dugman
dugman
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Yes, there’s another bug report thread about this from last week as well.
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@RonMan32 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3212342#Comment_3212342
If they move it I'll just post my findings from the live game by themselves, linking to the new home of this post.
Anyway yeah I agree. I think it could use some tweaking though. I think Twins is going to suffer and the opportunities the new auto-end might kill is a bummer.
Right, I could see them potentially doing a couple of tweaks specifically for Twins and maybe to adjust the bonuses on No Mither and Unbreakable. (Is it just me or does it feel like No Mither should be 75-100% speed bonus and Unbreakable should be 25-50%?)
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This actually does probably belong in the PTB forum since it’s all about comparing the PTB version of the game with the current version. But that’s up to the mods. 🤷♂️
Anyway, I agree that the new system isn’t really going to change most matches. There are some corner cases with the slugging changes where sometimes a survivor can get up that they might not otherwise and with dedicated sabotage Unbreakable swfs being a bit annoying but most games won’t be those. And the Last Standing Mori wins are all games that the survivors were definitely going to lose soon after nobody wS standing. I have yet to see a game on the PTB where the survivors could feasibly have come back from that. So all the new Last Standing does is speed up the cleanup part of the endgame where the killer hooks the last dying survivor or two or chases down a last straggler.
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@Star99er said:
This change is basically makes Twins unplayable. If someone has Unbreakable on to reduce the self pickup time to 22.5 seconds you basically can't get a pickup with Charlette if you down someone with Victor outside a 40 meter range of her, regardless if you were trying to slug or not.
I’m not disputing Charlotte’s window to get there is smaller, but It doesn’t take 20 seconds to switch to Charlotte and walk across the map even from end to end.
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I agree but I should note that I have yet to see a match on the PTB that the killer won because of the Last Standing Mori that they would not have won in the current system. It is extremely rare for survivors to win when none of them are standing so all this mori system is doing is clipping off the cleanup part of the endgame where the killer goes around hooking the downed survivors and maybe chasing a final straggler.
So yes, Nurse probably should have her Blink be a special attack and not a basic one but that’s true in the current game and not because of the Last Standing Mori. If Nurse wins by that Last Standing kill she would have won anyway.
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@fulltonon said:
Because he is playable unlike sadako, and little more skillful/fun than dredge.
I actually like playing Dredge more, but that’s just me. I’m more into the stealth and teleportation.
That said all the other comments are basically on point here. Wesker is still relatively new so there’s still novelty to playing him. He’s also fun to play even after the novelty wears off because he has an effective ability that is also viscerally satisfying to land. And to top it off he’s apparently a popular bad guy from a popular franchise (I’ve never played Resident Evil though so that doesn’t really factor into it for me.)
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@toxik_survivor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/348964/forced-penance-is-underrated
Forced peni- penance is just such a random perk. Have you every seen a perk build with forced penance in it? If so lmk
It works great with a backpack build (e.g. Agitation, Mad Grit, Forced Penance, Awakened Awareness) because hits you make while carrying someone trigger it. 🙂
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The one thing I'll say is I think people don't destroy their own zombies often enough. Not only does destroying a zombie give you a bit of charge up, but to me more importantly it forces a zombie that's near you to respawn in a new location which more often than not will be a better spot for them. After all, if you are in an area, survivors probably have already left that area to try and work on gens farther away. Yes, sometimes survivors will hide when you show up and then continue doing whatever it was they were doing if you leave, but as a rule of thumb if you're pretty sure nobody is around then you're probably right that nobody is around and it's ok to force the zombie next to you to spawn somewhere else the survivors won't be expecting and that might be closer to them.
I'm not saying you should necessarily run all over the map seeking out zombies to destroy, I'm just saying if you're not chasing someone and a zombie is in easy reach, smack it in the head, get a boost and hopefully get the zombie back in action somewhere it might be more productive.
