dugman
dugman
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@Lenox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2817485#Comment_2817485
Lul. I was about to respond to your other post while I threw my calculator out the window for not understanding. Friday brain melted from work.
I'd expect the 2.7 kills per match to translate to a 68% kill rate.
Yep, 68% in the corrected versions above.
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@Lenox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2817450#Comment_2817450
I'm trying to wrap my head around how it's 2.7 kills per match but only a 45% kill rate. Can you explain the data?
Lol, I figured it out, I'm an idiot, I had the pivot set to "Count" instead of "Sum" for the number of kills. I'll edit the posts with the right numbers.
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@Lenox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2817450#Comment_2817450
I'm trying to wrap my head around how it's 2.7 kills per match but only a 45% kill rate. Can you explain the data?
He has 409 total survivors killed and 508 escaped. Disregarding DCs, that's 45% kills and 55% escapes.
Looking at his kills per match above, out of the 408 matches shown his average is 2.7 kills per match (he has a lot of 4 kills matches and 3 kill matches).
Here's his escape rates per match for comparison (notice they add up to 3.9 instead of 4, the difference would be the DCs.)
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2817441#Comment_2817441
Wow! Thats awesome! Thanks mate. You obviously know much more exel and sheets magic then pleb me :)
Yeah, it's a blessing and a curse. 😄
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Kills per Match
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Survivor perk use percentages
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And kill rates by killer
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I took the liberty of fixing up some typos and pivoting your data a bit. Here's your kill rates by map
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@ManyAchievables said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2817225#Comment_2817225
Put 2% movement speed into perspective.
5% movement speed is 0.2 m/s. 2% is 0.08 m/s. You go from 4 m/s to 4.08 m/s. When within a 24-meter range of a loud boon. That you have to set up for at least 14 seconds. What a terrible perk, genuinely.
I know it doesn’t sound like much, but whether or not someone makes a vault can be a matter of tiny distances sometimes. It wouldn’t alter most chases but if it even impacts 2 chases in the course of 20 chases in a match it’s gotten some value.
Also to put this in perspective, say a survivor has a 5 meter distance on a typical killer moving 4.6 m. (5 meters is a little less than the width of the shack.) If the survivor runs at standard 4.00 m/s then the killer will take 8.3 seconds to catch up. If the survivor is moving 4.08 m/s though it takes 9.6 seconds to catch up. That’s 1.3 extra seconds the survivor has to reach a vault or pallet and gain distance, which at that speed means they can run an additional 5 meters, almost another shack’s worth of distance.
It’s even more dramatic looking at the slower killers that move 4.4. Where normally a killer at that speed needs 12.5 seconds to catch someone 5 meters distant, it becomes 15.6 seconds with the survivor going 4.08 m/s. That’s a 3.1 second gap, which is 12 extra meters, an entire tile and then some!
Of course a big limitation on the Boon is its range is only a 24 meter radius. So if survivor tried to just hold W and go forward at that speed they’d be out of range pretty quickly. But assuming there are a couple of loops in range of the Boon it could give a survivor just enough of an edge on distances to hit vaults they otherwise might miss.
I will say, though, all this would be outweighed by misplays on either side. If a killer or survivor is running on a suboptimal path that could easily outweigh the differences above. So this speed difference would most likely be felt at higher skill levels where neither side makes too many misplays in a chase and things like Dead Hard for distance to reach a pallet or vault become even more valuable. Essentially this Boon is giving the survivor a Dead Hard’s worth of distance potentially over time between vaults or between tiles in the chase. It’s not as flashy as getting it all in one burst of speed but it is still extra distance.
Anyway, I just got curious enough about the actual math of it I figured I’d follow up. 🙂 I seriously doubt that Boon will become meta, but I do think it’s probably better than some people might think.
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@ManyAchievables said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2814819#Comment_2814819
The one on the PTB is actually worthless. One of the worst perks in the game as it is.
