dugman
dugman
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If I could I'd light a giant bonfire and throw in every last stalk of the Entity's corn.
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@NerfedFreddy said:
Killer-sided state of the game is unbearable for survivors. Something should be done about it as soon as possible. Wesker is too strong
I've had people quit mid-match three times this week in about 9 games. One of those times was Pinhead, one was Clown, and one was Legion. The Pinhead one the person quit before I even got into a chase, no idea why. The other two just got mad I downed them and DC'd.
It's almost all sore losing, no other explanation needed.
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I'm confused, why are you mad survivors are working on generators? That's literally the object of the game (do gens and leave).
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@Norhc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233256#Comment_3233256
There's no way the softcap is only 6%. Everyone and their mother is 1600+ on killer.
You're 100% wrong.
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@Peanits said:
The stats use actual MMR. The soft cap is only used for matchmaking purposes.
Out of curiosity is the 1600 soft cap roughly also where the 5% bracket lands right now? My extremely speculative guess was the soft cap is around 6% assuming a normal distribution with mean 1000 and SD 400 but I've always kind of wondered if that's close. 🙂
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232725#Comment_3232725
Top 5% is a meaningless stat, because the MMR cap is 1700. To put that into perspective, i play lots of chess. My rating is around 1600. Magnus Carlsen, the world champion, has a rating of 2856. But BHVR would cap him at 1700. The reality is though, if i played him 1000 games, i'd never win and would maybe get a draw in a handful of games. Because of that statistics are skewed no matter what. Because a pig with 10k hours and a proper rating of 2800 will get matched against 1700 MMR survivors and will likely 4k without even a sweat. Just as a nurse with 200 hours and 1700 rating will get matched against a 2800 rated SWF kill squad like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zw&t=1s
Because of that, the stats are basically useless unless they specifically break down the top players vs the same top players. Like, let's say they actually track MMR about 1700 but it just caps for matchmaking purposes. What are the stats of the players with 2k rating playing against players with the same (or relatively the same) rating? That would be much more meaningful and useful.
Keep in mind that the soft cap of 1600 is about where the 5% line would be assuming a normal distribution of ratings. (We estimated it in another thread as 1000 mean with 400 standard deviation, putting 1600 at about the top 6% or so.) And there is definitely a difference between that top 5% of players and the rest of the playerbase in terms of how they play the game. So it’s not an entirely meaningless distinction. A clear example from the charts, for instance, is how Nurse has a very low kill rate in the overall chart but is average to above average in the 5% chart. That’s almost certainly due to her learning curve.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232713#Comment_3232713
Can no one read...
Sadako was near the top for ALL MMRS, not the top mmrs..
There are a lot of people on the forums who consistently say Sadako is literally the worst killer in the game. I think that’s what the person you replied to is talking about being “surprising”, that Sadako is average to above average on the 5% MMR chart kind of throws a wrench on those tier lists that have her at the bottom.
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@bm33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232944#Comment_3232944
Yeah, I remember those stats from couple years ago. 4SWF was only something like 3-4% of matches. Wish they'd do them again especially since they broke them down between Steam, PS4, and Xbox. Would be great to see them now and with the additional platforms they've added to the player queue.
Yeah it would be interesting. On a side note I think the escape rate bonus for swf probably is about the same, back in the old stats I think the 4-person swf had a +12% or so bonus and earlier this year the devs mentioned at some point that the maximum bonus for swfs was about 15%.
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@bm33 said:
I do find it funny that the ones with high kill rates are the ones that people generally say are "strong v solo but weak against swf." Guess there's way more solo players than people think if those "strong v solo, weak v swf" killers have such high kill rates. 😂
There definitely are a lot of solo only matches, when devs have released numbers before on that it’s something like 50-60% of matches are all solo survivors, and 25% have only a 2-person swf which is basically not much different from a solo match.
