Trickster might need to move base speed when he is throwing knives. He's too slow otherwise.
Before the slowdown made sense because he was still normalish killer speed (faster than survivors) even after the slowdown- he at least could somewhat keep up. His new speed puts him at the 108%, one of the slowest in the game for killers, when he has his knives out. It's a bit unreasonable to expect killers to keep up when survivors have pallets, windows, a haste bonus on damage if the killer is almost the same speed as them. With "Made for this" survivors are only 5% slower than trickster when injured- meaning even a 3% haste can make this worse. He's slow, and I play trickster for when I want to fling alot of things really fast. I can't do that if there are at least 5 walls between me and them because anytime I try to use my power they practically gain distance. I'm not going to be so unreasonable as ask for something like his knives not providing the post-damage haste, but expecting us to keep up with survivors that are almost the same speed is ridiculous when we need multiple hits to do a single health state. This makes nemesis look A-tier. Huntress works at her speed because she can take a health state in one shot and has multiple attempts. We have so few knives you are lucky to get a single health state before needing to reload. Heck, Showstopper feels how I imagine it would be like to not worry about movespeed reduction and survivors STILL can avoid it relatively easily. His power feels like a hindrance EXCEPT when you are in . At least make "lucky blade" and/or "tequila moonrock" basekit so landing consecutive shots has worth. If this killer is going to be bad, they should at least be fun to play when things are going well. Right now, I can get a 2k with or without perks, but I can't have fun with him because he feels clunky. Not Trapper or Krasue levels, but bad enough that it hurts the experience.
Now, some of you are going to say "speed isn't necessary on a ranged killer". To that I respond: "How can I hit ranged attacks when every pallet of the 100 on the map provide enough cover I HAVE to catch up?" Seriously, I understand wanting to give survivors a means to protect themselves, but if I'm so slow that even basic looping becomes impossible, I'm stuck as an M1 killer most of the time. If I wanted M1 gameplay with a tacked on mechanic I would go sadako or Skull Merchant.
I know this comes off as a hissy fit, and I am angry, but I've waited what felt like 3 reworks to enjoy a killer whose basic concept SHOULD be fun. A ranged killer who relies on a barrage instead of accuracy to get his damage in. I can't even do that in his current state- I'm stuck as an M1 killer whose too slow to make that work with his power.
Comments
Tricksters is the only ranged killer who needs to hit multiple times that is 4.4 which makes zero sense. Even with the buffs making him 4.6 doesn't make him nearly as insane as people think he would be.
Imo give him a stacking speed increase from successful knife hits
He USED to be faster. They nerfed his movement speed, but they kept the slowdown when he gets ready to throw them, meaning they functionally double nerfed him in one sweep. They also reduced the knives he holds. They consistently reduce the amount of knives he has each time they do a pass over with him. It's a weirdly consistent throughline.
He needs to be 4.6 m/s. Every other multi hit ranged killer is 4.6 (artist and unknown). Or make ptb cut thru u single basekit. I know there will be so many detractors, people that just say get better and so on. But I made a forum post about this recently and it was about 2/3’s agree 4.6 and leave everything else the same is best place for Trickster and 1/3 didn’t agree. I’m just here to say I agree, add my vote to the tally and hope that if there’s enough continued activity about this in the forums that the devs won’t dig their heels in and keep him 110% or 4.4 m/s just because. I think every other change is perfect and healthy, but 4.4 on so many maps just makes me the worst m1 killer on maps where I essentially have no power.
You can either have him be 4.4 and require a low amount of knives to be thrown or 4.6 and require something like nine knives to get an injure. He gets a lot of free passive knives at 4.4 just because of how easy it is to get a few off with no cost.
4.4 on a killer with no map mobility just feels so bad. Getting pre ran held W at every turn is not fun.
I’d take 4.6 and 8 blades. I dunno where 9 came from I think maybe that was a typo. 4.4 is miserable and against good survs on a bad map, it just makes you have to proxy camp a lot of hooks which isn’t fun.
You’ve never done this to me, but so many people don’t want to acknowledge that reality as even possible and just want to say skill issue.
