esarraf
esarraf
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@terumisan said:
he's not broken he's just ok. he has counterplay with crouching because it gives him zero information
That's… not how counterplay works. You can't work on generators or progress the game at all while crouched and you can't even stay still. Seriously no other killer has this extreme amount of lethality, mobility, and free information. He gets so much more information than even doctor, not even lockers work against Jason.
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@smappdooda said:
I think he should lose haste after a spear throw. That would be a good balance change without impacting him SEVERELY.
He should not have haste to begin with and him still having it while using the spear is the bigger issue since that makes zoning dramatically easier. He's not like huntress or deathslinger where they have to walk to the survivor and the survivors have time to react, Jason teleports almost on top of someone without warning, I can think of maybe a handful of generators in the game without a pallet or window next to them and I don't even know if they still exist in this version of the game. He's already S tier we should be looking to bring him down to A at the very least.
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@Yamalive said:
If devs stay true to their recent history, never. Cashgrab must be milked.
Eh, ghoul may be broken still but he did get some nerfs. And they finally did something to slightly help with blight. I should totally have added an option for a few years though.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
1st Person Lights Out(no Docs or Legion powers) could go pretty hard
(tbh any killer that has killer instinct should be banned but especially those two.)
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Interesting idea, however I think it'd be better to implement more things as basekit features like they tried to do last year with the anti tunnel update. Giving killers basekit pop and survivors something akin to decisive could be a good start.
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You aren't alone, it's just really boring playing against him right now since he gets so much free stuff there's not a whole lot survivors can do. I've had some luck with running a sabotage build but it's still not fun playing against him. At least with nurse the killer has to have some level of skill but Jason can make a dozen mistakes and not care at all since all of his mechanics punish good survivors who outplay Jason.
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@iphone_T said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089706#Comment_4089706
I think Jason can get away with being 115% due to his spikes potentially being unavailable and causing him to repath mid chase.
I think huntress should definitely be 115% when she’s out of hatchets similar to springtrap but I think making killers like slinger 115% would be a bit of an over buff to his chase power.
Not really, hook density is already extremely high on most maps. Add in the scrap piles, the ability to go into omnipresent evil, quickly grab a hook and catch back up since you know where they are and Jason always has a spear whenever he wants and can easily reload in chase.
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@pidgeon said:
Gen breaking add-on makes you hit the regression limit super fast its not really that insane in the long run
Lol, seriously if you are hitting that limit you've already won. Like seriously what is the argument here? "So what if survivors have to fix the equivalent of ten generators? Jason is totally balanced guys."
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@cammoking123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090052#Comment_4090052
I think the nerfs would be justified. I saw Scott Jund saying that he has a higher kill rate than most killers and that's not surprising. He has information, mobility, built in haste, and a ranged attack. He's a complete killer. Defiinitely A tier. I feel like the only thing that stops him from being S tier is his 4.4 movement.
You do realize he's actually 4.6 because he almost always has haste right? It lasts for 25 seconds out of jumpscare and the cooldown is only like 12 seconds. He is currently an S tier killer by your own standards.
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089637#Comment_4089637
As a Huntress main let me help inform you that most of my shots do not require a fully charged hatchet. You saying a fully charged hatchet takes longer than a spear throw is irrelevant. A fully charged hatchet serves different purposes than a fast-toss lobbing hatchet. You don't just get to pick the one that takes longer and say 'I will compare the spear to that one, because it's more convenient for my argument!'
I'm just asking if, like, you actually have an argument here because you should know your own points, to borrow the phrase from you. I'd also still like to know why you think it takes less skill, which you have not addressed since leaving your undeservedly snarky comment to the OP.… Right having access to a fully charged hatched all the time at a much faster rate is totally not great for zoning and being 115 movement speed also totally does not make it easier and less skill based than huntress. I don't think I'm capable of making an argument you like so hope you have a good day.
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089631#Comment_4089631
… Why? What are your arguments for this? As a huntress main who has played Jason and despises his M2 as being grossly inferior, I'm curious why you think his M2 is better at zoning, and requires 'significantly low levels of skill'? You used words like 'drastically' and 'significantly' but I'm not sure I understand.
His M2 is slower, has frame locks, and the projectile is slower than a hatchet. How is that low skill, and better than huntress? How does him throwing a spear better zoning than Deathslinger whom on hit actually drags you through zones?His wind up is a lot lower than huntress meaning it's easier to threaten survivors with it, compared to huntress which is a lot longer. Like, if you are actually a huntress main you should know how long it takes to get a fully charged hatchet, Jason just has that all the time.