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Well some of them agree with common consensus and a couple are a bit more surprising for some people. For instance, Trapper being one of the worst killers probably isn’t a shock, he’s almost always at the bottom of tier lists. Wesker being very high also isn’t surprising, at least to me, since he’s better than Demogorgon who is themselves a decent killer (in fact I’m more surprised how low Demo is than how high Wesker is.)
Sadako is the biggest surprise it seems like, a lot of people around here constantly trashtalk her as one of the worst killers in the game. Personally I’ve always put her as being close to Wraith or maybe a bit better. And in the percentages that’s true, they’re only separated by 1%, but it’s interesting see how close both of them are to a lot of other killers too.
Also notice that almost all the killers in the S and A tier have good mobility powers with Pinhead and Plague are the exceptions. But even Pinhead can exert mapwide pressure though chain hunts. Plague is unusual, I think it’s just she’s really deadly if someone is really good with her. 🤷♂️
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@JustWhimsical said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232922#Comment_3232922
Yeah, I corrected myself. Apologies; I misread that wrong. I have a reading problem and have to reread things several times.
I hear you, I do that myself!
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@tippy2k2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232894#Comment_3232894
It's hard to say for sure for really much of any of these numbers.
I've always been of the mind that these stats are fun to see but that's all they should ever be used for; fun.
Only the devs have the information and context to really determine what these numbers mean and what, if any, changes need to be made.
Sure, these charts aren’t the whole story, and the devs even say that in the article. They’re not totally meaningless though, it’s harder to argue for instance that “Sadako is the worst killer in the game” when she has an average to above average kill rate in the top 5% bracket.
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@JustWhimsical said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232627#Comment_3232627
I never anticipated the killer rates would look like that, who would have thought Onryo would have better kill rates than even Nurse its all so bizarre to me lol.
Actually Sadako and Nurse have the same kill rate in the 5% MMR bracket alongside some other killers. Nurse is only really low on the All Matches chart, presumably because of her learning curve.
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@SantaKlawz1 said:
Nurse won't have a high kill rate because most people just DC on her now.
Peanits confirmed above that matches with DCs are excluded from the data.
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@hastarkis said:
I'd like to see HOW MANY players are in 5% for each killer. Of course, Sadako CAN have such w/r for top 5%, but it should be like 10 golden Sadako players vs 1000 Blight players with the same result.
And I bet, all those 60% for Twins is from two (three max) dedicated mains. All others didn't make it to top 5% mmr lol
The game has literally thousands and thousands of matches a week even in the 5% bracket for every killer. None of these stats are from just a couple of people.
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@tippy2k2 said:
Someone on The Twitter made this point about Sadako and I'm curious if it's true.
Basically she's Opposite Nurse. Instead of a ton of people trying to play her and the noobs getting stomped brining her numbers down, only a handful of VERY good killers actually use Sadako so her numbers are far more inflated than you'd expect just because she doesn't have a bunch of noobs pulling her numbers down.
That wouldn’t explain her kill rate on the 5% MMR chart though, nobody being counted on that chart is a bad player.
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The only thing I don’t like about Deathslinger is that he’s the only ranged attacker whose turning speed slows way down while aiming. It just feels annoying, like turning through sludge. I wish they’d simply let him turn at a normal rate like Huntress.
Otherwise he’s basically on par with Huntress. He has a slight advantage in that he can shoot through small opening (even through holes in the walls of shack for instance) and can reload on the fly but has the disadvantage that he doesn’t always guarantee a down after a shot hits from across a dropped pallet (and occasionally even through a window at long range if the survivor manages to drag the chain through the wall at the start.)
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I can’t speak to add-ons but Meyers does have an above average pick rate at the moment on Nightlight as well. One factor might be Halloween Ends being out as well getting people in the mood to play him.
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I highly recommend looking up Michi’s YouTube channel and Hag guide, they’re an excellent Hag player with a ton of useful advice, including advice for more advanced Hag plays like chaining two traps together, using camera swings, bait traps that survivors know about so they go into ones they don’t, and so on.
