JordaJ6
JordaJ6
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- JordaJ6
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Gotta say, most unexpected crashout I’ve ever seen. Bros feeling so griefed by a perk that can be turned off. I’m a 50/50 player before he goes on his “killer main bias” tangent.
Hexes should be strong because they can be turned off and one person running counterforce is enough to invalidate an entire build.
Breathe bro, it’s going to be okay.
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I think a fun mechanic could be after you leech a survivor you get a buff to your headlong flight exit cooldown and a buff to your head form vault speed for a certain amount of seconds, akin to Singularity’s Overclock mode.
I do enjoy her, and I think she would be in a fine enough spot if her head form vault wasn’t borderline useless now and would give her a chance to outplay pallets versus being forced to drop chase to break a pallet anytime it’s not a garbage filler. Instead of one flow chart per chase, it gives two if a pallet gets dropped which I feel actually gives more possibilities for outplays and counters which solves some of her bland gameplay without leaving survivors with no options again.Or, if fixing her could be profitable enough to get the devs to want to do it, if a leeched survivor vaults a pallet or a window, it leaves some type of effect on the vaulted object, similar to if Plague vomits on a pallet, and if Krasue follows after them within a small but actionable window, she gets the aforementioned vault buff so there is a manageable but not overwhelming chance she can outplay pallets in her head form.
Probably never going to happen, but I had fun writing this lmao.
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I feel you bro, but if you enjoy the game, play those killers for maybe 2-3 hours each, so you get a feel for what THEY want you to do in chase. Then you know what is going to slow them down in a chase.
If you’re not enjoying the game and are purely just frustrated, sorry bro, I dunno what to say. Those three particular killers aren’t strong and I’m a p100 Trickster main so I can speak on at least one of them.
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10 out of 10. Played 50/50 and got some great, hilarious and entertaining matches out of it. I love chaos Shuffle because as killer I’m not seeing shoulder the burden and 4 ds + plot twist and as surv I swear the killer variety I went up against was amazing. I dunno if that second point is my specific, limited experience or if anyone else is noticing a larger variety of killers going being played in this event.
TLDR; extended Chaos Shuffle and shove 2V8 <3
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Reactive Healing paired with Solidarity, allows you to tank hits, pick up survs against slugging killers and then tank more hits after. It’s a really odd anti-slug build that can get around endurance granting perks cooldowns and plus it leaves you less likely to be cornered with a killer just waiting out your MFT timer.
Video from my channel showing it in practice:
I really like this build because it does look like you’re cheating just a tiny bit.
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I play 50/50, and on both sides I think 4.4 should be relegated to only ranged killers. Just like head form Krause who is basekit 4.8, wolf form counts as a killer power and thus will never get bloodlust.
Yeah can the pounce have some proper bullshit at times? Absolutely, but it’s basically like a less flashy version of Wesker and Wesker is a darling of many player’s hearts. That being said, if a good Wesker or Wolf form Drac, forces you into certain positions, and they execute their power with competence there is actually nothing you can do. And that’s okay. Chases are meant to end eventually. Some maps suck for either side.
You just have to realize what areas you just don’t run into against certain killers. Sometimes you force them to m1 so you can take your distance to a spot where you know it’ll waste 30-seconds of time before you go down.
I feel your frustration I really do. But this game does have a steep and niche learning curve, but when it specifically comes to Wolf form Drac, his basekit movement speed and the effects of his scent orbs, I believe it’s really well balanced and allows that form to be used well against survivors who aren’t in their learning phase anymore.I hope the idea of playing against Wolfie like you would a Wesker can give you some fresh ideas in chase, but 4.4 is miserable and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone whose whole power isn’t ranged.
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@GameEnjoyment said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104137#Comment_4104137
Dang well I was hoping you would have something a little stronger but thats okay.
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@GameEnjoyment said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104132#Comment_4104132
Yeah, I think it can be a fun opportunity but, I think they general community would think otherwise. If you spend most your game on the ground, it stinks pretty bad but, if the survivors can find genuine counterplay and have an intense game with the killer that's great. It's just most of solo que survivors can't really find the counterplay. Maybe add an additional comment on what you find works.
