Trickster’s design and map design don’t align with 4.4
I want to discuss Trickster’s current 4.4 m/s movement speed and why I believe it no longer aligns with how his power functions in the modern game.
To be clear, this is not a post arguing that Trickster is weak or incapable of winning. Plenty of Trickster players still achieve strong results. The issue is whether his movement speed properly reflects the requirements of his power compared to other ranged killers.
The fundamental difference between Trickster and killers such as Huntress or Deathslinger is that Huntress and Deathslinger only need to win a single interaction to secure a health state.
A Huntress can play around a corner, force one mistake, land one hatchet, and immediately earn value.
A Deathslinger can win one mindgame, land one shot, and immediately earn value.
Both killers can have line of sight denied by map geometry, but because they only require a single successful projectile hit, they can still threaten survivors around strong structures while operating at 4.4 m/s.
Trickster does not function this way.
Trickster requires sustained line of sight over time.
Winning one interaction is often not enough.
Winning two interactions is often not enough.
He frequently needs multiple seconds of uninterrupted visibility to build enough laceration to secure an injury.
That requirement becomes increasingly problematic against strong survivors because modern map design is filled with structures that repeatedly break line of sight.
Survivors can:
- Hug tall walls
- Rotate around jungle gyms
- Maximize elevation changes
- Use connected structures
- Chain together long-wall loops
Every time this happens, Trickster’s progress is interrupted.
The issue is not that survivors are counterplaying him. Counterplay should exist.
But, with Gen spreads and the dynamics of a match, the option to just never take a chase to a strong main or shack or something like Docks in the Backwater Swamp maps doesn’t exist in practice.
The issue is that his power requires sustained visibility while the game increasingly provides opportunities to deny sustained visibility.
Counterplay Is Good. Dependence Is Not.
I want to be very clear here.
I am not asking for maps to become easier for Trickster.
I think it is healthy for Dead by Daylight to have structures that counter specific killer powers.
Just as there are areas that are strong against Huntress, Billy, Artist, Nurse, and other killers, there should absolutely be areas that are strong against Trickster.
There should be loops where throwing blades is inefficient.
There should be structures where survivors can deny line of sight.
That is good game design.
The problem is not that these structures exist.
The problem is that Trickster has become disproportionately dependent on whether they exist.
When I encounter an area that heavily denies blades, I don’t mind abandoning my power temporarily.
What I mind is not having a reliable fallback.
If a structure is designed to counter blades, I should at least be able to rely on standard 4.6 m/s M1 chase fundamentals until the survivor leaves that area.
Instead, Trickster often finds himself in situations where both his power and his movement speed are working against him simultaneously.
The power is being denied by the structure.
The movement speed prevents him from effectively compensating through basic chase.
At that point, the map is not simply countering his power.
The map is countering his entire character.
That is why certain maps feel dramatically different on Trickster compared to most killers.
The issue isn’t whether blades should work everywhere.
They shouldn’t.
The issue is whether Trickster retains enough baseline strength to function when blades are temporarily unavailable.
At 4.6 m/s, he did.
At 4.4 m/s, that safety net largely disappears.
Other Ranged Killers Receive Compensation
This is where comparisons become important.
Unknown is 4.6 m/s.
Artist is 4.6 m/s.
Both killers have multi hit projectiles that can be denied.
Both killers can lose pressure when survivors understand how to interact with their powers.
Yet both retain 4.6 movement speed because their powers are not considered reliable enough to justify a permanent 4.4 penalty.
The same logic should apply to Trickster.
In fact, I would argue Trickster is even more dependent on maintaining visual contact than either of those killers.
If a survivor dodges an Unknown shot, Unknown can immediately threaten again.
If a survivor avoids an Artist bird, Artist can immediately threaten again.
When Trickster loses line of sight, his entire injury sequence is delayed because his power relies on accumulation rather than individual impact.
He is uniquely punished for every interruption.
My Issue Isn’t With The Rest Of The Rework
Ironically, I actually like most of the other changes.
I think reducing blade count places greater emphasis on accuracy.
I think slowing Trickster while spam throwing introduces commitment and decision making.
I think Main Event being tied to sustained performance rewards strong macro play rather than existing as a passive bonus.