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Two possible speculative reasons floating around about it
- The event seemed to be causing a lot of people to disconnect
- There's also a rumor hackers found a way to force other players to disconnect.
If either or both of those is true that would explain why the DC penalty is off right now. They've turned it off temporarily in the past for similar reasons (with similar unfortunate spikes in people disconnecting on a whim.)
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3231454#Comment_3231454
5% is too low. they should buff duration to 60 seconds and give it 10 meter activation range. I would what pick-rate of that perk would go? I recon 15-20%.
Actually 5% is above average. Don't forget there are 113 survivor perks and each survivor only carries 4 of them, so on average a given perk only gets used 3.5% of the time. Only the very, very most popular perks get used 15-20% of the time or more.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Update: No, it works probably well. I am so stupid and I played these perks with Pentimento so I bet the Undying covered the Pentimento stack instead of my main totem. So I missunderstand the situation lol. Sorry about that.
I tested a match where I didn't play Pentimento and the tokens were all fine when the Undying was destroyed.
Yeah, I was about to say, I use Undying all the time and never had an issue. And you're right, Undying can save one of your Pentimento totems.
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Reassurance is seeing play, it's at about 5% usage on Nightlight which puts it at about #20 on the most used perks list (top 18 percentile).
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@not_requested49 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230821#Comment_3230821
Theres a lot more perks/killers that need reworked than this. IMO i think its fine as it is, solely due to the bloodpoint bonus, it doesnt need a "buff" like calm spirit
I agree there are other perks that can use buffs, that's why I've been posting a whole series of threads about individual perks this month to talk about them individually including possibly this one.
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@Alcuin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230323#Comment_3230323
I didn't know the proposed change was 45 seconds; it doesn't sound like enough. Infectious Fright might activate after downing a Survivor so you go after the one that screams just to get a hit on them and, by the time you get back, the downed Survivor is already up. It should be a minute, at least.
Just for reference the current system is a survivor can get themselves one-tap away from being revived in 30 seconds. So right now, if you down a survivor and chase someone else, another survivor could take 10-15 seconds to head over during the chase and revive that downed person when the 30 seconds elapse (or sooner). So in terms of total survivor time taken away from the gens in that scenario it's basically a wash between the two systems.
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deleted, misread the comment
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I’m all for custom emotes for killers. They would make a nice addition to the Rift to replace the piles and piles of charms that probably never get used.
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@Dem34888 said:
P.S if numbers weren't changed, cause soft cap as i know is 1600
We estimated that only about 6% or so of players are over the 1600 soft cap a while back based on assuming it’s a normal distribution with a mean of about 1000 and standard deviation of 400. There’s really not that many people over the soft cap.
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@Dem34888 said:
That cause get mmr as killer is easy at low mmr, 4k = 20 * 4 = 80 mmr per game, 3 matches will give you 240 mmr, if person suicide on hook it means you're skilled, cause mmr counts only kills
When you're playing as survivor you can't get more than 20, also remember that hatch doesn't count as win / lose (60 mmr for 3 matches)
That’s incorrect, the amount your MMR goes up or down is relative to the opposing player rating and some other factors, it’s not a flat number.
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Cheaters having the amount of control they have over the match. Way too much of the game is dictated on the client side.
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In addition to possible crashes there were also some reports that hackers found a way to disconnect other players. That happened once before a long time ago and they turned the DC penalty off then too with a similar regrettable spike in disconnects, it sucked. Hopefully they patch whatever is wrong so they can turn the penalty back on.
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Hag's traps always intentionally swung the camera. At some point a year or two ago though it got bugged and the camera stopped being pulled by them. So if it's working now that's a bug fix. (If you ever look up Michi's old Hag guides from a few years ago they have entire sections talking about how to use the camera swing to your advantage.)