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Not that I think it will happen any time soon, but I'd love to see The Rift start including things like additional mori animations or even custom sound packs or killer emotes.
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Happened again just now, this daily mission isn't working.
Loadout
- Discordance, Hex: Third Seal, Hex: Undying, Fearmonger
- Add-ons - Tombstone Piece, J. Meyers Memorial
Leveled up to Evil 3 twice in the match and got no credit for it.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3211210#Comment_3211210
Oh, I definitely don't trust user-generated aggregation sites.
Just FYI the perk use stats on that site are from the opponents’ data, not the person uploading it. So it’s actually pretty good.
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If only it was…
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Any Beans Necessary
Autodial
Better than You
Bite the Mullet
Boon: Bark Theory
Guilt to Last
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@Edilibs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3210926#Comment_3210926
Wraith is good but Sadako is better, leagues better!
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3210934#Comment_3210934
Yes just yes she very much is!
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3210953#Comment_3210953
You've never ran into or seen a top Sadako like mines shes ridiculous!
I’ll take your word for it, I do agree she’s a bit underrated though.
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Well now I want to see a Dredge made entirely out of ugly sweaters. 😄
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Reporting them is the correct response. Other than that and blocking them afterwards that’s about all you can do.
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I like Sadako but I wouldn’t put her much above Wraith personally. 🤷♂️
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If you don’t like crossplay you can turn it off yourself, no need to turn it off for people who don’t mind it being on.
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@Omans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202239#Comment_3202239
Sabo plays and hook deadzones? What..? There are almost always at least 2 hooks in hooking distance. Boil over? Lol.
A couple areas will need to be looked at/altered, but all the doom and gloom is really unwarranted.
To be fair, a dedicated full four person Unbreakable saboteur squad with hook spreader offerings can just run to a corner to die and destroy one hook near it to be unhookable, i was watch OhTofu do this with a squad last night and they never got hooked more than once or twice.
That said, it’s not a winning strategy, they still almost always lost two survivors to bleeding out, so it’s more of just an annoyingly long and drawn out corner case scenario than something that will happen in the great majority of games. It’s similar to how currently you might have a full swf decide to all run Boil Over and go to a map with a big building to die on the second floor and be very hard to hook, or a swf that just ducks in and out of locker pairs over and over so the killer can’t pull them out without being blinded, etc. None of it is actually all that common in the game or a winning tactic, it’s just annoying to play against on the rare occasion it does happen.
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There’s some correlation between Prestige and skill but like a lot of people said it’s not as strong as some people think. I certainly wouldn’t use it for matchmaking for instance.
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I think the opposite, I think solo players should have a slight buff and swf players stay where they are.
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I actually have decent result using his crouch speed add-on when sneaking around. The lower profile you get from crouching definitely makes you harder to see. It’s also why I do pretty well with Pig, I likewise use her Crouch speed add-on since her stealth while crouched is excellent.
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Honestly I’d just as soon see map offerings be removed altogether, they cause way more problems than whatever tiny benefit they have.
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@randonly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3210435#Comment_3210435
besides he is the best huntress in the game, he gained a huge amount of bp while the others were left with less than 5k in the match (which does not currently happen if you slug every 4 in start of match and waiting bleedout, everyone loses, even the killer in terms of bp). In addition he explained exactly all the perks that could have saved the team or made them gain more time or even including providing a scape for the hatch (that doesn't count for mmr).
about MMR, even if I'm wrong (even because I've seen the devs explicitly say that only kill per hook counts), it doesn't cancel anything what i said or coonut said about last stand (idk why you insist on it, since no one really knows how this hidden system works, only through leakers). Speed runs will be the new meta with mori offerings.
I seem to recall the devs saying that things other than hooks count toward MMR, but if you can find the quote you're thinking of feel free to post the link to it, I'm happy to be proven wrong. (And no, the devs have talked now and then about MMR, I'm not going by leaks, especially since some of the leaks seem inaccurate.)