Thank you for the feedback
Sure I’d be happy to share a few best practices to make slugging easier to work around.
-Once you are downed, focus on crawling to somewhere your teammates can help you, ideally a pallet but a window or tall tile can at least give them something to work with. Focus on recovering once you’re in a workable location.-If you crawl to a pallet, make sure you constantly adjust your position if your teammate in chase gets close to you so they have a reasonable chance to drop the pallet and force you onto their side and potentially stun the killer. Either way, this usually gives them enough time to finish your recovery and if they did get the stun, you’re both out of there and at least back in the game.
-Lastly, if you’re in a dead zone, or just in the inevitable bad spot, dying corner or as far away from where you think your teammates are, gives them as much time to reset and have every chance to come get you.
I hope this can be helpful, and this does require some patience I will concede that. I do feel for every solo queue champion who gets teammates that don’t know their ass from a hole in the ground, but if individually, we all try to get better, everyone has more fun. You can only focus on what’s in your control. Plus, when you follow these tips, there’s a chance your teammates accidentally do the right thing too, if you never set them up for success, when then slugging looks incredibly oppressive.
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I’m sure this will get downvoted, but I play 50/50 and as a surv, whether I’m with my seal team 6 of a swf or playing solo, I love when a killer tries to slug because it requires a change in play style and keeps me interested. Some of my favorite matches of all time have been from Blights who think they’re MomoSeventh trying to speedrun with a slug build.
I enjoy the challenge I swear I’m not rage baiting. Honestly, it takes some real stones from a killer to think they can down everyone fast enough to not hook at all and win.
Maybe I’m crazy for wanting the smoke, but I earnestly think if you could look at it as a chance to play against a different than normal play style and include some other things like, how many gens got done, how well did I position myself to get picked up, things about how close the match got vs “did I escape or did I die”, you might REALLY enjoy yourself because you’re enjoying more than just escape vs died.Sincerely,
Your average toxic Trickster and basic Sable player <3
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While I don’t think it should be permanent, I do agree that it feels nice as a killer to just really be focusing on my power and maybe doing something gimmicky to get value out of a dogshit perk and as a survivor to focus on my jiggies, my mindgames and the thrill of a chase. There’s something to be said for that. Actual relaxation on both sides.
Chaos Shuffle > 2v8.
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I actually think Counterforce is perfectly balanced. My bias is I almost exclusively play SWF when I play survivor, and I’m always the counterforce player but I view it has dedicating 1 of 16 perks I have to support me versus 1 of 4 for my solo queue warriors out there.
Counterforce is completely enough to absolutely melt the nastiest of hex builds, I think buffing it will make hex perks unplayable because they’re already glass cannons as they are.
I am also of the side I would like to see each side have more fun powerful ######### rather than constantly nerfing each others cool perks. Except for Shoulder the Burden gtfo with that mess.
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My biggest advice is to vary your builds so you can vary your intensity. Play some matches with your sweaty meta build, try to win, then throw in some matches with a gimmicky build like a haste build, or full aura reading build, or an endgame build, and just try to get value out of your build. Also, throw in some perkless add on less game to solely focus on your chosen killers basekit power.
This variance allows you actually have some substantial matches where you’re focused on how your performing rather than the cold hard numbers results at the end of a match. I promise if you try this, you’ll have more fun, get better at your killer regardless of match results, and your hair will stop turning white from the big bad survivors lol.
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Not calling anyone names, or contributing to us vs them, but here is a common scenario that I will proxy.
Survivor goes down on a defendable hook, in the open, or narrow lanes to be able to approach it, in the middle of my 3 or 4 gen, yeah I’m going to make that unhook hurt, I have zero reason to leave the general area. I won’t face camp it but I will be running people of the gens, returning to hook, take a health state (I play Trickster so I have the range), return to hook etc.