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skill based lol, his projectile is drastically easier to zone with than huntress or deathslinger it requires significantly low levels of skill to use that part of his power.
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@oreoslurpee said:
no clue why so many people downvoted already, because your honestly right. now the way you go about balancing him is different, but i do agree that the main thing you should do for spring trap is to make his security system more viable & more interactive/engaging for the survivors. the way you go about doing that, is feedback and suggestions you’ll have to receive by people who actually dedicate their time into getting better at the killer, and people who know the killer by heart.
I think the cameras would be used more if they halved the time it takes to reveal springtrap. Right now it takes forever and the radius to reveal him is so small. The other main issue with it is that because the door spawn logic is… questionable at times there are going to be maps where you literally can't reveal him half the time so you can't force survivors to interact with it by making it so he gets ridiculously strong if he's not revealed.
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@TsukiYurei said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/468592/jason-feedback
Jason is fine & is balanced perfectly, Nothing is wrong with him.
This is the one sided whining tribalism that needs to go already.
Because of this Krasue got destroyed, Bearly seen now due to some not all survivors. Not wanting to learn her counter play.
Now you’re complaining about Jason, Even tho he’s been out barely a day.
Every time now on day one a new killer comes out, This bad habit needs to stop with the one sided narrative.It’s bad for community & over all games health !
Stop it already, He’s been out a day & you’re complaining.
It shows your true intentions,
Play both sides learn & adapt have fun in the fog !
This is coming from a player, Who does play both sides & has been activity playing since 2019.
Just stop with one sided narrative, Jason hasn’t even been out for 2 months to even get more data on him.
Personally he’s an A- at best.
Happy 10th anniversary all!
🍾
Krasue is still fine? She's just no longer stronger than nurse lol. Having broken killers is bad for the games health.
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Yeah Jason needs to get looked at, he's way too strong especially compared to Springtrap.
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After playing against him, he's got far too much going for him. He's got great mobility, his spear is always available due to not only the high hook density but the scrap piles, the stealth aspect, and extreme amounts of free information as well is just crazy. I think at minimum the scrap piles need to be removed and have no haste.
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You can either have him be 4.4 and require a low amount of knives to be thrown or 4.6 and require something like nine knives to get an injure. He gets a lot of free passive knives at 4.4 just because of how easy it is to get a few off with no cost.
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@Wezqu said:
No survivors could remove four of the top played killers and their queue times would increase. Not healthy to the game at all.
Oh no… not a metric for the devs to figure out which are the most problematic killers and have real time information on who they should focus on.
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Almost perfect, I think they just need to remove his haste. He has so much in his kit already that he's only fair when he's a 110 movementspeed killer and he almost never is.
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@RavenBirb said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087916#Comment_4087916
and you can say for a fact that those numbers are true? lol ok
Yeah? Unless you want to start a crazy conspiracy that the devs are lying.
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We can only pray that we get a nurse rework.
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@toxik_survivor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088028#Comment_4088028
It solves doing archives in unranked mode and being competitive and actually trying in ranked mode
Again, it's still not fun to play with someone doing archives. You are saying that it's fine to make three out of four people's experiences worse to maybe make one person's experience better.
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@toxik_survivor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4088021#Comment_4088021
That's why dbd should bring back the original ranking system and have an unranked and ranked mode
What does that solve? Truly? Ranked or unranked it's still not fun playing a 3v1.
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This is a good thing. The Archives were awful and just meant that if you were unlucky enough to que into a lobby with someone whose quest was to throw the match for a thousand bloodpoints you just lost and there was nothing you could do. If you are that desperate for a challenge just do the archive quests again, you won't get anything from it but whatever. We should not be incentivizing people to throw games.
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Well, we know for a fact based on all the stats provided by the devs that's not true and that killers are doing fine and all of them except nurse I believe have an over 60% kill rate. So I'd say focus more on how it feels to play killer because the objective reality is that killers are actually all doing extremely well with the game being heavily biased in their favor.
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@Chrarcq said:
There's not much they can do about it aside from reworking the killer from the ground-up, which they never will.
Actually all they would have to do is lower the amount of time it takes to kill victor when you are stuck in a locker.
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@Rogue11 said:
just bring back 2v8
Just make 2v8 permanent.