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@randonly said:
they should actually be removed completely to discourage "speed runs"to slug with the mechanics of the last stand, since probably the killer in addition to being rewarded with a lot of BP (slug now give a minimal bp on end of match), will also be rewarded for having a fast game and still increasing the MMR, something that doesn't currently occur (MMR now only increase through death in hookswell, this is happening exactly as predicted, coconut even made a video about it, rewarding the killer for playing in the most horrible way possible using moris, anyway, the update was never really intended to prevent slug or prevent take game hostage.
I watched Coconut's video and I'm actually not convinced by his argument that it's a problem. The games he did in that video he would have won regardless, he didn't actually gain anything from explicitly slugging other than the end result was a bit faster than normal. I don't think his arguments holds up.
And no, MMR does not "only increase through death on hooks", moris and bleedouts also increase MMR.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3210120#Comment_3210120
he is describing what constitutes as win in dbd. In other words, he is explaining how the MMR works in DBD. I do not know anything about the board game.
Honestly I would be really very happy if the devs at some point just buckled down and made the game actually declare which side wins or loses at the end. No silly pip system, no worrying about how many bloodpoints other players earned, just have a screen that says "You Win" or "You Lose" at the end. Heck, if they want ties, "You Draw" is good too, as long as it's really obvious who won and who lost and why.
they did show whether you won or loss. its just people got discouraged to play if the game kept telling them they're losing so we hide it. This is what victory cube looked like. it show cases how many survivors you killed and how much your rank progressed. Very similar to what we have now as MMR. Its just that MMR is hidden. I was trying explain this in my previous post. This is what DBD looked like in 2017. Similar what @Gandor is complaining about, casual player often complained about camping, tunneling and... well slugging. nothing really changes so it seems.
Again, you keep saying he's describing MMR as winning but he isn't. That's just your preconception of what MMR is supposed to be.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209954#Comment_3209954
i think killer should be like blight where their base-kit is strong vs weaker players but end up being balanced vs high-level players. Blight for low-level plays is overpowered because nobody understand how to loop 115% m/s killers, so looping 230 m/s is out of the question. Alchemist ring vs low-level is a power with 0 cooldown which is why it gets complaints. Blight vs middle-level is very strong. The killer is favoured to win. Blight vs high-level is challenging match for the killer, but it is not impossible to win. The survivors also have opportunity to win.
Create something like killer's version of hyperfocus (very hard to pull off, but gives you best reward if you do)
Nurse? Performs terribly at low-level, Does ok at middle-level and gives greatest reward for mastery. in term of perks? Hex:Ruin and Pain res. Gives highest amount of regression for hooking a survivor automatically and pressuring the map with passive regression.
Nerf killer's noob tactics and buff killer's mechanically/tactically hard things.
They are not noob-tactics. They're simply how the killer win conditions are right now. you can disagree for how the killer wins but this is just how the game is at current moment. You can give killer incentives to hook other survivors but the killer will use the perks to hook survivors to reap rewards of the perks and do those strategies simultaneously. So unless you change how the killer wins, nothing is changing on that front.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3209984#Comment_3209984
Yes all of your 3 point is true. You can have 3 weak players, kill all 3, but if high mmr killer escapes, the survivor will gain a lot of MMR. This is very very unlikely because the matchmaking system is design to find player close to your skill-level so this almost never happens for 1-1600, but it can happen for higher-level due to smaller player pool.
MMR doesn't change when someone uses a hatch or disconnects. So at best a hatch is apparently a draw, even though earlier you kept insisting that DbD doesn't have draws.
They never explain what happens on disconnects. Likely a null for all players or a loss. Patrick does not go in detail in the video on that.
Killers go up or down for every survivor that is killed or escaped in the match. The devs clearly are not saying "The killer wins twice and loses twice if two survivors escape", that's preposterous.