I’m just curious if the survivors who see this, would actually expect me not to proxy a hook like that if the exact situation happens. -
Unpopular opinion: I would be happier if I never saw Wesker again just because I find them boring to go against and they’re just the one killer I can’t adapt to. Not saying he’s broken or bs or anything, I just don’t enjoy the counterplay, and his chase music is obscenely loud to me which just gets annoying when you face 6 in a row. Throw Demo in there too, I just find them boring.
More of: Billy, Slinger, Huntress, Houndmaster, Cenobite, Skull Merchant, Artist, Twins, Krasue, obviously Trickster, and Hag. Maybe just more variety in general would be nice. I don’t mind Blight Nurse Ghoul and all the usual suspects minus Wesker. I would like to see more variety with the killers whose powers I don’t see all that often.
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It’s not smart to balance a killer around poor survivor plays, I’ve queued into X9, team slop and play scrim setting customs often with my swf, 4.4 can make this killer have no power.
If there’s nothing but tall loops and strong mains, where you can never maintain LOS, then you have no ability to even rely on M1 chase fundamentals. Then at 4.4 if there’s windows to keep resetting distance you can’t even effectively mindgame because you’re too slow and good survivors hold check spots like they should. Plus good old W key gamers will force you to commit to a chase, then camp/proxy, hope you have enough of game left to salvage in the 3v1, all because you can never catch up to disciplined survivors. I don’t have a problem with counterplay, I’m just stating my experience when I can tell survivors understand the assignment against my main.
Keep every other nerf and give him back 4.6. Artist and Unknown are the other multihit ranged killers and they’re 4.6 to make up for how badly their power can be nullified. Artist is even A tier on a good portion of lists but nobody complains that she can just walk you down if her power isn’t working.
I severely disagree on both sides with nerfs being around poor play, Trickster was overtuned before but now it’s a full overcorrection. Let killers have some agency in chase the survivors will be okay. Every other changed introduced more intuitive, more approachable counterplay, 4.4 turned this killer almost harmless if the map is bad and the survivors don’t make mistakes. -
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091989#Comment_4091989
I'd argue in modern DBD there are very few killers whose powers actually warrant them having slower movement speed.
If you made:
- Hag
- Huntress
- Trickster
- Deathslinger
All 4.6, it wouldn't suddenly make them overpowered.
Personally i still think making blight 4.4 is pointless. God tier blights are still gonna go on 2k win streaks all it does is make him harder to play for normies. So i would move him back up to 4.6 and nerf him in some other way that actually addresses the problem.
The only killers i think at this point warrant it is probably just nurse and henry (specifically because he is designed to be a mobile artillery). Even spirit these days probably isn't powerful enough to warrant a 4.4 movement speed. Arguably chucky works as a 4.4 because his hitbox is smaller, so the pain of being 4.4 isn't as bad as being 4.6, but even that might be worth testing and seeing if it even makes him that much stronger.
While I am tempted to fully agree, the biggest difference between Huntress and Death Slinger is if they win one interaction with their ranged power they win the health state, 4.4 while feeling dreadful isn’t completely handicapping in my opinion.
Artist, Unknown and Trickster need to land multiple projectiles in a specific time frame, but only one of them is 4.4 and doesn’t have a projectile that can work around the environment. Plus, Trickster has to reload his projectile, which is even more of time suck whereas Artist and Unknown have a cooldown.
It feels wildly inconsistent in game design philosophy. Especially after Jason is a 4.4, single hit per health state ranged killer and gets to be 4.6 for interacting with his power; I especially see zero reason why PTB Cut Thru U Single can’t be basekit if they don’t want to make him fully 4.6 again.
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Just add you to the list of people who see the problem. I’ve written a recent post and participated in another post in detail recently, and last I checked it’s about 2/3 in favor of 4.6 and 1/3 not in favor to be pragmatic about the detracting comments about it.
My take is, artist and unknown are the other multi hit projectile killers and they are 4.6 because of how badly LOS breakers can flat out deny your power. Artist can send crows through the environment and Unknown can bounce his off the environment WITH a mobility power to boot. 4.6.
Trickster needs the most hits, and direct LOS to injure. I think every single other update in the rework is healthy, gives balanced counterplay, punishes spammy low skill play. Fantastic.