To be fair, I have a feel that new Boon's 2% movement speed buff might be slightly underrated. I could see it maybe giving a survivor or two per match an extra vault if they're looping near the Boon. And really that's about as much extra time granted as some exhaustion perks tend to give. Even Dead Hard only typically gives one or two extra vaults per match probably for instance but it's considered really powerful. So the new Boon may be ok. Not exciting, probably not great or anything, but maybe an average perk (maybe) 🤷♂️
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I agree that people tend to jump to conclusions prematurely, but at the same time I disagree that there's not enough information to form preliminary opinions on Sadako and what her potential strengths and weaknesses might be. I think there's enough gameplay so far of her to point to areas that, if the data indicates she needs to be buffed, we might expect a change to happen. Notably
- It seems like survivors are finding that the Condemned status is pretty easily dealt with either by turning off the TV near the generator you're working on before starting it, or ignoring it altogether until you're much closer to 7 stacks and then dealing with it at that point. The former strategy though might be the better one since it negates Sadako's ability to teleport directly to your gen which makes it a bit easier to keep working on it and run to safety if she approaches on foot. Yes, periodically going to a TV to remove your curse stacks takes 10 seconds or so, but you rarely have to do it if she's not able to consistently project through TVs near you.
- So if she needs a buff this would probably be an area to focus on. Reducing the TV cooldowns to, say, 30 or 45 seconds would be the most straightforward fix because it's a numerical tweak that's easy to program, it helps ensure Sadako has better access to televisions throughout the match, and it also increases the rate that survivors gain stacks through Projection which makes the stacks more of a threat that needs to be handled on a continuing basis.
- Outside of the Condemned ability, her stealth is sounding pretty solid, which is good! She doesn't have any anti-loop ability per se, but because she moves at full speed while Demanifesting and just under survivor speed while Manifesting she can use her stealth a bit more freely in chase than Wraith does. Additionally, because she has lingering flickering invisibility after Manifesting, it can help her mindgames when the survivor loses line of sight and doesn't know if she's backtracked or if she's continued chasing but is temporarily invisible. So she might not need a buff in this area, although there's no consensus yet on this either way.
- Streamer opinions on her are still overall mixed but seem to put her between average and above average, mainly depending on how much they think that invisibility helps in a chase and how easy they think it is for survivors to keep her televisions shut off without worrying too much about building up Condemned status.
So yeah, I do agree that "doom and gloom" isn't warranted. Broadly speaking most people seem to think she seems fun to play, and most of the people who point out potential weaknesses in her kit don't seem to think that they're game breaking. And if the data does show she's particularly weak a numerical reduction of her TV cooldowns would probably be a solid, easy to implement adjustment.
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👏😭
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I don't remember what the original post is talking about but I remember a while back they talked about revamping moris and keys and eventually all mori offerings were changed to require the survivor to have been hooked twice and keys were changed to not allow multiple people to escape via a key.
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It might have to do with the PTB being a patch that has to be downloaded and patches on consoles require certification by the platform.
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I like the run animations. The yelling "Help" would get a little irritating.
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Tricycle Billy because it pedals in its animation. 🙂
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I played other games last year, not because I dislike DbD or anything, just part of a typical cycle of trying new stuff out.
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Cool stuff. 🙂
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Most of the complaints about NOED are just people who don’t realize the game isn’t over when the gens are done. The Exit stage of the game is just as valid as the prior stages and there’s nothing cheap about perks that give killers advantages at the very end of the game. NOED is basically just an Exposed granting perk along the lines of Haunted Grounds that happens to give the free down or two at the end of the match. In fact if anything free downs earlier in the game have a better chance of snowballing into a 4 kill than free downs at the very end of the game, yet it’s NOED that gets the most complaints because survivors feel “robbed of victory” since they thought they already won when that last gen popped.
NOED is a decent perk, but if there was actually statistical evidence it significantly increased kill rates it would have been nerfed a long time ago.
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@Krimbar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2816736#Comment_2816736
That's true yeah. I wouldn't mind either if they removed them, but that wouldn't fix these maps, that's a different problem.
For sure, it doesn’t fix problems in those maps, but it does mean those problems crop up in a smaller percentage of the games.
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I agree with the TLDR - “win more” perks are as a rule of thumb a bad idea, the better perks are ones that give more consistent benefits when the player is losing to help them catch up.
A good example on the killer side is Dying Light, since out of the gate it gives the survivors a bonus and gives the killer nothing at all. It takes a few hooks before the perk actually gives the killer enough of a boost to make up for that initial penalty. Eventually if the killer does well it can lock in the victory by giving the survivors a sizable penalty, but it does worse than nothing and actually hurts the killer if they’re losing. Ideally that perk should be tweaked to either remove the bonus the Obsession gets or to give the killer a base 5% to 10% gen slowdown right out of the gate at the start of the match to offset that Obsession’s bonus. That way the perk at least is at least not hurting the killer at the start and can help if they’re behind a bit but not getting stomped.