This is exactly what patrick is saying in the video. Win is the survivor escaping through exit gate. A kill through 3 hooks, bleed out for 4 minutes or mori is consider a win for the killer. That's it, there is nothing more. I have been trying explain that in my previous posts. this is where some people criticized Patrick with hockey = DBD because he made a system that works like battle royal mmr in a team-based game for survivor. Its not too far off though. Just needs few refinements. Survivors should not get punishing if they're last survivor to be chased in the game and their team leaves them behind. Killers should lose when they fail to kill the majority of the team so it will be harder for killer to rank then in current system. Overall there is no draws in killer system, but there are draws in the survivor system in my proposed system to refine their battle royal system into team-based MMR system.
To me, it just looks common sense. Hopefully when their team MMR happens, we'll have less meaningless kill-rates and more meaningful win-rates.
No, what Patrick is saying in that video is that kills and escape are a good proxy for matching people up to have close matches. Which is totally true. The hockey analogy he gave was actually accurate and a bunch of people just misread it or took it out of context. All he was saying is that, with hockey for instance, teams that score a lot of goals tend to be better teams so goals is a good proxy for team skill. Same with MMR in DbD. On average killers that get a lot of kills tend to be high skill players, so kills are a good proxy for skill because it's an easily measured objective parameter with a correlation for what you're trying to match again for a matchmaking algorithm.
And mind you, I'm not critiquing the system you are proposing for wins or losses as good or bad here. I'm just saying DbD not making the game have a crystal clear win/loss objective for both the killer and the survivors as a group is a design flaw that causes a bit of trouble for them. It's why the official boardgame for instance went the other direction and made it so the killer or the survivors have a clear win/loss condition. (The boardgame also got rid of mid-game player elimination which is another problem in DbD, but that's another story.)
Honestly I would be really very happy if the devs at some point just buckled down and made the game actually declare which side wins or loses at the end. No silly pip system, no worrying about how many bloodpoints other players earned, just have a screen that says "You Win" or "You Lose" at the end. Heck, if they want ties, "You Draw" is good too, as long as it's really obvious who won and who lost and why.
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I'd love to see multiple moris possible for the killers. I have a feeling though the reason they don't do it is probably that animations are kind of time intensive.
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Not at all. Emblems are terrible for matchmaking, MMR is actually a lot better. There was even some good evidence of this when they were doing MMR testing earlier this year and they switched on Grades as the matchmaking criteria and matches were noticeably worse than when they used MMR.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208979#Comment_3208979
it is winning and losing the match. in every game, whenever your MMR raises, it is considered winning and when your MMR drops, its considered losing.
If it were then not only would all the survivors win or lose completely separately but also the killer would have no way of actually knowing if they won or lost the match in the end because their MMR is hidden
that is exactly how it works right now. Survivors win and lose completely separately. All 3 of your teammates can die right now but you can still win by escaping through exit gate. This is what patrick's explanation was talking about. Conversely, you can have 3 of your teammate escape who all win, but you can be left on the hook because you got chased last in the end and your teammate can leave you so you will lose MMR. MMR is hidden. it is indeed true that you have no way of knowing if you lost the match or won the match. Its because your not suppose to care about whether you win or lose since entire purpose of MMR is for matchmaking purposes.
Before the emblem system, there used to be something called the victory cube and it worked similarly to how you see MMR currently. They do not show MMR to prevent belittling other players for being lower mmr and to prevent belittlement of the matchmaking system e.g showing screenshot of rank 1 killer vs 4 purple rank survivors in old emblem system.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208924#Comment_3208924
opening exit gate should be rare. 3 survivors escaping would require the survivor to open exit gate almost every game for 50% win-rate. that is how it is for SWF and higher MMR. you will be winning like 70% of the matches with that idea as survivor. Its still somewhat like that especially for high-level SWF. It occurs like that for solo vs most of the killer because of how weak a lot of killers truly are when the survivor is competent at the game. Unfortunately, BVHR balances around incompetent survivors because that is the majority.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208967#Comment_3208967
i agree with this post. I think killer can dominate low players without a killer power and just normal 115% m/s. At middle-level the killer requires a power but the survivor lacks the fine intricacies of the power so the balance of power does not matter too much. At higher-level, the intricacies of the killer power matter a lot and the killer relies a lot more on the power to be effective because how much better the looping vs 115% is and how much more generator efficient the survivors are at the game. there's less time to chase and it is harder to chase making it hard for most of the cast to perform. huge struggle to play weaker killers.