I’d say, if after all the hours I’ve put into him, if I know I won’t be able to effectively use my power because of map geometry and 4.4 on certain maps, why take the hard L and go on a pointless chase when my only option to reasonably bet on maintaining pressure is to force the survivors to come to me?
4.6 will free me up to try and keep up when the map just completely screws Line of Sight.
Trickster does not need to be base-kit 4.6 again.
Small sample size, but it illustrates my point. He is fine in the current form. So what if hitting people with M1's around 50/50's got a little harder, you just need to know proper zoning techniques. Also, there are a ton of loops that you can hit over, aside from a couple trees on Badham that has collision, despite having a large enough gap to allow for projectiles to pass through.
Though, I do think that changing "Cut Thru U" from the PTB to its current form was a bad idea, since traversing the map with 4.4 feels sluggish. They could have kept the PTB version, which rewarded you for maintaining a good combo, but also added the downside of draining the combos 50% faster (or normal speed when paired with the brown add-on).
PS: I'd love some input from @Shroompy on this
Okay bro, you did this on my post too and I’m going to take the time so you can’t in good faith just hand wave this with a stat picture. Again.
Stats do not tell the whole story or else Sadako would be S-tier and Nurse would be C-tier. So, deciding that your stats (from a sample size I pointed out is too small) should dictate what goes for a whole community is just wrong.
If you want to look only at stats, then I can gate keep you just as validly by saying you don’t play him enough because when we both showed stats I have 5 times as many games as you do. That also doesn’t count the comp setting scrims and customs I play with him.
I can point out so many spots on so many of the highest played maps where his power is invalidated entirely because of 4.4 IN ADDITION to the throw speed penalty. I do think the throw speed penalty is healthy and gives COUNTERPLAY because spamming blades has no skill expression. But, with this AND 4.4 meaning that in a straight line Trickster will close the same gap as a 4.6 killer 50% slower, it goes beyond giving COUNTERPLAY and makes the killer completely powerless in too many common situations. Now take into account looping and it’s ridiculous because everyone knows the hitbox size difference between killer and surv is WHY 4.4 abuse is a thing. So, if I’m forced to take chase, and there’s too many spots where LOS can be broken AND I don’t have M1 fundamentals to fall back on because of 4.4, the killer has been over corrected and is now entirely map dependent.
4.6 with no throw speed penalty was overtuned, 4.4 WITH throw speed penalty is over corrected.
But, I will make this simple for you if you’re soooo sure that your stats should end the conversation everytime (since you’ve done it twice now), find me on Discord. My name is the same as it is here. I’ll have you play against my swf. We’ll do 1v1’s on multiple maps at varying degrees of Trickster specific strength, we’ll do 4v1’s with DBD League Tier 3 global restrictions, I’ll record everything and post it to a shared Google Drive between us so nobody can say data was cherry picked or footage “got lost”. I’ll even offer you $100 if you come out the victor in this little experiment and I will publicly eat crow FOR YOU.
In Discord, so we’re not clogging up a slow forum system, we can go map, by map as many times as you wish and I’ll point out how too much of map design leaves too few areas where the killer at 4.4 has chase agency. Where a good survivor will truly never let you zone them and you can’t win the 50’s with M1 or power because he is TOO SLOW. To be followed up by you playing against my swf around each tile that we contest.
So either come prove me wrong or stop putting the same hand wavy, dismissive “well it hasn’t affected me so it isn’t a real issue” response in the Trickster conversation.
jordaj6 on discord buddy, I’ll be waiting with bells on.
Hes doesnt work as 4.4, he needs to be 4.6, especially because now he has less main events per match and 36 knifes instead 44. He simple is not fun as 4.4 he so much slow for everything, especially map pressure and with 36 knifes he is a locker simulator after this update. He was better before
I never enjoy facing a trickster. This killer is as boring to me as chess merchant. Tricksters always proxy camp or hard tunnel or stand in the middle of their 3 gen all game. The killer itself is just all around unfun.
The killer could afford to not proxy if they weren’t burdened with cinder blocks on their feet. I agree, as a P100 Trickster, it never feels good when that is my best option to have a chance to bring a match back.
He needs to be 4.6