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@kit_mason said:
i think atvl it needs to be reverted. honestly im not even sure why it was buffed in the first place. its a very solid perk
Because it did next to nothing pre buffs.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087321#Comment_4087321
My main build atm is Botany Vigil STB and Lithe even if I don't end up getting a bunch of vigil value on lithe I still get tons of value from the significantly lower exposed timer.
Also I edited out the bad math dw I realized that it was really wrong a bit late lol and yeah removing the exhaustion part is a bit unreasonable but at the very least it shouldn't transfer to allies.
I could see that as a fair nerf. And yes, vigil does sometimes help with exposed timers but it's not consistent enough to be worth bringing like ever if that's all it does.
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@Callahan9116 said:
Vogils problem is it has zero counterplay
Except you know, exhaustion perks.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087294#Comment_4087294
Calm spirit is a bad example. I genuinely think vigil would be great without affecting exhaustion because for the killers side it affects Friends (7.24%), Sloppy (6.63%), Gift of pain (3.34%), Mindbreaker (2.11%), Starstruck (1.44%), Ultimate Weapon (1.40%), Nemesis (1.27%), Hubris (1.21%), Alien Instinct (1.12%), Make Your Choice (0.86%), so you will get value in at least 24.4% of your matches based off of 10 perks alone its likely around 30-35% with the rest included. However you can still get value literally every match if you bring some of the strongest perks in the game such as Deliverance, Shoulder the Burden, and Dramaturgy.
… That's… not how any of that works at all. How about this. You go and play like five games with vigil and no exhaustion perks and tell me how many times it was actually useful.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087272#Comment_4087272
I don't think it would in all honesty it completely ruins any killer builds that decide to run off meta the sheer amount of times I have been saved because my deliverance / STB / friends till the end downsides went away sooner is baffling. The only reason why people feel vigil is so insane because it gives you and your teammates in a radius the best perks back in almost half the time.
Dude, no one's going to bring a perk that has value maybe one in every fifty games. There's a reason why no one brings stuff like calm spirit even if it's great against scream builds. When people make posts like this they need to think about both sides of the game when balancing stuff otherwise they just end up looking silly.
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Yeah septic touch is broken as hell, you need to look at other perks that exist. Forced hesitation for 40 seconds alone would be insanely broken and make slugging even stronger. The invocation is awful, sorry but there should not be sandbag perks to this extent. Just imagine you are in chase and after someone wastes 60 seconds setting up an invocation you are forced to run into a haunt that makes you exposed or hurts you. Survivor perks should not be able to actively harm your team. Like it's one thing if it's yourself but making things worse for others is just a bad idea always. Also seriously who nerfs residual manifest, a sixty second cooldown? Who was saying this perk is too strong? I mean for goodness sake if the killer brings lightborn it's just a dead perk or if they are one of the many killers who you can't blind in chase because their powers allow them to ignore pallets or have special breaks where they aren't locked into the animation. Overzealous also runs into the same problem of it just fundamentally does not work with those values. You spend significantly more time cleansing totems than you save repairing gens. And boons work best when your build is nothing but boons. And sure, I guess you can say what about hexes but that's assuming you find it before another survivor and everyone wants to cleans a hex.
The map rework also has some glaring issues like making the entire top floor pointless by removing the generator up there but also it just doesn't really work putting in potential redesigns of maps without labeling where stuff like pallets and windows spawn at. If you make more of these would recommend you label them so people know if what you are proposing is balanced or not. Also did you do anything to help with the fact the balcony is just an inverted basement? I can't tell if the train is suppose to connect to the balcony or ground floor.
Good formatting as always though.
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Would be a good start, still what would really help if all hits were validated by the server instead of the killer. Because right now all nurse would have to do is just use a vpn or have crummy wifi and they get basekit coup.
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@pidgeon said:
Remove the ability to effect exhaustion and killer powers and it will still be an amazing perk as it counters everything that isn't gen regression or aura reading
What? Have you ever played survivor before? Almost none of the effects come into play enough for it to matter. It's like saying calm spirit is strong because someone may play doctor. It would instantly become a D tier perk no one uses.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087140#Comment_4087140
Wouldn't a lot of those be nerfs, not buffs?
OTR, WGLF, and Lucky Break have all basically only been buffed since release, exempting the duration nerf for OTR and the speed nerf for WGLF. The release iterations of those perks were all missing key components - OTR didn't have Endurance or scratch mark blocking, WGLF only increased BP gain on release, and Lucky Break didn't block scratch marks + couldn't be recovered on release - and even only partial reversions would be walking back buffs for the most part.