I just think that generator efficiency is not as optimized for soloq because soloq lacks the coordination in doing healing and generators in efficient time manner despite the looping being fairly similar. As a result, I think that most of the truly high MMR struggles for killer when the killer faces a strong team is SWF. This is why I think that when killer become stronger, they first become stronger to consistent beat soloq and only then have lesser chances to beat strong swf's.
This is all just my opinion in regards to killers.
No, going up in MMR is not "literally winning the match". The devs have never said that and wouldn't ever say that because that's not the purpose of MMR in this game. What you're saying makes no sense for a variety of reasons.
- Killers go up or down for every survivor that is killed or escaped in the match. The devs clearly are not saying "The killer wins twice and loses twice if two survivors escape", that's preposterous.
- MMR doesn't change when someone uses a hatch or disconnects. So at best a hatch is apparently a draw, even though earlier you kept insisting that DbD doesn't have draws.
- Even if you believe that the killer wins the match if their net MMR goes up after the match is over and all the calculations are done, it's pointless because MMR is totally hidden so that would mean the killer would have no idea if they actually won or lost a match. They could even hypothetically kill 3 weak players and a single weak player escapes and the killer's MMR might go down simply because MMR goes down a lot more when escaping opponents have lower MMR than yourself than it goes up when you kill lower MMR opponents.
So again, you're trying to claim simultaneously that MMR is how the devs "define winning or losing a match", but also trying to claim that for some reason the devs don't actually want to explicitly say that anywhere in any dev chat or blog, that they're totally ok with players not actually being told if they won or lost a match when the game could easily report it, and that killers can simultaneously win and lose the same match because every single kill or escape is its own win and loss.
Sorry, but this is all nonsense. Just because MMR is good for matchmaking doesn't mean it's at all intended as the definitive way to declare one side of the other the winner. MMR is no more a definitely declaration of a winner than bloodpoints or pips or grades are, the devs literally have no official position on who wins or loses a match, period. Which, as I mentioned earlier, is I think a core flaw in the game design.
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They never said they’re never doing balance passes on characters. They simply tabled them to make room for everything else they were working on this year.
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Also the tome challenges allowing you to have survivor and killer challenges selected simultaneously.
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I say this because I think most of the community agrees that Basekit Unbreakable and the Finishing Moris portion of the update is garbage and isn't even worth testing, let alone be given a chance to enter the game
I don’t think that, you don’t speak for me at least.
The whole point of having that on the PTB is to test it and see if the new mori and slug system is actually broken somehow or if it’s fine and needs tweaks or what. Personally I think a lot of people are overblowing the change frankly but we’ll see how it goes.
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The game needs 4 survivors for every killer to be perfectly balanced in the queues so I would definitely not be surprised if most of the time the incentive is for survivors to play. For example if half the playerbase queues up for survivor and half killer it needs 60% of the survivors to switch sides to be balanced.
And even then, I’ve occasionally seen a killer incentive briefly recently. I think the only reason it was stuck on 100% survivor the whole time in prior weeks is because tons of people were trying Wesker out, now a bunch of those people are back to their normal play routines of maybe killer or maybe survivor.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208616#Comment_3208616
in the killer current system, the killer wins twice and loses twice. the survivors that died lost mmr and the survivor that escaped through exit gate gained MMR.
in the system i am describing, the killer loses twice. He does not gain any MMR. He only loses MMR. The survivors that escaped through exit gate still win MMR, but the survivors that were left behind do not lose any MMR. they don't gain any because they died but they do not lose anything. I would say survivor won as group but they did not dominate the killer. they just met the bare requirements to not lose.