But both slowing him for using his power AND making it so he can’t fall back on M1 chase fundamentals when the map plus legit survivor skill make your power impractical if not fully impossible to use is an over correction of what was an over tuned killer. The over tuned being 4.6, 8 blade main event, no throw speed slow down penalty Trickster.
Last note, nobody likes camping, was Trickster arguably the best at it? Probably, but you’ve made it so hard to be aggressive in chase with some of the most heavily weighted maps that it becomes the only choice if you care about kills and potentially winning. So at the higher levels of play he gets exponentially worse to play as and against because he will have to camp at least moderately.
TLDR; make him 4.6 and leave every other nerf, change and update the rework brought him.
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@ralecgos said:
I never enjoy facing a trickster. This killer is as boring to me as chess merchant. Tricksters always proxy camp or hard tunnel or stand in the middle of their 3 gen all game. The killer itself is just all around unfun.
The killer could afford to not proxy if they weren’t burdened with cinder blocks on their feet. I agree, as a P100 Trickster, it never feels good when that is my best option to have a chance to bring a match back.
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@wesker_shades said:
Trickster does not need to be base-kit 4.6 again.
Small sample size, but it illustrates my point. He is fine in the current form. So what if hitting people with M1's around 50/50's got a little harder, you just need to know proper zoning techniques. Also, there are a ton of loops that you can hit over, aside from a couple trees on Badham that has collision, despite having a large enough gap to allow for projectiles to pass through.https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RWABONESLTEC/trickster-stats-past-30-days-iii.png
Though, I do think that changing "Cut Thru U" from the PTB to its current form was a bad idea, since traversing the map with 4.4 feels sluggish. They could have kept the PTB version, which rewarded you for maintaining a good combo, but also added the downside of draining the combos 50% faster (or normal speed when paired with the brown add-on).
PS: I'd love some input from @Shroompy on thisOkay bro, you did this on my post too and I’m going to take the time so you can’t in good faith just hand wave this with a stat picture. Again.
Stats do not tell the whole story or else Sadako would be S-tier and Nurse would be C-tier. So, deciding that your stats (from a sample size I pointed out is too small) should dictate what goes for a whole community is just wrong.
If you want to look only at stats, then I can gate keep you just as validly by saying you don’t play him enough because when we both showed stats I have 5 times as many games as you do. That also doesn’t count the comp setting scrims and customs I play with him.
I can point out so many spots on so many of the highest played maps where his power is invalidated entirely because of 4.4 IN ADDITION to the throw speed penalty. I do think the throw speed penalty is healthy and gives COUNTERPLAY because spamming blades has no skill expression. But, with this AND 4.4 meaning that in a straight line Trickster will close the same gap as a 4.6 killer 50% slower, it goes beyond giving COUNTERPLAY and makes the killer completely powerless in too many common situations. Now take into account looping and it’s ridiculous because everyone knows the hitbox size difference between killer and surv is WHY 4.4 abuse is a thing. So, if I’m forced to take chase, and there’s too many spots where LOS can be broken AND I don’t have M1 fundamentals to fall back on because of 4.4, the killer has been over corrected and is now entirely map dependent.
4.6 with no throw speed penalty was overtuned, 4.4 WITH throw speed penalty is over corrected.
But, I will make this simple for you if you’re soooo sure that your stats should end the conversation everytime (since you’ve done it twice now), find me on Discord. My name is the same as it is here. I’ll have you play against my swf. We’ll do 1v1’s on multiple maps at varying degrees of Trickster specific strength, we’ll do 4v1’s with DBD League Tier 3 global restrictions, I’ll record everything and post it to a shared Google Drive between us so nobody can say data was cherry picked or footage “got lost”. I’ll even offer you $100 if you come out the victor in this little experiment and I will publicly eat crow FOR YOU.
In Discord, so we’re not clogging up a slow forum system, we can go map, by map as many times as you wish and I’ll point out how too much of map design leaves too few areas where the killer at 4.4 has chase agency. Where a good survivor will truly never let you zone them and you can’t win the 50’s with M1 or power because he is TOO SLOW. To be followed up by you playing against my swf around each tile that we contest.