Trickster and Blight were also much worse on release. Especially Trickster- Blight's release was before my time but I do remember Trickster's release and he was godawful.
Some of these I do see the reasoning, but I'm curious if I'm missing something on the ones I mentioned.
Blight would actually be a massive nerf if I recall correctly he could not break pallets when he was rushing. So… yeah it's make him actually quite weak.
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Just max out your brightness or use shaders.
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A backrooms anything would be awesome but they need to nail the map design, the killer is not that important for the collab.
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@FootMan2893 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087190#Comment_4087190
Yes. He had to have visited that loop at some point and lay the trap down, leaving it there to dedicate it to that loop instead of some other loop or spot on the map. You're emotionally measuring effort/resources spent to how mechanically intensive it was, so of course your view is going to be skewed to hell.
Lol, yeah just make breaking a 3 gen next to impossible. Let me guess you were fine with chess merchant too since survivor enjoyment does not matter?
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@IareRubberDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087191#Comment_4087191
For reasonable reasons, I have to kind of keep it "close to the chest" on the changes. Sprint Burst and Lithe, as mentioned, are close. If we go on about it'd buff slugging, then we get into how lower Tier Killers can't slug nearly as well higher Tier ones, then we get into Nurse and Blight, and then we get into Perks that can help with self-recovery, and then… well, ya see? It horrifically ripples and we'd be here all day.
I'll eventually get to everything in due time. I would love to German Suplex Nurse into a bed of a nails and barbed wire, but I can't at the moment. To me though, slugging just doesn't happen that often. As a Killer, I don't usually need to do it unless they were trying to be annoying or letting their ego take hold, as a Survivor, I rarely see it happen unless the dude hit Plot Twist or tried to use their DS in a very stupid way. I don't know why, but in my 7 years of playing Dbd, the amount of times the Killer specifically went out to omega slug the entire team can be counted on one hand… and more than half of those were because of Twins, Oni, or Myers, which is understandable as to why they're slugging. Twins Rework when?
Guess I'm just lucky or something.
Yeah it's an incredibly broken playstyle on some killers which are the strongest like billy or nurse while not as strong on weaker ones but that's the same for everything. That's why I'm saying these radical changes to the meta by making the meta stronger for killer and weaker for survivor is a bad idea.
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@IareRubberDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087180#Comment_4087180
Think of it like this: A "Comeback" Chapter, to me, is a "sequel" to an already existing Chapter that changes a majority of what's in the Chapter AS WELL AS any relevant things outside of the Chapter. When All-Kill Comeback came out, although the Chapter was mainly about Tae-Young and MiNA, Trickster got a full Rework and a map, Yun-Jin Lee got background music, and two of her Perks got changed.
It's just that, when it comes to Lithe, I am directly changing something that IS meta, unlike the other Comebacks I've done where all the Perks currently range from "Exists" to "Wouldn't Wish It On My Worst Enemy." There's a lot more ripples created from changing Lithe than like Game Afoot, and I did have to address it.Also, thanks for the nice comment about formatting. SO MANY people on the forums, subreddit, and everything else can learn a thing or two about headings, making things bold, underlines, and all that fun stuff nobody uses. Genuinely hurts me to read through a brick of text.
Yeah but you are only making the meta significantly worse by buffing meta strategies for killer and removing counterplay to those strategies from survivor. Distressing would make slugging even stronger, same for Shock Jock. Likewise nerfing sprint bust by making it take so long once again buffs slugging because even if you can get someone up they probably won't have recovered their sprint burst or lithe and will likely go down soon since you tend to go down in dead zones as a survivor. These suggestions cements the meta for slugging by making it extremely powerful. That's one of the reasons why I really don't like this post is because it only makes killers significantly stronger when they are playing the most unfun playstyle they have and removes much of what survivors can do to counter it.
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@FootMan2893 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087188#Comment_4087188
Yes. He shuts down a loop that he put in the work to trap prior to you running him there, you take a hit, and then move on to a different loop if you didn't go down. As far as killer powers with down potential is concerned, that still wouldn't bring him above the average in Time To Down.
Or is it you're implying that you think killer powers shouldn't be able to force you into taking a hit and you should just be able to infinitely run him around the map?Put in work? Seriously? Holding M2 is putting in work? Okay how about we make a survivor perk where if they press M1 the killer instantly dies. This is actually hilarious.
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@FootMan2893 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087184#Comment_4087184
Then disarm the trap. Or, if he placed it mid chase, leave the loop.