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Personally I’d be happy if they just removed map offerings altogether. They cause more problems than any minor benefit they give. In particular they exacerbate map imbalances and exploits by allowing people who want to abuse them to just keep pulling those maps up over and over. The recent Boil Over issue on RPD for instance was bad and was made even worse because people who wanted to really drill into that exploit could just keep going to that map repeatedly. If there were no map offerings then when a serious exploit or imbalance pops up in a map it at least keeps the number of matches where that becomes a problem to a minimum.
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Just to clarify, hook trading is good strategy IF you do it as late as possible before the hook advances a stage. So if a killer is guarding a hook, and a survivor has Borrowed Time and saves someone 50 seconds into their first hook, then that’s a solid play because it means all the killer got out of that 50 seconds was one first hook on a second survivor while the remaining survivors did gens.
Hook trading instantly after a hook is made is dumb. If a killer hooks someone, walks 10 steps and hears a rescue behind them, that’s an incredibly inefficient rescue. You basically are just giving the killer a free hook in 15 seconds or whatever doing that. It’s not sustainable.
So there is a balance between trading to prevent hook stages from progressing because of no rescue at all and rescuing way too soon when the killer is still in the area.
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“Tunneling” is a bogus complaint, it’s literally survivors complaining when they’ve been down two or three times in a row. I get called a tunneler randomly in after game chats by survivors who simply happened to be the ones I found and downed first for instance and it’s obvious it’s simply a buzzword built by sore losers.
Literal Face Camping is a more legitimate game issue because, if face camping were a viable strategy to win the game, then it would be a dull game loop of a killer downing someone, standing at a hook for two minutes with no action on either side, and then maybe doing it again even on the second survivor to some extent. The only thing that makes this less prevalent currently is it’s typically more time efficient not to just face camp but to proactively find and chase survivors so that at most one survivor is doing the gens at a given moment. The devs have indicated a couple of times they actively experiment internally with ways to disincentivize face camping but to date hadn’t had luck with a solution that didn’t break something else in the gameplay. They hinted they are considering maybe making Borrowed Time base kit, in which case they would probably pair it with a broad killer buff like slightly increasing the time it takes to complete gens to keep the scales balanced, but who knows if or when that would happen?
Beyond that, other types of “camping” are bogus complaints, it’s basically just complaining about zone defense at that point. I had a survivor complain about me “camping the gens” for instance, even the other survivors mocked that guy.
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All killers are supposed to be able to catch survivors 100% of the time in a reasonable amount of time if both the killer player and survivor player are equally skilled. If the survivor is capable of indefinitely evading the killer by simply reacting to what the killer does and running accordingly then that is bad design because it means that killer would never get any downs, or at least never get enough downs to actually knock anyone out of the game, against survivors their own skill level.
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The broad consensus is she’s on the weak side so I seriously doubt the data will indicate she’ll be nerfed. They’ll either leave her alone or buff her. And if they buff her my guess would be they’d reduce the TV cooldown time since doing that would both help keep her teleporting the whole game and increase the rate survivors build up Condemned status.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2813357#Comment_2813357
you wouldn't pick a perk to give exposed, you'd pick a killer who already has exposed. An example of killer that has exposed base-kit is Hillbilly. Why bother using situational exposed perks when you can just play a killer that has 100% up-time on exposed.
I mean if you've watched trapper mains like otz or hag mains like michi who main hag. these killers that are largely territorial are based around 3 generator gameplay. those player don't use expose perks. expose perks are just not good. a more reliable way for non-instant down killers to capitalize off 3 generators is running stbfl. Hag mains run it because it shorten cooldown of m1 attack allowing them to chain-teleporter easier and it keeps survivors more claustrophobic towards one area which is important for trapping based killer. trapper's do this as well for exact same reason. if you pick an instant down killer than you do not need stbfl.
3 generator strategies are all about claustrophobia gameplay that often revolves around abusing narrow map design(like azeroth resting place) and unlimited regression. The reason 3 generator strategies do not really work vs high-level teams is because killers have pathetic level of base regression on generators. The only way to regress generator's infinitive is through skill-checks like overcharge but good survivors won't miss skill-checks. that's why this stuff mostly labeled as rank 20 strategies, but now a days, we do not have ranks, so I'd just call low MMR in modern day.
