurd.
Not only that, but a mediocre Nurse player is still stronger than a godlike player with most other killers. That's the main problem for me. The way you can just get decent with her and beat people who most likely are fundamentally better than you at the game.
No matter how hard a character is, they shouldn't be allowed to be overpowered. That's a simple rule for any competitive game. Thankfully (or not) DBD is far from a competitive game, so we get to keep our broken #########.
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@THEghostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/697939#Comment_697939
That means nothing. The perk is to counter loops and infinites, preventing the survivor from keeping the killer at bay with this added chase pressure. The perk exists for that sole reason. If a really good killer main uses it, are they considered bad?
Good killer mains don't use Bamboozle unironically.
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Because people were ######### with her and now that they know how to play her people are realizing that there's little to no counterplay to her.
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@KormitLeFrag said:
Ye, shame you cant just loop endlessly around shack isnt it.
Thats called karma for being a prick.
Imagine not knowing how to run shack of all structures as killer
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This perk has to be bad to have a place in the game imo. The effect it provides is too strong if more than one survivor is able to proc it.
It's bad and telegraphed and you have to actively be a useless survivor to get the 3 stacks most of the time, but it's definitely healthier now than it was before.
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I never understood why people think Spirit is hard to play. Is she hard to master? Yes, but what isn't in this game? Even basic M1 killer gameplay has depth. In terms of skill cap though, she's probably the best you can get in this game in terms of cost/benefit. She ain't hard to pick up and do basic stuff with when compared to the other good killers.
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@THEghostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/693856#Comment_693856
I love it when people call killer perks that counter what a survivor can do is referred to as a perk for "bad killer players".
I mean, what are you if you can't run basic tiles? Good?
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IDK outside of blocking bs windows it's a perk for bad killer players anyway so I don't think it'll matter that much
People won't suddenly start using the perk because of that
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
Once they do fix the inconsistencies I think he'll need some sort of buff as well...
Not necessarily. Fixing him involves fixing all the times when you completely hide behind something and you still get detected.
The bs works both ways with this killer.
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No needs changed on Billy except add-ons change for nerfing instasaw.
He's 100% fine other than that. Strong but fine.
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Wow, the survivor player either
- plays normally and prays they're the last person alive and the killer doesn't slug
- hides the entire game doing nothing, handicapping other survivor and giving the killer 3 free kills as long as they aren't horrible.
To escape via hatch?
So when survivors sacrifice an entire portion of the game to be strong in the endgame it's wrong, but when killers do it it's """strategy"""?
These forums sure are a joke sometimes
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Yes. please, BHVR, punish campers more. They ain't even human beings as far as I'm concerned.
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STBFL is amazing on M1 killers without an instadown.
The amount of times it saved me from having to run another loop vs good survivors many, many times.
I particularly love it on Freddy because he's not as reliant on Enduring+Spirit Fury as other M1 killers, but it can realistically be used on any M1 killer. Again, if you have an instadown I don't like it that much, but if you don't it's great.
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Solo survivor can be a pretty miserable experience at all ranks, but generally when you get to green/purple people start actually playing the game.
That's no guarantee that anyone will save you tho. People play so scared they just finish the gens and leave.
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Clown needs something else in his kit. I hope they revisit him eventually.
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@marching_hyena said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/647350#Comment_647350
I feel like it's a little too early to determine if this killer will suck or not.
No, it's never too early for the bright players who understand very little of game balance or design to say killers suck. Just look at reworked Fredward! He sucks like everyone said he was gonna suck right? /s
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/647543#Comment_647543
You get slowed. Not sure by how much but you are moving slower than survivor speed right before the lunge.
I've seen people throw around 100% speed but I don't know the source
Either way it seems like something to hit survivors between tiles instead of inside loops. But it's impossible to know before we test it.
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Who even hopes to retain a large percentage of players who come because of ST?
It's gonna be like most new chapters. Lots of new or returning people play, the playerbase spikes, then it returns to normal. We might see a few more players staying around, but I don't think they have hopes that high.