MMR going up and down isn’t the devs officially saying whether the killer “won a match” or the survivors as a group “lost the match”.
If you gain MMR in games. that counts as winning the match. If you lose MMR in games, it counts as losing the match. In some sense, I am describing draws but only for the survivor. the survivor should not be required to get all 4 people out in every single trial. they just need get 2 or more people out. 2 people escaping means that the killer failed to kill the majority of the team. The difference between 2 survivors escaping, 3 survivors escaping and 4 survivors escaping just reflects how much the survivor team dominated the killer. for killer, 3 and 4 kills is nearly the same thing in dbd. it only describes how much the killer dominated the match. that is why kill-rate is somewhat misleading since killer can have like many games in a 2k, but only single game as 4k.
For example, if you have 4 games that are 2k's and 1 game that is 4k. the killer's win-rate is 1/5, 20% but the killer's kill-rate is 60%. this is why 47% escape and 53% kill-rate in previous patches was very low in my opinion. kill-rate means very little while win-rate means a lot.
No, going up and down in MMR isn’t an official “you win the match” definition. If it were then not only would all the survivors win or lose completely separately but also the killer would have no way of actually knowing if they won or lost the match in the end because their MMR is hidden. If I kill two players and two escape I have no idea if my final MMR went up or down because the amounts it went up or down for each kill and escape vary based on factors like the relative MMR of the opponent at the time and the order of the kill and how long the match was.
You’re trying to shoehorn the current MMR system into a definition of which side won the match when it’s not intended to be used that way.
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Well the new mori system should help with the endgame being a little faster when you’re ahead as the killer because the moment no survivor is standing you will immediately win.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208500#Comment_3208500
i am not making this up. it is what was explained in the new years anniversary stream. that is how they calculate your MMR currently. it's decent system for killer. for survivor, its unintentionally harder to gain MMR than its really suppose to be but they did say they will consider adding team-based mmr for survivor so that ranking for survivor is easier. Killer has much easier time currently keeping MMR than they're suppose to be.
if you looped the killer for 5 gens and died, you might not lose MMR in the future if your overall team performed well as result of your excellent chase gameplay. People can stop memeing Patrick with hockey after the survivor mmr is slightly more refined. Killers are going to lose more often, but at least they are improving killer ever so slightly, so silver lining on that front.
Edit: I went on youtube to find the footage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ7HT0QnUdY
you can watch this video for their explanation for what is win.
You’re confusing MMR going up and down based on individual performance with winning the match. If a killer kills two people and two people escape by your argument they won twice and lost twice because their MMR went up twice and down twice. Likewise if two survivors are killed and two escape did the survivors win as a group or lose as a group?
MMR going up and down isn’t the devs officially saying whether the killer “won a match” or the survivors as a group “lost the match”. It’s strictly a balancing mechanism to help make matches closer, that’s its only purpose. And the video you linked, which I’ve seen already, doesn’t say anything different.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208387#Comment_3208387
they did define by winning and losing in dbd. for killer, the killer wins if they kill a survivor by any means. the survivor wins if they escape through exit gate. the killer one is fine. the survivor one needs a bit of work because their system currently works like battle royal game instead of team-based game which survivor is team based game.
baseball does not have draws. they have something called extra innings. its similar to over-time in soccer or over-time in hockey. like with the other two sports, you can have 100 extra innings. games really do not have draw's. they are usually trying to avoid draws unless unavoidable like chess. I do not know much about board games besides classic monopoly. There is no reason for dbd to have draw's so I have no clue why anyone talks about that.
No, they didn't define the killer winning the match. By your first paragraph you're saying the devs said the killer wins twice if they killed two survivors which is silly.