If you bring him back to that loop and he rearms the trap remotely then you've ate his CD and leave the loop, possibly taking a hit in the process. For an M1 killer the ability to shut down a loop that he preemptively prepped ahead of time on a 20-30s CD is laughably average.You are saying that you want to add in a mechanic that lets trapper arm traps midchase so disarming does not work and since you want him like singularity and he can still move you won't even make it to the next loop. If you are going to make rework suggestions you can't just ignore half of the game.
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@FootMan2893 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087179#Comment_4087179
No. Survivor isn't being sacrificed nor is it worse off. You're just being expected to have to play around a killer's power, instead of the killer and his power having to play around you. Again, thinking that this is unfair is called being entitled. .
You… literally can't. That's Trappers main thing is that he 100% shuts down any loop with his power. Being able to reset it at a distance and still be able to move like singularity can per your description means that it's impossible to play around his power at all.
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@IareRubberDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087171#Comment_4087171
Because they were related! I just said that Sprint Burst and Lithe are practically interchangeable. If I nerf one, I have to nerf the other or else one gets raised on a pedestal while the other gets shafted. Calm Spirit was brought it because of it's association with Doctor himself, and Distressing for much the same reason since that Perk is commonly ran on Doctor. Plus, with Monitor and Abuse, I had to check up on Terror Radius lengths, and having a 56m Terror Radius as Doctor sounds awful!
Check my other Comeback Chapter Ideas, all the Perks outside of the Chapter have a reason to be there. For Tools of Torment, all of the Teamwork Perks were getting changed into Partner Perks, and I wanted to add more, so 9 got added in. For Flesh and Mud, I reworked Ace's Perks and crunched some Perk effects into other places. I also had to change Hex Perks, so that's like 15 that had to added. For Roots of Dread, Fixated and Genetic Limits were mentioned because they were getting the effects of Inner Focus and Septic Touch, respectively.
I don't just mention Perks I have a gripe with. I have a very good reason why I put them in.
Sorry but like, again I just can't take any of this seriously when you are like "I'm going to focus only on the materials in this chapter" unless it's something that helps survivors then I'll be sure to nuke it even though it's unrelated.
I'll give you something though, you formatted the post very well and it looks very pretty even if the ideas in it aren't great. -
@FootMan2893 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087176#Comment_4087176
It's not miserable. It's called not catering to one side by sacrificing killer. If that's your definition of being mean to survivors or ruining the game for them then you're entitled.
To use your own words, it's just catering to one side by sacrificing survivor.
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@FootMan2893 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087170#Comment_4087170
I fundamentally believe that killer design shouldn't be based around if the survivors have fun are not.
And no, you can still counterplay the traps the same way you counterplay hag traps. Pay attention, crouch/slow walk, and coordinate with teammates to disarm them. Except now it's more costly for the survivors to act instead of the killer, as it rightfully should be.Oh okay then this whole topic is totally moot then but I now want to know why you think making the game absolutely miserable for one side is okay.
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@IareRubberDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4087164#Comment_4087164
You sure you're not also showing your bias? This post ain't about Nurse or Blight, this is about Doctor and Feng. If I wanted to include them, I would in their own "Comebacks," not in this one. Don't play whataboutism. I nerfed Lithe knowing I also had to nerf Sprint Burst or else it would just be one Perk completely overtaking the other. The two Perks are practically interchangeable, and half the time, it goes down to personal preference. Both had to get nerfed at the same time in the same way.
And I nerfed Alert and Calm Spirit for good reasons. Alert is genuinely one of the best Aura-revealing Perks Survivor has access to. I love the Perk, yet I came to the conclusion that yes, it is a bit much compared to other ways you can reveal the Killer's Aura. Calm Spirit got BUFFED, but I specifically made it so it CAN'T work against Doctor because there should not be a single Perk that can completely neuter an entire Killer. It's like how Vigil kills Nemesis, Clown, and Freddy.
Right, and if this was just about their own Comeback thing you would not have brought in sprint burst. Like, if you are going to be nuking stuff unrelated to the chapter why not nuke other killers as well?
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Ehh nah, this would just make him awful to go against and removes all counterplay besides 'get lucky lol'. I think he'd be fine with just starting with all his traps and making Iri stone partially basekit at like 100 seconds.
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Yeesh nerfing alert and calm spirit tells me all I need to know about this… suggestion. Also bro, you can't nerf exhaustion perks without heavy nerfs to all S and A tier killers. This is just so hilariously biased that I can't take it seriously.