So either come prove me wrong or stop putting the same hand wavy, dismissive “well it hasn’t affected me so it isn’t a real issue” response in the Trickster conversation.
jordaj6 on discord buddy, I’ll be waiting with bells on.
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@esarraf said:
You can either have him be 4.4 and require a low amount of knives to be thrown or 4.6 and require something like nine knives to get an injure. He gets a lot of free passive knives at 4.4 just because of how easy it is to get a few off with no cost.
I’d take 4.6 and 8 blades. I dunno where 9 came from I think maybe that was a typo. 4.4 is miserable and against good survs on a bad map, it just makes you have to proxy camp a lot of hooks which isn’t fun.
You’ve never done this to me, but so many people don’t want to acknowledge that reality as even possible and just want to say skill issue.
I’d say, if after all the hours I’ve put into him, if I know I won’t be able to effectively use my power because of map geometry and 4.4 on certain maps, why take the hard L and go on a pointless chase when my only option to reasonably bet on maintaining pressure is to force the survivors to come to me?
4.6 will free me up to try and keep up when the map just completely screws Line of Sight.
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While I think 4.6 needs to come back and every other nerf is healthy and perfect. I just wanted to say I appreciate the creative way you thought about the killer I love the most. I always love the chance to hear how others view potential changes in something I care about. Even through the moments when people just turn their brains off and call other internet strangers stupid. Thanks for sharing!
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He needs to be 4.6 m/s. Every other multi hit ranged killer is 4.6 (artist and unknown). Or make ptb cut thru u single basekit. I know there will be so many detractors, people that just say get better and so on. But I made a forum post about this recently and it was about 2/3’s agree 4.6 and leave everything else the same is best place for Trickster and 1/3 didn’t agree. I’m just here to say I agree, add my vote to the tally and hope that if there’s enough continued activity about this in the forums that the devs won’t dig their heels in and keep him 110% or 4.4 m/s just because. I think every other change is perfect and healthy, but 4.4 on so many maps just makes me the worst m1 killer on maps where I essentially have no power.
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Trickster 4.6. Artist and Unknown (the other multihit projectile killers) are 4.6. Why make the one that needs sustained LOS 4.4-abusable.
I did just make a long forum post about this so I’m not gonna log another tome in this nice person’s post. Please don’t shred me for not having all the nuanced and think about both sides reasons here. I promise they’re in my other post lmao. -
@wesker_shades said:
Trickster doesn't need to be 4.6
But I kinda agree on the PTB "Cut Thru U" single coming back, as it actually rewarded you for maintaining the combo.Anyways, I find 4.4 Trickster fine to play, and this is my current 30-day average:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IF7QKA0QT9DU/trickster-stats-past-30-days-ii.png
PS: I'd like to hear @Shroompy's take on this
For what it might be worth here is mine. Off the rip I clearly slug more than you lol. Jokes aside, I think the stats don’t tell the whole story because they don’t show I win 8-9 in a row then lose 4-5 in a row. The volatility of the killer feels dreadful and when the sample size gets larger, I’m curious if you’d run into the same trend. Wacek says 4.4 is fine but he also says don’t listen to him because he’s “just good with the character” and won’t be indicative of what the general experience is with him. Nice stats tho you play well <3
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I would absolutely hope for PTB Cut Thru U single, I feel like it’s the most in the middle possible and still have no idea why it didn’t make it to live. The killer has to earn the haste, it’s a big enough commitment by taking up an add-on slot and after main event it’s set back to 4.4. That is if, basekit 4.6 is never coming back.
Possibly, if they make the stackable haste basekit tied to the rank system that’d be another great option too. But, I’m realistically dreaming there. -
I think Spirit can force a lot of 50/50’s and it can feel grating to some to constantly be losing them. Plus, the counterplay is not beginner or even intermediate friendly. Maybe some people have such a strong reaction for when prayer beads were still a thing too.