If you ask me, new Ringu killer is like... rank 20 balancing/killer design and rank 20 perk design. Do they seriously think that survivors are going to get mori by directional audio TV teleporting? Do you think anyone going to get fooled by passive spirit phasing as a power at loops? The people saying she is fine without anti-loop are complete fools. It is like watching comedy.
Fyi Michi always uses Make Your Choice, it’s his favorite perk.
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📸 😱😈 🔪
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@Milo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2815153#Comment_2815153
Yeah, that's why either an additional effect or it also working for hexes would be fine.
Exhaustion is a good effect if they have a bunch of exhaustion perks but does nothing if they don’t.Except, perks that give exhaustion (which is like... two, wow) give some additional effect. The effect... sucks, but it's there. The exception are the add-ons, which, I also think should do something above giving exhaustion on those super rare occasions no one has an exhaustion perk.
Perks that give you Exposed hits or that slow healing only work if the survivors bother to heal.But that isn't dependent on survivor's loadouts. It's their gameplay. You could technically make an arguement like that for most perks depending on the situation in the match. (gens, gates, hooks perks)
I would argue that loadouts are part of overall gameplay. What loadout a survivor brings to the match is part of their overall strategy for the match.
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Playing survivor definitely takes skill and I say that as a killer main. There is definitely a skill spectrum among survivors I face. Some I can trounce, some seem to know basic but make mistakes at loops that I can take advantage of, some are good loopers but overly altruistic or focus too much on trying to get me to chase them or going to gimmick plays rather than doing gens, and some survivors are clearly skilled and can beat me at loops and if I don’t continuously pressure them also stay on the gens and remain useful to their overall goal of getting out.
And on the flip side, since I hardly ever play survivor, the few times I do I can immediately tell I’m terrible. I miss skill checks sometimes, I mistime vaults, I have trouble using the third person camera, I’m just bad all around because I don’t practice it. Mentally I know enough that I still get more done than someone who is brand new (I know when to stay on gens, I know to try and run away from gens if I’m chased, I know not to immediately run to a rescue the instant someone is hooked, etc.) But I’m definitely in the low skill part of the spectrum as a survivor.
So yes, playing survivor definitely takes skill. You can debate how much time it takes to develop enough skill to be a top notch survivor, whether survivors are easier or harder to learn than killers, or whether the game as a whole is easier to learn than other multiplayer competitive games. But this absolutely isn’t a skillless game, the great majority of matches are decided by player skill and player misplays, not by all the “balance issues” people bring up on the forums which only really impact the upper skill tiers where misplays are rare.
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Why would I care who’s on console?
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@SomberNokk said:
This is gonna be the main problem VHS faces, matches in that game are too ######### long. Like 45 minutes long. I prefer short matches though not in the sense that all gens get done in 3 minutes.
45 minutes? 😮 The more I hear about VHS the less interested I am.
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No, I think 10 minutes or less is about the right length for this kind of game.
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I voted Yes just for the jump scare on the menu. Watching a montage of streamers freaking out when she does that was hilarious. 😄
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@Milo said:
My only problem with this, is that, it's somethin very specific a killer has no idea if they will use. Imo they should have another effect if they get added.
Some of them are more conditional than others. For instance, the perk that lets a killer interact with a totem to block it works if they have any Hexes regardless of the survivor loadouts.
And generally speaking a perk that works better against certain survivor load outs is fine. Exhaustion is a good effect if they have a bunch of exhaustion perks but does nothing if they don’t. Perks that give you Exposed hits or that slow healing only work if the survivors bother to heal. Just because a perk doesn’t work in every possible situation or match doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a bad perk.
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@Marcavecunc said:
I posted a similar idea the other day
Another one I had , along some of the ideas you suggested was:
- - A perk that gives you a bonus if you're within the boon's range
- - A perk that reduces a boon's radius
(could be combined with the snuffing one, the more you snuff boons, the smaller they get, or something)
Another idea along these lines is a perk that isn’t a Hex but whose power is based on how many total totems are on the map. So for instance, a perk that slows gen progress X% per undestroyed totem on the map. Survivors then would have a choice, Boon a totem and get its effect but keep that totem up to power that killer perk, or destroy totems to weaken the killer perk.
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@ThePolice said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2814967#Comment_2814967
some ppl just have dim monitors and stuff, it wouldn’t do any harm to add it as NVIDIA filters are supported
I suppose if someone has a really old monitor or something? Hard to imagine anybody runs their monitor or TV at literally 100% brightness all the time but maybe that happens. 🤷♂️
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Scourge Hooks are great, no complaints at all about them from me! 🙂 They encourage you to take a little extra risk carrying someone a farther distance in exchange for a better benefit.