I think there are a lot of genuinely good ideas in the current version of the character.
My only concern is specifically the movement speed.
Movement speed is what determines whether a killer can still play standard Dead by Daylight when their power is unavailable.
If survivors bring me to a structure that heavily denies blades, I should still be able to rely on solid M1 fundamentals until they leave that area.
That was possible at 4.6 m/s.
At 4.4 m/s, many of those situations become far more dependent on the specific map, the specific tile, and whether line of sight exists at all.
The result is that Trickster’s performance often feels less connected to how well I play and more connected to whether the map allows me to use my power in the first place.
Conclusion
I am not asking for infinite blades.
I am not asking for easier downs.
I am not asking for stronger Main Events.
I am not asking for the removal of counterplay.
Maps should have areas that are strong against Trickster.
Survivors should be rewarded for breaking line of sight.
The issue is what happens after they successfully do so.
When Trickster’s power is denied, he needs enough baseline movement speed to continue functioning as a killer through normal chase fundamentals.
Right now, he often does not have that option.
A killer whose power requires sustained line of sight should not simultaneously be burdened with a movement speed that makes maintaining that line of sight unnecessarily difficult.
If Trickster is going to remain a character whose power depends on prolonged visual contact, then he should have the movement speed necessary to remain effective when that visual contact inevitably disappears.
I genuinely look forward to any interaction and discourse about this. If you took the time to read this and respond, thank you. Whether you agree or disagree with me.
Comments
damn. thats a long discussion but im an a avid reader so. They need to change his speed back to 4.6. he is litearlly garbage on his own map which is ironic cuz his entire moral, is that everything that has to do with him is perfect
I know it’s probably too long but I wanted to convey that I thought about this a lot and I’m not just complaining or yapping. He’s my favorite killer and I just hate to see him become more of a glass cannon.
I want to see this killer be able to keep pace with good swf’s and intense matches. But through dynamic adaptation in chase to the skill level of the survivors, not through, “okay I’m so slow I’m just going to camp and hope I can snowball”. I actually agree that main event shouldn’t be able to be used near a hook either. Camping doesn’t feel good for anyone. If they’re being honest.
Terrible map, one of worst they ever made only thing positive about it is looks and desing but thats where sll positive things end for this srew up map that automaticaly nerfs ranged 4,4 killers.
Fully agree with your points about why Trickster should be 4.6. I see you got a bunch of downvotes but nobody bothered actually stating why they don’t agree with your opinion. Typical
I don't understand why is defined weakness needs to be made irrelevant by having him be 4.6, that was the entire reason they changed it.
It would be more understandable if the majority of maps were bad for him, but no killer should be good on every map, and the maps he struggles on are in a healthy minority.
I would recommend making your post shorter by not hitting enter after every sentence and instead do it after every paragraph. But other than that I think 4.4 would be fine if they reverted him to his previous blade count, even if I try to not waste them I still find myself running out.
Yeah I main a 4.4 and Trickerster's Delusion is my worst map. I might as well just try to farm when I load into that one. That doesn't mean the killer needs a buff though. The ranged 4.4s have every advantage on open maps. If he gets buffed to 4.6 then something else has to go, and then the rework becomes pointless.
Al they should fo to trickster and huntress is to make the 4,6 after they havf no projectiles left because lockers are so dam unreliable as part of the power for slower killers.
The devs decided to change trickster in a way, that lifts him from the shallow depths of anti-loop slop to an actually pretty interesting design.
Not very fun to play against, but better than before.
Trickster got worse in chase, but way better at area control and proxy camping. You basically want to get a single hook/down and play around it by lingering around the hook/down and building S-tier. If you got the option to main event it's crucial to hold it for an unhook/pickup and punish the unhook/pickup heavily. If the survivors are forced to group trickster thrives.
Luck builds to self unhook, wicked and deliverance while everyone else sits on gens are the only situations he can't really answer.
That's an accurate and honest opinion. I don't understand why anyone would disagree.
There should be an option to switch to a 4.6m/s M1-only mode to avoid situations where using power makes the game impossible.
The spring trap, which is not actually needed, has an M1 mode.
To avoid becoming too powerful, it's a good idea to slow down significantly when switching gears.