And baseball games can end in draws in rain outs. In particular, in the MLB, if two teams are playing each other and tied, and this is at the end of the year and neither team is scheduled to play each other again that year, and the game has no effect on the playoffs structure, then if the game gets called due to a rain delay it can be ended as a tie with no rematch.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207916#Comment_3207916
a draw in games means is no conclusive result. In hockey , for example, if you have even score, like 1-1. in order to resolve inconclusive result, you have over-time until someone scores. Main issue with that is you can have an endless amount of over-times, so in order make the result faster, the teams conclude to do something called shoot out. Its faster to do shoot out then it is to go to endless over-times, however in finals, there is endless over-times.
The same logic is used in soccer. you play for 90 minutes, then you have over-time and if over-time does not produce a conclusive result, then you have shootouts.
draws do not really exist in games. they exist in chess because..... well there is no way progress the game in chess so stalemate exists but in dbd, one side can always progress the game and your objective as killer is to kill all survivors as killer or escape the killer as survivor.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3208019#Comment_3208019
someone dying equals survivor's loss is weird dev design in for survivor mmr system. somehow they concluded that everyone survivor is doing 1vs1vs1vs1vs1 as we are playing battle royal games. survivor is 4vs1 so their scoring system needs have some team element. in order to not encourage survivor to die, i think best way is to make it so that survivors draw when they die if 2 survivor get out and survivor gain MMR if they go outside exit gate.
4 escape = killer loses most mmr
1 kill, 3 escape = killer loses 3 values of mmr and 1 survivor loses no mmr(null)
2 kills, 2 escapes = killer loses 2 value of mmr, 2 survivors lose no mmr(null)
3 kills and 1 escape = killer wins 3 values of mmr, 1 survivor draws for escaping the random hatch or too far exit gates.
4 kills = the killer wins 4 values of mmr.
Its easier to gain MMR as survivor then killer but supposedly, the killer is the stronger role so they're favoured to win. Funny enough, most of killer powers in dbd are pretty... weak but it is what it is.
Generally i would assume kill-rate would be around 60/40 because killer can a lot of garbage kills like 1-2 in losing games and a lot of extra kills in end game, but I would guess that the overall win-rate would be around 50/50.
Draws do exist in real games. Baseball games can end in draws for example when they're rained out. Soccer matches can end in ties depending on the rules of the respective tournament. Many boardgames can end in ties. It's not nearly as uncommon you're claiming.
Also DbD unfortunately has no clearly defined victory conditions regardless, the devs never have said what constitutes a killer winning a game versus the survivors winning the game versus the game being too close to call. So when a bunch of players feel it ended in a tie after 2 kills that's just as valid an opinion as saying the person with the most bloodpoints wins the match or every survivor who escapes wins and every survivor who dies loses and the killer only wins if they got the most bloodpoints, or whatever other system people come up with.
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I think the slugging changes sound slightly survivor sided and probably outweigh the kill buff from the mori change. But I don’t think it sounds game breaking in either direction.
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@Steel_Eyed said:
The game would be better if all grabs were removed.
I definitely disagree, grabs add a lot to the game in terms of jump scares for survivors, at least when it comes to gen and totem grabs. Hook grabs do lead to silly standoffs though since the survivor sees the killer and knows they are waiting for a grab attempt.
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I probably would put the perks in more or less the same spots give or take. 🤷♂️ Just at a glance
- I'd probably move Unrelenting to 2 star from 1 star. It actually save quite a bit of distance on a miss, it's basically Save the Best for Last for misses. I think it's not valuable for Otz because he rarely misses attacks, but average players might miss one or two attacks against juking survivors a match and Unrelenting can mean the difference between following up on those for a hit and the survivor getting enough distance to reach a vault or pallet. I don't think it's better than 2 stars but I do think it's better than the other 1 star perks.