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Sorry, I'm calling BS on never seeing a disconnect. Just two days ago for instance I had someone disconnect 30 seconds into the match for literally no reason. I was playing Pyramid Head, I hadn't even chased anybody yet, and the person DC'd. I don't know if they didn't like the map or don't like Pyramid Head or what but it had zero to do with anything I did as a killer. Likewise I never facecamp and I haven't run a slowdown perk in probably three weeks but I still see people disconnect or ragequit on hook every few matches when they think they're losing.
90% of disconnects are just petty sore losing after a down. That's really all there is to it most of the time. And sometimes it's not even losing, it's just something ridiculous like "I don't want to play against a Pinhead" or whatever.
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That does sound fun. 🙂 That would be a better home base map for Clown in fact.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230819#Comment_3230819
its reliable because most of the survivor player-base is not top % looping. Red glow is something that high-level survivor use to remove mindgames from loops. Red glow never helps you as killer. it just helps the survivor loop you longer. Its just that most of the survivor do not know how to use red glow to their advantage. You can't mindgame good survivors that understand the depth in perception of red glow. that whole diagram i am showing at shack window has no mindgames vs strong loopers. You can never physically hit them. The best your getting is early dropped pallet. It has no mindgames. Anything that your trying in term of showing you red glow is not going to work against me or any strong looper.
beast of prey is suppose to be a perk that removes red glow. removing red glow really changes the mindgame potential for the killer. Its way harder to loop a killer that minimizes the information at loops and all of this gameplay is really subtle. this why its hard to know the difference between a strong looper and weak looper.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on how much losing the red stain helps in chases.
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@xni6_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230819#Comment_3230819
the only issue with that is if youre an m1 the survivor can stand in a perfect spot where they can clearly see you enter shack and also get the guaranteed fast vault, so no matter how many 7000iq quadruple double triple faking of the faking of the faking of the faking of the pretending to be faking the faking of faking the fake, you dont get a hit
But that's true for perfect loopers regardless of whether or not you have the red stain. You're not actually gaining anything in that scenario by being Undetectable.
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@GoshJosh said:
The difference with BP gains from every other perk that grants them is that they can still only max out the scoring categories (10k each now). BBQ was granting up to double bonus for every category above the traditional scoring limit. I don’t see any need to nerf the bonus BP gains from the remaining perks that provide bonus BP, since they don’t function this way.
What I find very interesting about Beast of Prey is that it belongs to Huntress, the first killer in a set of killers to have a lullaby. Now that the perk has been buffed/reworked to give undetectable, it is less appealing due to the remaining lullaby to give away your position to survivors. A decent buff to me then would be not changing Beast of Prey, but buffing undetectable to pause all lullabies across killers who have them.
Just to clarify, I don't want Beast of Prey "nerfed", I would prefer they replace the bloodpoint bonus with something else that's useful in the match, or just make it a better perk all around.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3230513#Comment_3230513
in fact there are times when having the red glow makes mindgames easier, not harder, such as intentionally showing a bit of your glow around a corner then backtracking the other way at a loop.
I completely disagree. red glow is another really.. really hide-level aspect for survivor looping. its like less 1% of the player-base knows how to utilize it properly so much so that I am really hesitated to explain it simply because I am afraid that survivor will start using this against the killer because once you understand how to use red glow. a lot of loops have very little mindgame for m1 killers. in fact I would go as far to say that red glow removes all mindgames from the chase.
I am really bad drawing so I am going to use a google image of shack and then try explain how you can use red glow to remove mindgames in loops. Perhaps one of the most famous loops in dbd is none other than shack. what red glow allows you to do as survivor is visualize the depth and perception of the killer position in a loop without physically requiring direct line of the killer. here's image to showcase what I mean by this.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YZ8NVP2QU47F/image.png
there are specific positions(vantage points) where survivor can stand at and if you look at the floor, you can see red glow shadow going deeper and deeper which tells you where the killer is standing across the wall. so if you ever wondered, how does this survivor always know when to vault the shack window across that doorway. Why is he is not falling for any of your mindgames? If you try to show your red glow to me and just back track along this wall, I am just looking at red glow on floor and see that the red glow is moving -> away from doorway so I am not going to vault window. Likewise, if you walk forward into doorway, I will already be in the position where i am vaulting the window as you walk through doorway. I am turning your mindgame into reaction in which i can perfectly do the correct play every single time.