You… mean bloodlust?
They don't even need to make him 4.6, they need to reduce the number of knives he needs to hit, his throw speed and the number of knives he can carry so accuracy is more important and also rewarded more while also reducing his need to sustain contact over complex map geometry. If they could also make his reticle a basekit option instead of an addon slot it would help a lot (especially on console where third party software isn't really an option).
I mean, if you throw 1 blade that negates all bloodlust, then after 15 seconds you’re only just at 4.6 and only just fast enough to force a pallet drop. Plus, good survivors know how to manage bloodlust too, so it can contribute to a loop on several maps where the power has no effective answer, and m1 isn’t efficient at 4.4 and bloodlust is constantly reset.
100% valid, but I would hope that more people would like to see a Trickster that will chase more aggressively and camp less. I feel like 4.4 specifically makes that much less likely to happen. I agree with every other change being healthy and balanced to make Trickster rewarding to play as and interesting to play against.
It does also align more consistently with the other multi-hit ranged killers being 4.6.
I just think Trickster at his strongest scenarios can objectively feel oppressive and he really has no cooldown between taking health states if he catches a surv in a bad spot. In some places, he’s the best two-tapper in the game.
I think that’s the long standing perception of him and what people remember the most during any conversations about him. I get that, but without resorting to us vs. them, that’s just the reality of some matches that one misstep can snowball. But snowballing isn’t unique to Trickster either. I don’t think it’s quite fair to judge a character too much off their objective best scenario.
Yeah, you are saying you want an option if somehow you literally can't get someone. Well… there it is. If you are being outplayed that hard then deal with it.
I personally tend to agree. The reduction to 4.4 can feel pretty rough on Trickster when survivors pre-run or can break LOS effectively with the map + tiles that have been randomly selected.
I've also noticed an increase in how frequently I run out of blades mid-chase compared to pre-rework. Not all the time, but with enough frequency that I'm noticing it happening.
It's like they've dialed up the likelihood of needing to go for M1s from multiple directions while simultaneously making them comparatively harder to get.
Post rework I generally go into Trickster matches assuming they're going to be a slog which is a shame because I really don't feel that way about any other killers I commonly play.
if all the factors making trickster feel weak right now align he genuinely just feels unpleasant to play, like to the extent i literally just want to turn the game off
chasing a survivor around a strong loop at 4.4 without any realistic path to use your power on them, then because of the pallet doubling update they can just chain directly to another strong loop you also cant use your power on. even with 4.6 m1 killers you know the assignment and can try and play around some of the pallets, but trickster on certain maps genuinely feels powerless
BHVR should just give him a 4.6 add-on that requires increased hits like before. It would allow those who prefered is 4.6 version to play him closer to how he was before, without messing with those who like him as 4.4 and his new power.
theres no universe where this isnt the best addon in the game and entirely mandatory
I would absolutely hope for PTB Cut Thru U single, I feel like it’s the most in the middle possible and still have no idea why it didn’t make it to live. The killer has to earn the haste, it’s a big enough commitment by taking up an add-on slot and after main event it’s set back to 4.4. That is if, basekit 4.6 is never coming back.
Possibly, if they make the stackable haste basekit tied to the rank system that’d be another great option too. But, I’m realistically dreaming there.
Trickster doesn't need to be 4.6
But I kinda agree on the PTB "Cut Thru U" single coming back, as it actually rewarded you for maintaining the combo.
Anyways, I find 4.4 Trickster fine to play, and this is my current 30-day average:
PS: I'd like to hear @Shroompy's take on this
For what it might be worth here is mine. Off the rip I clearly slug more than you lol. Jokes aside, I think the stats don’t tell the whole story because they don’t show I win 8-9 in a row then lose 4-5 in a row. The volatility of the killer feels dreadful and when the sample size gets larger, I’m curious if you’d run into the same trend. Wacek says 4.4 is fine but he also says don’t listen to him because he’s “just good with the character” and won’t be indicative of what the general experience is with him. Nice stats tho you play well <3
I actually like 4.4 Trickster but I know many don't and wish for a 4.6 option. Add-on would be very popular I'm sure and seems like the easiest solution for BHVR. Maybe in 5 years BHVR will get around to looking at it.