Krause definitely was the best tunneler in the game before the infection removal upon hook mechanic was added. And the projectile’s auto-aim was ridiculous even by my lenient standards upon release too. Then some people hated the vaulting in head form. I think if they just retweaked the head vaulting speed slightly upwards, she’d be perfectly balanced. Rn, I think people that complain loudly about her are just remembering release Krasue too strongly. -
I personally think as things are, the combo is finely-tuned. DMS procs get intentionally tied to non-priority gens by coordinated swfs, and even in solo queue after a little bit of play time, survs should be able to preemptively let go of gen after a surv has been picked up in anticipation of the combo.
If you don’t have the luxury of playing in swf, and you’re near a low progress gen, you can try yourself to proc the DMS so your team can continue to work on the more important gens.
I’m a 50/50 player, and I think killers have too few good perk synergies anymore to continue to take options away without dialing back some of the more oppressive survivor synergies. Ie, hyperfocus/stakeout, plot twist/DS, Shoulder being able to deny death hook and give a deliverance player the ability to use it later if they got first chase.
Last thing, I think the best nerf for Shoulder could be that it can only be used on someone who has been hooked back-to-back times. -
@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086449#Comment_4086449
I was gonna say a bounty system and he gets a buff for chasing whos Wanted: currently.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/G87TZYT1LR2C/1000014888.jpg
This would be AWESOME. I main Trickster and switch to Slinger for variety’s sake. I do think 4.4 makes sense on Slinger while it doesn’t on Trickster.
Huntress and Slinger take health states off a successful use of their power. 4.4. Trickster, Unknown, and Artist need multiple hits in quick succession with their projectile to take a health state with each projectile having intuitive counterplay. Unknown and Artist are 4.6. Trickster moved down to 4.4.
But the bounty idea sounds like an absolute banger. -
I just think Trickster at his strongest scenarios can objectively feel oppressive and he really has no cooldown between taking health states if he catches a surv in a bad spot. In some places, he’s the best two-tapper in the game.
I think that’s the long standing perception of him and what people remember the most during any conversations about him. I get that, but without resorting to us vs. them, that’s just the reality of some matches that one misstep can snowball. But snowballing isn’t unique to Trickster either. I don’t think it’s quite fair to judge a character too much off their objective best scenario.
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@Angy_Quentin said:
The devs decided to change trickster in a way, that lifts him from the shallow depths of anti-loop slop to an actually pretty interesting design.
Not very fun to play against, but better than before.
Trickster got worse in chase, but way better at area control and proxy camping. You basically want to get a single hook/down and play around it by lingering around the hook/down and building S-tier. If you got the option to main event it's crucial to hold it for an unhook/pickup and punish the unhook/pickup heavily. If the survivors are forced to group trickster thrives.
Luck builds to self unhook, wicked and deliverance while everyone else sits on gens are the only situations he can't really answer.
100% valid, but I would hope that more people would like to see a Trickster that will chase more aggressively and camp less. I feel like 4.4 specifically makes that much less likely to happen. I agree with every other change being healthy and balanced to make Trickster rewarding to play as and interesting to play against.
It does also align more consistently with the other multi-hit ranged killers being 4.6.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086446#Comment_4086446
You… mean bloodlust?
I mean, if you throw 1 blade that negates all bloodlust, then after 15 seconds you’re only just at 4.6 and only just fast enough to force a pallet drop. Plus, good survivors know how to manage bloodlust too, so it can contribute to a loop on several maps where the power has no effective answer, and m1 isn’t efficient at 4.4 and bloodlust is constantly reset.
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@TropesDaMan said:
damn. thats a long discussion but im an a avid reader so. They need to change his speed back to 4.6. he is litearlly garbage on his own map which is ironic cuz his entire moral, is that everything that has to do with him is perfect
I know it’s probably too long but I wanted to convey that I thought about this a lot and I’m not just complaining or yapping. He’s my favorite killer and I just hate to see him become more of a glass cannon.
I want to see this killer be able to keep pace with good swf’s and intense matches. But through dynamic adaptation in chase to the skill level of the survivors, not through, “okay I’m so slow I’m just going to camp and hope I can snowball”. I actually agree that main event shouldn’t be able to be used near a hook either. Camping doesn’t feel good for anyone. If they’re being honest.