I general like Boons in principle as a killer. I think they add an interesting element to the game. Circle of Healing is probably still somewhat overpowered but the others aren’t. And even though I’m a killer main I like the idea of having little side objectives for me to think about like the Boons and breakable walls, it makes the game more fun for me keeping an eye out for those things.
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@ThePolice said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2814956#Comment_2814956
True, however it can only go as bright as the screens display allows, so it wont work for pc or switch
What are you talking about? I literally turn my Brightness up from 50% to 70% on my PC when I play and it helps. I don’t know why you think it doesn’t work.
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@ThePolice said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2814827#Comment_2814827
It doesn’t work like that, especially on consoles like switch or on pc, gamma different to brightness
I know the difference between gamma and brightness, but turning up the brightness does help make the darker spots easier to see because they get brighter along with everything else.
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I think it should be 90% instead of 75%. That way it’s still better than level 2 but also would allow Stridor to work.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
Probably when Realm Beyond is finished. Or for Anniversary. We're basically guaranteed one then.
But if the maps we get are Midwich, RPD, and Eyerie I don't want em anymore.
I like Midwich, and I actually do ok on Eyrie as a killer. (I even got a 12 hook 4 kill with Jump Scare Meyers on it last week. 😄) RPD is confusing.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2814856#Comment_2814856
...Is that how it works? I don't think it really works like that, I think the averaging only kicks in when you first start playing a killer.
I also don't think that is what OP is asking...? But I'll definitely let them chime in to clarify before I go any further.
Yeah, it’s not entirely clear whether the system has a literally independent MMR for every killer or if you have a base MMR as a killer player and a modifier for each individual killer that gets added to it. Unfortunately the devs don’t go into much detail on it typically so … 🤷♂️
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@jesterkind said:
Well, the reason you don't start from scratch with every new killer is because having a high MMR on one killer means you know how to play the game.
Sure, you won't know how to use the new killer's specific power, but you understand general gamesense and can at least loop as an M1 killer for a bit while you learn. Starting you against genuinely new players would result in you stomping them even if you never use your power once, because you already know how the game works in general.
I think original poster is asking though is, for example, say I’m awesome with Doctor and I play Nurse periodically. I play Nurse a few times, my MMR is really high because I’ve played a lot of Doctor, and I get decimated when I play Nurse because my base MMR is so high. Losing with Nurse lowers her individual modifier and my base rating very slightly after two or three losses. I go and play Doctor again ten more times, win a bunch of matches, and now when I play Nurse again my MMR is even higher with her.
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Just for context, is this how good your friend is at these killers, or how good your friend is as a survivor at escaping them, or how good your friend thinks they are on average for everybody?
For example, he has Huntress as S Tier. Is that because your friend is personally an awesome Huntress, or is it that when they are a survivor going against a good Huntress they usually lose?
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2814836#Comment_2814836
Not talking about you personally but a lot of killers do.
Well there’s always people complaining about everything, it’s the internet after all. 🤷♂️
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2814819#Comment_2814819
They can nerf COH again if they want, but I don’t wanna hear killers complain how the survivor meta doesn’t change.
I’ve never complained one way or another about metas.
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Just turn up the brightness on your TV. Heck, I do that since I agree, parts of some maps are just too dark to play otherwise. (It’s a bit better since the reworks though. I remember the old version of The Game had parts of the basement that were so dark I literally couldn’t see the walls in front of me. It was terrible trying to move around and chase there without turning up the brightness a peg.)
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I’m getting tired of hearing that “Boons are broken” when the only actually overpowered Boon is Circle of Healing. The consensus on the other three is they’re fine (including so far the one on the PTB). It’s not the Boon system that’s a problem, it’s that one specific healing Boon. Which they did nerf, by the way, so they’re obviously still monitoring it and if the data shows it’s still too good it could get nerfed again.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2814429#Comment_2814429
If boons aren't as powerful or stronger then hexes the how come when boons came out hex builds pretty much fell off the map?
That has nothing to do with Boons in general but simply that they’re perks which entice survivors to go find and interact with totems. The more survivor perks there are which require survivors to find and use totems the more likely it is they’ll find hex totems. You could entirely replace Boons with Inner Strength style perks that give the team a boost when you cleanse a totem and it would still mean Hexes would be found because survivors are looking for totems for example.