There is plenty of these little places where you can deduce the killer's positioning the loop and through process of elimination, you can know where the killer is in a loop precisely which removes a lot of mindgames at loops. I think red glow is really high-level mechanic, so I do not expect many survivors or killer for that matter to understand it. more experienced killer manipulate and hide red glow in key positions to give the opportunity for the survivor to make a mistake at the loop. With this perk, if it was activate all the time, it would be continuous red glow mindgame through out entire loop. complicated mechanic to explain.
I actually only rarely lose the mindgame you're talking about at shack, it's pretty reliable. Also if someone does seem to be up on it you can double-fake it by showing the red glow, backing up slightly and doing a 180, then backing up into the doorway. A survivor who was watching for the mindgame fake will possibly think you went back to the window and still be standing in the middle of the shack when you back in, giving you a hit or pallet drop in that case.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/350855/beast-of-prey-discussion
the perk is not designed to be stealth perk. its designed to be a perk to remove your red light as killer. supposedly this makes it harder for survivors to track you in the loop. before the perk gave you undetectable, it used to only hide your red light.
Red light is another mechanic where experienced survivors can use to great degree with loop the killer while less experienced survivors do not understand how to use it to their advantage. Killer really should not have red glow mechanic because it grants the survivor wall-hacks against the killer and reduces mindgame potential at high-wall loops. Looping a killer with no red light would be a lot harder then what it currently is. red light is another topic altogether for another thread.
This is designed to be chase perk that enhances the killer chase but bloodlust 1 condition makes the perk not worth using. I think just removing bloodlust 1 condition would make the perk have more usage. it would be strong perk for detaching chases and the mindgame potential would be a lot greater especially if it is paired with the perk called I'm all ears.
Actually I'm not all that convinced that removing the red glow does much in a chase. In fact there are times when having the red glow makes mindgames easier, not harder, such as intentionally showing a bit of your glow around a corner then backtracking the other way at a loop. At best it's a very slight benefit. I don't even think a perk that made you literally Undetectable in all chases would be very good honestly.
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I'm not convinced the baseline 45 second self pick up will be an issue. Unbreakable itself might need to have its 100% bonus turned down but otherwise for most games that 45 seconds isn't going to change much one way or another.
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@Lastchild said:
BBQ was used for its 2 functions, that's what made the skill interesting.
If you want to remove the BP gain from Beast of Prey, I disagree.
BBQ is still one of the top used killer perks in the game despite not having a bloodpoint bonus (#2 used perk after Scourge Hook Pain Resonance on Nightlight with about 20% usage.)
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@Bot_Salvo88 said:
I heard it might be because of many people experiencing crashes during the event.
Also some reports of cheaters maybe being able to cause other players to disconnect.
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@Lost_Boy said:
What is your win criteria on both sides?
For a long time I felt that the 3k was a killer win, 2K 2E was a draw & 3+ escape was a survivor win. That was when I was mainly playing killer though & since playing survivor almost exclusively for the last few months I actually feel like I wouldn't class a 3k as a win anymore.
Like if I've played a match as a survivor & I've managed to evade the killer with zero hooks, done gens, rescued people, healed people & manage to outplay the killer on the endgame collapse and escape, I honestly feel like I've won the game way more than I do when I've got 3k as a killer.
Playing well and your team winning aren't the same thing though.
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I like the new system because its main effect is it cuts off that cleanup period where you have the last survivors downed but have to spend a minute walking around and carrying them to hooks. It’s just a nice quality of life change for the endgame.