- I could maybe see Dying Light going to 2 stars in certain loadouts with certain killers. It pairs well with Dark Devotion, for instance, because with that combo you can hit-and-run against the Obsession and hook the others more quickly due to the Undetectability you get. It's still not a great perk even then though so I wouldn't go higher than 2 either way.
- I think Shadowborn is a solid 2. It helps with spotting things at long vision range and also helps get hits on point blank juking and 360'ing survivors. Otz hedged his bet by putting it in between 1 and 2 but I'd side with 2.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
i have no clue why people think of draws in video games. Most games heavily avoid draws as it gives inconclusive result. DBD is no different in that regard.
The concept of draws comes from chess. the concept of Stalemate. In chess, its refer to as draw by insufficient material. Both players cannot progress so they agree with draw. The other stalemate is the inability to move your king or other pieces. One player not being able to progress the game therefore game is concluded as draw. draws in video games come from one player being unable to progress the game.
dbd does not have have draws really. there is no stalemate in dbd. they used to have stalemate with hatch stand-offs but this was removed for obvious reasons. one side can always make progress towards their objective. I would say 0, 1k and 2k are loss for killer, the killer failed to kill the majority of the team while 3k and 4k are wins for killer. the killer successful killed the majority members of the team. The survivors are suppose to be at odds to escape, while killer is favoured to kill but their objective is harder. the cookie cutter asymmetric win-conditions.
Closest you get to draws in dbd is if survivor are hiding when two players are left, but I am not sure how common this is. Whisper is killer perk that helps counter this situation but whisper was not one of the perks in developer statistic to be highly popular so I assume these situations are not that common. People do not care about it/put up with longer drawn out games as normal gameplay if the survivors refuses to die. I think what would be good is having killer instinct when two people are left if the killer does not find anyone within 2 minutes but this is separate issue altogether.
I am not sure if 3 generator can be consider a stalemate situation if the survivor is unable to progress them but that is another issue where generator should be so close to each other where killer can make the game go on forever. its also why I am heavily skeptical on perks like overcharge/call of brine that allow killer to compete with survivor's progression of the game in certain instances.
win-rate is way better then kill-rate for general statistic. the 1-2k for killer is for tiebreakers... which are only relevant if you are making tournament-type competitive system which dbd does not really need because its not really competitive. its more casual and the game largely centers around casual-fun.
Your opinion on 2 kills not being a draw is just your personal view on what should of shouldn’t be considered basically a tie. The game itself and the devs don’t actually give any clear guidelines on what constitutes a win or a loss. And a lot of people think 2 kills is a tie.
And yes, DbD is VERY different in that it doesn’t have a clear win condition for killer and survivors, it’s one of the main design flaws of the game in my opinion. Not having a clearly spelled out win condition for both sides leads to some of the issues people complain about frequently, including things like this very thread.
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I just play the game and if they have fun great, if not oh well. 🤷♂️
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@scenicpickle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3207756#Comment_3207756
I like it, so its like ghostface but backwards
Exactly. It’s Ghost Face stalking in reverse. 🙂
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There’s definitely licensed characters that make way, WAY less sense than Wesker. I don’t think we should have a real estate scammer as a killer just to get a Scooby Doo chapter, or a chapter for The Scranton Strangler from The Office, etc.
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I want to see Medusa that inflicts negative conditions on survivors who have her in their field of view. So the longer you see the killer the worse the conditions get and you have to stop looking at them to get back to normal. I like it because not only is it a thematic killer but it also is a unique game mechanic that makes survivors actually anxious about watching a killer which would add quite a bit of tension for them.
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@K139K05 said:
Perhaps Corrective Action should give you an effect range around you that prevents generator explosions and the accumulated token loss (same as normal, still consumes tokens). Could be leader range or bigger and it should linger for 15 seconds. But even than it still won't be that useful (unless you're playing against impossible skillcheck doctor).
I guess the question is, hypothetically, if Corrective Action had no range limit and made all survivors ignore failed skill checks, would it be overpowered? If the answer to that question is No then you could literally do that instead.