And no, it is not a big buff for killers, I have yet to see a match where no survivor is standing and they somehow managed a comeback to win. (I’m not saying it’s impossible but it’s so rare as to be a negligible corner case.)
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All good numbers wise on the analysis but you left out a couple of aspects
- Yes medkits are useful, but the main question is really how do they compare to toolboxes? Is a squad with four toolboxes more or less likely to escape than a squad with four medkits for instance? If the answer is both medkits and tools are equally useful than that’s fine. On the other hand if one is clearly giving a statistically much bigger benefit than the other is escape rates than that would be a problem that might require one to be adjusted. So you can’t just compare survivors with no items to survivors with medkits, you have to compare survivors with medkits to survivors with tools.
- Also as a minor note you left out using medkits on other survivors. Yeah a lot of players use them strictly on themselves, but you save just as much time when you use them on someone else, healing a second survivor in only 8 seconds or whatever for instance. (In fact personally that’s how I typically use medkits I find when I play Plunderer Ace for instance. 🙂)
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@HugTheHag said:
I think a lot of people had issues with the game crashing from the new update, maybe it's because of that ?
There’s also some reports that maybe hackers found a way to disconnect other players. Last time that happened they turned DC penalties off until it was patched (which sucked because the DCs spiked as you might expect.)
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@Rulebreaker said:
When they lose, around 40% say gg and if we count "gg ez" then 50% total. All in all, i think im lucky in this regard.
I have never once see someone who lost a match say “gg ez”.
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I hardly ever play survivor, I only do it occasionally when I don’t happen to have a daily ritual for a killer.
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Dead Hard is still a really good perk but also weaker and less popular overall than the old version. Its usage is still about 1/2 to 2/3 what it was and using it for distance to reach a vault or pallet, which was the stronger effect of the old version, is basically gone. (The new version can work as kind of a tie breaker when used literally right as someone reaches a pallet and immediately does a pallet drop, so if the killer swings at that moment they either get blocked or get pallet stunned, but in terms of winning a race that’s about it.) And it doesn’t work against various things the old one did like Trapper traps, Deathslinger spears, Plague infection puke, Doctor shocks, leaping through a killer bodyblock, etc.
That said, I do think Dead Hard still has one problem, people using auto-Dead Hard cheats. These existed with the old version too but because lunging for distance was so popular compared to using it to dodge attacks the cheats didn’t come into play as often as they can now. But since the only purpose of the perk now is to block attacks the cheats may be cropping up a lot more visibly. One of the more frustrating parts about that is it kind of takes away from people who actually have great timing with the skill because there’s an asterisk when you see a quick block sometimes of wondering if it was really the player doing it or an auto trigger. Which is a shame, I’d love to see the devs figure out a way to patch that out but I’m not sure how it could be done without just totally revamping what the perk does in the first place. 🤷♂️
But cheaters aside, I don’t personally have a big issue with the new version Dead Hard. Yeah it’s popular but if I hit someone with it I’m effectively worst case inflicting a slowdown on them where they have to Mend for a bit rather than be on gens which is an ok consolation prize.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
here's a problem. what if you see your teammate running a troll perk. people would lobby dodge because they see their teammate running joke-level perks.
for example, if you see your teammate is running wake up+sole survivor+self-care+smash hit. would you play with that player who is not running the perceived perks that you believe they should run?
What happens if you see your teammate is running no mither? people would just lobby dodge you. If you give the option for the player hide a specific perk, then it is peaking interests that your running a perk that has perceived bad reputation.
For example, suppose the perk loadout is kindred, windows of opportunity, dead hard and 4th perk is blanked out. the 4th perk is self-care but your not showing self-care. people might stereotype the blank perk into a bad perk.
Which gets to what I said in my PS about why I don’t like visible lobbies in the first place. So a question is would the benefit solo survivors get outweigh maybe some more people lobby dodging?